418 réponses à ce sujet

[zigamortis]

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

 
They made a plaque for the memorial wall(unless they keep them all in a drawer), I pretty sure you make one of them after a bit of time being MIA(at least a week if you are cold hearted).  I can see the scene after "Eden planet", "Have we found Shep yet" "not yet" "call the engraver, the memorial wall is looking empty" "shouldn't we wait to make sure""No, we have to do it now before he gets alot of work".
The LI intrest can look up all they want , they are not a throian with a psychic connection and they could be in denial for all we knew.
See, this is what happens when we are told to use imagination.

The point here is understanding the meaning of the scenes. If Shepard wasn't meant to be found that scene wouldn't be there at all, period. The LI would put the name and fly off with the Normandy, and there would be no breath scene. Scenes are there for a reason. They mean something.

So all of the evedence for the indoctrination theory are their for a reason. SHEPARD IS INDOCTRINATED!!!

Indoctrination theorists are an excellent example of people who can't understand the narrative. Even if you could fabricate the theory with elements shown in the game, it's very clear that IT was not the intention. Just like here it's very clear that the intention is to show that Shepard will live and reunite with his LI.

Either bioware are great writers and everything they do is on purpose or the breath scene is grossly out of place in the story and shepard is really dead. Choose wisely

[nicocap24]

Dan Dark wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

When you write a script, you don't add a scene if it's completely pointless. You don't show Shepard breathing if you don't mean that he's gonna live.

People don't understand this.

It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does.

Or it's a red herring. Or they just screwed up.

I'd point to all of the foreshadowing about dark energy in ME2, but we actually do know why that never came back up - they changed writers and completely forgot about / decided to change/ remove that element of the story. ... Doesn't explain whatever happened with that signal Cerberus developed at their Sanctuary facility, though... you know, the one that could disrupt the Reapers control signals? You'd think something like that would've been a kinda big deal...

There's no such thing as a red herring in the END of a story.

[zigamortis]

Dan Dark wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

When you write a script, you don't add a scene if it's completely pointless. You don't show Shepard breathing if you don't mean that he's gonna live.

People don't understand this.

It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does.

Or it's a red herring. Or they just screwed up.

I'd point to all of the foreshadowing about dark energy in ME2, but we actually do know why that never came back up - they changed writers and completely forgot about / decided to change/ remove that element of the story. ... Doesn't explain whatever happened with that signal Cerberus developed at their Sanctuary facility, though... you know, the one that could disrupt the Reapers control signals? You'd think something like that would've been a kinda big deal...

The dark energy plot was the original main plot. you can look up the original ending and it explains it in full. Much better than the endings we got btw.

[nicocap24]

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

 
They made a plaque for the memorial wall(unless they keep them all in a drawer), I pretty sure you make one of them after a bit of time being MIA(at least a week if you are cold hearted).  I can see the scene after "Eden planet", "Have we found Shep yet" "not yet" "call the engraver, the memorial wall is looking empty" "shouldn't we wait to make sure""No, we have to do it now before he gets alot of work".
The LI intrest can look up all they want , they are not a throian with a psychic connection and they could be in denial for all we knew.
See, this is what happens when we are told to use imagination.

The point here is understanding the meaning of the scenes. If Shepard wasn't meant to be found that scene wouldn't be there at all, period. The LI would put the name and fly off with the Normandy, and there would be no breath scene. Scenes are there for a reason. They mean something.

So all of the evedence for the indoctrination theory are their for a reason. SHEPARD IS INDOCTRINATED!!!

Indoctrination theorists are an excellent example of people who can't understand the narrative. Even if you could fabricate the theory with elements shown in the game, it's very clear that IT was not the intention. Just like here it's very clear that the intention is to show that Shepard will live and reunite with his LI.

Either bioware are great writers and everything they do is on purpose or the breath scene is grossly out of place in the story and shepard is really dead. Choose wisely

Jesus Christ. Bioware don't need to be great writers to make the breath scene work. Scenes like that were done many times by many writers. And how, just how, could you possibly think that the breath scene is not on purpose?

[zigamortis]

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

 
They made a plaque for the memorial wall(unless they keep them all in a drawer), I pretty sure you make one of them after a bit of time being MIA(at least a week if you are cold hearted).  I can see the scene after "Eden planet", "Have we found Shep yet" "not yet" "call the engraver, the memorial wall is looking empty" "shouldn't we wait to make sure""No, we have to do it now before he gets alot of work".
The LI intrest can look up all they want , they are not a throian with a psychic connection and they could be in denial for all we knew.
See, this is what happens when we are told to use imagination.

The point here is understanding the meaning of the scenes. If Shepard wasn't meant to be found that scene wouldn't be there at all, period. The LI would put the name and fly off with the Normandy, and there would be no breath scene. Scenes are there for a reason. They mean something.

So all of the evedence for the indoctrination theory are their for a reason. SHEPARD IS INDOCTRINATED!!!

Indoctrination theorists are an excellent example of people who can't understand the narrative. Even if you could fabricate the theory with elements shown in the game, it's very clear that IT was not the intention. Just like here it's very clear that the intention is to show that Shepard will live and reunite with his LI.

Either bioware are great writers and everything they do is on purpose or the breath scene is grossly out of place in the story and shepard is really dead. Choose wisely

Jesus Christ. Bioware don't need to be great writers to make the breath scene work. Scenes like that were done many times by many writers. And how, just how, could you possibly think that the breath scene is not on purpose?

I do think its on purpose. but i also belive that it is either due to bad writing or the indoctrination theory.

[Templar Fox]

I would have preferred if it actually showed Shepard getting out of the rubble, but hey... with the way High EMS Destroy ended, it's FAR more preferrable than what was before.

I'd like to think Shepard builds a home on Rannoch with Tali in my canon.

[zigamortis]

nicocap24 wrote...

Dan Dark wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

When you write a script, you don't add a scene if it's completely pointless. You don't show Shepard breathing if you don't mean that he's gonna live.

People don't understand this.

It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does.

Or it's a red herring. Or they just screwed up.

I'd point to all of the foreshadowing about dark energy in ME2, but we actually do know why that never came back up - they changed writers and completely forgot about / decided to change/ remove that element of the story. ... Doesn't explain whatever happened with that signal Cerberus developed at their Sanctuary facility, though... you know, the one that could disrupt the Reapers control signals? You'd think something like that would've been a kinda big deal...

There's no such thing as a red herring in the END of a story.

And yet their is still no end.

[nicocap24]

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Dan Dark wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

When you write a script, you don't add a scene if it's completely pointless. You don't show Shepard breathing if you don't mean that he's gonna live.

People don't understand this.

It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does.

Or it's a red herring. Or they just screwed up.

I'd point to all of the foreshadowing about dark energy in ME2, but we actually do know why that never came back up - they changed writers and completely forgot about / decided to change/ remove that element of the story. ... Doesn't explain whatever happened with that signal Cerberus developed at their Sanctuary facility, though... you know, the one that could disrupt the Reapers control signals? You'd think something like that would've been a kinda big deal...

There's no such thing as a red herring in the END of a story.

And yet their is still no end.

There is an end and it's perfectly clear. You just refuse to see it because you have a grudge with Bioware.

[zigamortis]

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

[chuckles471]

nicocap24 wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

 
They made a plaque for the memorial wall(unless they keep them all in a drawer), I pretty sure you make one of them after a bit of time being MIA(at least a week if you are cold hearted).  I can see the scene after "Eden planet", "Have we found Shep yet" "not yet" "call the engraver, the memorial wall is looking empty" "shouldn't we wait to make sure""No, we have to do it now before he gets alot of work".
The LI intrest can look up all they want , they are not a throian with a psychic connection and they could be in denial for all we knew.
See, this is what happens when we are told to use imagination.

The point here is understanding the meaning of the scenes. If Shepard wasn't meant to be found that scene wouldn't be there at all, period. The LI would put the name and fly off with the Normandy, and there would be no breath scene. Scenes are there for a reason. They mean something.

Still doesn't  answer, they made a freakin plaque. I think that outweighs narrative technique.  Call me old fashioned but you wait a while to have a memorial for someone who is only MIA.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Because Bioware wanted you do it in your head.

Paper Cutter reunions wouldn't cut it for everyone. That's why.

Because this is a possibility for some Shepards:

An asari and her young daughter are walking down the streets of Manhattan and see a grey haired woman looking for credits in a trash can (because we know how we treat our war heroes here). It's about 20 years after the war. They are walking by and the older woman looks up and asks "Spare some credits for Commander Shepard?.... Liara?.... Liara T'soni? is that you?"

Liara: "Goddess, Shepard? What happened? I knew you were alive. What are you doing? Let's get you cleaned up."

Shepard: "Oh, I'm okay. Just a run of bad luck." quickly stashes bottle in trash.

Liara: "I saw that. More than just bad luck, Shepard." They take a taxi back to Liara's hotel

Shepard: "Keeps the nightmares away, Liara. They tell me the found me under rubble up on the Citadel. They didn't know who I was. Armor but somehow no dogtags. And I didn't know who I was, but after a few years my memory started to come back, but no way to prove anything. All I had was this. (shows locket of Liara). And I tried to remember who this was and I kept it 'cause I knew she was important and all then a few years ago I remembered, but I figured you'd moved on, and I don't have any money. And I just have these horrible memories about the war."

Liara: "You must have benefits or something."

Shepard: "I tried, but retinal scans a no match because of eye replacements. My personnel files are gone, and after a couple years I just gave up."

Liara: "We should contact Admiral Hackett. And we should be able to get you completely fixed up."

Shepard: "Hackett...Hackett... that name sounds familiar. I just can't quite place it."

Liara: "Then I'll help. I'll be your memory. I might even be able to restore it."

Shepard: "Thank you. I missed you so much." Hugs Liara.

Liara: "Shhhhhh. I never gave up hope. My contacts couldn't even find you. It's over now. And there's someone you need to meet. This is your daughter, Selena. Selena, this is your father, Shepard. The one who ended the Reaper War."

Selena: "Hi."

Liara: "Shepard, come home with me, with us. Please."

Shepard: "You're sure?"

Liara: "I'm sure. I'm living in my mother's old house on Thessia."

Shepard: "I'd like that."

Liara: "Good. I've got some stories to tell you, too."

Selena: "Mom, tell her the one about the jungle."

Liara: "Oh, Goddess, not that one."

Shepard: "What happened in the jungle?"

Liara: "You don't want to know."

Shepard: "You started this." <3

[Dan Dark]

nicocap24 wrote...

Dan Dark wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

When you write a script, you don't add a scene if it's completely pointless. You don't show Shepard breathing if you don't mean that he's gonna live.

People don't understand this.

It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does.

Or it's a red herring. Or they just screwed up.

I'd point to all of the foreshadowing about dark energy in ME2, but we actually do know why that never came back up - they changed writers and completely forgot about / decided to change/ remove that element of the story. ... Doesn't explain whatever happened with that signal Cerberus developed at their Sanctuary facility, though... you know, the one that could disrupt the Reapers control signals? You'd think something like that would've been a kinda big deal...

There's no such thing as a red herring in the END of a story.

For what it's worth... you took my comment completely out of context. So, since quoting the message it was a reply to wasn't obvious enough...
Prompt: "It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does."
Response: "Unless it's a red herring, or they made a mistake."

[nicocap24]

zigamortis wrote...

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

How is it not clear enough? The Normandy scene plus the breath scene make it absolutely clear that they will reunite. 

[nicocap24]

Dan Dark wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Dan Dark wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

When you write a script, you don't add a scene if it's completely pointless. You don't show Shepard breathing if you don't mean that he's gonna live.

People don't understand this.

It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does.

Or it's a red herring. Or they just screwed up.

I'd point to all of the foreshadowing about dark energy in ME2, but we actually do know why that never came back up - they changed writers and completely forgot about / decided to change/ remove that element of the story. ... Doesn't explain whatever happened with that signal Cerberus developed at their Sanctuary facility, though... you know, the one that could disrupt the Reapers control signals? You'd think something like that would've been a kinda big deal...

There's no such thing as a red herring in the END of a story.

For what it's worth... you took my comment completely out of context. So, since quoting the message it was a reply to wasn't obvious enough...
Prompt: "It means something if it's shown. It ALWAYS does."
Response: "Unless it's a red herring, or they made a mistake."

Sorry, since we wer talking about the breath scene I thought that's what you meant when you said it was a red herring.

[zigamortis]

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

How is it not clear enough? The Normandy scene plus the breath scene make it absolutely clear that they will reunite. 

If shepard actualy got up from the london rubble, maby. but since there is just a shuddering breath it doesnt mean that he or she will survive or make it back to his crew due to the imense injurys. So no it isnt clear and it is not obvious that he will ever see anyone again.

[Izhalezan]

If we could see Shepard simply being picked up, maybe a quick embrace with the LI, that'd be enough, make it absolutely clear that Shep lives and doesn't die alone under rubble.

[nicocap24]

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

How is it not clear enough? The Normandy scene plus the breath scene make it absolutely clear that they will reunite. 

If shepard actualy got up from the london rubble, maby. but since there is just a shuddering breath it doesnt mean that he or she will survive or make it back to his crew due to the imense injurys. So no it isnt clear and it is not obvious that he will ever see anyone again.

Again, that scene would not be there if it didn't mean that he's gonna survive. It is obvious.

[3DandBeyond]

OK, I will state this again. We are all unique people who like and need different things. I like vanilla ice cream, but hate strawberry. I love it in the Spring, but not so much the Winter or Summer.

I need to take an Aspirin to help my migraines. Others don't need it, but need insulin.

I like my pop with ice in it, some like it warm.

I like my games to be fun and love a good story. Others really need adrenaline pumping action.
I need closure on a good story and in a visual medium that means I need to see clearly a happy scene when the ending is intended to lead to happy.

I clearly totally understand that Shepard is intended to be alive, but I needed to see that MY Shepard saw that her friends also were alive and that her friends had found her. I needed that. Others do not need that. We are different. I am happy for them and understand they work differently from me. Please what I ask is that all of those who don't agree do the same.

[zigamortis]

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

How is it not clear enough? The Normandy scene plus the breath scene make it absolutely clear that they will reunite. 

If shepard actualy got up from the london rubble, maby. but since there is just a shuddering breath it doesnt mean that he or she will survive or make it back to his crew due to the imense injurys. So no it isnt clear and it is not obvious that he will ever see anyone again.

Again, that scene would not be there if it didn't mean that he's gonna survive. It is obvious.

No. what is obvious is that bioware or ea or both want to keep the game series going and they want a possible kickoff point to do so. all it is is a halfass cop out to making a real ending. face it, it isnt clear as to he survives or not.
And once again if you bring up the "the scene wouldnt be there" arguement one more time than your just confirming that you believe in the indocrination theory.

Modifié par zigamortis, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:49 .

[Iakus]

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

How is it not clear enough? The Normandy scene plus the breath scene make it absolutely clear that they will reunite. 

Obviously not to everyone.

But then, some people were "perfectly clear" on the original endings too.

Modifié par iakus, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:50 .

[nicocap24]

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

How is it not clear enough? The Normandy scene plus the breath scene make it absolutely clear that they will reunite. 

If shepard actualy got up from the london rubble, maby. but since there is just a shuddering breath it doesnt mean that he or she will survive or make it back to his crew due to the imense injurys. So no it isnt clear and it is not obvious that he will ever see anyone again.

Again, that scene would not be there if it didn't mean that he's gonna survive. It is obvious.

No. what is obvious is that bioware or ea or both want to keep the game series going and they want a possible kickoff point to do so. all it is is a halfass cop out to making a real ending. face it, it isnt clear as to he survives or not.
And once again if you bring up the "the scene wouldnt be there" arguement one more time than your just confirming that you believe in the indocrination theory.

If you look at the scenes that supposedly point to IT, it's clear that they don't intend to. It's also clear that this intends to show that Shepard will survive. And there's not gonna be any more games with Shepard, it's been said countless times.

[OchreJelly]

3DandBeyond wrote...

*Snip*

We are different. I am happy for them and understand they work differently from me. Please what I ask is that all of those who don't agree do the same.

And on top of that, I really don't think if they had shown a short reunion scene that anyone who likes the breath scene now would be clamoring for "No-Reunion-Scene DLC" or somesuch.

At the end of Shep's story there's no real reason to not add a little bit of content to give different types of players a bit of closure on the story.

Modifié par OchreJelly, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:55 .

[zigamortis]

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

@nicocap
I have no grudge with bioware. i am a little mad at them but no grudge. i do not trust them. but no grudge. And their is no end to destroy. they don't make it clear enough to be an end. they did not show Shepards intentions for after the game nor his crew mates. its a big. fat. smelly. cliffhanger.

How is it not clear enough? The Normandy scene plus the breath scene make it absolutely clear that they will reunite. 

If shepard actualy got up from the london rubble, maby. but since there is just a shuddering breath it doesnt mean that he or she will survive or make it back to his crew due to the imense injurys. So no it isnt clear and it is not obvious that he will ever see anyone again.

Again, that scene would not be there if it didn't mean that he's gonna survive. It is obvious.

No. what is obvious is that bioware or ea or both want to keep the game series going and they want a possible kickoff point to do so. all it is is a halfass cop out to making a real ending. face it, it isnt clear as to he survives or not.
And once again if you bring up the "the scene wouldnt be there" arguement one more time than your just confirming that you believe in the indocrination theory.

If you look at the scenes that supposedly point to IT, it's clear that they don't intend to. It's also clear that this intends to show that Shepard will survive. And there's not gonna be any more games with Shepard, it's been said countless times.

Just like they said that their would be 16 drasticaly different endings right? or that they wouldnt be adding another ending? Ohh and please explain to me where the IT evedence doesnt really point to it. i would really like to know how stupid and bullheaded you are to just say ohh no i see blue but im going to tell them orange because im to proud to admit im wrong.

[Dan Dark]

Izhalezan wrote...

If we could see Shepard simply being picked up, maybe a quick embrace with the LI, that'd be enough, make it absolutely clear that Shep lives and doesn't die alone under rubble.

Stealing my ideas, eh? You monster. XP

If the emote isn't obvious enough, I'm kidding. I'm actually glad I'm not the only one thinking this way - I feel something simple like this would've been perfect. It could be short, so it really wouldn't of required much work to create, but it'd still be effective - it would clearly show, rather than imply, Shepard survives and is back with his/her love and/or crew (throwing that "or" in mainly because it is possible, albeit rather difficult, to play through the entire series without ever having a LI). It then leaves their future completely open to interpretation, save for making it reasonably clear that, yes, Shepard does get a future.

Modifié par Dan Dark, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:56 .