565 réponses à ce sujet

[nicocap24]

Nyoka wrote...

Perfect, organics versus synthetics will never fight again because there aren't organics or synthetics anymore. Instead, we will have wars between *these* green hybrids and *those* green hybrids now. Totally worth it!

If it stops a cycle of galactic extinction, I'd say yeah, it's worth it. Besides, there's ALWAYS gonna be war, no matter what you do. The point here is to stop the supposed conflict between organics and synthetics so that the stupid catalyst will calm down and stop killing everyone.

[TheBlackBaron]

The Angry One wrote...

Capitulating to the enemy is not winning anything, you've effectively handed control of the galaxy to the Catalyst after spending months fighting it for it. Pat yourself on the back I guess.

Destroying the Catalyst is not capitulating to it. Nor is replacing it, arguably, although I dislike Control's implications. Only Synthesis is outright following what it would like to do.

And as you seem happy to pat yourself on the back for deciding that trillions of people in the galaxy aren't worthy of surviving if it means Shepard gets her way, I'll quite happily pat myself on the back. 

I am saying it is a possibility, because they are being directly controlled.
One minute they're harvesting, then in control, they're rebuilding. One of those at least is against their will.

Given what the process of "ascension" likely entails, it's far more likely that becoming Team Shepard, Galactic Police is "against their will" than following the cycle. 

Fleets without upgraded defences and thanix cannons. BioWare ignore all of this to push the idea that Reapers are unstoppable, meanwhile in the codex, several capital ships are annihilated with proper tactics by the Turians alone.

Those tactics are then instantly accounted for and countered, resulting in severe damage to the Turian fleet and the forcing of them into a war of attrition around Palaven...which they are losing, and after Tuchanka, losing slightly less quickly. 

I quote:

Knowing that the Reapers' weapons had a longer effective range than any of his own, Coronati made a short, daring FTL jump--landing his dreadnoughts in the middle of the Reaper fleet. The dreadnoughts then turned to line up their main guns on the Reapers, which also needed to turn to fire on the turians. This ploy used the Reapers' size against them--because they could turn faster, and their concentrated firepower downed several Reaper capital ships.

The Reapers countered instantly. Their destroyers performed a jump of their own to the skies above Palaven, beginning orbital strikes of turian cities. The turians, forced to defend the planet, found themselves in a pitched battle far from the relay, from which emerged a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships. After massive casualties, Coronati ordered retreat.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 30 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[MisterJB]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...
"But you killed the rest."

"We preserved them in Reaper form" [/quote]

"We leave younger species alone."
"But you killed the rest."
The rest here is referring the spacefaring species which were preserved. The Catalyst never claimed it doens't kill organics, only that it doesn't cause their extinction.

[quote] The Zha'til.[/quote]
Source?

[quote]The Quarians (in some playthroughs, indirectly, though their intention was direct in any case)[/quote]
Indirectly? The quarians brought their extinction on themselves.
And it could have ordered the geth to attack armed vessels which just so happened to be all of them. Still, it is true that the geth pursed fleeing ships.

[quote] It claims that without Reapers, synthetics will destroy all organics. Statement of fact.
It later reveals that this never happened, never came close to happening and it only started the cycle because of never ending conflict. Conflict does not equal extinction. It lied.[/quote]
If the Catalyst witnessed these conflicts lead into organic extinction countless times like the quarians in ME3 if Shepard can't persuade them to stand down, it does not need to witness ALL organic life to be extinguished to reach the conclusion that organics and synthetics will always fight and the organics will always lose.


[quote]Which are ALL now part synthetic. All with the same green circuit pattern and green eyes. Uniformity.[/quote]
No more uniformity than all races having eyes, arms and proteins.

[quote]Nothing is "inevitable". It might be the path for some, not others. Synthesis imposes it on everyone.
Again, becoming like the Reapers is one path of many. Synthesis forces this path on all.[/quote]
Synthetic upgrades are not a path. Simply the means to follow actual paths. Everyone can still be what they wish to be, they will simply be better at it.
Those who choose to not be upgraded will be left behind and considered second class humans. Ultimately, these synthetic upgrades can favor the race as a whole and I believe this takes precedence over individual rights or freedoms.

[quote]
EDI directly implies all life is heading to homogenity with that line. Appearances are irrelevant, their thoughts and behaviours will align into one grand soup of nothing.[/quote]
Nothing implies that. What forms a culture are toughts and behaviours and each alien culture still remains quite unique in the epilogue.
It's possible to adopt certain characteristics of other cultures without losing your uniqueness. In fact, her line about how we may trascend mortality suggests progress in the medical field, not organics adopting the consensus for instance.

[quote]
I think talking exactly like a Reaper qualifies as suspicious.[/quote]
I disagree. I tought the idea of our culture and technology advancing to a point where even an AI can't truly understand sounds quite hopeful to me.

[quote]They are walking graves for billions, those billions deserve to rest.[/quote]
They are a lifeform as worthy of existing as humans or turians.
And, like I said before, rest can only happy in life.

[quote]
Friendly civi... they are dead! They were melted into goo! They're used as the brains for giant killbots![/quote]
And those brains have survived and formed a different life form which deserves to live.
 
[quote]
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, as long as it's done by choice.[/quote]
I question wheter we have a choice in the use of technology.
I can choose not to be upgraded or, in more mundane terms, not have a computer. But that will negatively affect both my social and professional life.


[quote]
If nobody is forced, then universal peace is impossible. There will be conflict, between people, between machines. The only way to guarantee there won't is if you force it.
By the single fact that everlasting peace is somehow assured. People, individuals, don't work that way.[/quote]

The Catalyst never promised everlasting universal peace with Synthesis. In fact, if asked that question directly, it does not answer. All it said was that it believed this to be the best option to solve the organic -synthetic conflict.
That peace we must build ourselves with the means we have been given, technology and knowledge.

The Synthesis ending is utopic in nature, yes. But so are ParagonDestroy and ParagonControl.

[quote]
How many did Stalin and Mao kill in the name of "progress"?[/quote]
Synthesis doesn't kill and Stalin and Mao are not the only iconic figures that attempted to bring progress to their people.

[quote]nor do I think it will solve all problems by itself, but rather through careful application.
[/quote]
We can agree on this, at least.

[Rane7685]

Nyoka wrote...

Perfect, organics versus synthetics will never fight again because there aren't organics or synthetics anymore. Instead, we will have wars between *these* green hybrids and *those* green hybrids now. Totally worth it!

Perhaps not but the point is that regardless of who the victor is neither organics nor synthetics can ever be completely eradicated. It is a potential solution that the game permits you to reject in favour of 3 other alternatives

Modifié par Rane7685, 30 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[TheBlackBaron]

I should also point out the plan only worked because Coronati had accurate information on the Reapers range and fleet composition and knowledge of their exact location, and was able to catch them when they were most vulnerable (e.g. right after coming out of a relay jump). Those are not advantges than can be reliably counted on to exist.

[The Angry One]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Destroying the Catalyst is not capitulating to it. Nor is replacing it, arguably, although I dislike Control's implications. Only Synthesis is outright following what it would like to do.

You can destroy the Catalyst because it allows you to, because it reflects it's agenda.
Let me ask you this, if it allows you to destroy it, why can't it be convinced to stand down and allow peace between organics and synthetics like it was designed to?

And as you seem happy to pat yourself on the back for deciding that trillions of people in the galaxy aren't worthy of surviving if it means Shepard gets her way, I'll quite happily pat myself on the back.

I like how you keep making Shepard responsible for this.
I mean it's not like the Catalyst is the one going "SO BE IT" then trying to kill everyone because Shepard dares question it's broken logic and ridiculous solutions.

Given what the process of "ascension" likely entails, it's far more likely that becoming Team Shepard, Galactic Police is "against their will" than following the cycle.

We don't know for sure though, how would you like to have the power to have thoughts beyond all imagination and be forced to perpetually murder entire civilisations for no good reason?

Those tactics are then instantly accounted for and countered, resulting in severe damage to the Turian fleet and the forcing of them into a war of attrition around Palaven...which they are losing, and after Tuchanka, losing slightly less quickly.

They were not countered directly, the Reapers simply ran away and hit Palaven directly, forcing the Turians to go on the defensive.

[Joe Del Toro]

Guess who's back,
Back again.
Angry's back,
Tell a friend.

[Thalador]

I didn't get one thing in the refusal ending. The Catalyst shuts off the connection between the Crucible and the Citadel, but the Crucible still remains a power source, meaning it still contains an insane amount of energy. Now, why doesn't Shepard contact Hackett, tell him the Crucible is a no go and to blow it up, destroying the Citadel (and maybe Earth, too) in the process, which is by mere chance the home of the Catalyst. With the Catalyst dead, maybe the Reapers could think on their own again, reconsider and come to a new conclusion - or not, but be baffled enough to become basically paralyzed for some time, giving the fleet more time to blow some up.

If BW really cared, refusal should have had a "victory" scenario too with the proper amount of EMS (~8000 <- buy moar DLC to get that amount... hell, EA would've loved that mentality). However, it would have still been a sour ending. Like Hackett dies, Primarch Victus dies, countless more die in the prolonged war, maybe even some of your squadmates, as well, but you could've won without bowing to the Reaper god and accepting to end the conflict on his terms.

I still really like Destroy followed by Control. They've become rather good (although I felt that Destroy was really nerfed down to give a chance for Walters' synthesis), but Refusal was very neglected. And I'm never going to believe Gamble's word on the next cycle using the Crucible anyways. Liara's time capsule tells them the Crucible didn't even work. In my headcannon, when the Reapers returned 50,000 years later through the Citadel relay, they were blown to smithereens by the combined might of an entire, advanced and informed (thanks to Liara's time capsule) galaxy.

Modifié par Thalador, 30 juin 2012 - 10:58 .

[Joe Del Toro]

In attempting to flesh out the Catalyst some, Bioware made the little bastard incredibly stupid. Like even moreso. I still can't get over how he goes 'Synthesis is not something to be forced' then immediately follows with 'But you can totes force it if you want Shep.'

Another example is when he says the Created will always rebel. Shepard wisely then asks it 'But you were Created?' to which he responds 'Uh yeah' like it ain't no thang. He's either a VI that had 'Stupid_tyrant.exe' installed or he's just a ******.

[Grand Wazoo]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

In attempting to flesh out the Catalyst some, Bioware made the little bastard incredibly stupid. Like even moreso. I still can't get over how he goes 'Synthesis is not something to be forced' then immediately follows with 'But you can totes force it if you want Shep.'

Another example is when he says the Created will always rebel. Shepard wisely then asks it 'But you were Created?' to which he responds 'Uh yeah' like it ain't no thang. He's either a VI that had 'Stupid_tyrant.exe' installed or he's just a ******.

And what about his fire-analogy? Oh man....

[TheBlackBaron]

The Angry One wrote...

You can destroy the Catalyst because it allows you to, because it reflects it's agenda.
Let me ask you this, if it allows you to destroy it, why can't it be convinced to stand down and allow peace between organics and synthetics like it was designed to?

Likely somewhere along the line from its original programming to "hey guys, let's kill them to save them" (incidentally, this is the exact logic you're using to justify Reject) something went out of whack. Destroy is within its design parameters. Standing down is not.

I like how you keep making Shepard responsible for this.
I mean it's not like the Catalyst is the one going "SO BE IT" then trying to kill everyone because Shepard dares question it's broken logic and ridiculous solutions.

SHEPARD IS ****ING HANDED THE ABILITY TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING ON A SILVER PLATTER.

Don't even ****ing try and dodge responsibility for that. It's insulting, and in every nation in the world, knowingly allowing a crime to occur through inaction is also a crime. If you want to pick Reject, own the damn consequences. 

We don't know for sure though, how would you like to have the power to have thoughts beyond all imagination and be forced to perpetually murder entire civilisations for no good reason?

If I were a Reaper, a) my entire purpose is to harvest civilizations, and I believe I have a good reason...so I'd probably quite like it.

As a human being I wouldn't, that's for sure, but being a Reaper changes the parameters.

They were not countered directly, the Reapers simply ran away and hit Palaven directly, forcing the Turians to go on the defensive.

Addressed in a post above.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 30 juin 2012 - 11:05 .

[The Angry One]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

The rest here is referring the spacefaring species which were preserved. The Catalyst never claimed it doens't kill organics, only that it doesn't cause their extinction.[/quote]

And then it says "We helped them ascend". Not some of them, all of them. Not forced, helped.
It lies.

[quote]Source?
[/quote]The Reapers took control of the Zha'til and made them overtake the Zha, effectively killing them. Count 1.
The Reapers then forced the monsters they created to attack the Protheans, forcing the Protheans to blow up their sun. Count 2, indirectly.

As told by Javik on the Geth dreadnought.

[quote]Indirectly? The quarians brought their extinction on themselves.
And it could have ordered the geth to attack armed vessels which just so happened to be all of them. Still, it is true that the geth pursed fleeing ships.[/quote]

If the Reapers had not taken control of the Geth, then the Quarians would've exterminated the Geth.
The Reapers interfered and placed the Quarians in danger.

[quote] If the Catalyst witnessed these conflicts lead into organic extinction countless times like the quarians in ME3 if Shepard can't persuade them to stand down, it does not need to witness ALL organic life to be extinguished to reach the conclusion that organics and synthetics will always fight and the organics will always lose.[/quote]

Except organics don't always lose. See above. See the Zha'til. See the Metacon war. See that the Reaper's creators were powerful enough to create the Reapers in the first place, and attempt to use them for peace instead of winning any wars.

[quote]No more uniformity than all races having eyes, arms and proteins.[/quote]

All the same, all in common. Sounds like uniformity to me.

[quote]Synthetic upgrades are not a path. Simply the means to follow actual paths. Everyone can still be what they wish to be, they will simply be better at it.[/quote]

As long as they're a Reaper.

[quote]Those who choose to not be upgraded will be left behind and considered second class humans. Ultimately, these synthetic upgrades can favor the race as a whole and I believe this takes precedence over individual rights or freedoms.[/quote]

Who can choose? Nobody can choose! That's the whole point.
Also, are you seriously, seriously promoting the idea that those who don't upgrade/organics should be treated as lower class? Guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[quote]Nothing implies that. What forms a culture are toughts and behaviours and each alien culture still remains quite unique in the epilogue.
It's possible to adopt certain characteristics of other cultures without losing your uniqueness. In fact, her line about how we may trascend mortality suggests progress in the medical field, not organics adopting the consensus for instance.[/quote]

You can't have it both ways. You can't have everyone "transcend thought" and still be individuals with individual cultures.

[quote]I disagree. I tought the idea of our culture and technology advancing to a point where even an AI can't truly understand sounds quite hopeful to me.[/quote]

Never would I think to see the day when people would call Reaper philosophy hopeful.

[quote]They are a lifeform as worthy of existing as humans or turians.
And, like I said before, rest can only happy in life.[/quote]

Turians were not made with billions of people melted into goo while screaming for mercy.

[quote]And those brains have survived and formed a different life form which deserves to live.[/quote]

Why? Because you say so? Maintaining their existence is a complete mockery of life.
Especially in this manner.
 
[quote]I question wheter we have a choice in the use of technology.
I can choose not to be upgraded or, in more mundane terms, not have a computer. But that will negatively affect both my social and professional life.[/quote]

The same way people choose not to drive cars, or use computers, or watch TV.
What's good for you is not good for everyone else.


[quote]The Catalyst never promised everlasting universal peace with Synthesis. In fact, if asked that question directly, it does not answer. All it said was that it believed this to be the best option to solve the organic -synthetic conflict.
That peace we must build ourselves with the means we have been given, technology and knowledge.[/quote]

That can be achieved without synthesis. It is unecesarry.

[quote]The Synthesis ending is utopic in nature, yes. But so are ParagonDestroy and ParagonControl.[/quote]

Control is autocratic, synthesis is a false utopia.

[quote]Synthesis doesn't kill and Stalin and Mao are not the only iconic figures that attempted to bring progress to their people.[/quote]

My point is that progress for progress' sake alone gets you nowhere.
Also, synthesis kills all organic and synthetic life, permanently. Replacing them with a new life form.

[quote]We can agree on this, at least.[/quote]

Then how can you support forcing synthesis? Even the Catalyst says it can't be forced.. yet it can?

[Aslanasadi]

I believe the Catalyst is a deceptive manipulator and lier. I don't trust it in the old endings nor in the EC. He's evil, holier-than-thou, a hypocrite and really makes my stomach turn

[Joe Del Toro]

Grand Wazoo wrote...

And what about his fire-analogy? Oh man....

"When you pour milk into Rice Krispies, do you call the snap, crackle and pop conflict? It is what it is meant to do. I call it a delicious nutritionally balanced breakfast." - A better line than the goddamn fire analogy.

[The Angry One]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Likely somewhere along the line from its original programming to "hey guys, let's kill them to save them" (incidentally, this is the exact logic you're using to justify Reject) something went out of whack. Destroy is within its design parameters. Standing down is not.

My only logic with reject is that the galaxy is fighting for it's freedom from the Reapers, not to gleefully submit to them.

SHEPARD IS ****ING HANDED THE ABILITY TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING ON A SILVER PLATTER.

Don't even ****ing try and dodge responsibility for that. It's insulting. If you want to pick Reject, own the damn consequences.

Don't get angsty with me because I poked a hole in your logic, you're beginning to sound like the Catalyst.
No. This is on the Catalyst's shoulders. It is the psychopath that decides to murder everyone if Shepard refuses to buy into it's BS. It is the one who puts up death camps and watches people suffer and die in the name of it's agenda.
It is. Do not yell at me because I call out the war criminal in the room.

If I were a Reaper, a) my entire purpose is to harvest civilizations, and I believe I have a good reason...so I'd probably quite like it.

As a human being I wouldn't, that's for sure, but being a Reaper changes the parameters.

The Reapers are being controlled, you don't know what their parameters are.

Addressed in a post above.

Not addressed at all. The Reapers had somewhere to go at Palaven, and the Turians were fighting to defend the planet.
This is a fight to save the galaxy, all bets are off.

[nicocap24]

The Angry One wrote...

Don't get angsty with me because I poked a hole in your logic, you're beginning to sound like the Catalyst.
No. This is on the Catalyst's shoulders. It is the psychopath that decides to murder everyone if Shepard refuses to buy into it's BS. It is the one who puts up death camps and watches people suffer and die in the name of it's agenda.
It is. Do not yell at me because I call out the war criminal in the room.

Oh, for the love of God. Yes, the catalyst is the criminal. You have the chance to stop him, and you decide not to. Instead, you let everyone die because you suppose that they wouldn't have agreed to using the crucible, even though they spend the whole freaking game building it.

[Joe Del Toro]

nicocap24 wrote...

Oh, for the love of God. Yes, the catalyst is the criminal. You have the chance to stop him, and you decide not to. Instead, you let everyone die because you suppose that they wouldn't have agreed to using the crucible, even though they spend the whole freaking game building it.

Without knowing what it does.

[nicocap24]

Nyoka wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Perfect, organics versus synthetics will never fight again because there aren't organics or synthetics anymore. Instead, we will have wars between *these* green hybrids and *those* green hybrids now. Totally worth it!

If it stops a cycle of galactic extinction, I'd say yeah, it's worth it. Besides, there's ALWAYS gonna be war, no matter what you do. The point here is to stop the supposed conflict between organics and synthetics so that the stupid catalyst will calm down and stop killing everyone.

Except the problem is the reapers, not synthetics. They are responsible for the cycle. Synthetics are fine. There's no reason to involve them.

Ok, you don't like to kill the geth? Fine, choose control. Any choice is more justifiable than letting everyone die.

[nicocap24]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Oh, for the love of God. Yes, the catalyst is the criminal. You have the chance to stop him, and you decide not to. Instead, you let everyone die because you suppose that they wouldn't have agreed to using the crucible, even though they spend the whole freaking game building it.

Without knowing what it does.

Yes. It could have killed them all and they still went ahead and built it. Because they knew it was the only chance they would get to defeat the reapers.

[TheBlackBaron]

The Angry One wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Likely somewhere along the line from its original programming to "hey guys, let's kill them to save them" (incidentally, this is the exact logic you're using to justify Reject) something went out of whack. Destroy is within its design parameters. Standing down is not.

My only logic with reject is that the galaxy is fighting for it's freedom from the Reapers, not to gleefully submit to them.

No, your logic with Reject is that "because it's morally messy to use the Crucible, I'm going to kill them so they can be saved from the Reapers".  

Don't get angsty with me because I poked a hole in your logic, you're beginning to sound like the Catalyst.
No. This is on the Catalyst's shoulders. It is the psychopath that decides to murder everyone if Shepard refuses to buy into it's BS. It is the one who puts up death camps and watches people suffer and die in the name of it's agenda.
It is. Do not yell at me because I call out the war criminal in the room.

-You- are given the ability to save trillions of lives.

-You- choose to not use this ability.

-You- are responsible for their deaths, if not totally then it part.

-You- are at the very least an accomplice to a war criminal, and if I understand how the Hague handles such things, that makes -you- one yourself.

-You- apparently cannot accept that. So you wrap yourself in emotion, stick your head in the sand, and cry that anybody that says otherwise is "angsty".

I will damn well yell at you for that.

The Reapers are being controlled, you don't know what their parameters are.

Neither do you.

So again, little more than speculation and invented details supports the idea that the Reapers would stop fighting and make a conventional victory possible.

Not addressed at all. The Reapers had somewhere to go at Palaven, and the Turians were fighting to defend the planet.
This is a fight to save the galaxy, all bets are off.

*facepalm*

Those tactics only worked because of a unique set of circumstances that have not been duplicated.

Do try and actually read what I say.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 30 juin 2012 - 11:18 .

[Joe Del Toro]

nicocap24 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Oh, for the love of God. Yes, the catalyst is the criminal. You have the chance to stop him, and you decide not to. Instead, you let everyone die because you suppose that they wouldn't have agreed to using the crucible, even though they spend the whole freaking game building it.

Without knowing what it does.

Yes. It could have killed them all and they still went ahead and built it. Because they knew it was the only chance they would get to defeat the reapers.

Well, they didn't know that. Put it this way. Some people are trying to invade my home, so I spend hours trying to build a gun to fight them. When I've finished it, I'd be pretty pissed if an imp popped out and said 'Once you pull the trigger, you'll kill them, but your family dies too' and would throw the gun away and take my chances with a god damn baseball bat.

From every point of view, the Catalyst is stupid. From a gameplay view, you get punished for saying no even if you've spent the whole game getting full assets and the whole trilogy making beneficial decisions. From a story view, he's as ludicrous as my gun analogy above. And from a moral view, he's a little murdering assh*le who somehow makes you look like the bad guy for telling him to shove off.

God damn it I hate him.

[Persephone]

No.

I knew this thing was lying and manipulating even before the EC.

[Pride Demon]

The Angry One wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

It doesn't have a true voice. It is a program with a holographic interface. It doesn't have a body. I have no problem with the Catalyst looking like a child or speaking with any voice it wants to speak with.

It is a Reaper. It's true voice is that of a Reaper's.
Of course that voice is chosen and synthesized too, but it's one common to all of them.
Moreover, it only uses this voice in anger, in a moment where you can see it loses self-composure, furious that you reject it's choices. That's very telling.

To be more specific, it is not A reaper, it is THE reapers... As in, all of them.
But then again, it tells you so itself if you question it about its nature: if it is manipulating you, it is not doing that great of a job, since it spills the beans right away if you bother to listen to what it says...

The Angry One wrote...
Of course. He would seek to punish us. The problem is, the game lets him. Shepard just stands there and does nothing.

Well, considering everything, there is not much Shep could do in that situation, as the Crucible is deactivated and all that remains is the Space Battle against the reapers.
A single soldier badly hurt and on foot is not going to change much in that...
The most he/she could do is try and get extracted and/or try and get back to the battlefield on Earth, but then again not much of a difference considering how badly hurt Shep is by that point...

[maxulic]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

Oh, for the love of God. Yes, the catalyst is the criminal. You have the chance to stop him, and you decide not to. Instead, you let everyone die because you suppose that they wouldn't have agreed to using the crucible, even though they spend the whole freaking game building it.

Without knowing what it does.

It does save them. Period.

Shepard refusing to use the Crucible after all it took to get there is just slapping trillions of people in the face.

Modifié par maxulic, 30 juin 2012 - 11:42 .