418 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

nicocap24 wrote...


I agree it could have been better. I would have liked something like what you described. But my point is that the breath scene is clear, not that it's good. (I don't think its bad either, though).

The breath scene is bad.  It's not very clear, given folks have had to resort to devbeloper tweets fro answers  (if I hadn't played through the game already, and already known that was a "Shepard Lives" ending, I'd probably be a lot more confused)  

And this is why I hope, though it's likely a futile one, that they can stick a few extra seconds onto that scene as a rider in futre DLC.  It's highly unlikely, but I can dream, right?

Modifié par iakus, 01 juillet 2012 - 01:35 .

[sugarpouring]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

In a way they did, they said that the breath scene was indeed Shep living and that the crew ould eventually find him and your story would continue however you saw fit.

I'm ok with that, granted it's Garrus and Liara who find me. 

if shepard survives then that makes the ending even more unreal, how can an injured man, almost dead survive falling into earth, they would need to reconstrcut him again.

[zigamortis]

iakus wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...


I agree it could have been better. I would have liked something like what you described. But my point is that the breath scene is clear, not that it's good. (I don't think its bad either, though).

The breath scene is bad.  It's not very clear, given folks have had to resort to devbeloper tweets fro answers  (if I hadn't played through the game already, and already known that was a "Shepard Lives" ending, I'd probably be a lot more confused)  

And this is why I hope, though it's likely a futile one, that they can stick a few extra seconds onto that scene as a rider in futre DLC.  It's highly unlikely, but I can dream, right?

You shouldnt have to turn to twitter to find out what happens. Just another reason why bioware failed at mass effect 3

[zigamortis]

sugarpouring wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

In a way they did, they said that the breath scene was indeed Shep living and that the crew ould eventually find him and your story would continue however you saw fit.

I'm ok with that, granted it's Garrus and Liara who find me. 

if shepard survives then that makes the ending even more unreal, how can an injured man, almost dead survive falling into earth, they would need to reconstrcut him again.

Doubt they would be able to this time figuring how his armor is destroyed and no helmet and hes already gravly wounded.

[Theobuomai]

I am completely on board in saying that these last scenes here are purposeful in their intention and implication that Shep lives and that the LI is "on the prowl" to find and reunite with Shep. That seems to be Taboo's main point and I agree, and am quite glad Bioware gave us that implication.

BUT, how that reunion happens or plays out is the ambiguity that Bioware didn't answer and expects us to figure. I can understand why they did this, but as I discussed on page 9 of this thread, if Bioware is expecting us to provide our own closure, they are burdening the player with a task that they can only, at best, partially fulfill, leaving the player stuck in a loop of always almost providing closure to Shep and his LI, but never actually completing it. I love to browse DeviantArt to see people's imaginations for this end/reunion at work, but no matter what I or any fan creates to be "head-cannon", I'm also always painfully aware that because it's not given to me by the storyteller themself (Bioware), the state of Shep and his LI is always left in a state of "perhaps" and thus never actually fulfilled, never given, never real.

Some of you are much more comfortable in this state than others, for sure. Still, I would argue that true closure must be shared, it must be communal, and not only left to my own personal whim and world, and for that true communal nature to be achieved, it is the storyteller who has to close it, to end it, to give it and complete it. I'm under the persuasion that a story is not any cheaper or less meaningful just because it gives us the closure. If you saw LOTR: Return of the King, sure, we could have imagined Frodo's reunion with the characters at the end, but it didn't cheapen the story by any means just because it provided that scene for me (I actually thought it was a powerful moment, the victory and celebration).

Besides, (just a thought) has Shep's story ever really been my own? We might argue that by means of choices like Paragon or Renegade, but really Paragon Shep is Bioware's Paragon, Renegade their Renegade,etc. When I play as Paragon, I'm really asking Bioware, "Tell me the story of Female Paragon Shep," or "tell me the story of Shepard who romanced Miranda." When fans cried out that "my Shepard would have told the Star Child to shove it," it wasn't really their Shepard per se that was absent but Bioware's inconsistency of storytelling for that version of the character that was available previously. I'm thankful for the implication that Bioware gave us. But because it's their story to tell, ambiguous implication, even if fairly directional, isn't closure if that closure depends on me to give it.

I asked them to tell me Shep's story where he romances Miranda -- it's been beautiful, and now I just want them to finish telling it

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

We all have our own Shepard(s) and we all have ideas in our own heads about the details of their lives, their personalities and motivations that Bioware left out.  Why do you think there's so much Mass Effect fanfiction out there?  Shepard's fate is just one more thing to imagine, so why should we treat it differently?

So yes, the Breath scene works for me.

[Hudathan]

zigamortis wrote...

The dark energy plot was the original main plot. you can look up the original ending and it explains it in full. Much better than the endings we got btw.

[zigamortis]

Theobuomai wrote...

I am completely on board in saying that these last scenes here are purposeful in their intention and implication that Shep lives and that the LI is "on the prowl" to find and reunite with Shep. That seems to be Taboo's main point and I agree, and am quite glad Bioware gave us that implication.

BUT, how that reunion happens or plays out is the ambiguity that Bioware didn't answer and expects us to figure. I can understand why they did this, but as I discussed on page 9 of this thread, if Bioware is expecting us to provide our own closure, they are burdening the player with a task that they can only, at best, partially fulfill, leaving the player stuck in a loop of always almost providing closure to Shep and his LI, but never actually completing it. I love to browse DeviantArt to see people's imaginations for this end/reunion at work, but no matter what I or any fan creates to be "head-cannon", I'm also always painfully aware that because it's not given to me by the storyteller themself (Bioware), the state of Shep and his LI is always left in a state of "perhaps" and thus never actually fulfilled, never given, never real.

Some of you are much more comfortable in this state than others, for sure. Still, I would argue that true closure must be shared, it must be communal, and not only left to my own personal whim and world, and for that true communal nature to be achieved, it is the storyteller who has to close it, to end it, to give it and complete it. I'm under the persuasion that a story is not any cheaper or less meaningful just because it gives us the closure. If you saw LOTR: Return of the King, sure, we could have imagined Frodo's reunion with the characters at the end, but it didn't cheapen the story by any means just because it provided that scene for me (I actually thought it was a powerful moment, the victory and celebration).

Besides, (just a thought) has Shep's story ever really been my own? We might argue that by means of choices like Paragon or Renegade, but really Paragon Shep is Bioware's Paragon, Renegade their Renegade,etc. When I play as Paragon, I'm really asking Bioware, "Tell me the story of Female Paragon Shep," or "tell me the story of Shepard who romanced Miranda." When fans cried out that "my Shepard would have told the Star Child to shove it," it wasn't really their Shepard per se that was absent but Bioware's inconsistency of storytelling for that version of the character that was available previously. I'm thankful for the implication that Bioware gave us. But because it's their story to tell, ambiguous implication, even if fairly directional, isn't closure if that closure depends on me to give it.

I asked them to tell me Shep's story where he romances Miranda -- it's been beautiful, and now I just want them to finish telling it

I agree with just about everything you said. though i still want IT to be true. just to good to throw away.

[ShepnTali]

nicocap24 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I didn't need anything when I saw the scene myself. I understood it as I chose to.

Others do not. I really wish Bioware would comment on the issue.

I just don't see how anyone wouldn't understand it. It's obvious that it's implying that Shepard lives and gets reunited with his LI. I mean, we first see whoever his LI is hesitating to put his name in the wall of doom, and then we see him alive. You don't need to be a genius to figure it out.

To be more accurate, it implies a possibility, not a given. 

[3DandBeyond]

nicocap24 wrote...


If you look at the scenes that supposedly point to IT, it's clear that they don't intend to. It's also clear that this intends to show that Shepard will survive. And there's not gonna be any more games with Shepard, it's been said countless times.

Actually as far as indoctrination that's not true.  I've never been one to buy into IT, but...
The reason those scenes that point to it are in the game are the same reasons things are left in about Dark Energy-a story line that went nowhere.  Or Fish.

Anyway, IT was one thing considered as a story line and maybe even an ending.  Scenes that suggested it may have been left in because it was cheaper than redoing the scenes and removing the stuff.

As far as Shepard surviving, well it's only clear if your EMS is 3100.  If you only play ME3, which the devs said was a great entry game into the series or if you played on the PS3, it's harder to get that.  I first played ME 2 and 3 on the PS3 and did get more than that, but with GR at 50% that's TMS of 6200.  If I hadn't played MP, my EMS would have been 3700, so I could see someone might not get the Shepard lives scene.  I think the name goes on the wall.

However, if the name doesn't go on the wall (stupid scene in many ways, then), I think you have to deduce Shepard lives with that gasp.  But, it's ****** poor and I can see why some people don't really see that as Shepard LIVES!  It's clear but not satisfactory or satisfying.  And it indicates what might happen, not what will happen.

I also see it as leaving a door open to possibilities, but they've rejected that notion.  However, credibility must be earned when it's been thoroughly dashed as far as even this one issue is concerned.

For some, in order to fully wrap their head around the notion that Shepard lives, they needed that extra push.  As it is, it's a badly burned and bloody torso in rubble.  No face, no appendages.  A torso.

Never would have thought I'd have any game end like this one, with 4 such endings.

One ending-godhood of the hero who never wanted it, where the bad guys with people goo inside them become the galaxy police and fixit men.
One of molestation or the forced insertion of something within trillions of people's bodies without their consent.
One that seems to state FU to players who reject the awesome endings written.  Instant death of hero and trillions of people in the galaxy.
One that seems to be another FU to anyone that wanted a happy ending FOR A GAME.  Hero of over 100 hours of play, 5 years of fandom, many years of in game sacrifice, player's stand in for the game, is left a torso, charred and bloody in a pile of rubble gasping once for air.

Never saw any of this coming.  Not my ideal ending.  Never hope to see such abominable ideas for endings ever again.  Give me big explosions any day over this.  Cheesy, yes.  This, no.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:22 .

[goodventure]

*reads OP*

*skips rest of posts*

THIS, people! Hello! Don't you watch movies?

[SpawnedX]

Theobuomai wrote...

I am completely on board in saying that these last scenes here are purposeful in their intention and implication that Shep lives and that the LI is "on the prowl" to find and reunite with Shep. That seems to be Taboo's main point and I agree, and am quite glad Bioware gave us that implication.

BUT, how that reunion happens or plays out is the ambiguity that Bioware didn't answer and expects us to figure. I can understand why they did this, but as I discussed on page 9 of this thread, if Bioware is expecting us to provide our own closure, they are burdening the player with a task that they can only, at best, partially fulfill, leaving the player stuck in a loop of always almost providing closure to Shep and his LI, but never actually completing it. I love to browse DeviantArt to see people's imaginations for this end/reunion at work, but no matter what I or any fan creates to be "head-cannon", I'm also always painfully aware that because it's not given to me by the storyteller themself (Bioware), the state of Shep and his LI is always left in a state of "perhaps" and thus never actually fulfilled, never given, never real.

Some of you are much more comfortable in this state than others, for sure. Still, I would argue that true closure must be shared, it must be communal, and not only left to my own personal whim and world, and for that true communal nature to be achieved, it is the storyteller who has to close it, to end it, to give it and complete it. I'm under the persuasion that a story is not any cheaper or less meaningful just because it gives us the closure. If you saw LOTR: Return of the King, sure, we could have imagined Frodo's reunion with the characters at the end, but it didn't cheapen the story by any means just because it provided that scene for me (I actually thought it was a powerful moment, the victory and celebration).

Besides, (just a thought) has Shep's story ever really been my own? We might argue that by means of choices like Paragon or Renegade, but really Paragon Shep is Bioware's Paragon, Renegade their Renegade,etc. When I play as Paragon, I'm really asking Bioware, "Tell me the story of Female Paragon Shep," or "tell me the story of Shepard who romanced Miranda." When fans cried out that "my Shepard would have told the Star Child to shove it," it wasn't really their Shepard per se that was absent but Bioware's inconsistency of storytelling for that version of the character that was available previously. I'm thankful for the implication that Bioware gave us. But because it's their story to tell, ambiguous implication, even if fairly directional, isn't closure if that closure depends on me to give it.

I asked them to tell me Shep's story where he romances Miranda -- it's been beautiful, and now I just want them to finish telling it

Thank you.

I bought a game to have a story told to me, not for me to tell myself a story. If I wanted to do this, a pad and a pen would have cost me far less.

Fanfiction, my imagination, it's not the same thing as seeing it cannonized.

If this truly is the end of the trilogy and Shepard's story, than why would this be so horrible to include? Instead you got me emotionally attached and then trashed my emotions. Why would I even consider giving you another chance to build me up and let me fall, BioWare?

[3DandBeyond]

goodventure wrote...

*reads OP*

*skips rest of posts*

THIS, people! Hello! Don't you watch movies?

Perhaps you really should read some of the posts before you make snap judgements.  Why make people repeat themselves?

[Arturia Pendragon]

It's a shame so many people spent $60+ on the final part of an audio/visual storytelling experience only to have the writers tell you to use your imagination for closure.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:49 .

[3DandBeyond]

SpawnedX wrote...

Theobuomai wrote...

I am completely on board in saying that these last scenes here are purposeful in their intention and implication that Shep lives and that the LI is "on the prowl" to find and reunite with Shep. That seems to be Taboo's main point and I agree, and am quite glad Bioware gave us that implication.

BUT, how that reunion happens or plays out is the ambiguity that Bioware didn't answer and expects us to figure. I can understand why they did this, but as I discussed on page 9 of this thread, if Bioware is expecting us to provide our own closure, they are burdening the player with a task that they can only, at best, partially fulfill, leaving the player stuck in a loop of always almost providing closure to Shep and his LI, but never actually completing it. I love to browse DeviantArt to see people's imaginations for this end/reunion at work, but no matter what I or any fan creates to be "head-cannon", I'm also always painfully aware that because it's not given to me by the storyteller themself (Bioware), the state of Shep and his LI is always left in a state of "perhaps" and thus never actually fulfilled, never given, never real.

Some of you are much more comfortable in this state than others, for sure. Still, I would argue that true closure must be shared, it must be communal, and not only left to my own personal whim and world, and for that true communal nature to be achieved, it is the storyteller who has to close it, to end it, to give it and complete it. I'm under the persuasion that a story is not any cheaper or less meaningful just because it gives us the closure. If you saw LOTR: Return of the King, sure, we could have imagined Frodo's reunion with the characters at the end, but it didn't cheapen the story by any means just because it provided that scene for me (I actually thought it was a powerful moment, the victory and celebration).

Besides, (just a thought) has Shep's story ever really been my own? We might argue that by means of choices like Paragon or Renegade, but really Paragon Shep is Bioware's Paragon, Renegade their Renegade,etc. When I play as Paragon, I'm really asking Bioware, "Tell me the story of Female Paragon Shep," or "tell me the story of Shepard who romanced Miranda." When fans cried out that "my Shepard would have told the Star Child to shove it," it wasn't really their Shepard per se that was absent but Bioware's inconsistency of storytelling for that version of the character that was available previously. I'm thankful for the implication that Bioware gave us. But because it's their story to tell, ambiguous implication, even if fairly directional, isn't closure if that closure depends on me to give it.

I asked them to tell me Shep's story where he romances Miranda -- it's been beautiful, and now I just want them to finish telling it

Thank you.

I bought a game to have a story told to me, not for me to tell myself a story. If I wanted to do this, a pad and a pen would have cost me far less.

Fanfiction, my imagination, it's not the same thing as seeing it cannonized.

If this truly is the end of the trilogy and Shepard's story, than why would this be so horrible to include? Instead you got me emotionally attached and then trashed my emotions. Why would I even consider giving you another chance to build me up and let me fall, BioWare?

This is quite true.

I would add one or two caveats.  I do agree it was Bioware's story of Shepard given to us to carry out in ways that made it make sense to us.  It was a partnership.  We were made to care.  And in caring we felt all of the bad and the good.  I tried the ME2 suicide mission over again because Garrus died the first time.  I worked to make sure no one did after that.  Bioware made that possible.  I made it happen.  We worked through the story together.  And they always let us see what we wanted and needed to see, until the ending.  What's wrong with the gasp scene is just what was wrong with the original endings.  There is no epilogue for the injured Shepard, who looked like hell when we last saw him/her whole.  We needed that chance to say goodbye face to face, not to a gasping torso.  Shepard's face was the part of the story that most was the player's creation.  That was the part that we took ownership of.  Countless youtube videos never looked right to me, because the face I saw wasn't MY Shepard.

We don't get to say goodbye.  We don't get to share in a poignant moment that would have brought me to tears.  The most powerful moment of any game I've ever played was denied to me and to Shepard, MY Shepard and Bioware's.

[Taboo]

I'm working on a proposal to Bioware right now, JUST for the people who can't reach closure yet.

It will be more realistic.

Simple, yet effective.

Give me some time. I'm going to work on plans when I go on vacation (again) this Monday.

I'll give you updates while on it as well.

[zigamortis]

Will people stop fracking using movies for a reference why the ending works! its not the same medium and it does not work the same.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

SpawnedX wrote...
-------------------------------------
I asked them to tell me Shep's story where he romances Miranda -- it's been beautiful, and now I just want them to finish telling it
-------------------------------------
Thank you.

I bought a game to have a story told to me, not for me to tell myself a story. If I wanted to do this, a pad and a pen would have cost me far less.

Fanfiction, my imagination, it's not the same thing as seeing it cannonized.

If this truly is the end of the trilogy and Shepard's story, than why would this be so horrible to include? Instead you got me emotionally attached and then trashed my emotions. Why would I even consider giving you another chance to build me up and let me fall, BioWare?

This is quite true.

I would add one or two caveats.  I do agree it was Bioware's story of Shepard given to us to carry out in ways that made it make sense to us.  It was a partnership.  We were made to care.  And in caring we felt all of the bad and the good.  I tried the ME2 suicide mission over again because Garrus died the first time.  I worked to make sure no one did after that.  Bioware made that possible.  I made it happen.  We worked through the story together.  And they always let us see what we wanted and needed to see, until the ending.  What's wrong with the gasp scene is just what was wrong with the original endings.  There is no epilogue for the injured Shepard, who looked like hell when we last saw him/her whole.  We needed that chance to say goodbye face to face, not to a gasping torso.  Shepard's face was the part of the story that most was the player's creation.  That was the part that we took ownership of.  Countless youtube videos never looked right to me, because the face I saw wasn't MY Shepard.

We don't get to say goodbye.  We don't get to share in a poignant moment that would have brought me to tears.  The most powerful moment of any game I've ever played was denied to me and to Shepard, MY Shepard and Bioware's.

No we didn't. I think this is the biggest problem remaining. I had to physically write it out myself. There are several different ways it could happen, but a general enough scene to allow a farewell. The Control people got the fairwell. Hell, even the Refuse people got one.

If they hadn't screwed up the last section of the game originally as badly as they did they would have had enough MBs left to allow for that cutscene. You know: if they had not had the "magical squadmates" appear on Gilligan's Planet, and they put the Normandy scene in the original game, that cutscene wouldn't have had to be there. There are your MBs, right there. That would have done it.

Actually if Hudson and Walters had taken more time to write the ending instead of playing Deus Ex Human Revolution, we might have gotten the EC in the first place. [/snark]

And to answer one person's comment way above on the page: Shepard did not fall to earth. Shepard remained on the Citadel. As far as oxygen goes, there are kinetic barriers that keep the air in.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:08 .

[zigamortis]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


No we didn't. I think this is the biggest problem remaining. I had to physically write it out myself. There are several different ways it could happen, but a general enough scene to allow a farewell. The Control people got the fairwell. Hell, even the Refuse people got one.

If they hadn't screwed up the last section of the game originally as badly as they did they would have had enough MBs left to allow for that cutscene. You know: if they had not had the "magical squadmates" appear on Gilligan's Planet, and they put the Normandy scene in the original game, that cutscene wouldn't have had to be there. There are your MBs, right there. That would have done it.

Actually if Hudson and Walters had taken more time to write the ending instead of playing Deus Ex Human Revolution, we might have gotten the EC in the first place. [/snark]

And to answer one person's comment way above on the page: Shepard did not fall to earth. Shepard remained on the Citadel. As far as oxygen goes, there are kinetic barriers that keep the air in.

How is shepard still on the citadel when he clearly apears to be in the london rubble with the conduit in the background and a mako in the background?

[SpiritWolf448]

zigamortis wrote...
How is shepard still on the citadel when he clearly apears to be in the london rubble with the conduit in the background and a mako in the background?

Now that is another story for another DLC or two. *cue EA people with $-signs for eyes*

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


No we didn't. I think this is the biggest problem remaining. I had to physically write it out myself. There are several different ways it could happen, but a general enough scene to allow a farewell. The Control people got the fairwell. Hell, even the Refuse people got one.

If they hadn't screwed up the last section of the game originally as badly as they did they would have had enough MBs left to allow for that cutscene. You know: if they had not had the "magical squadmates" appear on Gilligan's Planet, and they put the Normandy scene in the original game, that cutscene wouldn't have had to be there. There are your MBs, right there. That would have done it.

Actually if Hudson and Walters had taken more time to write the ending instead of playing Deus Ex Human Revolution, we might have gotten the EC in the first place. [/snark]

And to answer one person's comment way above on the page: Shepard did not fall to earth. Shepard remained on the Citadel. As far as oxygen goes, there are kinetic barriers that keep the air in.

I think they could find real estate to make it work-or could have.  They certainly could now if it was standalone content.  I don't believe they will, but...

What they could have done was just showed Anderson's name on the wall.  Then, showed the gasp scene, showed the Normandy flying off, showed a scene like the friends in front of the memorial wall, then a scene from behind them where it's clear they are in a hospital or on the Normandy by the med lab, looking in, but we aren't sure what they are looking at.  We start to get clues, then there's a scene showing their faces and closer to us some hint (hair or a shoulder and arm or something, just a part of what must be Shepard showing), and then Shepard's voice starts to say what Hackett was saying.  And interspersed with some of the Hackett scenes are scenes of friends smiling, Shepard alive, LI, touching Shepard.  Fade out.


Or, show Anderson's name on the wall, the gasp scene, Normandy flying off, Hackett starts talking about rebuilding or some such as teammates get off of Normandy or approach the rubble (depends where rubble is).  At some point it's clear Shepard has been found, since some start digging more frantically.  They start to pull Shepard out and Hackett stops talking-even mid-sentence as Shepard takes over speaking, with those scenes/slides of life going on being played.  Friends part, back off from Shepard and Shepard's LI is shown moving towards Shepard as Shepard looks up and it fades out.

Those are my ideas of short scenes that would have been effective and could have been done by replacing the memorial wall scene and maybe a bit of reworking of the other content shown in the slide show epilogue.

[Wowky]

As a literary technique, what Bioware do with the Shepard "lives" ending is perfectly acceptable. As the OP said, it's been done a million times in plenty of other stories (some were movies, some were books, some were even games).

I think however, it's placement in the series was poorly chosen. If this is truly the end of Shepard's story, the "spectacular conclusion to the trilogy", then it's not hard to see why people might want a straightforward, clear-cut conclusion rather than that sort of "shock" moment. If that was the ending of ME2, I dare say people would have sat there losing their **** about how AMAZING it was and how they couldn't wait for ME3. It's because it's meant to be the end, and it just doesn't get closed off clearly and concisely.

It's a case of good technique applied at the wrong time IMO.

Edit - that being said, I think the endings are fine the way they are and wasn't bothered by what I've described above, moreso just giving my perspective on why I understand others might be disappointed.

Modifié par Wowky, 01 juillet 2012 - 03:04 .

[zigamortis]

Wowky wrote...

As a literary technique, what Bioware do with the Shepard "lives" ending is perfectly acceptable. As the OP said, it's been done a million times in plenty of other stories (some were movies, some were books, some were even games).

I think however, it's placement in the series was poorly chosen. If this is truly the end of Shepard's story, the "spectacular conclusion to the trilogy", then it's not hard to see why people might want a straightforward, clear-cut conclusion rather than that sort of "shock" moment. If that was the ending of ME2, I dare say people would have sat there losing their **** about how AMAZING it was and how they couldn't wait for ME3. It's because it's meant to be the end, and it just doesn't get closed off clearly and concisely.

It's a case of good technique applied at the wrong time IMO.

Edit - that being said, I think the endings are fine the way they are and wasn't bothered by what I've described above, moreso just giving my perspective on why I understand others might be disappointed.

I agree i wouldnt have been so mad if the breathing scene was in ME1 because i KNOW that the game will continue ad sheps story is not suposed to end there.

[3DandBeyond]

Wowky wrote...

As a literary technique, what Bioware do with the Shepard "lives" ending is perfectly acceptable. As the OP said, it's been done a million times in plenty of other stories (some were movies, some were books, some were even games).

I think however, it's placement in the series was poorly chosen. If this is truly the end of Shepard's story, the "spectacular conclusion to the trilogy", then it's not hard to see why people might want a straightforward, clear-cut conclusion rather than that sort of "shock" moment. If that was the ending of ME2, I dare say people would have sat there losing their **** about how AMAZING it was and how they couldn't wait for ME3. It's because it's meant to be the end, and it just doesn't get closed off clearly and concisely.

It's a case of good technique applied at the wrong time IMO.

Edit - that being said, I think the endings are fine the way they are and wasn't bothered by what I've described above, moreso just giving my perspective on why I understand others might be disappointed.

This is it and appreciate so much that you recognize people do see things differently.

I have seen a good many movies, read a lot of books where there is no flaw in allowing the reader to make connections and finish the epilogue from a point that makes sense.  It works for some things but those tend to be stories that lead onto sequels or that will leave you to speculate once the main character's issues have been settled.

It's just this is a game, with a main character that the player helps create and define within certain necessary boundaries, and it shows you everything.  I liken this ending to Mordin's with the genophage cure.  If ME3 were the type of game that leads you to have to speculate and envision happiness at last for Shepard then Mordin's death should not have shown anything but Mordin saying he'd take care of it and implying he'd die.  Shepard needn't have stayed and watched him go on that one way elevator trip, Mordin humming was unnecessary, as was seeing him right before the tower explodes.  All that was needed was for him to say he's going up, the tower explosions, and the cure raining down.  From there you can imagine what happened.  Why did we need to see Mordin there?

This closure is imperative for many in the ending of this game that did finally offer closure on other stories-but even so, in the original ending for the other choices there really was no question of Shepard's fate-dead and dead. And we saw it happen.  Why show that?  Couldn't people imagine?  Many people who now say that we don't need to see Shepard really alive weren't happy with the original ending and why is that?  It involved too much speculation and you had to imagine what happened.  Well, this is no different.

I don't have a problem in some things with a speculative or imaginations only ending-the original Alien is much like that.  We imagine she got picked up and survived, but didn't know it until Aliens.  But here we created Shepard's face and wanted to see it again with Shepard alive in the only ending without closure.