42 réponses à ce sujet

[originalSabZero]

This is said in game - tranquils are the source of the circle of magis wealth.

That got me thinking that this can be easily abused. What if they make a number of students tranquil just to keep the quota for business? I don't think the templar would mind, so no-one would ever know. 

There is actually some questioning on the harrowing too, maybe it serves just that purpose - put apprentices into danger, then their choice is caketranquility or death. 

[Original182]

Well you can only tranquil someone who volunteered, or someone whom you deem is too dangerous to undertake the harrowing.

But it is unethical to tranquil mages against their will just for money.

[Zenon]

I guess a few volunteer and probably you don't need that many around. Normal peasants and farmers won't buy enchantments for many gold coins.



Makes me wonder... how about a Tranquil origin? Letting the tranquil mage be able to have some extra enchantment skills plus maybe unarmed combat like a D&D monk?

[originalSabZero]

Original182: Yes, it's unethical, that's why it worries me that this is a possibility. And the chantry and templars hate mages. I'd wager if they could, they'd make them all tranquil.



Zenon: A tranquil origin doesn't make much sense, because a tranquil would not feel compelled to go fighting I think.

[Herr Uhl]

Zenon wrote...
Makes me wonder... how about a Tranquil origin? Letting the tranquil mage be able to have some extra enchantment skills plus maybe unarmed combat like a D&D monk?

Nah, the lack of any emotion would kill it for me.

[Dark83]

The plural of Tranquil appear to be Tranquil, no?

[Asylumer]

Original182 wrote...

But it is unethical to tranquil mages against their will just for money.

It's also unethical to control Templars by getting them addicted to Lyrium.

[Herr Uhl]

Asylumer wrote...

Original182 wrote...

But it is unethical to tranquil mages against their will just for money.

It's also unethical to control Templars by getting them addicted to Lyrium.

But both are awfully convenient.

[bobsmyuncle]

I'm not sure how often they have to *force* anybody, because it seems like the Chantry, via dogma, does a decent job of creating mages who want to be Tranquil. There's Keili from the mage origin who hates herself for being born a mage, and the author of one of the codex entries, Eddin the Meek, who was raised to be terrified of magic and was therefore eager to be made Tranquil because he wouldn't be afraid anymore.



But I have to admit that the line of thinking in the OP is what led me to help Jowan escape in the mage origin. I'm still not sure if I'm angrier that he lied to my PC or that he proved the Templars right.

[LightSabres]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Asylumer wrote...

Original182 wrote...

But it is unethical to tranquil mages against their will just for money.

It's also unethical to control Templars by getting them addicted to Lyrium.

But both are awfully convenient.

If the Dwarves can ignore morality to turn unwanted people into golems why not humans?

Makes perfect sense to me.

[menasure]

when you play the mage origin there is a lot of stress on the fact that if you stay seemingly too long in the fade or if it seems to dangerous to make you undergo the harrowing you will be made a tranquil ... a suspicious mind knows that things happen rarely for only one reason in life then.

either way the circle has a vial of you blood to ensure your loyalty ... basically they can put you into submission like their dog, make you a tranquil or destroy you. it's interesting to see that they are using blood to do it though when they seemingly completely oppose blood magic. add some lyrium addicted templars and it might as well look like like the whole circle and possibly the whole chantry smells of corruption despite of the fact that you do meet some tranquils who say they volunteered for the job, which hardly means anything coming from someone after he's made a tranquil in my opinion .

Modifié par menasure, 15 décembre 2009 - 05:30 .

[Apophis2412]

Zenon wrote...


Makes me wonder... how about a Tranquil origin? Letting the tranquil mage be able to have some extra enchantment skills plus maybe unarmed combat like a D&D monk?

Great! A RPG with no romance, no relation with the other party members and no real reason to defeat the main boss (like revenge).

[SarEnyaDor]

It's called Oblivion....

[Apophis2412]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

It's called Oblivion....

There was a real reason to defeat Dagon. Or was the destruction of Kvatch or the whole "demon invasion" not reason enough?

[Dark83]

The real reason why people can call Oblivion/Morrowind "not story driven" is the freedom the games provide. At least in games like DA:O, even your "sidequests" are relevant. By which I mean the bulk of "Act 2", where you're wandering around the Deep Roads and the like, not the "collect a few shrooms as you go". The sidequests in TES tend to be irrelevant - explore mines, do shrines, and so on. So the vast majority of your playtime (if you do everything in both Oblivion and DAO) has nothing at all to do with the main quest. The demon invasion conveniently does nothing at all while you're a tourist. DAO at least has Lothering destroyed while you dally about, and most of the time you're advancing your goals.

[SarEnyaDor]

Oh, I liked Oblivion, I just never finished the main quest, I did EVERY single other thing including Shivering Isles etc, and never finished the main quest .. so I guess I had no drive to beat the big bad.

[doubledeviant]

DA:O is just as unrealistic as TESIV:Oblivion. Lothering gets destroyed, sure. But for most of the game the Darkspawn horde conveniently disperses while you gather your army and perform countless sidequests. Gee, pretty lucky, huh?

[bobsmyuncle]

They actually don't conveniently disperse. They're busy laying waste to the Bannorn and you can hear at least one Bann **** about how his land has been destroyed and his people slaughtered and driven off while Loghain sits in Denerim trying to solidify his regency. Your Grey Warden just doesn't get the opportunity to visit more small towns after Lothering because you have to pursue the treaties and get on with the Blight.

[Dark83]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Oh, I liked Oblivion, I just never finished the main quest, I did EVERY single other thing including Shivering Isles etc, and never finished the main quest .. so I guess I had no drive to beat the big bad.

I did exactly this for Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3, hehe.

Morrowind, I was a mage-archer, and the dust storm annoyed me, so I never pushed in. Oblivion I did everything (including the magic sanctum thingy, if I'm not hallucinating and remembering the right game) but never did get around to finishing it. It had to do with random encounters with groups of bandits all in full Daedric gear. Fallout 3, every single thing possible in the game prior to entering the irridated vault. (Both Oblivion and FO3 I got at release, so no DLCs or expansions. Though I do remember horse armor and observatory or something in TES4 - were they free, or did somebody just "give me a copy"?)

[SarEnyaDor]

Oh gosh, I don't remember if the horse armor was free - I know it cost som microsoft points for the other add-ons, the books, observatory, mage's castle-thingie where you could enchant stuff.



I think I ended up spending alot of my time crafting, and collecting things to display in my various houses display cases, using teleport to lower things onto shelves and the like. LOL

[Zenon]

Well, after reading your replies to my admittedly strange idea, I see your point. But then it could be a simply logical decision to act against the Blight, because chances to survive would be higher than waiting for Darkspawn to overrun everybody. I guess the romance thingy could be tricky with a tranquil character, indeed. But then again, noone is forced to play such a character.



Anyway, there are most likely better ideas for new origins around than this.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Original182 wrote...

Well you can only tranquil someone who volunteered, or someone whom you deem is too dangerous to undertake the harrowing.
But it is unethical to tranquil mages against their will just for money.

Which is why I wouldn't put it past the Chantry and Templars, because niether organization is exactly what I consider the pinnacle of "ethics".

Of course, they would see nothing unethical about tranquiling mages against their wills. They could come up with the excuse, might even believe it, that they are simply neutralizing a bunch of  potential abomiantions/maelificar. they could come up with excuses and reasons. Maybe raise standards on the mages, making even minor failures excuse for tranquiling the individual. They can deem anyone dangerous if they wanted to.

[The Angry One]

I'd point out that the Harrowing is unethical in the first place.

Subjecting apprentices to defeat a demon in the Fade on pain of death? Oh yes and I'm really amused as to how the demon CO-OPERATES with the whole thing.

That means SOMEBODY has to go around consorting with demons, telling them when there's fresh mage-meat undergoing a test.

[AntiChri5]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Original182 wrote...

Well you can only tranquil someone who volunteered, or someone whom you deem is too dangerous to undertake the harrowing.
But it is unethical to tranquil mages against their will just for money.

Which is why I wouldn't put it past the Chantry and Templars, because niether organization is exactly what I consider the pinnacle of "ethics".

Of course, they would see nothing unethical about tranquiling mages against their wills. They could come up with the excuse, might even believe it, that they are simply neutralizing a bunch of  potential abomiantions/maelificar. they could come up with excuses and reasons. Maybe raise standards on the mages, making even minor failures excuse for tranquiling the individual. They can deem anyone dangerous if they wanted to.

They could further justify/rationalize it by using some of the money to help the poor. Or at least the faithfull poor.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Original182 wrote...
But it is unethical to tranquil mages against their will just for money.

Which means that it happens all too often.
There is in fact a political party in the circle that is built upon the idea of increasing the wealth of the circle.