65 réponses à ce sujet

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

I for one want NPC's to realize that I have chosen to be a templar, I want there to be templar specific quests or be able to go into places like for instance, Val Royeaux, and the other templars recognize me as one of their kin. Or just have specific dialogue options or let others notice if I'm a blood mage. Something along the lines of this was done in DA2, when Meredith knows you're an apostate or other NPC's and companions know/realize youre a mage.

What do you think?

Modifié par REAPERS_r_CTHULHU, 30 juin 2012 - 11:12 .

[MichaelStuart]

Agree

[Wulfram]

Being a mage/blood mage definitely needs to be recognised, or not available at all. Given the importance of that to the setting, it really can't be ignored.

Otherwise it comes under the "would be nice" heading, but it's not vital.

I'd also say it's important to have a few specialisations that are fairly generic and would fit most any character. Because otherwise you end up with people not having any appropriate choice. It's a problem for me with WarriorHawke - if my character is neither aggressive and crazy or very Templary, then there isn't a specialisation that fits. Though I tend to take Templar because I can justify that it's just the training, not actually joining the order.

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

I always chose reaver and templar, I had to make up my own backstory that went something like: I had super mage envy and tried really hard to become the best templar, but fell short so I scoured the earth in search of more power and talked to demons and drank the blood of dragons to become a reaver and completely obliterate the mage threat.

I always thought it was unfortunate that no one would recognize that I was a templar. I would assume that whilst talking to a templar, they could at least mention something of the order, or you could go and join in and get the armor and have side quests where you go and hunt mages? They need to make factions now that I think of it...

[Gebert]

I think they mentioned that Specs would have much a bigger impact on the story during the panel at PAX. And also, as Wulfram said, there needs to be at least one neutral Spec.

[LobselVith8]

I understand how you feel, Reapers. There was no apostate POV for my illegal mage Hawke. Being a mage was pretty much ignored for the most part.

It would be good for the specialization to have an effect on the people and the world around us. Being a mage, especially a blood mage, should be recognized. Maybe using blood magic to persuade people the same way Obi Wan persuades the troops about the droids. Maybe you could save lives as a spirit healer, and that would have ramifications.

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

Or you could intimidate people with your blood magic? Just throwing out some ideas.

I think it would be so nice if I walked up to Meredith in DA2 with my warrior Hawke, who has a templar specialization, and her recognize that and say, "Well Hawke, you're a templar too, do your duty for the chantry! Fight by my side and rid Kirkwall of these mages like how you were trained to do!"

[LobselVith8]

Didn't Ser Otto recognize if The Warden had the templar specialization?

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Didn't Ser Otto recognize if The Warden had the templar specialization?

Can't remember, don't even remember talking to him to be honest.

But what we're looking for are for mages to be wary and dislike you and the chantry and templars to be more fond of you if you have the templar specialization (or vice versa with other specializations, I only use templar because it's the easiest to explain).

[FenrirBlackDragon]

I think I'd really like that. To be acknowledged beyond just being mage/not mage would be a huge plus for me, especially if they also acknowledged specializations like Templar, Reaver, Blood Mage, Spirit Healer....Assassin, Shadow... (And bring back some of the ones from origins, dang it! or Awakening...).
I want it to mean something role playing wise.

[KAM12780]

We have bloodmage/spirit healer and reaver/templar in the war of mage vs templar, so where does that leave Rogues?

Modifié par KAM12780, 01 juillet 2012 - 02:20 .

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

KAM12780 wrote...

We have bloodmage/spirit healer and reaver/templar in the war of mage vs templar, so where does that leave Rogues?

I'm not quite sure I follow your point. But, with a new game, brings new mechanics. In the new game which I believe was being hinted at taking place in Orlais, there will be seekers, If seekers could be a warrior or rogue specialization (as I'm dreaming hard on) then that problem of rogue's not being recognized could be fixed.

But aside from that, rogue specializations, take assassin or deulist for instance, people in-game could note your peculiar ability to "take care" of people and they could claim that your "reputation with the blade precedes you". Or you could get anonymous job offers in note form to assassinate people, or nobles come up to you to defend their honor after an insult.

The level of speculation for each specialization in the game is astounding, and something that would immerse you even more into the game world, make your decisions matter more, and make you feel like YOU are actually playing, is disgustingly overlooked.

[PsychoBlonde]

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

What do you think?

YES.  They need to take the HUGE, STUPID wall between gameplay and story, knock it over, pound it to bits, and SET THE BITS ON FIRE.

[PsychoBlonde]

KAM12780 wrote...

We have bloodmage/spirit healer and reaver/templar in the war of mage vs templar, so where does that leave Rogues?

Assassin/duelist.  Which have basically no story significance whatsoever thus far.  The only interesting thing Rogues do is disarm traps and open boxes.

However, this doesn't have to continue.  You could have a big distinction between Duelist types (who presumably take on their foes face-to-face, mano-e-mano, and win through superior skill) and Assassin types, who attack from behind (and the side, and above, and through third parties), and win through superior cunning and plain willingness to play dirty.

And then you could introduce some interesting things like a dishonorable duelist who goes around seeking reasons to get into duels and killing people over trivialities, stuff like that.

Also, you know, RANGERS and BARDS would be nice.

[SSJ5]

I agree. Whenever I chose a specialization I expected that at least SOMEONE notice what I am. Doesn't have to be many people. Just some people relevant to it. And some additional quests would be nice as well.

What I would also like to see is that this would perhaps have a positive or a negative impact during conversations with certain characters. A Blood Mage speaking to a Templar would certainly be in bad standing, while a Templar talking to another Templar would have a much better chance to get some info out of him or get a better reward, etc ...

Also, related to his, I absolutely hate when people didn't notice I wore a piece of legendary armor or an epic weapon of old. You could threaten a man with the Ageless and he could care less. He could at least notice that its an epic sword. I know that it can't be done for every single piece of equipment, but it would be nice if a few chosen ones got a mention from time to time. They just don't live up to the hype if they are not mentioned sometimes during the dialogue.

[robertthebard]

So will the Chantry get to hunt Apostate Templars too? The reason people don't notice that you're a Templar 99% of the time is because you're not a Templar. Just like having martial arts training doesn't necessarily mean you're a ninja, having Templar training, unless you got it from the Chantry, doesn't make you a Templar.

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

robertthebard wrote...

So will the Chantry get to hunt Apostate Templars too? The reason people don't notice that you're a Templar 99% of the time is because you're not a Templar. Just like having martial arts training doesn't necessarily mean you're a ninja, having Templar training, unless you got it from the Chantry, doesn't make you a Templar.

Well, when Bruce Lee faught Chuck Norris, did they ever comment on their styles of combat with eachother?

Your analogy doesn't fit unless you claim the martial arts training was specified training done by ninjas. In the game, I'm sure that if you use a templar power to cancel out magic it wouldn't go unnoticed, or if you used blood magic, people wouldn't scream out "BLOOD MAGE!!!!!"

So let's say, you're in the real world and you're doing combat training for the military, you get done with all of your military training and you're now a brand new soldier and you see someone else beat someone up with the same martial arts you were taught, don't you ask them if they are a soldier, too? Or does it go unnoticed? Or if someone was doing drugs in an ally and then talked to a police officer, does the police officer not smell said drugs on him or notice he is acting strangly?

Modifié par REAPERS_r_CTHULHU, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:44 .

[bloodmage13]

I agree that certain classes should be neutral but Templar and blood mage should have different reactions.

[robertthebard]

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So will the Chantry get to hunt Apostate Templars too? The reason people don't notice that you're a Templar 99% of the time is because you're not a Templar. Just like having martial arts training doesn't necessarily mean you're a ninja, having Templar training, unless you got it from the Chantry, doesn't make you a Templar.

Well, when Bruce Lee faught Chuck Norris, did they ever comment on their styles of combat with eachother?

Your analogy doesn't fit unless you claim the martial arts training was specified training done by ninjas. In the game, I'm sure that if you use a templar power to cancel out magic it wouldn't go unnoticed, or if you used blood magic, people wouldn't scream out "BLOOD MAGE!!!!!"

So let's say, you're in the real world and you're doing combat training for the military, you get done with all of your military training and you're now a brand new soldier and you see someone else beat someone up with the same martial arts you were taught, don't you ask them if they are a soldier, too? Or does it go unnoticed? Or if someone was doing drugs in an ally and then talked to a police officer, does the police officer not smell said drugs on him or notice he is acting strangly?

In my study of the martial arts, I would recognize the techniques used that were taught in the art/arts that I studied, and the arts that I have come in contact with while participating in tournaments, strictly amateur, I'm no pro.  However, regarding the analogy, while borderline at best, it's applicable in that actual Templars are trained by the Chantry.  If, for example, you didn't get told that Samson was an ex Templar, would you know by looking at him that he was?  Perhaps the best way to view this is Templars are trained by the Chantry, but templars are people that learned the specialization through other means, and thus aren't visibly recognizeable.  Without visual clues, or close combat situations, I wouldn't expect anyone to notice that I've ever studied a martial art, let alone multiple martial arts.  The same would hold true for templar training, if you're just talking to someone on the street, in the Chantry, what have you, there are no visual or combat clues to indicate that you have templar training.  So I don't expect that anyone would notice, under those conditions, and if they've never fought with, or against a Templar, I don't expect they'd know what it was you were doing anyway.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

YES.  They need to take the HUGE, STUPID wall between gameplay and story, knock it over, pound it to bits, and SET THE BITS ON FIRE.

Underrated post.

10/10, would read again. And again. And again.

Hope BioWare devs would too.

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

robertthebard wrote...

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

So will the Chantry get to hunt Apostate Templars too? The reason people don't notice that you're a Templar 99% of the time is because you're not a Templar. Just like having martial arts training doesn't necessarily mean you're a ninja, having Templar training, unless you got it from the Chantry, doesn't make you a Templar.

Well, when Bruce Lee faught Chuck Norris, did they ever comment on their styles of combat with eachother?

Your analogy doesn't fit unless you claim the martial arts training was specified training done by ninjas. In the game, I'm sure that if you use a templar power to cancel out magic it wouldn't go unnoticed, or if you used blood magic, people wouldn't scream out "BLOOD MAGE!!!!!"

So let's say, you're in the real world and you're doing combat training for the military, you get done with all of your military training and you're now a brand new soldier and you see someone else beat someone up with the same martial arts you were taught, don't you ask them if they are a soldier, too? Or does it go unnoticed? Or if someone was doing drugs in an ally and then talked to a police officer, does the police officer not smell said drugs on him or notice he is acting strangly?

In my study of the martial arts, I would recognize the techniques used that were taught in the art/arts that I studied, and the arts that I have come in contact with while participating in tournaments, strictly amateur, I'm no pro.  However, regarding the analogy, while borderline at best, it's applicable in that actual Templars are trained by the Chantry.  If, for example, you didn't get told that Samson was an ex Templar, would you know by looking at him that he was?  Perhaps the best way to view this is Templars are trained by the Chantry, but templars are people that learned the specialization through other means, and thus aren't visibly recognizeable.  Without visual clues, or close combat situations, I wouldn't expect anyone to notice that I've ever studied a martial art, let alone multiple martial arts.  The same would hold true for templar training, if you're just talking to someone on the street, in the Chantry, what have you, there are no visual or combat clues to indicate that you have templar training.  So I don't expect that anyone would notice, under those conditions, and if they've never fought with, or against a Templar, I don't expect they'd know what it was you were doing anyway.

Nice valid argument, with nice valid reasons to argue. I like you, sir.

Anyways, yes! That's the beauty of all of this! If you are an evil apostate no one would know, true, but we are skepticizing is that, when you are in fights and you are around your squadmates, no one says anything about you using blood magic. If you kill templars or activate blood magic or holy smite around NPC's then they do not even react accordingly.

I want people to run in fear of me when I activate blood magic for no good reason. When I fight and kill mages with my templar abilites, I want the word to get back to the templars and for them to take notice that I have their abilites and induct me or accept me as a member. I want to walk the streets and hear someone say "Hey, isn't that that templar that killed several apostates by himself?"

There are a plethora of implications for this, Sir. I'm not saying that all I need to do is specialize in something and hope that the next person I talk to says something about it, I want it to be more dynamic. The more I use my holy smite or blood magic, the more I want the masses to take notice and comment/open up certain dialogue options.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Didn't Ser Otto recognize if The Warden had the templar specialization?

I can't accurately recall the conversation in question, but I know a Templar Warden had dialogue stating that he/she could sense the same maliciousness in the air that Ser Otto felt.

Which makes it a bit weird how Templar Hawke can't even state anything of the sort, given that Kirkwall is basically the Alienage cranked up to 11 in terms of how thin the Veil is.

Hell forget that, it makes it weird how the Templars period can't sense the thin Veil.

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I can't accurately recall the conversation in question, but I know a Templar Warden had dialogue stating that he/she could sense the same maliciousness in the air that Ser Otto felt.

Which makes it a bit weird how Templar Hawke can't even state anything of the sort, given that Kirkwall is basically the Alienage cranked up to 11 in terms of how thin the Veil is.

Hell forget that, it makes it weird how the Templars period can't sense the thin Veil.

Can't see the wood for the trees, I guess.  You don't really notice it because it's basically everywhere.

(Actual reason is likely that Kirkwall's thin veil was added late in production because they realised they'd included excessive numbers of crazy mages.)

[Dio Demon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Didn't Ser Otto recognize if The Warden had the templar specialization?

I can't accurately recall the conversation in question, but I know a Templar Warden had dialogue stating that he/she could sense the same maliciousness in the air that Ser Otto felt.

Which makes it a bit weird how Templar Hawke can't even state anything of the sort, given that Kirkwall is basically the Alienage cranked up to 11 in terms of how thin the Veil is.

Hell forget that, it makes it weird how the Templars period can't sense the thin Veil.

Don't blame the Kirkwall Templars for how awesomely skilled Ser Otto is, and that they can never compare to his abilities in sensing stuff.

In all seriousness perhaps not all Templars can actually sense how fragile the Veil is until its actually broken and demony stuff is happening before their eyes also Ser Otto may have a heightened sensitivity to it because his body is compensating for the reduced vision by refining his other senses.

[TEWR]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

Don't blame the Kirkwall Templars for how awesomely skilled Ser Otto is, and that they can never compare to his abilities in sensing stuff.

In all seriousness perhaps not all Templars can actually sense how fragile the Veil is until its actually broken and demony stuff is happening before their eyes also Ser Otto may have a heightened sensitivity to it because his body is compensating for the reduced vision by refining his other senses.

That's the thing though. If it was just Ser Otto, I'd be inclined to agree that it's due to his body heightening his other sense due to his being primarily -- if not entirely -- blind in both eyes.

But the fact that a Templar Warden can sense it as well -- evident in the dialogue option they can pick -- means that Templars should be able to sense the thin Veil. Demons need not be in front of them for them to realize it.

The Veil in Kirkwall is thinner in spades then the Alienage's was, so you'd think that the Templars would be able to easily sense it.

I'm inclined to agree with Wulfram's post, in that the thin Veil was just an excuse made for the justification of insane mages everywhere. As a result, it's created a few inconsistencies/plot holes.

Even Mages are able to sense a thin Veil, IIRC.