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[Mike 9987]

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

because everyone was selfish im afraid  just not our cycle though 

Well, the protheans are the real reason the current cycle had a chance because they left behind the information first. It's hard to believe in thousands of cycles, each and every one decided to not leave information behind. the fact that the protheans can hide a huge beacon on thessia and have the asari discover it without the reapers knowing just goes to show how easy it would have been to end the reapers a long time ago. 

as far i know the information left from the protheans was for remaining (survivors) protheans which is why it was left in their language and not other language that everyone else could understand, so they werent really thinking about others but themself 

You could be right, but i remember it being said somewhere the beacon on thessia was purposely left there to be discovered by other cycles. Also, javik clearly says when you first meet him "You saw it all, our destruction, our warnings, why were they not headed?" It implies that they wanted to warn the next cycle. 

Also, why would they go through the effort to make the Prothean VI able to communicate with us then? 

the cypher:whistle:

Only shepard has the cypher. How were his team mates able to understand the VI then? 

[Zaire Taylor]

Enjou wrote...

Zaire Taylor wrote...

The Protheans took centuries to go down, and our cylce is stronger than them because of our diversity of species.

The diversity is helpful only if the races stick together. After the failure of the Crucible gambit things would likely devolve into politics as usual quite quickly, and after investing the bulk of their remaining resources into Shepard's flagship plan it's not likely they would rally around him again. Javik pointed out that the races not coming together was part of what caused the people in his cycle to lose, and it would only go back to that.

Also, it should be noted that the Protheans had more advanced technology in their cycle and this still didn't enable them to win, so our cycle isn't stronger in that respect.

So even if our cycle goes down in a relatively quickly time of one hundred years, or even if we are wiped out in the next 10 minutes (which obviously is not true) we could at least see something.

[Esquin]

Zaire Taylor wrote...

Esquin wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

I thought Bioware said they used the crucible to win.

They went out their way to show the plans in the Liara time capsule scene.

Liara says in the refuse ending "We used the crucible and it did not work." I just don't see the next cycle giving it a try after hearing of the last cycles utter destruction because it did not work. 

Actually something just occured to me. That's not all they had. We had to spend years translating and interpreting prothean data in order to uncover the crucible, and their true legacy.

The next cycle has Asari. The interesting thing about Asari is that not only do they live for a thousand years but as a species they can be never be wiped out. They're the only race that can essentially restart from a single individual. That makes a huge difference. All you need is 1 person with one of the black boxes to survive. That 1 person could have a hundred little blue children all of whom will live for 1000 years with knowledge passed down directly form someone who lived during the war.

The next cycle was always going to win. The Asari are the reason why.

People are reading into the Refusal stargazer scene way too much.  It's an asari talking because Bioware needed to put something in there as a placeholder or avatar to represent a race from the next cycle.  Much like they use a miniature adult to simulate a small child in the original stargazer scene.  It's not actually an asari talking.

Forget that scene. The other points i'm mentioning aren't any less true. As a species the Asari are almost impossible to wipe out. All they need is 1 survivor who can hide long enough to weather the war, and find a suitabble mate at the other end.

[Squallypo]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

because everyone was selfish im afraid  just not our cycle though 

Well, the protheans are the real reason the current cycle had a chance because they left behind the information first. It's hard to believe in thousands of cycles, each and every one decided to not leave information behind. the fact that the protheans can hide a huge beacon on thessia and have the asari discover it without the reapers knowing just goes to show how easy it would have been to end the reapers a long time ago. 

as far i know the information left from the protheans was for remaining (survivors) protheans which is why it was left in their language and not other language that everyone else could understand, so they werent really thinking about others but themself 

You could be right, but i remember it being said somewhere the beacon on thessia was purposely left there to be discovered by other cycles. Also, javik clearly says when you first meet him "You saw it all, our destruction, our warnings, why were they not headed?" It implies that they wanted to warn the next cycle. 

Also, why would they go through the effort to make the Prothean VI able to communicate with us then? 

the cypher:whistle:

Only shepard has the cypher. How were his team mates able to understand the VI then? 

well i dont exactly remember if other team mates listen to what the prothean says but either way that AI was able to speak threw their languages while the messages left threw the relics were not.

[wizardryforever]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

I thought Bioware said they used the crucible to win.

They went out their way to show the plans in the Liara time capsule scene.

Liara says in the refuse ending "We used the crucible and it did not work." I just don't see the next cycle giving it a try after hearing of the last cycles utter destruction because it did not work. 

Didn't stop us, now did it?  We knew that the Protheans failed with the Crucible, but we built it anyway.  Why, because it was our only hope.  It's reasonable to assume that the next cycle did the same.

I also don't get this "pandering to the Reapers" complaint.  As long as the Reapers are no longer a threat, does it really matter how you accomplish that?  I don't think I'd care overmuch if I was in Shepard's shoes, or anyone in the MEverse's shoes actually.  Besides, one of the options is to outright destroy the Reapers.  How is that "pandering" to them?  God knows you can't accomplish it any other way, so I don't know why you wouldn't do it.  It boggles the mind.

[davishepard]

Zaire Taylor wrote...

davishepard wrote...

Refusal is short because is a dumb choice.
During the whole ME3 Shepard knows that the Crucible is the only hope to defeat the Reapers, and he make alliances to build the fleet that would escort it.
Then, s/he chooses not to use it, knowing what would happen.
So yeah.

Why should I accept the Reapers' solutions to themselves?  The Catalyst is a Reaper AI, essentially.  And if I do take one, I'm just like the Heretic Geth.  I'd rather have the next cycle build their own future than take a flawed olive branch from the Reapers.  The color endings each have their long-term flaws.  I want the future of the galaxy to be nice and balanced with no worries, even if my cycle has to die.

So your Shepard fail as a leader, since he could only see things through his/her perspective. This is something you can't do when you are deciding on behalf of others. Shepard is not there to save the next cycle, but his/her own. By not using the Crucible you render useless all the sacrifices made in the war to make possible the Crucible's deployment and activation.

Well done!

[Mike 9987]

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

because everyone was selfish im afraid  just not our cycle though 

Well, the protheans are the real reason the current cycle had a chance because they left behind the information first. It's hard to believe in thousands of cycles, each and every one decided to not leave information behind. the fact that the protheans can hide a huge beacon on thessia and have the asari discover it without the reapers knowing just goes to show how easy it would have been to end the reapers a long time ago. 

as far i know the information left from the protheans was for remaining (survivors) protheans which is why it was left in their language and not other language that everyone else could understand, so they werent really thinking about others but themself 

You could be right, but i remember it being said somewhere the beacon on thessia was purposely left there to be discovered by other cycles. Also, javik clearly says when you first meet him "You saw it all, our destruction, our warnings, why were they not headed?" It implies that they wanted to warn the next cycle. 

Also, why would they go through the effort to make the Prothean VI able to communicate with us then? 

the cypher:whistle:

Only shepard has the cypher. How were his team mates able to understand the VI then? 

well i dont exactly remember if other team mates listen to what the prothean says but either way that AI was able to speak threw their languages while the messages left threw the relics were not.

Yes. The one put on thessia was made specifically to warn the next cycle. Virgil as well was able to communicate in current cycle language. 

[Mike 9987]

wizardryforever wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

I thought Bioware said they used the crucible to win.

They went out their way to show the plans in the Liara time capsule scene.

Liara says in the refuse ending "We used the crucible and it did not work." I just don't see the next cycle giving it a try after hearing of the last cycles utter destruction because it did not work. 

Didn't stop us, now did it?  We knew that the Protheans failed with the Crucible, but we built it anyway.  Why, because it was our only hope.  It's reasonable to assume that the next cycle did the same.

I also don't get this "pandering to the Reapers" complaint.  As long as the Reapers are no longer a threat, does it really matter how you accomplish that?  I don't think I'd care overmuch if I was in Shepard's shoes, or anyone in the MEverse's shoes actually.  Besides, one of the options is to outright destroy the Reapers.  How is that "pandering" to them?  God knows you can't accomplish it any other way, so I don't know why you wouldn't do it.  It boggles the mind.

It was said that the protheans never finished the crucible in the first place. 

[Obadiah]

Refusal is short for the same reason having sex with Morinth just ends the game (hmm... I bet that's what refusal did originally) - it is a dumb idea. The devs just threw it in to give players options.

[wizardryforever]

Mike 9987 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

I thought Bioware said they used the crucible to win.

They went out their way to show the plans in the Liara time capsule scene.

Liara says in the refuse ending "We used the crucible and it did not work." I just don't see the next cycle giving it a try after hearing of the last cycles utter destruction because it did not work. 

Didn't stop us, now did it?  We knew that the Protheans failed with the Crucible, but we built it anyway.  Why, because it was our only hope.  It's reasonable to assume that the next cycle did the same.

I also don't get this "pandering to the Reapers" complaint.  As long as the Reapers are no longer a threat, does it really matter how you accomplish that?  I don't think I'd care overmuch if I was in Shepard's shoes, or anyone in the MEverse's shoes actually.  Besides, one of the options is to outright destroy the Reapers.  How is that "pandering" to them?  God knows you can't accomplish it any other way, so I don't know why you wouldn't do it.  It boggles the mind.

It was said that the protheans never finished the crucible in the first place. 

But we had the plans, as would the next cycle.  They would likely analyze the plans and realize there was nothing wrong with it, and put their hopes on it regardless.  Little did they know that the Crucible only failed because Shepard was an idiot.  Too bad Liara's record doesn't reflect that.

[kiyomizu]

Why is the refusal ending so short? 


Because Mac Walters took his brat and balls and went home.  Maybe if you apologise and pick a color he might come out to play again.


Or maybe the slides were stolen by Space Magicians!

Modifié par kiyomizu, 01 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[D24O]

The pyramids are tall on this page.

[Blc949]

People want their cake and to eat it too.

It's not a middle finger. It's a valid option, and the consequences are fitting. You pick nothing the catalyst offers and roll the dice. Our cycle is still decimated, but a future cycle builds on what we did and eventually stops it.

If you don't like it, that is the joy of a video game, there's still 3 other choices you can reload up a save and go with ( only 1 other one that really seems right to me, but hey that's just me).

I was one of the most pissed of fans there was initially, but I am ok with the endings being tweaked (I just hope synth never ends up canon) and the 4th ending being added even if its short and sad.

[Mike 9987]

wizardryforever wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

I thought Bioware said they used the crucible to win.

They went out their way to show the plans in the Liara time capsule scene.

Liara says in the refuse ending "We used the crucible and it did not work." I just don't see the next cycle giving it a try after hearing of the last cycles utter destruction because it did not work. 

Didn't stop us, now did it?  We knew that the Protheans failed with the Crucible, but we built it anyway.  Why, because it was our only hope.  It's reasonable to assume that the next cycle did the same.

I also don't get this "pandering to the Reapers" complaint.  As long as the Reapers are no longer a threat, does it really matter how you accomplish that?  I don't think I'd care overmuch if I was in Shepard's shoes, or anyone in the MEverse's shoes actually.  Besides, one of the options is to outright destroy the Reapers.  How is that "pandering" to them?  God knows you can't accomplish it any other way, so I don't know why you wouldn't do it.  It boggles the mind.

It was said that the protheans never finished the crucible in the first place. 

But we had the plans, as would the next cycle.  They would likely analyze the plans and realize there was nothing wrong with it, and put their hopes on it regardless.  Little did they know that the Crucible only failed because Shepard was an idiot.  Too bad Liara's record doesn't reflect that.

How could they realize there was nothing wrong with it if they have no idea what it does? Even shep's cycle didn't know what it did, but still build it because it was never completed before and hd a chance. If the protheans specifically said "We build it to it's completion and it does nothing," would it still be built in ME3? 

[Esquin]

wizardryforever wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

I thought Bioware said they used the crucible to win.

They went out their way to show the plans in the Liara time capsule scene.

Liara says in the refuse ending "We used the crucible and it did not work." I just don't see the next cycle giving it a try after hearing of the last cycles utter destruction because it did not work. 

Didn't stop us, now did it?  We knew that the Protheans failed with the Crucible, but we built it anyway.  Why, because it was our only hope.  It's reasonable to assume that the next cycle did the same.

I also don't get this "pandering to the Reapers" complaint.  As long as the Reapers are no longer a threat, does it really matter how you accomplish that?  I don't think I'd care overmuch if I was in Shepard's shoes, or anyone in the MEverse's shoes actually.  Besides, one of the options is to outright destroy the Reapers.  How is that "pandering" to them?  God knows you can't accomplish it any other way, so I don't know why you wouldn't do it.  It boggles the mind.

It was said that the protheans never finished the crucible in the first place. 

But we had the plans, as would the next cycle.  They would likely analyze the plans and realize there was nothing wrong with it, and put their hopes on it regardless.  Little did they know that the Crucible only failed because Shepard was an idiot.  Too bad Liara's record doesn't reflect that.

The Crucible failed because it's a trap. Another way for the reapers to control us. That's all. After the nonsense of synthesis and control why would we believe destroy is even an option? And why would be believe that the avatar of the reapers is telling us anything even close to the truth? 

The only logical conclusion given the facts is that the crucible is a trap. Synthesis makes no sense and there's no reason to assume it would work. Even if it does it's just giving the reapers a different version of what they want. Control, if you play it, says pretty clearly that all it does is imprint sheps memories onto the catalyst. There's no telling how long that will last. Given the obvious fallacy in those options why would destroy be any more likely to help?

No. The only option is to destroy the crucible and the citadel. Tell the next cycle what we know. Bury all knowledge of the crucible and give them a chance to fight back some other way. Maybe with more time and better technology. 

But make mo mistake. The crucible is a trap.

[v TricKy v]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Not only that. It makes zero sense. Hundreds if not thousands of cycles were harvested by the reapers. Liara leaves an information capsule and all of the sudden it becomes enough for the next cycle (or a few after, its not clear whether or not the stargazer scene is the next cycle or not) to defeat the reapers conventionally. Liara basically told them to not bother with the crucible.

Why, in billions of years and thousands of cycles did nobody decide to leave information behind for the next cycle to defeat the reapers? All they had to do was leave some information behind and bam, no more reapers. 

Exactly what I was thinking. In our fight we probably did something which had a big impact. After all is just speculation that everyone died, because we dont know what happened after refusing the catalyst.
And the thought about the Asari crossed also my mind. If the Power didnt failed, there would have been ten thousands of Protheans surviving. Asari and Krogan can get over thousand years old and they both have special reproduction traits. Krogans spread like crazy while Asari can mate with anyone.