565 réponses à ce sujet

[Ridwan]

Nragedreaper wrote...

I get it, the end of ME3 is like Jonestown, there are those that drink the Kool-aid, those that run for their lives, and those gunning down the runners. I admit to thinking the little turd wants nothing more than for me to make his job easier. I don't have a problem with the choices...I have a problem with the fact that they wait 50,000 years and wipe out the galaxy wether there are synthetics or not. Per Javik the synthetics were defeated in his cycle before the reapers showed up. So WTF! I thought this whole reaper thing was about synthetics vs organics. So why bother the protheans?

Cause they (writers) forgot about it.

[Skyhawk02]

MOIST N FLUFFY wrote...

It doesn't bother me from a writing stand point, but as a participant in the ME universe I am concerned about the god-child's true nature. He/she/it clearly has an idea for how things should work and doesn't want that to be messed with. When he/she/it speaks about the creators he/she/it mentions their reluctance to become synthetic and it only leaves me to wonder if the reapers are slaves to an artificial malevolent intelligence (god child). That they were reluctant could be a serious understatement of what really happened and how these creators really felt.

Then choosing Control may be the best ending of all, finally freeing them from the Catalyst.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

 Intellectually, the endings still revolt me. However, they are now emotionally satisfying. Which means I can sidestep all the intellectual problems I have with it, like for example what the OP posted, and even be able to replay it again.

[Galiredon]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

What do you want him to do? Shoot the Reaper with his carnifex?

"Shepard to Hackett. The Crucible's a no-go. But the controller of the Reapers is here. Have your targetting VIs lock on my position and fire. Destroy the Presidium tower. It's been an honour, sir. Shepard out."

Then in your version of Shepard's story that IS what he said, that is what's so great about ambiguous endings, you can imagine that whatever you wanted to happen, DID happen.

You got that backwards. That's why ambiguous endings suck.

Was it ambiguous that Frodo destroyed the ring? No, it was very clear.

[Mr.House]

AlduinTheWorldNommer wrote...

Incorrect. Legion does try to kill Shepard if he choses to side with the Quarians. KILL.

This point is not up for debate, it is fact. Period. End of story. Do not argue otherwise.

If Legion wanted to kill Shepard, he would have snapped her neck when he had his hands on her neck. Why wait so long so Tali can attack?

[Skyhawk02]

Mr.House wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

What do you want him to do? Shoot the Reaper with his carnifex?

"Shepard to Hackett. The Crucible's a no-go. But the controller of the Reapers is here. Have your targetting VIs lock on my position and fire. Destroy the Presidium tower. It's been an honour, sir. Shepard out."

Then in your version of Shepard's story that IS what he said, that is what's so great about ambiguous endings, you can imagine that whatever you wanted to happen, DID happen.

Except the next cycle uses the cruible.

That has nothing to do with what I said, I didn't say anything about the next cycle.

[Skyhawk02]

Galiredon wrote...

You got that backwards. That's why ambiguous endings suck.

Was it ambiguous that Frodo destroyed the ring? No, it was very clear.

i didn't like the ending of Lord of the Rings, I thought it was cheesy.  At least the movie, I never read the books.

[nicocap24]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

MOIST N FLUFFY wrote...

It doesn't bother me from a writing stand point, but as a participant in the ME universe I am concerned about the god-child's true nature. He/she/it clearly has an idea for how things should work and doesn't want that to be messed with. When he/she/it speaks about the creators he/she/it mentions their reluctance to become synthetic and it only leaves me to wonder if the reapers are slaves to an artificial malevolent intelligence (god child). That they were reluctant could be a serious understatement of what really happened and how these creators really felt.

Then choosing Control may be the best ending of all, finally freeing them from the Catalyst.

I liked Control, but it creeps me out a bit. That new entity or whatever is not exactly Shepard. I don't trust it completely. If the Catalyst was corrupted the Catashep might be corrupted too.

[The Angry One]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And here come the insults. Dumb enough to refuse to do what the villain tells me to do?
Tell me, why did you defy Saren and Sovereign again?

One of the major points of the ending to ME3 is that Shepard was WRONG.  It takes a lot of guts to admit that you were wrong about something, but as we see with the ending to ME3, sometimes things turn out better if you accept your mistakes, and then change your position when you gain new information.  Sticking to your guns in the face of new conflicting information is not admirable.  This is just my interpretation of the ending.

That bothers me. What kind of story is it where the hero is wrong on this kind of level?
Was Luke wrong? Was Frodo wrong? You just don't do that, not in this way, not in this kind of series.

[AlduinTheWorldNommer]

Mr.House wrote...

AlduinTheWorldNommer wrote...

Incorrect. Legion does try to kill Shepard if he choses to side with the Quarians. KILL.

This point is not up for debate, it is fact. Period. End of story. Do not argue otherwise.

If Legion wanted to kill Shepard, he would have snapped her neck when he had his hands on her neck. Why wait so long so Tali can attack?

Bad-Writing

Again, it is not up for debate, he did try to kill Shepard, that was just meant to increase suspense.

It's pointless to debate otherwise.

Again, this point is not up for debate, it is fact. Period. End of story. Do not argue otherwise.

[Mr.House]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

nicocap24 wrote...

What do you want him to do? Shoot the Reaper with his carnifex?

"Shepard to Hackett. The Crucible's a no-go. But the controller of the Reapers is here. Have your targetting VIs lock on my position and fire. Destroy the Presidium tower. It's been an honour, sir. Shepard out."

Then in your version of Shepard's story that IS what he said, that is what's so great about ambiguous endings, you can imagine that whatever you wanted to happen, DID happen.

Except the next cycle uses the cruible.

That has nothing to do with what I said, I didn't say anything about the next cycle.

Because you have to be careful with what you headcanon so it does not contradict twhat the next cycle does, which has been comfirmed by Bioware.

[movieguyabw]

Nragedreaper wrote...

I get it, the end of ME3 is like Jonestown, there are those that drink the Kool-aid, those that run for their lives, and those gunning down the runners. I admit to thinking the little turd wants nothing more than for me to make his job easier. I don't have a problem with the choices...I have a problem with the fact that they wait 50,000 years and wipe out the galaxy wether there are synthetics or not. Per Javik the synthetics were defeated in his cycle before the reapers showed up. So WTF! I thought this whole reaper thing was about synthetics vs organics. So why bother the protheans?

Ya'know, I got the impression that Starbrat was just insane.  He's just a rogue AI that just gets in a genocidal mood every 50,000 years, and his excuse was he was originally programmed to *ahem* "Facilitate communications; and bring an end to hostilities" between organics and synthetics. 

[Galiredon]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And here come the insults. Dumb enough to refuse to do what the villain tells me to do?
Tell me, why did you defy Saren and Sovereign again?

One of the major points of the ending to ME3 is that Shepard was WRONG.  It takes a lot of guts to admit that you were wrong about something, but as we see with the ending to ME3, sometimes things turn out better if you accept your mistakes, and then change your position when you gain new information.  Sticking to your guns in the face of new conflicting information is not admirable.  This is just my interpretation of the ending.

What was Shepard wrong about?

[Zjarcal]

The Angry One wrote...
Does this not bother you?

No.

[AlduinTheWorldNommer]

The Angry One wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And here come the insults. Dumb enough to refuse to do what the villain tells me to do?
Tell me, why did you defy Saren and Sovereign again?

One of the major points of the ending to ME3 is that Shepard was WRONG.  It takes a lot of guts to admit that you were wrong about something, but as we see with the ending to ME3, sometimes things turn out better if you accept your mistakes, and then change your position when you gain new information.  Sticking to your guns in the face of new conflicting information is not admirable.  This is just my interpretation of the ending.

That bothers me. What kind of story is it where the hero is wrong on this kind of level?
Was Luke wrong? Was Frodo wrong? You just don't do that, not in this way, not in this kind of series.

Why not?

It seems you have a problem with it froma personal standpoint, rather than a literary one, from waht I've read lurking.

[The Angry One]

AlduinTheWorldNommer wrote...

Bad-Writing

Again, it is not up for debate, he did try to kill Shepard, that was just meant to increase suspense.

It's pointless to debate otherwise.

Again, this point is not up for debate, it is fact. Period. End of story. Do not argue otherwise.

Prove it.
Legion would never kill Shepard. It never tried. All it did was incapacitate Shepard to prevent her from interfering.

[Ridwan]

The Angry One wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And here come the insults. Dumb enough to refuse to do what the villain tells me to do?
Tell me, why did you defy Saren and Sovereign again?

One of the major points of the ending to ME3 is that Shepard was WRONG.  It takes a lot of guts to admit that you were wrong about something, but as we see with the ending to ME3, sometimes things turn out better if you accept your mistakes, and then change your position when you gain new information.  Sticking to your guns in the face of new conflicting information is not admirable.  This is just my interpretation of the ending.

That bothers me. What kind of story is it where the hero is wrong on this kind of level?
Was Luke wrong? Was Frodo wrong? You just don't do that, not in this way, not in this kind of series.

It's art dude/dudette! That **** was deep yo, like watching Sixt Sense where Bruce Willis was... one of THEM!

Why stick to a formula you know that works, when you can be edgy and ****** people off, then pass it off as being a successful artist? After all one of the crappy arguments that games are art is that it provokes an emotional response.

Modifié par M25105, 30 juin 2012 - 07:22 .

[Mr.House]

AlduinTheWorldNommer wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And here come the insults. Dumb enough to refuse to do what the villain tells me to do?
Tell me, why did you defy Saren and Sovereign again?

One of the major points of the ending to ME3 is that Shepard was WRONG.  It takes a lot of guts to admit that you were wrong about something, but as we see with the ending to ME3, sometimes things turn out better if you accept your mistakes, and then change your position when you gain new information.  Sticking to your guns in the face of new conflicting information is not admirable.  This is just my interpretation of the ending.

That bothers me. What kind of story is it where the hero is wrong on this kind of level?
Was Luke wrong? Was Frodo wrong? You just don't do that, not in this way, not in this kind of series.

Why not?

It seems you have a problem with it froma personal standpoint, rather than a literary one, from waht I've read lurking.

Do you really think people would have loved SW or LOTR if Luke said your right father and he becomes sith or Frodo kills Sam, uses the ring and becomes the next evil king and starts to kill everything that mvoes and starts a new dark age?

[Galiredon]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Galiredon wrote...

You got that backwards. That's why ambiguous endings suck.

Was it ambiguous that Frodo destroyed the ring? No, it was very clear.

i didn't like the ending of Lord of the Rings, I thought it was cheesy.  At least the movie, I never read the books.

You didn't like it because you thought it cheesy, or you didn't like it because you wanted it to be more ambiguous?

[Skyhawk02]

The Angry One wrote...

That bothers me. What kind of story is it where the hero is wrong on this kind of level?
Was Luke wrong? Was Frodo wrong? You just don't do that, not in this way, not in this kind of series.

Then Bioware is breaking totally new ground!  Which is awesome in my opinion and of course that is going to upset people, I think it's great when people take risks with their storytelling, it doesn't always pay off, but it's still better than just rehashing the same stories over and over(although that can be pretty good too) 

To me, that is an amazing story, to think for most of a series that you are the good guy, only to find out at the end that you were actually wrong, I don't think this is quite Mass Effect, but IMO that is a worthwhile story.

[The Angry One]

AlduinTheWorldNommer wrote...

Why not?

It seems you have a problem with it froma personal standpoint, rather than a literary one, from waht I've read lurking.

I have a problem with it from a personal standpoint, a literary standpoint and a player agency standpoint.
It makes no sense to not even have the option to defy the Reapers on our terms, even if it were the hardest thing to achieve in the entire series, requiring multiple playthroughs and more EMS than god, it should be there.

[AlduinTheWorldNommer]

The Angry One wrote...

AlduinTheWorldNommer wrote...

Bad-Writing

Again, it is not up for debate, he did try to kill Shepard, that was just meant to increase suspense.

It's pointless to debate otherwise.

Again, this point is not up for debate, it is fact. Period. End of story. Do not argue otherwise.

Prove it.
Legion would never kill Shepard. It never tried. All it did was incapacitate Shepard to prevent her from interfering.

Do I honestly need to prove to you that this was cheap-ploy for emotion?

This happens all the time in movies, right next to the villan explaining his motives before the potragonist.

You honestly don't see that?

You honestly don't.

[BlazingZephyr]

I'm glad there are still people who haven't been indoctrinated by BioWare.

[The Angry One]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

That bothers me. What kind of story is it where the hero is wrong on this kind of level?
Was Luke wrong? Was Frodo wrong? You just don't do that, not in this way, not in this kind of series.

Then Bioware is breaking totally new ground!  Which is awesome in my opinion and of course that is going to upset people, I think it's great when people take risks with their storytelling, it doesn't always pay off, but it's still better than just rehashing the same stories over and over(although that can be pretty good too) 

To me, that is an amazing story, to think for most of a series that you are the good guy, only to find out at the end that you were actually wrong, I don't think this is quite Mass Effect, but IMO that is a worthwhile story.

Um. It's not new ground. It's Deus Ex.
That's my point. It doesn't fit on this level in this kind of story.

[AlduinTheWorldNommer]

The Angry One wrote...

AlduinTheWorldNommer wrote...

Why not?

It seems you have a problem with it froma personal standpoint, rather than a literary one, from waht I've read lurking.

I have a problem with it from a personal standpoint, a literary standpoint and a player agency standpoint.
It makes no sense to not even have the option to defy the Reapers on our terms, even if it were the hardest thing to achieve in the entire series, requiring multiple playthroughs and more EMS than god, it should be there.

So because you don't like being wrong, you'd rather criticize them for trying something new from a  gaming story-telling standpoint.

:innocent:

I like them more for trying something and failing the the stock-ending waifu cliche you're proposing.

Kay.

Modifié par AlduinTheWorldNommer, 30 juin 2012 - 07:24 .