wicked_being wrote...
Geneaux486 wrote...
crimzontearz wrote...
did we get ANY sort of explanation about BS space magic? no
Actually we did get a lot of that.
Oh? Do explain. Might've missed it.
Modifié par SMichelle, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:03 .
iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...
wantedman dan wrote...
No, the Crucible was not a Deus Ex Machina.
It was a MacGuffin, which is still poor storytelling.
People use to argue that the starchild was the MacGuffin and the Crucible was the Deus Ex Machina.
And now you come along and tell everyone they're wrong.
Well your one of those people on here that doesnt deserved to be listened to. So Bioware should get credit fo that. If you dont like it, I suggest you move along.The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
SMichelle wrote...
wicked_being wrote...
Geneaux486 wrote...
crimzontearz wrote...
did we get ANY sort of explanation about BS space magic? no
Actually we did get a lot of that.
Oh? Do explain. Might've missed it.
Didn't you hear the Catalyst? You jump in that beam over there and your DNA can combine with synthetics so everyone can live immortal lives of peace and harmony.
So a person who was disappointed by the EC deserves to not have their reasons why they were let down be ignored by the company that let her (and many other) fans down? Sycophantic BioWare fans shouldn't be the only customers or fans allowed to state their opinion on a product BioWare makes.babachewie wrote...
Well your one of those people on here that doesnt deserved to be listened to. So Bioware should get credit fo that. If you dont like it, I suggest you move along.The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
Modifié par _aLucidMind_, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:16 .
The Night Mammoth wrote...
Festilence wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
What would that alteration to Rejection be?
Being able to beat the Reapers with super-high EMS, if I assume correctly.
Which is far more narratively coherent than any of the three options presented.
Modifié par MegaSovereign, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:23 .
Lochwood wrote...
iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...
wantedman dan wrote...
No, the Crucible was not a Deus Ex Machina.
It was a MacGuffin, which is still poor storytelling.
People use to argue that the starchild was the MacGuffin and the Crucible was the Deus Ex Machina.
And now you come along and tell everyone they're wrong.
Look -- I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'll tell you as someone who is very well read and at least somewhat articulate on such matters that you've got it all wrong.
Before the extended cut the Catalyst was an infuriating deus ex machina. The EC has fixed this to the point where I'm OK with the showdown. It's more of a confrontation with a new incarnation of the same Reaper villain -- or a "representation" of the "collective" will of the Reapers, as the Catalyst puts it.
Building the Crucible is the plot of the game. It's not a McGuffin. If there was some secret "key" that we were chasing from mission to mission -- some object that didn't really mean or do anything other than justify each subsequent mission or scene -- THAT would be a mcguffin. Like the Pink Panther diamond, or the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. Building the crucible is the narrative that explains why the hell we're collecting "war assets" and why helping Kasumi and the true-Rachni queen matter. That a PLOT, not a trivial item that means nothing. It represents progress across the game. When Hackett looks out that big window after Mordin's mission and you see the huge structure coming together -- yeah, that's important. And at the end of the game when then thing turns the Citadel and the relays into a HUGE-RED-JET-OF-KILL-ALL-SYNTHETICS -- yeah, that's a tangible manifistation of it the Crucible's true importance.
What did the briefcase in Pulp Fiction do? Did it represent the collective efforts of the protagonist as an important visual cue to a key theme? Did it kill the antagonists? Was the mystery of what it does a HUGE reveal that shocked you?
No. It never mattered. It was just a reason for the characters to be in the same room.
That's the difference. The Death Star was not a McGuffin. The Enterprise is not a McGuffin. When Luke wins over his father's heart and Darth Vader tosses the Emperor down a hole it's it's not a deus ex machina.
Cool?
There should have been a space-battle scene showing just how badly we lost (if low EMS) up to how the Reapers sustained a significant number of losses (if EMS is high), putting in just big enough of a dent for the next cycle to be able to pull it off if. If it is a low EMS, the next cycle winds up having to use the Crucible or it heeds Liara's word and winds up failing because we didn't take enough Reapers down.MegaSovereign wrote...
The Night Mammoth wrote...
Festilence wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
What would that alteration to Rejection be?
Being able to beat the Reapers with super-high EMS, if I assume correctly.
Which is far more narratively coherent than any of the three options presented.
Lol what?
If organics can defeat the Reapers conventionally, then it should have been done already. And no don't tell me a united galaxy makes a **** of a difference. Unless every ship is equiped with Reaper IFFs, stealth drives, and Thanix Cannons then it simply isn't believable that the united fleets could put a dent on the Reapers.
Modifié par RolandX9, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .
The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
_aLucidMind_ wrote...
There should have been a space-battle scene showing just how badly we lost (if low EMS) up to how the Reapers sustained a significant number of losses (if EMS is high), putting in just big enough of a dent for the next cycle to be able to pull it off if. If it is a low EMS, the next cycle winds up having to use the Crucible or it heeds Liara's word and winds up failing because we didn't take enough Reapers down.MegaSovereign wrote...
The Night Mammoth wrote...
Festilence wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
What would that alteration to Rejection be?
Being able to beat the Reapers with super-high EMS, if I assume correctly.
Which is far more narratively coherent than any of the three options presented.
Lol what?
If organics can defeat the Reapers conventionally, then it should have been done already. And no don't tell me a united galaxy makes a **** of a difference. Unless every ship is equiped with Reaper IFFs, stealth drives, and Thanix Cannons then it simply isn't believable that the united fleets could put a dent on the Reapers.
ThisCyne wrote...
They do deserve credit for fixing some aspects of the ending. To be sure, this kind of gesture is rare in the gaming industry, they could have ignored it and no one would've been surprised. Did it make the ending perfect? NO NO NO not by a very long shot, but it did make it better than before.
You're exactly right.Anthropophobic wrote...
Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Even if the EC was the ending the game shipped with people would still be upset by the DEM and the space magic suddenly introduced at the end of the gameAnthropophobic wrote...
Geneaux486 wrote...
Bioware can't be given enough credit for the trouble they went to.
But only enough to make up for the credit they lost when they decided not to ship the game with an ending that would satisfy more than 1% of the fanbase.
Even if we assume the Extended Cut fixed everything (which it didn't), it should have been in the game from launch. So negative credit for Bioware.
The whole poopstorm probably wouldn't have happened, though. I just don't like how people think we owe Bioware our respect and loyalty as consumers again because they "fixed" an ending that they clearly didn't put enough effort into at first. The endings were basically exactly the same save for the colors of the explosions. Now that they've changed them a bit, people are like, well at least they got it right 3 months after everyone had bought and played the game, I love you again Bioware.
It's exactly that attitude that allows to rich to drown out the poor, the exact reason the USA is such a festering crap hole, exactly the attitude that is why nothing gets done.babachewie wrote...
Well your one of those people on here that doesnt deserved to be listened to. So Bioware should get credit fo that. If you dont like it, I suggest you move along.The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
Jenonax wrote...
saracen16 wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
Not gonna happen, unless you want to change the entire story. Having a different ending for refusal makes for HORRIBLE STORYTELLING. It deviates from the crux of ME3: the Crucible is the ONLY WAY TO STOP THE REAPERS. The evidence is there in the game.
You talk about horrible storytelling then cite a massive Deus Ex Machine as the only way to conclude a storyline as a good thing? Go learn what actual good storytelling is and then come back.
They certainly can be defeated conventionally, but I do disagree with our cycle pulling it off given the functions of the Crucible. Maybe had it exposed a significant weakness or short-circuited their shields in a way to cause some damage and break the shield/barrier generators; I feel the datapad Shepard got at the end of ME2 should have had a real significance; it seemed ignored despite it being shown as a highly significant moment.MegaSovereign wrote...
_aLucidMind_ wrote...
There should have been a space-battle scene showing just how badly we lost (if low EMS) up to how the Reapers sustained a significant number of losses (if EMS is high), putting in just big enough of a dent for the next cycle to be able to pull it off if. If it is a low EMS, the next cycle winds up having to use the Crucible or it heeds Liara's word and winds up failing because we didn't take enough Reapers down.MegaSovereign wrote...
If organics can defeat the Reapers conventionally, then it should have been done already. And no don't tell me a united galaxy makes a **** of a difference. Unless every ship is equiped with Reaper IFFs, stealth drives, and Thanix Cannons then it simply isn't believable that the united fleets could put a dent on the Reapers.
This would have been better. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that there should have been an ending where the Reapers can be defeated conventionally. That would have totally thrown away the point of having the Crucible built.
Some fans are now so blinded by their hate of the ending concepts that they'll be willing to take new narrative-contradicting concepts over them.
The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
Eluril wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.
Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.
No one cares what you think. You're an angry little troll who would've hated it no matter what.
Pot meet kettle much?Eluril wrote...
No one cares what you think. You're an angry little troll who would've hated it no matter what.
Building the Crucible is the plot of the game. It's not a McGuffin. If there was some secret "key" that we were chasing from mission to mission -- some object that didn't really mean or do anything other than justify each subsequent mission or scene -- THAT would be a mcguffin. Like the Pink Panther diamond, or the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. Building the crucible is the narrative that explains why the hell we're collecting "war assets" and why helping Kasumi and the true-Rachni queen matter. That a PLOT, not a trivial item that means nothing. It represents progress across the game. When Hackett looks out that big window after Mordin's mission and you see the huge structure coming together -- yeah, that's important. And at the end of the game when then thing turns the Citadel and the relays into a HUGE-RED-JET-OF-KILL-ALL-SYNTHETICS -- yeah, that's a tangible manifistation of it the Crucible's true importance.
Modifié par WaywardMouse, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:03 .
Modifié par Whatshisnameagain, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:03 .
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