565 réponses à ce sujet

[knightnblu]

The Catalyst is definitely the most manipulative/deceptive character in the ME universe. Who called for the leaders to enter the Reapers ships for a "peace" conference? Who put on a dead kid's skin to put Shepard at ease? Who thinks that he can command Shepard like he does his slaves (Wake up!)? Who has been slaughtering organics for millions of years?

The Catalyst doesn't respect Shepard nor does he admire him. He views him simply as a thorn in his side. If you have no respect for the person with whom you are speaking and you act to deceive and manipulate that person you are still a hostile in my book. Where once I used to select the Control option, I now select the Destroy option as a direct result of that treachery.

[v TricKy v]

dreamgazer wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Femlob wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

*shoot Catalyst*

"SO BE IT."

... and then he happens to revert back to the child's voice for 'the cycle continues". I see intent there. Even in the dialogue version of refusal, it feels like a knee-jerk, purpose-driven action to me.  But, again, to each his own.

Reject could've been spectacular. And if BioWare'll eat their words, it's the only ending that can still be improved to the point where it could become the kind of ending we should've had to begin with. They've lied about practically everything thus far, so it doesn't require a leap of faith to imagine they're lying about not wanting to change or add upon the endings as well. Who knows. It's the kind of hope against hope that sustains people in the face of a despicable truth, but it's not as if we have anything else to go on by this point.

I admit I'd still like to see that. Otherwise EMS was entirely f*cking pointless.

I don't think EMS was pointless (tech implementation, morale, etc. filter into it), but, if they wanted, I definitely feel like there's still room to move in the refusal ending's writing and somewhat open nature---given that we might be led to assume a thing or two that aren't entirely accurate.

its possible that there could be DLC which enhances the Refusal ending. Its completely relying on your imagination right now. You see Shepard for a few seconds, then Liaras beacon whichs says that the crucible didnt worked and then you see the new female(Asari???) stargazer who says that we made it possible for them to defeat the reapers without even fighting a war. Everything else is just pure speculation right now. Be it from me who likes the ending or others ones who hate it.

[Sousabird]

Why do you think I killed him?

[KotorEffect3]

Sousabird wrote...

Why do you think I killed him?

Killed who?

[mumwaldee369]

Can anyone tell me about their "take back Earth" moment?

[SamFlagg]

I don't have a problem with it, and actually the EC makes it more clear for which I'm happy.

But this is because of the options presented to me, destroy is the most promising.

From a narrative standpoint, having confirmed for me what I always believed about the catalyst (that this was just one last desperate gamble to avoid breaking the cycle) was great.

The other thing I'll note is the best decievers mix truth in with their lies.

[Bivo]

I just hate how we have to chose between a useless (and finally dumb) stand, and deal with the insane and deceptive piece of crap who designed the cannibals.

Besides, since it knows how that dumb kid from the intro looked like, it can only mean the Catalyst is visiting in Shepard's mind uninvited.

[Shadowvalker]

Well I still have a problem - I'll let the forlowing rewritten lyrics speak for me:

Who let the reapers out

(woof, woof, woof, woof)

(woof, woof, woof, woof)

(woof, woof, woof, woof)

(woof, woof, woof, woof)



Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)



(woof, woof, woof, woof)



When the party was nice, the party was jumpin' (Hey, Yippie, Yi, Yo)

And everybody havin' a ball (Hah, ho, Yippie Yi Yo)

I tell the fellas "start the name callin'" (Yippie Yi Yo)

And the girls report to the call

The poor reaper show down



Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)



I see ya' little speed boat head up our coast

She really want to skip town

Get back off me, beast off me

Get back you flea infested monger



Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)



I'm gonna tell {Hey, Yippie, Yi, Yo}

To any girls calling them alive {Yippie, Yi, Yo}

Tell the dummy "Hey Man, It's part of the Party!" {Yippie Yi, Yo}

You fetch a women in front and her reapers behind {Yippie, Yi, Yo}

Her bone runs out now



Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)



Say, A reaper is nuttin' if he don't have a bone All reapers hold ya' bone, all reapy hold it

A reaper is nuttin' if he don't have a bone All reapers hold ya' bone, all reapy hold it



Wait for y'all my reapers, the party is on

I gotta get my girl I got my myind on

Do you see the rays comin' from my eye

What could you be friend

That Benji man that's breakin' them down?

Me and My white short shorts

And I can't seek a lot, any reaper will do

I'm figurin' that's why they call me faithful

'Cause I'm the man of the land

When they see me they doah-ooooo(howl)



Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Who let the reapers out (woof, woof, woof, woof)

Modifié par Shadowvalker, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:13 .

[The Heretic of Time]

The Angry One wrote...

 I can't help but detest the notion that I must butcher every last innocent synthetic because the Catalyst proclaims it.

Don't blame the Catalyst, blame the folks who designed the Crucible. It's the Crucible that destroys all synthetic life if you shoot that pipe, not the Catalyst.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:13 .

[Almostfaceman]

Austin N wrote...

Angry One, why are you so angry?

If you'd care to actually read what they're saying, you wouldn't have to ask.

[Xilizhra]

The Angry One wrote...

.. the Catalyst being a deceptive manipulator?

Setting aside the exact nature of the functions of the WarCrime-O-Matic Crucible, let's look at the reject ending.
Specifically, "SO BE IT." Now, yes. We already know pretty much that it is a Reaper/Reaper intelligence/Harbinger/3rd Reaper from the right/whatever. However, it actually voicing itself that way provides a visceral insight into what it truly is.

The point is, why does it speak to you with the form and voice of a human child the rest of the time?
Sovereign and Harbinger were nothing if not frank in everything they said. This was in a way refreshing. They never pretended to be something they weren't (Collector General aside, it still used the same voice and manner of speech).
The Catalyst hides everything it is and everything it does behind a layer of deceit. It paints itself as something completely foreign to what it really is - an innocent child. This on top of it's sugar-coating of it's incredible crimes.

So I have to know, out of curiosity. Does this not bother you? Does it not leave a bad taste in your mouth knowing that when this being is challenged, it reverts to it's "true" voice? That it maintains a facade for as long as Shepard plays nice with it?

Nope, none. All this proves is that the Catalyst is smart enough to not go all death-voiced squid when trying to be diplomatic with Shepard.

[squee365]

I have no problem with it because I acknowledge that

1. He controls the reapers, therefore is bad and should be destroyed regardless.
2. He is a construct/AI - that is probably billion years old, AIs deteriorate, it explains why he's bonkers

Modifié par squee365, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:37 .

[incinerator950]

[Siansonea]

Catalyst is (facepalm), the main antagonist of the series, so yeah, I expect it to be a lying sack of sh¡t. Wearing the face and voice of Vent Boy is par for the course for a megalomaniacal homicidal artificial intelligence that can, apparently, read Shepard's mind. Else how did Catalyst know what form to emulate?

[Zero132132]

The Angry One wrote...

.. the Catalyst being a deceptive manipulator?

Setting aside the exact nature of the functions of the WarCrime-O-Matic Crucible, let's look at the reject ending.
Specifically, "SO BE IT." Now, yes. We already know pretty much that it is a Reaper/Reaper intelligence/Harbinger/3rd Reaper from the right/whatever. However, it actually voicing itself that way provides a visceral insight into what it truly is.

The point is, why does it speak to you with the form and voice of a human child the rest of the time?
Sovereign and Harbinger were nothing if not frank in everything they said. This was in a way refreshing. They never pretended to be something they weren't (Collector General aside, it still used the same voice and manner of speech).
The Catalyst hides everything it is and everything it does behind a layer of deceit. It paints itself as something completely foreign to what it really is - an innocent child. This on top of it's sugar-coating of it's incredible crimes.

So I have to know, out of curiosity. Does this not bother you? Does it not leave a bad taste in your mouth knowing that when this being is challenged, it reverts to it's "true" voice? That it maintains a facade for as long as Shepard plays nice with it?

Why would it? What series has an antagonist that never tries to be decietful?

If you operate on the premise that the genocidal king of the killbots is a good guy despite using a form of logic that ignores ethics and generally being... well, king of the killbots, then something's gone wrong.

I still don't think he's evil, just amoral. I don't even think he's wrong, exactly, he just can never understand that what he's doing is solving the literal problem posed rather than the actual problems, not noticing that he's the ultimate form of the problem he was supposed to solve because to him, "harvesting" and "killing" aren't the same, even if organics would disagree.

He isn't good. I don't think he's supposed to be good. Maybe before the EC he was, but post-EC, they make it pretty apparent that he's deranged. The line "they didn't approve, but it was the only way" makes it pretty apparent that he's... well, bad.

[Xilizhra]

Siansonea II wrote...

Catalyst is (facepalm), the main antagonist of the series, so yeah, I expect it to be a lying sack of sh¡t. Wearing the face and voice of Vent Boy is par for the course for a megalomaniacal homicidal artificial intelligence that can, apparently, read Shepard's mind. Else how did Catalyst know what form to emulate?

Initially antagonistic, but willing to compromise, it seems.