541 réponses à ce sujet

[Fixers0]

pirate1802 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

You know, except for the fact CS Reapers were being destroyed in the last stand cinematic.

No we don't see it getting "destroyed". It had a couple of its arms blown off, yet it still have enough firepower left to one-shot the offending dreadnought into the next galaxy.

Except it was cruiser.

Pretty sure it was a dreadnought.

it has an exposed gun turret and only two engines

Compare Cruiser to Dreadnought.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Fixers0 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

You know, except for the fact CS Reapers were being destroyed in the last stand cinematic.

No we don't see it getting "destroyed". It had a couple of its arms blown off, yet it still have enough firepower left to one-shot the offending dreadnought into the next galaxy.

Except it was cruiser.

Pretty sure it was a dreadnought.

it has an exposed gun turret and only two engines

Compare Cruiser to Dreadnought.

Ok seems like I messed up on that one. Thanks for the clarification DLC. 

[dirty console peasant]

Bump post leviathan
So I just played through Leviathan, and watched the revised ending on YT. and the only thing that I can think right now is WTF. Seriously all that Levi adds is 620 war assets, and a couple lines with the catalyst that only makes its logic worse? Bioware you have so many options, the easiest of which is to just give us a refuse victory, or even just a non-starjar victory. AND YOU DON'T TAKE IT???!!!

[dirty console peasant]

bumpity

[Saans Shadow]

I don't believe a conventional victory is possible at this point. After playing Levi DLC and learning that for every cycle one Capital class reaper is born and every other race that isn't used in that is turned to Destroyer class reapers, given that they have been reaping for nearly a billion years and the occasional loss of a capital class reaper that would give them approx. 15,000-20,000 Sovereign class Dreadnaughts and destroyers in the 100,000+ range. Their numbers are too great for any type of conventional win at this point. Even if the council had believed shepard in ME1 and started building ships ASAP there still wouldn't be enough firepower between a united galaxy to let us win. The Truth is, they outnumber us by a lot with technology far advanced to our own and there was really no way to prepare for it properly. If, and I stress if, the Asari had found out about them when they launched themselves into space and started preparing 2000 years prior. We might, MIGHT, have stood a chance but then we wouldn't have the great game we have now. The Protheans was able to hold them back making the reapers take a few hundred years to fully conquer and harvest them, except javik, and they were more advanced than us (Not by reapers standards though) but I chalk that up to the Prothean "Cosmic Imperative". I would love to have that ability in real life, imagine the advancements we could make if knowledge and experience could be made just through touch...amazing. Anywho thats my two cents and I'm sticking too it lol

[The Twilight God]

Jamaican armed forces can theorhetically down a U.S. fighter or sink a U.S. carrier. They cannot plausibly withstand the combined forces of the U.S. Military.

This is the same situation. Get over it it. Conventional victory negates the credibility of the threat and everything the people fighting the war have experienced. It is not possible. 


And Destroy is the non-Starbinger victory. Destroy is what the Curcible does automatically.

The Twilight God wrote...

1. The Crucible docks, but is not doing anything.
2. The power junction is eliminated violently.
3. The Crucible arms itself and fires.
4. It is thus inferred that something was preventing the Crucible from firing while the power junction remained active.
5. The destruction of the power junction terminated whatever condition existed that prevented the Crucible from arming.
6. The power junction was either itself, or was powering, something that prevented the Crucible from firing.
7. In the absence of this suppressing condition the Crucible initiates the destruction of the Reapers without any direct interaction with the Crucible itself.
8. Conclusion #1: The Crucible's default function is to destroy synthetic life.
9. It has been confirmed in the very opening of this segment that the contraptions at eye level are NOT a part of the Crucible.
10. Upon the destruction of the power junction the beam running down the center of the chasm deactivates.
11. It can therefore be inferred that the power junction was either itself, or was powering, whatever it is that was generating the beam running down into the chasm.
12. The Crucible arms, sends a pulse into the Citadel and fires despite the absence of this beam.
13. In both Control and Synthesis the beam remains active as the Crucible's tip ignites.
14. Conclusion #2: The beam is not a function of the Crucible itself.

Given the above facts, the Crucible can in no way be dependent upon the contraption at eye level to function as it is designed to arm automatically and operates independently of the beam. Furthermore, throughout all this we have to remember that Shepard does not flip a switch or push a button. He destroys a component of a contraption that is NOT part of the Crucible.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 01 septembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[.PHANTOM]

interesting idea, but art trumps all apparently even some logic.

[Valmarn]

It's true that Sovereign's kinetic barriers were the only thing keeping him/it from being destroyed by the attacking ships. Once Saren was toast, Sovereign's shields were down, and he/it was subsequently toast, too.
Admiral Hackett said, "We'll hit them where they're weak."
It's not so much "where they're weak" but "when they're weak."
I like it.

It's just too bad that Casey Hudson, Mike Gamble, and Mac Walters don't know Mass Effect lore as well as we do. Otherwise, Mass Effect 3 might not have been such a disappointment.

It's a good thing that Casey Hudson, Mike Gamble, and Mac Walters don't know Mass Effect lore as well as we do. Otherwise, they might have ret-conned the codex.

[dirty console peasant]

bump

[The Twilight God]

Non-starchild victory is called Destroy

Starchild = Dead
Reapers = Dead
The Solution = Ended
Galactic Civilization = Free to self-determinate... until the next threat.

Doesn't get more anti-Starchild than that.

[dirty console peasant]

The Twilight God wrote...

Non-starchild victory is called Destroy

Starchild = Dead
Reapers = Dead
The Solution = Ended
Galactic Civilization = Free to self-determinate... until the next threat.

Doesn't get more anti-Starchild than that.

choice was still given to us by the little brat.  Title used to be conventional victory but that gained a negative connotation, so I changed it.  The price of Destroy is too high if the brat is not lying, but I just can not trust the grand master Reaper.

[The Twilight God]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Non-starchild victory is called Destroy

Starchild = Dead
Reapers = Dead
The Solution = Ended
Galactic Civilization = Free to self-determinate... until the next threat.

Doesn't get more anti-Starchild than that.

choice was still given to us by the little brat.  Title used to be conventional victory but that gained a negative connotation, so I changed it.  The price of Destroy is too high if the brat is not lying, but I just can not trust the grand master Reaper.

It wasn't given to us by him. He merely points it out.

The option is there with or without Starbinger. Unlike Synthesis and Control, which he can literally turn off and on. He can't turn off blowing up his contraption that apparently keeps the Crucible from firing automatically like it's supposed to.

How is the price of Destroy too high? How is saving trillions of lives too high a price???

Modifié par The Twilight God, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:08 .

[dirty console peasant]

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Non-starchild victory is called Destroy

Starchild = Dead
Reapers = Dead
The Solution = Ended
Galactic Civilization = Free to self-determinate... until the next threat.

Doesn't get more anti-Starchild than that.

choice was still given to us by the little brat.  Title used to be conventional victory but that gained a negative connotation, so I changed it.  The price of Destroy is too high if the brat is not lying, but I just can not trust the grand master Reaper.

It wasn't given to us by him. He merely points it out.

The option is there with or without Starbinger. Unlike Synthesis and Control, which he can literally turn off and on. He can't turn off blowing up his little device that apparently keeps the Crucible from firing automatically like it's supposed to.

How is the price of Destroy too high?

technically he does not give us any of the choices, he simply points them all out.
to answer your question,  I will not sacrifice three races (maybe more, we do not know if other unknown species developed AI) just to save the rest.  For reference those three races are the Geth, Edi, and the Virtual Aliens. Raw math does not agree with me, but the value of an entire race is >>> the value of half of every race.  Therefore if in "conventional victory" (in quotes because it technically would not be but what I am referring to is victory without firing the crucible, maybe refuse).  The losses were about half of every sentient race, then it would be better than just losing all of three races.

Modifié par Shepard Cmdr, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:10 .

[NS Wizdum]

Saans Shadow wrote...

I don't believe a conventional victory is possible at this point. After playing Levi DLC and learning that for every cycle one Capital class reaper is born and every other race that isn't used in that is turned to Destroyer class reapers, given that they have been reaping for nearly a billion years and the occasional loss of a capital class reaper that would give them approx. 15,000-20,000 Sovereign class Dreadnaughts and destroyers in the 100,000+ range. Their numbers are too great for any type of conventional win at this point. Even if the council had believed shepard in ME1 and started building ships ASAP there still wouldn't be enough firepower between a united galaxy to let us win. The Truth is, they outnumber us by a lot with technology far advanced to our own and there was really no way to prepare for it properly. If, and I stress if, the Asari had found out about them when they launched themselves into space and started preparing 2000 years prior. We might, MIGHT, have stood a chance but then we wouldn't have the great game we have now. The Protheans was able to hold them back making the reapers take a few hundred years to fully conquer and harvest them, except javik, and they were more advanced than us (Not by reapers standards though) but I chalk that up to the Prothean "Cosmic Imperative". I would love to have that ability in real life, imagine the advancements we could make if knowledge and experience could be made just through touch...amazing. Anywho thats my two cents and I'm sticking too it lol

We killed how many Soverign class dreadnoughts in this cycle? This is actually really good news for the organics. All you have to do is kill 2 dreadnoughts every 50,000 years, and the Reapers will eventually lose in the long term. We also have an ally that can kill Reapers by thinking hard at them.

[dirty console peasant]

NS Wizdum wrote...

Saans Shadow wrote...

I don't believe a conventional victory is possible at this point. After playing Levi DLC and learning that for every cycle one Capital class reaper is born and every other race that isn't used in that is turned to Destroyer class reapers, given that they have been reaping for nearly a billion years and the occasional loss of a capital class reaper that would give them approx. 15,000-20,000 Sovereign class Dreadnaughts and destroyers in the 100,000+ range. Their numbers are too great for any type of conventional win at this point. Even if the council had believed shepard in ME1 and started building ships ASAP there still wouldn't be enough firepower between a united galaxy to let us win. The Truth is, they outnumber us by a lot with technology far advanced to our own and there was really no way to prepare for it properly. If, and I stress if, the Asari had found out about them when they launched themselves into space and started preparing 2000 years prior. We might, MIGHT, have stood a chance but then we wouldn't have the great game we have now. The Protheans was able to hold them back making the reapers take a few hundred years to fully conquer and harvest them, except javik, and they were more advanced than us (Not by reapers standards though) but I chalk that up to the Prothean "Cosmic Imperative". I would love to have that ability in real life, imagine the advancements we could make if knowledge and experience could be made just through touch...amazing. Anywho thats my two cents and I'm sticking too it lol

We killed how many Soverign class dreadnoughts in this cycle? This is actually really good news for the organics. All you have to do is kill 2 dreadnoughts every 50,000 years, and the Reapers will eventually lose in the long term. We also have an ally that can kill Reapers by thinking hard at them.

I would barely call the Leviathans an "ally", I get the feeling that they are almost as bad as their creations, but that is quite true.

[T-Raks]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Non-starchild victory is called Destroy

Starchild = Dead
Reapers = Dead
The Solution = Ended
Galactic Civilization = Free to self-determinate... until the next threat.

Doesn't get more anti-Starchild than that.

choice was still given to us by the little brat.  Title used to be conventional victory but that gained a negative connotation, so I changed it.  The price of Destroy is too high if the brat is not lying, but I just can not trust the grand master Reaper.

It wasn't given to us by him. He merely points it out.

The option is there with or without Starbinger. Unlike Synthesis and Control, which he can literally turn off and on. He can't turn off blowing up his little device that apparently keeps the Crucible from firing automatically like it's supposed to.

How is the price of Destroy too high?

technically he does not give us any of the choices, he simply points them all out.
to answer your question,  I will not sacrifice three races (maybe more, we do not know if other unknown species developed AI) just to save the rest.  For reference those three races are the Geth, Edi, and the Virtual Aliens. Raw math does not agree with me, but the value of an entire race is >>> the value of half of every race.  Therefore if in "conventional victory" (in quotes because it technically would not be but what I am referring to is victory without firing the crucible, maybe refuse).  The losses were about half of every sentient race, then it would be better than just losing all of three races.

That's nice and all, but you have to decide between saving every organic race or losing all of this cycle. Finish the job! Hackett out!

[Eterna]

Because, this contrived reasoning for conventional victory needed a bump.

Keep grasping at those straws guys!

[dirty console peasant]

Eterna5 wrote...

Because, this contrived reasoning for conventional victory needed a bump.

Keep grasping at those straws guys!

very helpful, thanks.

[The Twilight God]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

technically he does not give us any of the choices, he simply points them all out.

Inocrrect. 

It can turn Synthesis off and on at will which is demonstrated in the refuse ending. It had the synthesis array constructed to begin with. It can turn Control prongs on and off at will which is demonstrated as you approach them for the Control ending. It had the control prongs constructed to begin with.

Those options are its doing. They exist because it allows them to exist. If it doesn't want Shepard to make those choices it can turn them off. Destroy, on the otherhand, is what the Crucible does as a default. It is what you, me and everyone else were fighting through London to do. The moment you opened the ward arms you agreed to allow Destroy to occur. It was not until you are told, or rather ASSUMED, it would do more than kill the Reapers that you second guessed your objective. If not for the Reapers contengency contraption it is what would have happened as soon as the Crucible docked without any further input from the player. So it is not Starbinger's doing.

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

to answer your question,  I will not sacrifice three races (maybe more, we do not know if other unknown species developed AI) just to save the rest.  For reference those three races are the Geth, Edi, and the Virtual Aliens. 

As I mentioned before you ASSUME this. Your only basis for believeing this is the word of the "Reaper King". Not exactly what I'd consider the most trustworthy source. Especially considering the position it is in.

The Kid says, "All synthetics will be targeted". He even points out that Shepard is particially synthetic to imply Shepard's synthetics will be targeted as well. However, this is shown to be a deception. Shepard can survive. His spine was reconstructed in 3 areas, one being at the neck so if his synthetic parts failed he would die as his body would shut down. That breathe wouldn't even be possible. The fleet ships (and the Normandy) are still operational and cruising pass a relay. Those ships are all synthetic. EDI is technically a reaper as her blue box is built with actual reaper tech. So if it targets the Reapers it will target her (a good Reaper program). The only things that are "reaper tech" are things that indoctrinate and function as an extension of their will. Or things that bear distinctive markers of the Reapers. Things that, as EDI would put it, have "reaper signatures". EDI is made of Reaper technology. No indoctrination effects, but parts that are distinctly reaper, taken right out of Sovereign.

People say the Geth have "reaper tech", but this isn't true. As far as "Reaper code" is concerned, it's a terminology which is commonly misunderstood. The Geth simply have a code that the Reapers designed to improve their efficiency, but it doesn't make them reaper-like or make them "reaper tech". For instance, say a reaper was an architech and built a house. The Crucble wouldn't blow up the house just because a reaper designed it leaving all the houses builtd by others intact. The house isn't "reaper tech". The Geth remain programs distinguished from the reapers. Legion doesn't say it was the code that allowed them to be controlled. The code was simply something that imporvement their efficiency. It had nothing to do with the actual control. Otherwise, Legion would have turned on Shepard.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 10 septembre 2012 - 08:58 .

[dorktainian]

The Twilight God wrote...

Non-starchild victory is called Destroy

Starchild = Dead
Reapers = Dead
The Solution = Ended
Galactic Civilization = Free to self-determinate... until the next threat.

Doesn't get more anti-Starchild than that.

I like this so much.

[dirty console peasant]

bump

[ThaDPG]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Saans Shadow wrote...

I don't believe a conventional victory is possible at this point. After playing Levi DLC and learning that for every cycle one Capital class reaper is born and every other race that isn't used in that is turned to Destroyer class reapers, given that they have been reaping for nearly a billion years and the occasional loss of a capital class reaper that would give them approx. 15,000-20,000 Sovereign class Dreadnaughts and destroyers in the 100,000+ range. Their numbers are too great for any type of conventional win at this point. Even if the council had believed shepard in ME1 and started building ships ASAP there still wouldn't be enough firepower between a united galaxy to let us win. The Truth is, they outnumber us by a lot with technology far advanced to our own and there was really no way to prepare for it properly. If, and I stress if, the Asari had found out about them when they launched themselves into space and started preparing 2000 years prior. We might, MIGHT, have stood a chance but then we wouldn't have the great game we have now. The Protheans was able to hold them back making the reapers take a few hundred years to fully conquer and harvest them, except javik, and they were more advanced than us (Not by reapers standards though) but I chalk that up to the Prothean "Cosmic Imperative". I would love to have that ability in real life, imagine the advancements we could make if knowledge and experience could be made just through touch...amazing. Anywho thats my two cents and I'm sticking too it lol

We killed how many Soverign class dreadnoughts in this cycle? This is actually really good news for the organics. All you have to do is kill 2 dreadnoughts every 50,000 years, and the Reapers will eventually lose in the long term. We also have an ally that can kill Reapers by thinking hard at them.

I would barely call the Leviathans an "ally", I get the feeling that they are almost as bad as their creations, but that is quite true.

For the time being, until the Reapers are defeated, they are "allies", after that, who knows?  fodder for another ME game, or at least a full blown expansion I would think

[RasenRebirth]

We also can drop who meteors on them fry them with high heat amounts sheild dont hold up to heat. and having over 9000 EMS and not standing a chance is a lot of crap

[drayfish]

RasenRebirth wrote...

We also can drop who meteors on them fry them with high heat amounts sheild dont hold up to heat. and having over 9000 EMS and not standing a chance is a lot of crap

Doesn't the game (through Hackett's reports) actually say that we are holding our own and 'winning ground' in some areas if our EMS is high enough in those regions?  How is that even possible at all if Reapers cannot be fought by conventional means?  It seems the only time that we have to accept that conventional victory is impossible is when the game arbitrarilly snatches control out of our hands at the end.

If 'no means no' was really their message they had an inconsistent and utterly misleading way of communicating it.

[Ender Ghost]

Why has no one mentioned the Geth fleet yet, I'm willing to bet a Geth dreadnought can one shot a reaper destroyer, I really wished they had elaborated on the capabilities of the various fleets.