288 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Sythesis makes no sense.

It does in the EC.

LOL! No it doesn't. 

Geneaux486 wrote...

The catalyst makes no sense.

Why?  The Reapers have always been a giant unknown.  Everything we learn about them in ME2 and ME3 is filling in information where we previously knew nothing.  The idea that there's some kind of governing force contradicts no previously established knowlege, and it actually seems likely given how organized and methodical the Reapers are anyway, especially since Sovereign boasts about how independent they are yet still working together towards the same goal 100% of the time.

Introducing new crucial plot devices in the last 10 minutes of the story is in no way good writing. No matter how hard you try, it simply can't be justified. It's terrible, just play TERRIBLE writing, to say the least.

Geneaux486 wrote...

If there was some foreshadowing of these things in earlier games I would have less of a problem with it

Not everything needs to be foreshadowed.

Crucial plot points or plot devices do.

[tettenjager]

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

They could have just said, dont like the end? **** you then.

But no, they gave us a free DLC, and now a lot more people are happy.

And i get it, you dont like mass effect 3's ending, or in general, you dont need to post EVERY 2 MINUTES (literaly) saying bioware sucks. If they suck so bad, just leave ME alone, leave Bioware alone then

[Kyneris]

BioWare improved/expanded upon the endings and addressed some of the major concers people had, all for no extra charge. Yes, I know, even with the EC the endings aren't perfect (neither is the rest of the game, but thats a whole different discussion). Bottomline: The post-EC ME3 is better than the pre-EC ME3.

Give credit where credit is due tbh.

[shurikenmanta]

Comic Book Guy: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.
Bart: For what? They’re giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? If anything, you owe them.
Comic Book Guy: Worst episode ever.

[FS3D]

That's like giving credit to someone who replaced my coffee, that I didn't order (I ordered tea), that had a fly in it, and that came in a cup that isn't fit to drink from... With another coffee in a clean cup.

Should I thank them for that?

[Sajuro]

iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

No, the Crucible was not a Deus Ex Machina.

It was a MacGuffin, which is still poor storytelling.

People use to argue that the starchild was the MacGuffin and the Crucible was the Deus Ex Machina.
And now you come along and tell everyone they're wrong.

Catalyst would be the mcguffin, crucible is the plot ticket but not deus ex machina
Still remember, tropes aren't bad

[FS3D]

tettenjager wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

They could have just said, dont like the end? **** you then.

But no, they gave us a free DLC, and now a lot more people are happy.

And i get it, you dont like mass effect 3's ending, or in general, you dont need to post EVERY 2 MINUTES (literaly) saying bioware sucks. If they suck so bad, just leave ME alone, leave Bioware alone then

I love how you guys just dismiss our objections with a "love it or leave it" statement.

I'll say this again. The Extended Cut was a solution that we specifically objected to BEFORE they started making it. I wrote a letter to one of the co-founders of BW to say this was a bad idea.

Guess what? Just like TAO, I wasn't listened to.

This isn't some wonderful instance of BioWare doing what we wanted and we're just ****ing. They did exactly what most of us DIDN'T want.

[Elite Midget]

Credit is only given when it is due.

[Funkcase]

Whilst they didn't fix everything, the EC was great, The stuff they did do made the ending good for me.

[revo76]

Mass Effect 3 and it's EC is very good game, in fact one of the best games of sci-fi; if you consider it as 1 game.

If you add Mass Effect 1 and 2 and compare all in franchise, Mass Effect 3 is just an insult to players who spent hours to franchise.

So, yes they deserve a credit for adding some creme on top of the s**t on the plate. But no matter what you add to crap, it remains as crap.

So, no they dont deserve a credit to screw my hours of gameplays and characters, as well as the only sci-fi RPG game on the market according to their artistic-integrity.

I'll keep eye on possible DLC news in here, but i will not buy EAware games in future, that book is already closed.

[shurikenmanta]

FS3D wrote...
This isn't some wonderful instance of BioWare doing what we wanted and we're just ****ing. They did exactly what some of us DIDN'T want.

FTFY.

[SpamBot2000]

shurikenmanta wrote...

Comic Book Guy: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.
Bart: For what? They’re giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? If anything, you owe them.
Comic Book Guy: Worst episode ever.

So which is it, free review copies or theft?

[Sajuro]

FS3D wrote...

I love how you guys just dismiss our objections with a "love it or leave it" statement.

I'll say this again. The Extended Cut was a solution that we specifically objected to BEFORE they started making it. I wrote a letter to one of the co-founders of BW to say this was a bad idea.

Guess what? Just like TAO, I wasn't listened to.tbey tried to please those

This isn't some wonderful instance of BioWare doing what we wanted and we're just ****ing. They did exactly what most of us DIDN'T want.

They tried to please those they could without scrapping the ending and they can't please everyone because no matter what happens there will be people upset with thw factts of the game and people looking for something to be angry at.

[shurikenmanta]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

Comic Book Guy: As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.
Bart: For what? They’re giving you thousands of hours of entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe you? If anything, you owe them.
Comic Book Guy: Worst episode ever.

So which is it, free review copies or theft?

You can't steal free DLC...

[tettenjager]

FS3D wrote...

I love how you guys just dismiss our objections with a "love it or leave it" statement.

I'll say this again. The Extended Cut was a solution that we specifically objected to BEFORE they started making it. I wrote a letter to one of the co-founders of BW to say this was a bad idea.

Guess what? Just like TAO, I wasn't listened to.

This isn't some wonderful instance of BioWare doing what we wanted and we're just ****ing. They did exactly what most of us DIDN'T want.

then wat was your sugesstion?

Modifié par tettenjager, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:55 .

[SpamBot2000]

Way to get your own argument dude. /edit @that simpsons quoting guy

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:57 .

[shurikenmanta]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Way to get your own argument dude. /edit @that simpsons quoting guy

Elaborate. The EC was free, was it not?

Either that or I beat the system.

[SpamBot2000]

shurikenmanta wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Way to get your own argument dude. /edit @that simpsons quoting guy

Elaborate. The EC was free, was it not?

Either that or I beat the system.

Mass Effect 3 cost money. Didn't do what was advertised to do. People wanted fix. Suggestion this was something extra for (to quote Simpsons back at you) "fat sarcastic Star Trek fan". 

/Edit Star Trek, not Wars. Memory fading as grow old.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:04 .

[shurikenmanta]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Way to get your own argument dude. /edit @that simpsons quoting guy

Elaborate. The EC was free, was it not?

Either that or I beat the system.

Mass Effect 3 cost money. Didn't do what was advertised to do. People wanted fix. Suggestion this was something extra for (to quote Simpsons back at you) "fat sarcastic Star Wars fan". 

Pretty sure it did, actually. Semantically, anyway.

No matter what way you look at it, you were given something extra that was not intended to originally be part of the complete product. To complain about it not being what you wanted is... first-worldish.

Modifié par shurikenmanta, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:07 .

[GroverA125]

wantedman dan wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

Completely agreed.

Likewise. It's one thing to give us some content we didn't want, It's another to then expect us to be grateful. Even in expanding and providing closure, they didn't completely succeed at that. Some of the most prominent desires from the EC were still not given to us, and we still recieved a slideshow as our "here's what all of your actions have done to everyone" scene.

Bioware have done what was expected of them as a company, nothing more. They've tried to save their hide from a PR collapse, and debatably, they have. But they have in no way done this to make fans happy. They did the EC to give them deniability. They have tried again, and so "it would be wrong to criticize them for it"

In the end, if they are so firm in their methods of refusing to give their fans what they want, we all have to ultimately accept it. It's pretty clear that they don't want the upset part of their community to be playing their games now, or in the future. They have decided to build their game in a fashion that no longer appeals to some of us. As such, not purchasing any of their content is an equally expected reaction. Surely they cannot expect you to continue paying them to get something you haven't wanted or asked for.

In other words, anyone upset about the result of the ending and EC: Feel free to never buy from them again, you're still welcome to sit here and complain about it. No-one's expecting you to do anything but what you want to do. If they want to do something different that you don't like, you don't have to buy it or even respect it.

[The Night Mammoth]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Festilence wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Nope.
I don't feel I was listened to, I don't feel my concerns were addressed. I feel directly insulted.

Can't please everyone? A minor alteration to rejection, and they would've pleased me and a lot of others, while pleasing the rest with their endings. This notion is false, and BioWare deserve no credit.

What would that alteration to Rejection be?

Being able to beat the Reapers with super-high EMS, if I assume correctly. 

Which is far more narratively coherent than any of the three options presented. 

Lol what?

If organics can defeat the Reapers conventionally, then it should have been done already. And no don't tell me a united galaxy makes a **** of a difference. Unless every ship is equiped with Reaper IFFs, stealth drives, and Thanix Cannons then it simply isn't believable that the united fleets could put a dent on the Reapers.

I never said it was a good way to end it, or that it was realistic. 

[SpamBot2000]

Semantics = The study of meaning.

[elitehunter34]

drayfish wrote...

Despite how it may sound, this is not a comment on the subject matter of the ending, just its expansion and clarification.

I find it a little sad that fans are all feeling the compulsion to grovel and whimper in respect for Bioware's attempt to fix their mistake. The original ending - whatever you thought of it - was muddled and riddled with mistakes. It was clearly rushed out, and the result was mass confusion, anger and disappointment throughout the fan base.

To their credit Bioware sought to correct their blunder (again, no matter what you think of the ending - personally I hated it) by offering a more coherent conclusion, but such sloppy material should never have been released in the first place. Face bugs, pay-walled DLC, zombie-eyes and glitching, black screens of death, and an ending that failed to even communicate its purpose, the game was far from Bioware's traditional standards.

To gush over them doing the job they promised to do in the first place sends an unsettling precedent that we, as fans and consumers, will accept anything shovelled our way, and helplessly praise it if it even approaches living up to what it first claimed to be. We have the right to be critical of a work that we paid for and that failed to fulfill the purpose its marketing insisted it would.

I'm quoting this because it seems quite a few people have completely ignored it.  It brings up several good points.  Basically, I'm in agreement with Drayfish.  Just because we aren't the creators of a product, doesn't mean that we have to like it.  The whole mentality of "You entitled whiny spoiled brat, they gave us FREE dlc and you're complaining, just go away" is not constructive, and it's insulting to the people who have legitamate problems with the DLC.  Yes, I'm happy that they gave us free dlc, but I still don't like the endings.  It was given to us becase the original ending was considered awful by a proportion of Mass Effect fans that was large enough to be noticed by Bioware, and they decided to do something about it.

Yes we do have a right to be critical of their work, just because a company releases free DLC does not give them a free pass.  I care about Mass Effect and that's why I actually go on these forums and discuss the game.  Criticism doesn't mean I hate the game, it means the exact opposite

Modifié par elitehunter34, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:33 .

[AmstradHero]

Why would people bring up a cogent argument that actually requires thought when they can just post meaningless rhetoric and attack those whose opinion they disagree with? That is increasingly the way of these forums.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree with the above post. I'm happy that BioWare attempted to do something about their missteps in the original ending. However, that doesn't mean that it wasn't poor form for them to have such a poorly written and executed ending in the first place, nor does it mean I have to be happy with the multitude of flaws still present in the EC.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .