288 réponses à ce sujet

[zenoxis]

Beliar86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

Entirely too serious and whiny about not getting your way in a video game

Not getting our way is a big deal considering we paid money

[drayfish]

Despite how it may sound, this is not a comment on the subject matter of the ending, just its expansion and clarification.

I find it a little sad that fans are all feeling the compulsion to grovel and whimper in respect for Bioware's attempt to fix their mistake. The original ending - whatever you thought of it - was muddled and riddled with mistakes. It was clearly rushed out, and the result was mass confusion, anger and disappointment throughout the fan base.

To their credit Bioware sought to correct their blunder (again, no matter what you think of the ending - personally I hated it) by offering a more coherent conclusion, but such sloppy material should never have been released in the first place. Face bugs, pay-walled DLC, zombie-eyes and glitching, black screens of death, and an ending that failed to even communicate its purpose, the game was far from Bioware's traditional standards.

To gush over them doing the job they promised to do in the first place sends an unsettling precedent that we, as fans and consumers, will accept anything shovelled our way, and helplessly praise it if it even approaches living up to what it first claimed to be. We have the right to be critical of a work that we paid for and that failed to fulfill the purpose its marketing insisted it would.

Modifié par drayfish, 01 juillet 2012 - 02:40 .

[Memnon]

saracen16 wrote...
I'm a writer. The Crucible is a MacGuffin, not a DXM. The Catalyst is also not a DXM because he is introduced. I think it's you who needs to learn what good storytelling is and not parrot every single blurb spat out by the "I hate the starbrat" fan club.

I'm an electrical engineer ... since we're talking about professions here. My profession has as much bearing on this conversation as yours, which is none. I don't care what the heck you call the plot devices, they're both terrible and lazy. You're here telling people that they actually had rat poop instead of mouse poop in their split pea soup when all they care about is that there is **** in their food

Modifié par Stornskar, 01 juillet 2012 - 02:49 .

[Dragoonlordz]

zenoxis wrote...

Beliar86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

Entirely too serious and whiny about not getting your way in a video game

Not getting our way is a big deal considering we paid money

For the amount you paid it does not mean you get to design the game to your personal  specifications.

The article when says Bioware deserves credit for the free DLC compromise which actually was acceptable to alot and even pleased some which totalled a fairly large amount of people on this site and in general is correct in what it says. They were right to say cannot please everyone and this time around you just happen to be in that "still not pleased" group.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 juillet 2012 - 02:52 .

[Makrys]

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

This. EC was the same crap, just longer. It was insulting.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

drayfish wrote...

Despite how it may sound, this is not a comment on the subject matter of the ending, just its expansion and clarification.

I find it a little sad that fans are all feeling the compulsion to grovel and whimper in respect for Bioware's attempt to fix their mistake. The original ending - whatever you thought of it - was muddled and riddled with mistakes. It was clearly rushed out, and the result was mass confusion, anger and disappointment throughout the fan base.

To their credit Bioware sought to correct their blunder (again, no matter what you think of the ending - personally I hated it) by offering a more coherent conclusion, but such sloppy material should never have been released in the first place. Face bugs, pay-walled DLC, zombie-eyes and glitching, black screens of death, and an ending that failed to even communicate its purpose, the game was far from Bioware's traditional standards.

To gush over them doing the job they promised to do in the first place sends an unsettling precedent that we, as fans and consumers, will accept anything shovelled our way, and helplessly praise it if it even approaches living up to what it first claimed to be. We have the right to be critical of a work that we paid for and that failed to fulfill the purpose its marketing insisted it would.

Nobody's gushing or grovelling.  These are not things that anyone has done.

It is possible to forgive without forgetting, you know.

[Javo2357]

Stornskar wrote...

saracen16 wrote...
I'm a writer. The Crucible is a MacGuffin, not a DXM. The Catalyst is also not a DXM because he is introduced. I think it's you who needs to learn what good storytelling is and not parrot every single blurb spat out by the "I hate the starbrat" fan club.

I'm an electrical engineer ... since we're talking about professions here. My profession has as much bearing on this conversation as yours, which is none. I don't care what the heck you call the plot devices, they're both terrible and lazy. You're here telling people that they actually had rat poop instead of mouse poop in their split pea soup when all they care about is that there is **** in their food

Ok..this made me LOL

[Bourne Endeavor]

Sadly I cannot offer much because despite an improvement over the original abomination, the overall concept remains. Had Refusal allotted an option where we could defeat the Reapers conventionally, with scenes were depicted based on our war assets; Krogan soldiers battling alongside Salarians and possibly Rachni, The Floatia and Geth armada joined together and etc.

That would have truly addressed the vocal concerns. Make it a grueling process, even make multiplayer a requirement to reach that EMS score until future DLC was released and it still would be worthwhile, not because of a "happy ending" but due to providing fans with choice. We have bittersweet, we have negative, yet there is no positive.

Therefore, I give them credit for the Extended Cut however it is marginal in the face of what not was done and their arrogance in the past three months. Salvage whatever more credit you desire from your "artistic integrity." I have none more to offer.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 01 juillet 2012 - 02:56 .

[Javo2357]

zenoxis wrote...

Beliar86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

Entirely too serious and whiny about not getting your way in a video game

Not getting our way is a big deal considering we paid money

They can't address EVERYONE'S concerns, especially since it wasn't how they wanted to end their story. But you can't deny that fan feedback hasn't shaped the series. I think a lot of ppl (not necessarly anyone/everyone here) think they are entitled to having the series end exactly how they wanted and that's just not possible. You paid for a game, which imho is mostly a GREAT game; I can see how some disliked the ending a lot but it doesn't mean you got ripped off.

[Geneaux486]

dark_secret7 wrote...

Why is it that literalists are so hateful towards IT-ers?

I had no opinion on ITheorists for the longest time, until I crossed paths with several of them in various threads around the same time.  All of them were condescending and insulting, acting like I was an idiot for missing what was so blatantly obvious (yet wound up being untrue), and promising me that I would have egg on my face once the EC proved that the ending was an illusion.  Even so, all that really did was change my opinion on those particular ITheorists, not the school of thought as a whole, so to answer your question, saying that all literalists are hateful towards ITers would be the same as me saying that all ITers are condescending and arrogant.

Had Refusal allotted an option where we could defeat the Reapers conventionally, with scenes were depicted based on our war assets; Krogan soldiers battling alongside Salarians and possibly Rachni, The Floatia and Geth armada joined together and etc.

That would have truly addressed the vocal concerns. Make it a grueling process, even make multiplayer a requirement to reach that EMS score until future DLC was released and it still would be worthwhile, not because of a "happy ending" but due to providing fans with choice. We have bittersweet, we have negative, yet there is no positive.

Making conventional victory a possibility would have contradicted canon up to that point and effectively ruined the ending.  Why?  Because no matter how united the galaxy is, the fact remains that everyone got caught with their pants down when the Reapers  hit.  Earth burned from the start.  Palaven, with the strongest military in the galaxy, got steamrolled and their world burned as well.  Thessia had a little time to set up defenses, and it did them no good.  The Krogan were already weak to begin with, even if they have Wrex's superior leadership.  The Geth and Quarians kicked each other's asses, and the Salarians decided it would be more fun to experiment on Yahg and Varren than prepare to fight.  You're basically making a fleet out of what is essentially everyone's leftovers.  Had the galaxy listend to Shepard, even as late as Mass Effect 2, a conventional victory might have been possible, but as it stands, nobody was prepared to fight what essentially is a galactic force of nature.

It also would have contradicted the theme of choice because by making a conventional win possible, there is only one correct choice and three incorrect ones, which means there's not really a choice at all.

It's an unconventional enemy requiring nothing less than an unconventional weapon.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 01 juillet 2012 - 03:13 .

[sydranark]

they deserve a pat on the back for trying. that is all. I never had high hopes for the EC, therefore they succeeded in meeting my expectations.

[SMichelle]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

They deserve some credit for at least acknowledging pretty much nothing made any semblance of sense, and attempting to fix some parts.

Before both the ideas and the execution of them were terrible. Now the execution is agreeable in some aspects, but the ideas are still mostly the piles of sh*t they always were. 

So I can admire that the ending at least has a reasonably consistent tone.

Though I almost want to strip away any given credit for essentialy outright lying about half a dozen things. 

^This.


I feel like they wrote themselves into a corner - and in order to get themselves out gave us the totally lame crucible and catalyst. 

I could live with magic weapon that we don't know about until the last game.  I don't like it.  But I could go with it.

However, the catalyst.  I think everything after the light elevator to the catalyst should be scrapped.  Seriously.  some reaper controller that we've never heard about - no foreshadowing in ME1 or ME2?  If ME2 was about TIM's search for the crucible I would have found ME3 much more palatable.  However, the catalyst and the RGB buttons need to go.

I would have been happier if IT was true.  I really wanted BioWare to pull a rabbit out of a hat on this one.

Sure.  I would have been a little annoyed at not getting the true ending initially.  But they could have released the post IT ending for free like the EC


Shepard lives the reapers destroyed
Shepard lives, companions die, reapers destroyed
Shepard dies, reapers win

This could all be based on PREVIOUS DECISIONS  (OMG!  I know, right?)

[Geneaux486]

SMichelle wrote...
This could all be based on PREVIOUS DECISIONS  (OMG!  I know, right?)

The entire game was based on previous decisions.  Even at the end, they factor into your EMS which factors into which functions of the Crucible are available to you, and even so, we're still given a choice as to how we end things. 

[Arturia Pendragon]

Sure, they deserve credit for the EC. It's not like I'm going to give ATLUS the credit for it.

But that's as far as I'll go with it.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 01 juillet 2012 - 03:19 .

[SMichelle]

Geneaux486 wrote...

SMichelle wrote...
This could all be based on PREVIOUS DECISIONS  (OMG!  I know, right?)

The entire game was based on previous decisions.  Even at the end, they factor into your EMS which factors into which functions of the Crucible are available to you, and even so, we're still given a choice as to how we end things. 

Rachni queen - doesn't matter what decision you made

Most of ME2 - doesn't matter what decisions you made (they had fill-ins) for Mordin, Wrex etc.

EMS can be raised easily by simply doing MP.


Sythesis makes no sense.  The catalyst makes no sense.  If there was some foreshadowing of these things in earlier games I would have less of a problem with it.

[_aLucidMind_]

I'll give them credit for it what they did with Control, Synthesis, and Destroy. Reject, on the other hand, I would love to get whoever came up with Reject being a blatant back-hand and "f*** you" to those who didn't like the endings to meet me in person so I could personally back-hand them. I would have forgiven BioWare after the EC and only proceeded with caution until they earned back my trust had Reject not been so blatantly insulting and spiteful. But because it is, BioWare is officially on my blacklist of companies that will never be able to earn back the priviledge of me supporting them over GameStop.

[xsdob]

So that's why the threads were so nice the past few days, all the ****s got temp banned for those days like I did or decided to take a rest from posting here and now they're back in force.

amazing how so many jerks getting banned allowed for civil discussion and I didn't notice the number drop 1 bit.

[Savber100]

I agree.

Even if the EC didn't fix everything, Bioware went out and made this for the fans for FREE.

Not a cent, not nothing even with EA as their parent company. Some of you might still hate Bioware for the ending but I think this act at least show that Bioware isn't out for to destroy your livelihood or ruin the entire gaming industry as some people have put it.

I personally am satisfied. If you think EC failed then recognize that was due to incompetence not ill will. ME3's failure shouldn't translate to hellish hatred for the people themselves.

[Geneaux486]

SMichelle wrote...
Rachni queen - doesn't matter what decision you made

I'll agree with that one.

Most of ME2 - doesn't matter what decisions you made (they had fill-ins) for Mordin, Wrex etc.

So?  It's either that or not put them in the game at all.  The presences of Mordin, Wrex, and the rest changes the flow of the story arcs that they're in, and in some cases, you can't end conflicts a certain way without certain characters being there.  Good example of that is peace between the geth and the quarians, which can only be achieved if Legion and Tali are both alive.

EMS can be raised easily by simply doing MP.

Goes back down if you don't sustain it though.

Sythesis makes no sense.

It does in the EC.

The catalyst makes no sense.

Why?  The Reapers have always been a giant unknown.  Everything we learn about them in ME2 and ME3 is filling in information where we previously knew nothing.  The idea that there's some kind of governing force contradicts no previously established knowlege, and it actually seems likely given how organized and methodical the Reapers are anyway, especially since Sovereign boasts about how independent they are yet still working together towards the same goal 100% of the time.

If there was some foreshadowing of these things in earlier games I would have less of a problem with it

Not everything needs to be foreshadowed.

[crimzontearz]

they deserve no praise. This was done for 2 reasons

1 keep things quiet while people waited
2 insure future sales
3 apparently reiterate we are dumb and slow for not understanding.

Bioware heard us but did not listen, not really. And if they did they willingly chose not to give the fans what they wanted besides what they were willing to throw together and the proof is that they only TRIED to give some sense to the starbrat's idiotic logic and add a "pick up scene"

did we get a concrete reunion for sacrificing a whole race and a dear friend? no
did we get to see the assets we worked hard for? no
did we get ANY sort of explanation about BS space magic? no




the sad thing? I would have forgiven it ALL for a reunion

[SMichelle]

Geneaux486 wrote...

SMichelle wrote...
Rachni queen - doesn't matter what decision you made

I'll agree with that one.

Most of ME2 - doesn't matter what decisions you made (they had fill-ins) for Mordin, Wrex etc.

So?  It's either that or not put them in the game at all.  The presences of Mordin, Wrex, and the rest changes the flow of the story arcs that they're in, and in some cases, you can't end conflicts a certain way without certain characters being there.  Good example of that is peace between the geth and the quarians, which can only be achieved if Legion and Tali are both alive.

EMS can be raised easily by simply doing MP.

Goes back down if you don't sustain it though.

Sythesis makes no sense.

It does in the EC.

The catalyst makes no sense.

Why?  The Reapers have always been a giant unknown.  Everything we learn about them in ME2 and ME3 is filling in information where we previously knew nothing.  The idea that there's some kind of governing force contradicts no previously established knowlege, and it actually seems likely given how organized and methodical the Reapers are anyway, especially since Sovereign boasts about how independent they are yet still working together towards the same goal 100% of the time.

If there was some foreshadowing of these things in earlier games I would have less of a problem with it

Not everything needs to be foreshadowed.

Foreshadowing does need to be done if you don't want to look like you're using a deus ex machina device (which the catalyst and crucible sure look like to me).

Seriously.  How does the crucible combine everyone's DNA so that they all live immortal lives of peace and harmony?

What *was* the purpose of ME2?  Companions from ME2 were mostly ignored.  The "dark energy" thing everyone was worried about disappeard.

[Geneaux486]

crimzontearz wrote...
did we get ANY sort of explanation about BS space magic? no

Actually we did get a lot of that.

[crimzontearz]

Geneaux486 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...did we get ANY sort of explanation about BS space magic? no

Actually we did get a lot of that.

uh...no....we really did not. It still makes no goddamn sense

[Ghost]

Beliar86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

Entirely too serious and whiny about not getting your way in a video game

[wicked_being]

Geneaux486 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
did we get ANY sort of explanation about BS space magic? no

Actually we did get a lot of that.

Oh? Do explain. Might've missed it.