541 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

No, it's not.

did you read the codex entry that I linked to?

Did you ignore the multidue of npcs throughout the game telling you it's not?

[Silhouett3]

movieguyabw wrote...

TIM proves husks can be released from Reaper control on Sanctuary.

Wrong : What is proved in Sanctuary is that the signals that control Husks can be co-opted, as long as they remained in close proximity. On the other hand Cerberus could never block Reapers out, their man made Husks were also hearing Reapers voices all the time and that led to the attack. The same thing also led Paul Grayson to be lost Reapers. Unlike we meatbags Reapers showed perfect ability of real-time communication over very very long distances (from Dark Space for example) in games, novels and comics.

[Omega2079]

Killing Reapers is obvious. It's done in the games.

Problem is there are so many of them. It's attrition warfare.

[Jackums]

SNascimento wrote...

No, it's not.

[Rip504]

No. It states 4 dreadnoughts may be able of killing one Reaper. Thanix Cannons help,but not all ships are equipped with them.

So let's say 3 to be nice. Turians have 39 dreadnoughts,Salarians have 24,Asari have 24,and every other Citadel race has 8. Unless I am mistaken...  So that is around 100 dreadnoughts only counting Turians,Humans,Asari,&Salarians.  So they could take out around 33 Reapers. Still possible?

Edit: Also consider this is an one vs three scenario.
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Treaty_of_Farixen

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Turian

saracen16 wrote...
So, no, conventional victory is IMPOSSIBLE.

Modifié par Rip504, 30 juin 2012 - 08:56 .

[Chaoswind]

Are you people actually comparing the difference of technology of the organic races and the reapers, with Napoleon's Waterloo?

Like I said: the codex is mostly propaganda for the masses of the ME universe, and is more unreliable in ME3, than ever.

If the codex says a cruiser can match a reaper destroyer, yet in game a reaper destroyer takes the fire of several cruisers and doesn't go down, you have to call out the validity of the codex, specially when a single destroyer can soak the shots of a single dreadnought and not blow up (another codex entry, but one told by the more reliable source of human alliance soldiers).

To me every victory against the reapers in the codex is grossly exaggerated.

[Fireblader70]

Whilst conventional victory is theoretically possible, this cycle does not have the number of resources and preparation needed to do so. The codex entry only states that it is possible to kill Reapers, and therefore, theoretically possible to win conventionally. It is theoretical - we can't do it, but a cycle with the right preparation may be able to do so.

[new_bio]

If you can assign 1k coordinated ships to fight with one Reaper there is no way any Reaper can win. In this battle you can assign 10k ships to fight with each Reaper. There is no way, Reapers can win this fight. There is no other possibility.

[Helios969]

People are still confused about conventional versus unconventional warfare.

Conventional warfare is a form of warfare conducted by using conventional military weapons and battlefield tactics between two or more states in open confrontation. The forces on each side are well-defined, and fight using weapons that primarily target the opposing army. It is normally fought using conventional weapons, and not with chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons.

Unconventional warfare is a type of warfare employed to motivate an enemy to stop attacking or resisting even if it has the ability to continue. Failing this, a secondary objective can be to emasculate the enemy before a conventional attack.  Victory is acheived victory through acquiescence, capitulation, or clandestine support for one side of an existing conflict.
The war we have largely been fighting has been an unconventional one.  The Normandy, Shepard and his/her team are primarily using assymetric tactics.  EDI's cyberwarfare capabilities are nonconventional since Reaper-augmented A.I.'s are not standard on Alliance vessels.  Using a giant thresher maw to destroy a Reaper definitely fits into the realm of unconventional.  So is having Shepard lasing a target for orbiting ships.

The argument is not whether we can win conventionally, we cannot.  Our fleets cannot just stand toe-to-toe with the Reapers.  The question is whether we can employ other types of tactics to make the Reapers and Catalyst realize they cannot acheive what they came to accomplish...harvest and allow us to ascend to make way for the next cycle of life.  Given the sheer volume of the galaxy, you could essentially play hide and go seek indefinitely.
 

Modifié par Helios969, 30 juin 2012 - 10:40 .

[Chaoswind]

...

Let's do this:

Reapers
1.Don't sleep.
2.Are faster and more agile that all organic ships besides maybe frigates and fighters.
3.Have superior everything (weapons/armor/shields)
4.Don't consume fuel and have no need of supply lines.
5.Use enemy troops to replenish their numbers.
6.Have the numerical advantage.
7.Known everything about their enemy.

How are we supposed to win again?

86 dreadnoughts + what you get from the Quarians and Geth (minus the ones lost in battles before Earth) vs at the VERY least 200 capital ships + the destroyers (and they probably have much more than that).

Having proof that most codex entries are propaganda, you can guess that most if not all reaper defeats in the codex have been grossly exaggerated.

Taking all that into account, a war was impossible, the only choices are to hide in bunkers and wait for the **** storm to pass and not see you, or using the crucible, nothing else to do.

[Landge]

5th option:

If we are to believe the SC when he said he was the embodyment of all the reapers and that he also controls them. I would have the Normandy pick me up and deploy demolition squads to plant several nukes around the citadel/catalyst/crucible and blasting that SC/AI out of existence. Nuking the crucible, from the inside, effectively prevents it from firing it's beam causing the mass relay chain reaction.

Without that bratty snot-nose kid in control, the reaper forces would be in disarray making it easier for the allied forces to eventually defeat them over time.

[dragonflight288]

No necessarily. Each Reaper is still an AI, or multiple ones, in control of itself, able to make its own decisions and plot its own path. Sovereign did this. Harbinger did this with the collectors. Because they are so advanced as AI, their disorientation would last approximately half a second.

[dirty console peasant]

Cecilia L wrote...

The odds would be agianst a conventional victory. Luckily, you can fight like a Krogan and run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard. Shepard kicks the ass of impossible odds at a daily basis.

It would be a costly victory. They would probably have to abandon Earth to the Reapers and attack them where they are not that many. Find lone Reapers, or small groups of them and put all allied fire power to use against them. Fight dirty. Show those bastards that organics are more resourceful than they think.

I fully support doing this with choices like in the suicide mission where a "everyone lives" scenario would require ridiculous EMS or be impossible.

I think that the only way that we could possibly get this SM like mission is for an "everyone lives" scenario to be impossible, to keep in line with the theme of sacrifice set up through the game.  So a combination of Virmire and SM would be great, but only at 7000 EMS or possibly higher, possibly even somthing currently impossible like 8000 that could only be achieved by buying mid-game DLC.  They have given us a "complete ending" with a few hiccups.  However I would still like a variant of refuse, in which this cycle wins, conventionally.

[Chaoswind]

For the starchild AI to die you have to reprogram and or destroy all the reapers, he doesn't live in the citadel he is the reapers (pretty much)... Then again that is mostly speculation, but is hard to believe the star AI has been living in the citadel this whole time as that would invalidate the events of mass effect 1, I think he contected to the citadel with is a part of him, when the crucible docked and he analysed the possibilities of this new device.

[Dessalines]

Helios969 wrote...

People are still confused about conventional versus unconventional warfare.

Conventional warfare is a form of warfare conducted by using conventional military weapons and battlefield tactics between two or more states in open confrontation. The forces on each side are well-defined, and fight using weapons that primarily target the opposing army. It is normally fought using conventional weapons, and not with chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons.

Unconventional warfare is a type of warfare employed to motivate an enemy to stop attacking or resisting even if it has the ability to continue. Failing this, a secondary objective can be to emasculate the enemy before a conventional attack.  Victory is acheived victory through acquiescence, capitulation, or clandestine support for one side of an existing conflict.
The war we have largely been fighting has been an unconventional one.  The Normandy, Shepard and his/her team are primarily using assymetric tactics.  EDI's cyberwarfare capabilities are nonconventional since Reaper-augmented A.I.'s are not standard on Alliance vessels.  Using a giant thresher maw to destroy a Reaper definitely fits into the realm of unconventional.  So is having Shepard lasing a target for orbiting ships.

The argument is not whether we can win conventionally, we cannot.  Our fleets cannot just stand toe-to-toe with the Reapers.  The question is whether we can employ other types of tactics to make the Reapers and Catalyst realize they cannot acheive what they came to accomplish...harvest and allow us to ascend to make way for the next cycle of life.  Given the sheer volume of the galaxy, you could essentially play hide and go seek indefinitely.
 

It took them 1000 years to wipe out of the Protheans.  Since civilizations are set up by their designed, tnen they have the ultimate battle map.  They will bleed you slowly.

[dirty console peasant]

Nyoka wrote...

Conventional victory isn't possible in a movie-like "war" that is actually a single battle, which lasts a couple of minutes so you can watch it in a cutscene.

It is however possible if you leave it hinted. Meaning you win one battle on Earth (you can take into account assets and have squadmates dying and all that), everybody looks hopeful afterwards, and now that you know how to win the war, you get on the Normandy after saying there's still a lot to do, so that initial victory is a symbol of what's to come.

This, although maybe more than one battle, and I want to be able to control which fleet gets assigned where, therefore deciding who live and who dies, similar to SM, and Virmire.

[Turran]

No we couldn't.

We do not have any information through the game which indicates how many Reapers there actually are.

Alone you just need to add up the many we see on Earth and the other planets to realise that even the fleet (combined) which aimed to take back Earth would not stand a chance.
They can last thousands of years doing 'clean-up' on all planets to make sure there is little to no evidence left for future races. We wouldn't be able to last that long without resources, such as farms for crops and meat, mining stations for resources to build new ships.

Just think about it, there isn't a chance we would win. Yes we might take down a couple of hundred. But you just need to look back at ME1 where Sovy cuts through ships with ease, is able to make turns which seem impossible in space and literally just blast their way through a wall of defence.

Along with constantly being told it through the game by NPCs, even Javik says it failed for his people. Yes they were not united like we are. But our united force should technically match their single species empire with numbers and fleets.

[dirty console peasant]

Not every reaper is going to be at every battle, so we strike where they are weak, and when they send reinforcements, they weaken their other positions. Gurilla Warfare all the way. To the people calculating the number of reapers currently in existence, just think that there is no way that even with surprise the reapers ever had a cycle where they took no casualties, some cycles probably destroyed more reapers than could be replaced that cycle. (Derelict Reaper, Leviathan of Dis)

[weltraumhamster89]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

[*]Wrex might also be part of the Krogan Horde

Haha you mean the krogan horde consisting of about 10 krogan clones standing around in London, listening to Wrex' speech... <_<

[gmboy902]

There are thousands upon tens of thousands of Reapers. Each capital ship will take at least three ships to overcome. It is also worth noting that the codex entry only says that Alliance ships were widely equipped with Thanix cannons.

Storywise, the only acceptable ending for Refusal would be, if even with the highest EMS score possible, Shepard and the Normandy and the entire squad were killed. Because otherwise, there's no reason to choose the other options.

[Izhalezan]

The reapers have at minimum 740 ships, they still outnumber us too greatly, even with these discovered weaknesses.

[RiotLaFontaine]

Love how some players choose to ignore the galaxy map screen (that is, every system locked down and loaded with an overwhelming number of Reaper forces) after the assault on the cerberus base and prior to heading to Earth.

[Annihilator27]

You want your Conventional victory? Pick Refusal lol.

Modifié par annihilator27, 30 juin 2012 - 04:06 .

[dirty console peasant]

RiotLaFontaine wrote...

Love how some players choose to ignore the galaxy map screen (that is, every system locked down and loaded with an overwhelming number of Reaper forces) after the assault on the cerberus base and prior to heading to Earth.

They are not locked down, there is simply no reason in game to go there.  You could previously go to systems with reapers in them and outrun them.