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non-starchild victory is possible...data given in game (edited for Omega)


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#76
Silhouett3

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Threads like these are doomed to end up pointless in this universe. My advice for you guys to go play something like Halo or anything that isn't Lovecraftian.

Just look at the Derelict Reaper. What's left of the species that was able to just shoot down a Reaper by a planetary cannon? So no, no conventional victory for you or any another cycle.

Reapers don't reveal their nature until invasions. They watch your progress and decide when is the perfect time according to their logic to put an end to you. They don't suffer from war fatigue, diseases, famine; don't have supply lines, don't lack communication at any rate. They are deceptive, older, smarter, harder, faster, patient, millions of years advanced then you. Like TIM figured out already, they could destroy all if wanted.

And it's not like we don't have threads for non-conventional ideas.

Modifié par Silhouett3, 30 juin 2012 - 05:43 .


#77
dreman9999

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movieguyabw wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

No, it's not.


Says the Reapers.

And Hackett.



Who wants to bet Hackett's indoctrinated?  I've personally thought so since the whole "Why haven't we heard from Hackett?!" line in the prologue.  ;)

How is it indoctriantion to understand that unlimited forces>limited forces.


We have the Reaper code.  A fetch quest involves finding it so Asari soldiers can decipher Reaper transmissions and preempt Reaper attack patterns.  EDI is based off Reaper code.  The Geth end up downloading it in order to acheive true AI status.  TIM found a way to control husks.

Take your scientists, and your AIs, and the data you steal from TIM, and create a virus to attack the Reaper code.  If you can't use it to shut down the Reapers, use it to block their transmission to the husks.  TIM and the fetch quest I mentioned implies this can be done.


Thanix cannons were specifically designed after the battle with Sovereign, for the purpose of attacking ships of that magnitude.  And the entire Turian fleet uses them.  Heck, the Normandy uses it.

Cains can kill a Reaper Destroyer in a  single shot.  Give your footsoldiers Cains instead of Grenade Launchers.

And for what is supposed to be the bulk of the Reaper army, there don't seem to be that many Reapers on Earth.

Without their husks (which would be disconnected from their control due to the virus I mentioned earlier), they no longer are an infinite army.  They are finite.  And their footsoldiers can be One-shotted by Cains on the ground, while their flagships are taken on in the sky, by the entire galactic armada.


Heck, at this point, the only thing they'd have going for them would be indoctrination...  Which, if they indoctrinated the military mind in charge of their enemy's attack strategy, then they probably have a pretty good shot.


Yeah, I stand by my statement.  Hackett is indoctrinated.  :P

What you just said makes no sense? Why would an indoctrianted Hackett commiton a weapon to kill the reapers that really does kil the reapers? The problem with the weopon is not that is doesn't work. It's that it also works on a group of AI we don't want to kill.

#78
dreman9999

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savionen wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

We have the Reaper code.  A fetch quest involves finding it so Asari soldiers can decipher Reaper transmissions and preempt Reaper attack patterns.  EDI is based off Reaper code.  The Geth end up downloading it in order to acheive true AI status.  TIM found a way to control husks.

Take your scientists, and your AIs, and the data you steal from TIM, and create a virus to attack the Reaper code.  If you can't use it to shut down the Reapers, use it to block their transmission to the husks.  TIM and the fetch quest I mentioned implies this can be done.


Thanix cannons were specifically designed after the battle with Sovereign, for the purpose of attacking ships of that magnitude.  And the entire Turian fleet uses them.  Heck, the Normandy uses it.

Cains can kill a Reaper Destroyer in a  single shot.  Give your footsoldiers Cains instead of Grenade Launchers.

And for what is supposed to be the bulk of the Reaper army, there don't seem to be that many Reapers on Earth.

Without their husks (which would be disconnected from their control due to the virus I mentioned earlier), they no longer are an infinite army.  They are finite.  And their footsoldiers can be One-shotted by Cains on the ground, while their flagships are taken on in the sky, by the entire galactic armada.


Heck, at this point, the only thing they'd have going for them would be indoctrination...  Which, if they indoctrinated the military mind in charge of their enemy's attack strategy, then they probably have a pretty good shot.

Yeah, I stand by my statement.  Hackett is indoctrinated.  :P


Incoming response that Reapers have infinite spacecrafts even though a number is never determined/proven, etc, etc.



You clearly don't understand that the referance is to theri husk forces.

#79
ArchDuck

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dreman9999 wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

Possibly you mean "virtually unlimited" or "easily replaceable"? Because unlimited is impossible.

And I can understand if you are annoyed by my insistance at clearing up a technicality. But my intention is not to harass or annoy but to show that it is not quite as one sided as it appears.

The Reaper minions are easily replaced, the Reapers themselves are replaced at a horrendously slow rate.

If you can show me a limit to the troops, which clearly is not shown, then you can say that. Reguardless, we on the other hand have clear limits that given time the reapers can over run. We can't win convertionally like that.


Ahhh you must be joking right?
Unlimited = No limit.
So that would mean bypassing the universe's limits of space, matter and energy.

At the very least reaper minion forces are limited to the total current amount of Galactic citizens that they could draw on.

#80
movieguyabw

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dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

No, it's not.


Says the Reapers.

And Hackett.



Who wants to bet Hackett's indoctrinated?  I've personally thought so since the whole "Why haven't we heard from Hackett?!" line in the prologue.  ;)

How is it indoctriantion to understand that unlimited forces>limited forces.


We have the Reaper code.  A fetch quest involves finding it so Asari soldiers can decipher Reaper transmissions and preempt Reaper attack patterns.  EDI is based off Reaper code.  The Geth end up downloading it in order to acheive true AI status.  TIM found a way to control husks.

Take your scientists, and your AIs, and the data you steal from TIM, and create a virus to attack the Reaper code.  If you can't use it to shut down the Reapers, use it to block their transmission to the husks.  TIM and the fetch quest I mentioned implies this can be done.


Thanix cannons were specifically designed after the battle with Sovereign, for the purpose of attacking ships of that magnitude.  And the entire Turian fleet uses them.  Heck, the Normandy uses it.

Cains can kill a Reaper Destroyer in a  single shot.  Give your footsoldiers Cains instead of Grenade Launchers.

And for what is supposed to be the bulk of the Reaper army, there don't seem to be that many Reapers on Earth.

Without their husks (which would be disconnected from their control due to the virus I mentioned earlier), they no longer are an infinite army.  They are finite.  And their footsoldiers can be One-shotted by Cains on the ground, while their flagships are taken on in the sky, by the entire galactic armada.


Heck, at this point, the only thing they'd have going for them would be indoctrination...  Which, if they indoctrinated the military mind in charge of their enemy's attack strategy, then they probably have a pretty good shot.


Yeah, I stand by my statement.  Hackett is indoctrinated.  :P

What you just said makes no sense? Why would an indoctrianted Hackett commiton a weapon to kill the reapers that really does kil the reapers? The problem with the weopon is not that is doesn't work. It's that it also works on a group of AI we don't want to kill.


Eh.  Nuances.  :P


Point is: conventional victory is possible.  Reaper forces can theoretically be rendered finite, and then wiped out.  Hackett just chooses to put all his chips on a weapon he has no idea will work, and tells his soldiers to use Avenger assault rifles and grenade launchers on Reaper Destroyers, when they have a perfectly good stash of Cains laying around.

#81
savionen

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Silhouett3 wrote...

Threads like these are doomed to end up pointless in this universe. My advice for you guys to go play something like Halo or anything that isn't Lovecraftian.

Just look at the Derelict Reaper. What's left of the species that was able to just shoot down a Reaper by a planetary cannon? So no, no conventional victory for you or any another cycle.

Reapers don't reveal their nature until invasions. They watch your progress and decide when is the perfect time according to their logic to put an end to you. They don't suffer from war fatigue, diseases, famine; don't have supply lines, don't lack communication at any rate. They are deceptive, older, smarter, harder, faster, patient, millions of years advanced then you. Like TIM figured out already, they could destroy all if wanted.

And it's not like we don't have threads for non-conventional ideas.


The next cycle wins by conventional means if you pick Reject. Liara says the Crucible doesn't work or something like that.

Modifié par savionen, 30 juin 2012 - 05:54 .


#82
Applepie_Svk

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 I already post it elsewhere ....


First of all I would like to point on the Reapers tactics and arguments:

1.
Sovergein said that size of Reaper´s army will shroud skies of every world ...

Well it´s obvious that Reapers succesfully occupy only Earth, Thessia, but from some unkown Reasons their forces are scattered and they have a problem with fast advance against some of the key points like Palaven and Turians space, than also avoiding primitive Yagh or smart Salarians...
I can´t disagree that they did major blows succesfuly but Council forces still ressist even if odds are not in our favor.
But what I can say Reapers army is scatered around galaxy and loosing their overwhelming power which they always used on single target in previous cycles...


2. 
Why are Reapers realy angry ?...

50 Thousand years ago survivors of Ilos did it via conduit to Citadel and sabotage the Keepers which gave us chance to delay the invasion. This chance which they gave us also interrupt base tactics:
- chance to find a true nature of Citadel and Keepers
- interrupting Reapers tactics: opening Citadel Relay, closing Relay Network


So without using their major tactics they are already weakened and they must face fullscale invasion instead of slow harvest with step by step...

3. 
Reaper tactics:

- Basic of Reaper tactics was arrival through Citadel Relay and kill with one shot leaders and network.
This was interrupted which means that they need to get into our galaxy on their own or they need to get to closer Citadel relay to the edge of Galaxy (Arrival DLC) to start invasion.

- indoctrination - it´s their only tactic which is still working 

- overwhelming power through technological superiority and focusing force to few points (well technological superioty still remain but their forces are in fullscale invasion)

- Omega 4 Relay and Collectors, it´s pretty clear that Reapers were always walking in the shadows - hard to say if Omega relay was built just after Prothean cycle which took few centuries or before, but what is clear that this was their another shadowy tactics which should serve in their favor.  

4. 
Fail safe system aka Collectors:

So Collectors served as an observers of Cylce, collecting valuable genetic material and information about Cycle.
They were trying to craft human Reaper which could means that Harb was planning to second ambush of Citadel with Human Reaper, in their favor played a fact that Council was ignoring abductions.

5.
My point is that, even if Reapers are more advanced than we they must lied 3 years ago about their numbers:

If we are taking in fact that Leviathan of Dis was nearly bilion years old and first true Reaper than each cycle is crafted just one capital ship of Sovergein class than there is probably: 20 000 - Sovergein class ships... if we are taking the fact that Reaper came to harvest each 50 thousand years. (atleast - 4 ships. lol Leviathan, Derelict Reaper, Sovereign, Human Reaper...)
But Sovereign class shipt took to craft lot of organic bodies as was told that could cost humanity whole population to craft Human Reaper in ME2, so if only one most succesfull civilization can be transformed into Sovergein than others must serve to craft other class ships. 

Sovereign class ships is great 2km
Destroyer class ship is great 160 meters
Processor class ship is great 200 meters

Speculation:
So it means that from other species in each cycle with simple logic with atleast 12 bilion population for one it took craft 10 ships of Destroyer or Processor class ship. Let´s say that each cycle there should be 8 species vital for harvest - it means that each cycle Reapers could refresh their ranks and now they should have 1 600 000 ships of Destroyer and Processor class ships - if we are taking to fact that they didn´t lose single ship - well this would proved Sovergein´s quote from ME1.

6.
Numbers? 
With battle over Palaven they were defending orbit of planet with maybe few hundreeds against greates military force in our cycle, even if they are more advanced they shouldn´t disappreciated enemy strenght.

The geth-quarian conflict is infiltrated by one Reaper? If they realy could than they would be storm both fleets on same time instead of that they used geths as tool for their intentions, which is disproving their great and almost limitless numbers and adding one more shadow tactic. If they send few Sovergein Reaper class ships - I would say fine, but they send one destroyer which end on surface of Rannoch like splashed fly...

Again in final battle over Earth we have mostly few hundreed ships which are defending most important thing in Reaper society and they know from TIM that Shepard is planning to deploy most important weapon in war against Reapers, it means two ways:
- they are overconfident about our odds
- Crucible is not supposed to be a weapon (Catalyst is liar - check my signature)

7.
Previous cycles - Numbers
I think that even if Reaper are there for so long that they must took some loses, it´s like said that despite that enemy is advance we can´t make them bleed - even if they just lose lesser class it would be atleast something.

8. 
Previous cycle - Protheans fought by attrition and even still it took few centuries to fall of Prothean Empire despite that the relay network was closed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our cycle:

1. 
Technology - If we stay in the level technology of Mass Effect 1 than we could say - YEAH WE ARE SCREWED
technology three years ago was limited and primitive in comparison with ME3, it took whole fleet to kill a Reaper and they did it maybe only because Shepard kill Sovereign´s incarnation into Saren.

Thanix cannons - after what we have defeated Sovergein in ME1, our sciencist managed to craft these nice guns which help us to defeat collectors which had technology based on Reaper´s own, so if they managed to upgrade ships with these cannons than I don´t see a point that we cannot beat them in battlefield.

Thanix missiles - this I would love, they were succesful in hitting and damaging Reapers even if just a lesser class like Destroyer.

Cain - again very limited intafry weapons but still effective against Reaper´s on ground advance.

Since Mass Effect 1 we´ve been frequently in contact with many kind of technology, researches, discoveries which bring us to final stage of ME3 where we are facing to Reaper threat in battlefield, even if Citadel took us for fool I don´t think that they ignored technological benefits which brings last few years, only fool would ignore this chance.

2.
Fall of Batarian Hegemony - it´s pretty clear that batarians stayed with technology 3 years ago and also Balak said that they had been sabotaged by indoctrinated agents(shadowy tactics again and same with Protheans), so they fall very quick with no real chance to survive.

3.
Deffense - even if the Homeworlds are under attack most of other worlds are left behind like nothing had happened, there is just few explanations :
- Reapers have smaller numbers than they told us
- Some of the Reapers didn´t make it from dark space
- Arrival put down some of them
- Reapers are so desperate that they are focusing on Homeworlds to bring greater impact on moral of enemy

4.
Fleets - Well it deppends on our decision but with all fleets - we could say that we have a chance to gain greatest fleet.
1. Quarians + Geths (greatest by size)
2. Turians (greatest military by size)
3. Asari (greatest dreadnaughts) 
4. Humanity (fleet is smaller but still capable - mostly lesser classes of ships)
5. mixed fleets

5.
Tactics - it was proved that fleets around space can be delayed or destroyed in smaller pockets with succes, so meanwhile that main Reapers forces are focusing on homeworlds their smaller fleets were bleeding. 

In ME1 we cannot bring down with whole fleet single Reaper of sovergein class but in ME3 it´s enough 4 ships of lesser class to bring down Sovergein class (Thanix FTW)

Very interesting is part of ground forces achieving victory over surface of Palaven where Reaper took loses just against ground units without support of fleet support. 

Even if it´s obvious that we can´t win on long run or with guerila war we are still in power to oppose them, and with good decision in final events we can weaken Reapers and if they will be still passive, than we would be able kill them step by step.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal of text... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

#83
movieguyabw

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savionen wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Threads like these are doomed to end up pointless in this universe. My advice for you guys to go play something like Halo or anything that isn't Lovecraftian.

Just look at the Derelict Reaper. What's left of the species that was able to just shoot down a Reaper by a planetary cannon? So no, no conventional victory for you or any another cycle.

Reapers don't reveal their nature until invasions. They watch your progress and decide when is the perfect time according to their logic to put an end to you. They don't suffer from war fatigue, diseases, famine; don't have supply lines, don't lack communication at any rate. They are deceptive, older, smarter, harder, faster, patient, millions of years advanced then you. Like TIM figured out already, they could destroy all if wanted.

And it's not like we don't have threads for non-conventional ideas.


The next cycle wins by conventional means if you pick Reject. Liara says the Crucible doesn't work or something like that.


Nope.  She says the Crucible doesn't work in our cycle.

Gamble confirmed the next cycle won using the Crucible.  :whistle:

Modifié par movieguyabw, 30 juin 2012 - 05:58 .


#84
LateNightSalami

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movieguyabw wrote...

savionen wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Threads like these are doomed to end up pointless in this universe. My advice for you guys to go play something like Halo or anything that isn't Lovecraftian.

Just look at the Derelict Reaper. What's left of the species that was able to just shoot down a Reaper by a planetary cannon? So no, no conventional victory for you or any another cycle.

Reapers don't reveal their nature until invasions. They watch your progress and decide when is the perfect time according to their logic to put an end to you. They don't suffer from war fatigue, diseases, famine; don't have supply lines, don't lack communication at any rate. They are deceptive, older, smarter, harder, faster, patient, millions of years advanced then you. Like TIM figured out already, they could destroy all if wanted.

And it's not like we don't have threads for non-conventional ideas.


The next cycle wins by conventional means if you pick Reject. Liara says the Crucible doesn't work or something like that.


Nope.  She says the Crucible doesn't work in our cycle.

Gamble confirmed the next cycle won using the convenient plot device that robs the player of winning on his own merits:whistle:


Fixed,

Modifié par LateNightSalami, 30 juin 2012 - 06:02 .


#85
dreman9999

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movieguyabw wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

No, it's not.


Says the Reapers.

And Hackett.



Who wants to bet Hackett's indoctrinated?  I've personally thought so since the whole "Why haven't we heard from Hackett?!" line in the prologue.  ;)

How is it indoctriantion to understand that unlimited forces>limited forces.


We have the Reaper code.  A fetch quest involves finding it so Asari soldiers can decipher Reaper transmissions and preempt Reaper attack patterns.  EDI is based off Reaper code.  The Geth end up downloading it in order to acheive true AI status.  TIM found a way to control husks.

Take your scientists, and your AIs, and the data you steal from TIM, and create a virus to attack the Reaper code.  If you can't use it to shut down the Reapers, use it to block their transmission to the husks.  TIM and the fetch quest I mentioned implies this can be done.


Thanix cannons were specifically designed after the battle with Sovereign, for the purpose of attacking ships of that magnitude.  And the entire Turian fleet uses them.  Heck, the Normandy uses it.

Cains can kill a Reaper Destroyer in a  single shot.  Give your footsoldiers Cains instead of Grenade Launchers.

And for what is supposed to be the bulk of the Reaper army, there don't seem to be that many Reapers on Earth.

Without their husks (which would be disconnected from their control due to the virus I mentioned earlier), they no longer are an infinite army.  They are finite.  And their footsoldiers can be One-shotted by Cains on the ground, while their flagships are taken on in the sky, by the entire galactic armada.


Heck, at this point, the only thing they'd have going for them would be indoctrination...  Which, if they indoctrinated the military mind in charge of their enemy's attack strategy, then they probably have a pretty good shot.


Yeah, I stand by my statement.  Hackett is indoctrinated.  :P

What you just said makes no sense? Why would an indoctrianted Hackett commiton a weapon to kill the reapers that really does kil the reapers? The problem with the weopon is not that is doesn't work. It's that it also works on a group of AI we don't want to kill.


Eh.  Nuances.  :P


Point is: conventional victory is possible.  Reaper forces can theoretically be rendered finite, and then wiped out.  Hackett just chooses to put all his chips on a weapon he has no idea will work, and tells his soldiers to use Avenger assault rifles and grenade launchers on Reaper Destroyers, when they have a perfectly good stash of Cains laying around.

No, convention victory is not posible because the reapers can make endless huck forces....Husk forces that can take our ships. How is this not clear?

#86
Mike 9987

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Actually, this would be a perfect reward for those who grind the multiplayer and get a high EMS from promoting characters.

#87
movieguyabw

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dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

No, it's not.


Says the Reapers.

And Hackett.



Who wants to bet Hackett's indoctrinated?  I've personally thought so since the whole "Why haven't we heard from Hackett?!" line in the prologue.  ;)

How is it indoctriantion to understand that unlimited forces>limited forces.


We have the Reaper code.  A fetch quest involves finding it so Asari soldiers can decipher Reaper transmissions and preempt Reaper attack patterns.  EDI is based off Reaper code.  The Geth end up downloading it in order to acheive true AI status.  TIM found a way to control husks.

Take your scientists, and your AIs, and the data you steal from TIM, and create a virus to attack the Reaper code.  If you can't use it to shut down the Reapers, use it to block their transmission to the husks.  TIM and the fetch quest I mentioned implies this can be done.


Thanix cannons were specifically designed after the battle with Sovereign, for the purpose of attacking ships of that magnitude.  And the entire Turian fleet uses them.  Heck, the Normandy uses it.

Cains can kill a Reaper Destroyer in a  single shot.  Give your footsoldiers Cains instead of Grenade Launchers.

And for what is supposed to be the bulk of the Reaper army, there don't seem to be that many Reapers on Earth.

Without their husks (which would be disconnected from their control due to the virus I mentioned earlier), they no longer are an infinite army.  They are finite.  And their footsoldiers can be One-shotted by Cains on the ground, while their flagships are taken on in the sky, by the entire galactic armada.


Heck, at this point, the only thing they'd have going for them would be indoctrination...  Which, if they indoctrinated the military mind in charge of their enemy's attack strategy, then they probably have a pretty good shot.


Yeah, I stand by my statement.  Hackett is indoctrinated.  :P

What you just said makes no sense? Why would an indoctrianted Hackett commiton a weapon to kill the reapers that really does kil the reapers? The problem with the weopon is not that is doesn't work. It's that it also works on a group of AI we don't want to kill.


Eh.  Nuances.  :P


Point is: conventional victory is possible.  Reaper forces can theoretically be rendered finite, and then wiped out.  Hackett just chooses to put all his chips on a weapon he has no idea will work, and tells his soldiers to use Avenger assault rifles and grenade launchers on Reaper Destroyers, when they have a perfectly good stash of Cains laying around.

No, convention victory is not posible because the reapers can make endless huck forces....Husk forces that can take our ships. How is this not clear?


Read my post.  Then we'll talk.  ;)

#88
dreman9999

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Applepie_Svk wrote...

 I already post it elsewhere ....


First of all I would like to point on the Reapers tactics and arguments:

1.
Sovergein said that size of Reaper´s army will shroud skies of every world ...

Well it´s obvious that Reapers succesfully occupy only Earth, Thessia, but from some unkown Reasons their forces are scattered and they have a problem with fast advance against some of the key points like Palaven and Turians space, than also avoiding primitive Yagh or smart Salarians...
I can´t disagree that they did major blows succesfuly but Council forces still ressist even if odds are not in our favor.
But what I can say Reapers army is scatered around galaxy and loosing their overwhelming power which they always used on single target in previous cycles...


2. 
Why are Reapers realy angry ?...

50 Thousand years ago survivors of Ilos did it via conduit to Citadel and sabotage the Keepers which gave us chance to delay the invasion. This chance which they gave us also interrupt base tactics:
- chance to find a true nature of Citadel and Keepers
- interrupting Reapers tactics: opening Citadel Relay, closing Relay Network


So without using their major tactics they are already weakened and they must face fullscale invasion instead of slow harvest with step by step...

3. 
Reaper tactics:

- Basic of Reaper tactics was arrival through Citadel Relay and kill with one shot leaders and network.
This was interrupted which means that they need to get into our galaxy on their own or they need to get to closer Citadel relay to the edge of Galaxy (Arrival DLC) to start invasion.

- indoctrination - it´s their only tactic which is still working 

- overwhelming power through technological superiority and focusing force to few points (well technological superioty still remain but their forces are in fullscale invasion)

- Omega 4 Relay and Collectors, it´s pretty clear that Reapers were always walking in the shadows - hard to say if Omega relay was built just after Prothean cycle which took few centuries or before, but what is clear that this was their another shadowy tactics which should serve in their favor.  

4. 
Fail safe system aka Collectors:

So Collectors served as an observers of Cylce, collecting valuable genetic material and information about Cycle.
They were trying to craft human Reaper which could means that Harb was planning to second ambush of Citadel with Human Reaper, in their favor played a fact that Council was ignoring abductions.

5.
My point is that, even if Reapers are more advanced than we they must lied 3 years ago about their numbers:

If we are taking in fact that Leviathan of Dis was nearly bilion years old and first true Reaper than each cycle is crafted just one capital ship of Sovergein class than there is probably: 20 000 - Sovergein class ships... if we are taking the fact that Reaper came to harvest each 50 thousand years. (atleast - 4 ships. lol Leviathan, Derelict Reaper, Sovereign, Human Reaper...)
But Sovereign class shipt took to craft lot of organic bodies as was told that could cost humanity whole population to craft Human Reaper in ME2, so if only one most succesfull civilization can be transformed into Sovergein than others must serve to craft other class ships. 

Sovereign class ships is great 2km
Destroyer class ship is great 160 meters
Processor class ship is great 200 meters

Speculation:
So it means that from other species in each cycle with simple logic with atleast 12 bilion population for one it took craft 10 ships of Destroyer or Processor class ship. Let´s say that each cycle there should be 8 species vital for harvest - it means that each cycle Reapers could refresh their ranks and now they should have 1 600 000 ships of Destroyer and Processor class ships - if we are taking to fact that they didn´t lose single ship - well this would proved Sovergein´s quote from ME1.

6.
Numbers? 
With battle over Palaven they were defending orbit of planet with maybe few hundreeds against greates military force in our cycle, even if they are more advanced they shouldn´t disappreciated enemy strenght.

The geth-quarian conflict is infiltrated by one Reaper? If they realy could than they would be storm both fleets on same time instead of that they used geths as tool for their intentions, which is disproving their great and almost limitless numbers and adding one more shadow tactic. If they send few Sovergein Reaper class ships - I would say fine, but they send one destroyer which end on surface of Rannoch like splashed fly...

Again in final battle over Earth we have mostly few hundreed ships which are defending most important thing in Reaper society and they know from TIM that Shepard is planning to deploy most important weapon in war against Reapers, it means two ways:
- they are overconfident about our odds
- Crucible is not supposed to be a weapon (Catalyst is liar - check my signature)

7.
Previous cycles - Numbers
I think that even if Reaper are there for so long that they must took some loses, it´s like said that despite that enemy is advance we can´t make them bleed - even if they just lose lesser class it would be atleast something.

8. 
Previous cycle - Protheans fought by attrition and even still it took few centuries to fall of Prothean Empire despite that the relay network was closed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our cycle:

1. 
Technology - If we stay in the level technology of Mass Effect 1 than we could say - YEAH WE ARE SCREWED
technology three years ago was limited and primitive in comparison with ME3, it took whole fleet to kill a Reaper and they did it maybe only because Shepard kill Sovereign´s incarnation into Saren.

Thanix cannons - after what we have defeated Sovergein in ME1, our sciencist managed to craft these nice guns which help us to defeat collectors which had technology based on Reaper´s own, so if they managed to upgrade ships with these cannons than I don´t see a point that we cannot beat them in battlefield.

Thanix missiles - this I would love, they were succesful in hitting and damaging Reapers even if just a lesser class like Destroyer.

Cain - again very limited intafry weapons but still effective against Reaper´s on ground advance.

Since Mass Effect 1 we´ve been frequently in contact with many kind of technology, researches, discoveries which bring us to final stage of ME3 where we are facing to Reaper threat in battlefield, even if Citadel took us for fool I don´t think that they ignored technological benefits which brings last few years, only fool would ignore this chance.

2.
Fall of Batarian Hegemony - it´s pretty clear that batarians stayed with technology 3 years ago and also Balak said that they had been sabotaged by indoctrinated agents(shadowy tactics again and same with Protheans), so they fall very quick with no real chance to survive.

3.
Deffense - even if the Homeworlds are under attack most of other worlds are left behind like nothing had happened, there is just few explanations :
- Reapers have smaller numbers than they told us
- Some of the Reapers didn´t make it from dark space
- Arrival put down some of them
- Reapers are so desperate that they are focusing on Homeworlds to bring greater impact on moral of enemy

4.
Fleets - Well it deppends on our decision but with all fleets - we could say that we have a chance to gain greatest fleet.
1. Quarians + Geths (greatest by size)
2. Turians (greatest military by size)
3. Asari (greatest dreadnaughts) 
4. Humanity (fleet is smaller but still capable - mostly lesser classes of ships)
5. mixed fleets

5.
Tactics - it was proved that fleets around space can be delayed or destroyed in smaller pockets with succes, so meanwhile that main Reapers forces are focusing on homeworlds their smaller fleets were bleeding. 

In ME1 we cannot bring down with whole fleet single Reaper of sovergein class but in ME3 it´s enough 4 ships of lesser class to bring down Sovergein class (Thanix FTW)

Very interesting is part of ground forces achieving victory over surface of Palaven where Reaper took loses just against ground units without support of fleet support. 

Even if it´s obvious that we can´t win on long run or with guerila war we are still in power to oppose them, and with good decision in final events we can weaken Reapers and if they will be still passive, than we would be able kill them step by step.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal of text... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Reaper+endless husk troop>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What ever we have now.

#89
Father_Jerusalem

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xsdob wrote...

Anyone want to answer the part where the reapers vastly outnumber the regular fleets?


Nope. They're going to keep on ignoring the facts in the hopes that we'll all eventually just stop, you know, paying attention to them.

#90
movieguyabw

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dreman9999 wrote...

Reaper+endless husk troop>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What ever we have now.


TIM proves husks can be released from Reaper control on Sanctuary.

#91
Bfler

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In ME2 the upgraded Normandy blew up the large Collector ship which based on Reaper tec, with a salvo of it's cannons and in ME3 it seems we have lost all of our previous upgrades.
At the end of ME2 we had the technology (shields, cannons, propulsion etc...) to defeat the Reapers, but it seems that during the production of ME3 they decided to go back to the state that they are an unstoppable force.

#92
movieguyabw

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Father_Jerusalem wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Anyone want to answer the part where the reapers vastly outnumber the regular fleets?


Nope. They're going to keep on ignoring the facts in the hopes that we'll all eventually just stop, you know, paying attention to them.


Hey, don't get me wrong - I'd love to see the proof that Reaper ships vastly outnumber our own...  prove it, though.  Without, you know, relying on Sovereign's speech.

Count for me how many Reaper ships are in the cutscenes, vs how many of our ships there are.  Does the codex give a definite number t Reaper ships, and a definite to our own? 

#93
Ticonderoga117

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Father_Jerusalem wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Anyone want to answer the part where the reapers vastly outnumber the regular fleets?


Nope. They're going to keep on ignoring the facts in the hopes that we'll all eventually just stop, you know, paying attention to them.


Do we ever get a solid number? Or something in perspective like 100:1?

Anyway, numbers aren't always everything. Strategy, weapons, and guile are also important.

#94
G1MEE50K

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It's entirely possible, and I wish it was an option. "Artistic vision" Disagrees with us though.

#95
Father_Jerusalem

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movieguyabw wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Anyone want to answer the part where the reapers vastly outnumber the regular fleets?


Nope. They're going to keep on ignoring the facts in the hopes that we'll all eventually just stop, you know, paying attention to them.


Hey, don't get me wrong - I'd love to see the proof that Reaper ships vastly outnumber our own...  prove it, though.  Without, you know, relying on Sovereign's speech.

Count for me how many Reaper ships are in the cutscenes, vs how many of our ships there are.  Does the codex give a definite number t Reaper ships, and a definite to our own? 


Leviathan of Dis = 1 billion years old.
Reapers make at minimum one capital ship per cycle.
Each cycle is 50,000 years, give or take.
1 billion / 50,000 = 20,000
Adjusting for 10% losses over that time = 18,000
Supposing 5% Soverign class ships/95% Destroyers and other vessels = 900 Soverigns, 17,100 Destroyers.
Number of Dreadnoughts it takes to destroy one Soverign = 4
Number of total Dreadnoughts available in the galactic fleet = 150 (and that's being generous)
Number of Dreadnoughts needed to kill 900 Soverigns = 3600
3600 > 150

All of this can be found in various codices.

Math wins.

#96
Darksaberexile

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There's a simple reason a conventional victory is impossible from the standpoint of the refuse option:

You choose refuse after the Crucible is docked to the Citadel. This means that choosing to opt for a conventional victory is deciding to change strategy at the last possible moment of a battle that you've committed all of your forces to.

At best, you've lost a large number of ground forces to place someone on the Citadel, and numerous ships to get the Crucible in place. Additionally, are all of your allies going to stay your allies when you say "Okay, we're fighting conventionally" after they lose people and ships for the first strategy you proposed? They may start to think you're indoctrinated, or trying to weaken them to take control if victory is somehow achieved.

It would have to be decided from the beginning to pursue a conventional war, otherwise you're wasting resources you need to win on the Crucible, just to give the Reapers one more thing to shoot. This is why, in my opinion, it is impossible to win conventionally by choosing the "Refuse" ending.

#97
Applepie_Svk

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dreman9999 wrote...


Reaper+endless husk troop>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What ever we have now.


Yep but even with endless supply of ground troops they are limited by fleet trops until the end of cycl when they are refreshing their ranks.

#98
Dendio1

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Silhouett3 wrote...

Threads like these are doomed to end up pointless in this universe. My advice for you guys to go play something like Halo or anything that isn't Lovecraftian.

Just look at the Derelict Reaper. What's left of the species that was able to just shoot down a Reaper by a planetary cannon? So no, no conventional victory for you or any another cycle.

Reapers don't reveal their nature until invasions. They watch your progress and decide when is the perfect time according to their logic to put an end to you. They don't suffer from war fatigue, diseases, famine; don't have supply lines, don't lack communication at any rate. They are deceptive, older, smarter, harder, faster, patient, millions of years advanced then you. Like TIM figured out already, they could destroy all if wanted.

And it's not like we don't have threads for non-conventional ideas.


This and nice post

#99
ashwind

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*facepalm*

People are still only comparing number of ships and size of the guns.... god. I hope none of them are generals because I cringe to think of defense if such people are in charge of defense....

Modifié par ashwind, 30 juin 2012 - 06:25 .


#100
Ticonderoga117

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Darksaberexile wrote...

There's a simple reason a conventional victory is impossible from the standpoint of the refuse option:

You choose refuse after the Crucible is docked to the Citadel. This means that choosing to opt for a conventional victory is deciding to change strategy at the last possible moment of a battle that you've committed all of your forces to.

At best, you've lost a large number of ground forces to place someone on the Citadel, and numerous ships to get the Crucible in place. Additionally, are all of your allies going to stay your allies when you say "Okay, we're fighting conventionally" after they lose people and ships for the first strategy you proposed? They may start to think you're indoctrinated, or trying to weaken them to take control if victory is somehow achieved.

It would have to be decided from the beginning to pursue a conventional war, otherwise you're wasting resources you need to win on the Crucible, just to give the Reapers one more thing to shoot. This is why, in my opinion, it is impossible to win conventionally by choosing the "Refuse" ending.


This I can totally get behind, which totally makes me hate the Cruicible plot even more. *shrug* Oh well. Destroy it is.

ashwind wrote...
*facepalm*
People are still only
comparing number of ships and size of the guns.... god. I hope none of
them are generals because I cringe to think of national security if such
people are in charge of defense....


I'd take any one of them over the people who would say "We need to use this doo-dad that no one has ever built to beat an enemy. Oh, and this thing is going to take a ton of resources and is slower than my grandma in comparison to everything else." Yeah...

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 30 juin 2012 - 06:27 .