541 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

savionen wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

savionen wrote...

According
to the codex Alliance ships can outmaneuver the Reapers in space. This
basically means that the Alliance ships are much more evasive, why do
they sit around and just get shot in every CG movie?

.
Because you can't put everything you want in the cutscenes.
.
That said, when you take Earth with a high EMS you can see a cruiser dodging a reaper bean. 

Point is that it's inconsistent. Alliance ships are superior in evasive maneuvers and hit-and-run tactics. Reaper ships are faster from Point A to Point B, but turn very slowly meaning in any actual dogfight the Alliance ships are superior. Several smaller Alliance ships should easily be able to dog bigger Reapers. The lore of the game is inconsistent with what actually happens, but that's pretty much ME3 in a nutshell.

Launching those probes that came after Normandy at end of ME2 would remove all maneuverability advantage.

[shodiswe]

ArchDuck wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

And what was the final result of the Battle of Palaven? Reapers won, Turians lost... even with all their sacrifices, Krogan support and the biggest fleet in the galaxy.

I am not disputing the overall result, but I am disputing the claim of Reapers = invincible. They have been proven to be difficult to take down but they can be reliably and regularly taken down by certain weapons and tactics.

A single reapre woudln't be invincible, a group of citadel  dread naights could take it down, however a singel reaepr dreadnaught can easily kill a citadel dreadnaught with one shot.

And apparently the reapers got more dreadnaughts around earth than teh allied forces had dread anughts... there is no way they can kill all those reaper dreadnaughts before depleting their forces, and even if they manged to kill them all and the have 10% of the citadel forces left with novelty tachtics and the element of surprise, there would be an even alrger force of reapers in the rest of the galaxy thoguh... You could at best beat a reaper or win a battle but you can't win the war. That's the point, you can't win the war.

Modifié par shodiswe, 30 juin 2012 - 07:12 .

[Tiggerous]

I apologize if someone said this already, but we can't assume every cycle produces a reaper capital ship. The prothean reaper failed.

[Father_Jerusalem]

J.Random wrote...

I see a conventional victory possibility in destroying a Citadel either by means of full united fleet all-out attack on it or by Shepard finding and overloading Citadel mass effect core (if he wouldn't be such a whimp after his heroic refusal speech, staying and doing nothing). No Citadel - no Space Sucker - no reapers' collective conciousness - no tactics. And numbers without tactics mean nothing.

xsdob wrote...

Anyone want to answer the part where the reapers vastly outnumber the regular fleets?

I'll try. Your math is wrong. You assume that their numbers increased with every cycle. My guess - their numbers are decreasing with every cycle because every cycle kills more reapers than may be created from "ascended". If the cycle fights until the last man standing, then reapers can't even reinforce themselves.

And now you're just making things up. We assume that their numbers increased every cycle because they did. Every cycle before now they've been able to use the Citadel to pop in unannounced, slaughter everything, and leave. And we're being ABSOLUTELY generous beyond any reasonable standard granting only 1 Reaper ship created per cycle, and granting heavier losses than is remotely reasonable and they STILL outnumber the entire galactic alliance in this cycle.

Math says you're wrong. You don't get to say "nuh uh!" just because you want to.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Tiggerous wrote...

I apologize if someone said this already, but we can't assume every cycle produces a reaper capital ship. The prothean reaper failed.

I'm granting that 10% of cycles create a Soverign class ship. And that's being generous BEYOND any amount of reason.

[Gorkan86]

Let's compare the loss of the reapers with losses of galactic fleet ... somebody knows the number of destroyed ships?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So you guys are still looking for a reason to be able to go full retard, use refuse, and win?

Sovereign pulled a maneuver in ME1 that would have torn an Alliance cruiser in half, and that was a reaper capital ship.

1) out manuevered
2) out gunned
3) manufacturing base destroyed so we can't build replacements during wartime.
4) reapers make troops out of ours.

The time to defeat them conventionally is to use the Citadel relay and hit them while they're in Dark Space hibernating, and blow that relay.

[Thaa_solon]

Build lots of CAIN's

Reapers are f***'ed

[Qeylis]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So you guys are still looking for a reason to be able to go full retard, use refuse, and win?

Sovereign pulled a maneuver in ME1 that would have torn an Alliance cruiser in half, and that was a reaper capital ship.

1) out manuevered
2) out gunned
3) manufacturing base destroyed so we can't build replacements during wartime.
4) reapers make troops out of ours.

The time to defeat them conventionally is to use the Citadel relay and hit them while they're in Dark Space hibernating, and blow that relay.

Thats an excellent idea.  They didn't do that though.  So, the question is can the Reapers be beaten in a conventional war.  The OP's codex link shows that the answer is yes.  Regardless of anything that Hackett said, or anyone for that matter, the codex says they can be beaten.  Therefore, they can.

I've been saying they can for a long time, but I didn't know about this codex entry.  It doesn't matter what we saw, appearently, other Reapers were dying in other parts of the galaxy (accorging to the Codex.)  See, thats the problem with thinking that your enemy is godlike.  You fail to fight them properly, and they win because of it.  They weren't gods.

[Mfinn3333]

Didn't an M-90 take out one of the small reaper's?

[Gorkan86]

It seems no one considers that in addition to the huge capital ships they have smaller ships. At the level of fighter-class for example.
Remember the passing through the Omega-4 relay? After arriving to the collectors system Normandy was attacked by two Eye-bot like fighters, the same fighters we see in the Earth space battle.
They can cause tremendous damage. They are vulnerable, but do their job perfectly.

[ArchDuck]

Just some thing I realized.

It is possible. Anyone that says otherwise is confusing terms.

It is possible, not probable but possible. So to state again, it is not impossible to win it is just improbable.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Mfinn3333 wrote...

Didn't an M-90 take out one of the small reaper's?

Thaa_solon wrote...

Build lots of CAIN's

Reapers are f***'ed

*headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks*

[build319]

The main problem with this argument is simply in the numbers and that organics are more fallible than the Reapers. After you watch all your friends in the ship next to you get demolished. You lose some of you cognitive skills.

The organic element and the fact we are driven by emotions is our greatest weakness.

The longer this continues; the weaker we become.

The reapers not only win through brute force and shock. They win through attrition.

[Gorkan86]

If this is possible, why Admiral Hackett does not think so?

[savionen]

Mfinn3333 wrote...

Didn't an M-90 take out one of the small reaper's?

Yep. You'd think they'd arm tons of ground troops with them, or do something as simple as attach them to fighters or smaller fast ships. Not like it would make taking out capital ships easy, but Cains can supposedly destroy Hades cannons and destroyers I believe.

Gorkan86 wrote...

It seems no one considers that in
addition to the huge capital ships they have smaller ships. At the level
of fighter-class for example. Remember the passing through the
Omega-4 relay? After arriving to the collectors system Normandy was
attacked by two Eye-bot like fighters, the same fighters we see in the
Earth space battle.
They can cause tremendous damage. They are vulnerable, but do their job perfectly.

True, but there still seems like there'd be some sort of counter. Reapers don't use any sort of missile-based weapons at all, but the Alliance does. The actual knowledge of speed/capability of these Occuli is limited, but we do know they're easy to destroy and cause considerable damage with ease. The Alliance ships could potentially use short ranged guided missiles, EMP bombs or something else. It's just not really explored at all.

Modifié par savionen, 30 juin 2012 - 08:36 .

[Arturia Pendragon]

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

  This is the 
Oculus[/b] 
http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Oculus 


This make any assumtion of conventional victory bunk.
Why?
Because the reapers can make an endless ammount of them and they can dive into our strongest ships and destroy them form the inside out.
The reapers have been using this and much of there husk forces to wipe the floor with us.
Get it that unlimited forces will alway trump limited forces.

And I stopped a swarm of them with literally no casualties.

And I destroyed one on-foot in ME2....with bullets.

[Qeylis]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Mfinn3333 wrote...

Didn't an M-90 take out one of the small reaper's?

Thaa_solon wrote...

Build lots of CAIN's

Reapers are f***'ed

*headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks*

Yes, small, we know.  Did you see the word "small" in the quote?  So, if we can do that, then, say 4 Alliance Destroyers to kill one Reaper Destroyer.  Our fleet outnumbered theirs by a massive amount.

Oh well, please continue with the the headdesking.

[Qeylis]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

  This is the 
Oculus[/b] 
http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Oculus 


This make any assumtion of conventional victory bunk.
Why?
Because the reapers can make an endless ammount of them and they can dive into our strongest ships and destroy them form the inside out.
The reapers have been using this and much of there husk forces to wipe the floor with us.
Get it that unlimited forces will alway trump limited forces.

And I stopped a swarm of them with literally no casualties.

And I destroyed one on-foot in ME2....with bullets.

ROFL!!!  Yup, with bullets.  Imagine what a fighters guns will do.  Over before it even starts.  Oh, we don't have to imagine, we saw it in the space battle sequence.  Maybe dremen was joking...

[Father_Jerusalem]

Qeylis wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Mfinn3333 wrote...

Didn't an M-90 take out one of the small reaper's?

Thaa_solon wrote...

Build lots of CAIN's

Reapers are f***'ed

*headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks*

Yes, small, we know.  Did you see the word "small" in the quote?  So, if we can do that, then, say 4 Alliance Destroyers to kill one Reaper Destroyer.  Our fleet outnumbered theirs by a massive amount.

Oh well, please continue with the the headdesking.

**headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks* *headdesks*

[FellishBeast]

Don't bother with Saracen. He chose synthesis, lol.

[savionen]

What's wrong with sticking Cains on fighters? It can be held by one person on foot. Assuming Cains could be mass produced couldn't a fighter potentially have 5-20 shots with Cain(s)?

If Cains cannot destroy anything larger than a Hades Cannon, give them to tons of ground troops, and they could take out Reaper ground forces with ease, forcing larger Reapers to land.

Modifié par savionen, 30 juin 2012 - 08:50 .

[Gorkan86]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...
And I destroyed one on-foot in ME2....with bullets.

Also you can destroy the reaper with thresher maw.  Now we need a gun shooting thresher maws.

Modifié par Gorkan86, 30 juin 2012 - 09:01 .

[Qeylis]

savionen wrote...

What's wrong with sticking Cains on fighters? It can be held by one person on foot. Assuming Cains could be mass produced couldn't a fighter potentially have 5-20 shots with Cain(s)?

If Cains cannot destroy anything larger than a Hades Cannon, give them to tons of ground troops, and they could take out Reaper ground forces with ease, forcing larger Reapers to land.

I think the assumption is that since we failed to prepare, we don't have very many Cains.  So, we don't put them on fighters, because they are more effective with ground forces.

Remember, they destroyed most of our ability to produce new weapons.  We basically finish the war with the weapons that we started it with.  And that is more than enough to beat them conventionally.

[Emphyr]

Hi
3 days old topic with a BW dev participating in also is here->
Some very good postings in it! (20 pages long so it takes time to read but definatly really good postings in it!

http://social.biowar...12812916-1.html