370 réponses à ce sujet

[Vercuric]

Oh boy, here we go.

Now, I wasn't against nerfing the Infiltrators prior to June 26. The Infiltrator has been my main class since day one, and I wholeheartedly agreed that it was overpowered. But this nerf is like taking care of termite infestation with a tactical nuke.

However, the damage output isn't nerfed as badly as I've seen some people complaining. A Javelin would now do (1030.5 base damage + 105%) 2112.525 damage per shot, as opposed to 2370.15 (1030.5 base damage + 130%). That's about an 11% difference in total damage output. Still seems like an excessive nerf to me, but I wouldn't give up on the class over it. Plus, with some of the new equipment, infiltrators lucky enough to have the right equipment bonuses can make up for the lost damage.

But who, exactly, gets to have more fun now that the Infiltrators can't cloak for more than 4 seconds without any duration bonuses? Is anybody going to have more fun now that the "activate the for thingamajigs" is far more difficult? I mean, I thought that was the original point of the cloak was to be able to get around the battlefield undetected. To get behind enemy lines and take care of objectives that other classes wouldn't be able to easily get to. Cutting that duration in HALF is just telling the infiltrators, most of which are practically made of glass, to sit back and pray that one of the other more durable teammates will get them. Either that, or die halfway through activating an objective.

And please, don't even bother suggesting to go for the duration bonus over the damage. That's really just there for novelty's sake. Nobody is going to sacrifice damage, an ability that's useful in ALL situations, for duration which is only useful for specific waves, and even then only for one specific objective type.

So yeah. Damage nerf? Fine. Duration nerf? Hayul naw. The last thing we need is more discouragement for going after objectives.

[Kick In The Door]

Everyone on BSN apparently. They seem to take pleasure in other people's pain in a co-op game.

[SilentRich]

To be fair I used my infiltrator for the first time again today and I thought it was funny how my cloak lasts for such a short time. Practically pointless if you aren't making a quick dash, plus it makes reviving team mates harder since the moment I've revived them the enemy has already seen me, shot me and displayed my head above its fireplace.

[Jackums]

It's a stupid change, IMO. Not very keen on getting involved in multiplayer again when they're nerfing things to satisfy other people in a co-op game. It seems redundant.

[AwesomeDudex64]

 Noone benefits. Really all anyone wanted was to have infiltrator's cloak to be effected by recharge speed. Which I can agree with but instead, this happened:

 

[We Tigers]

There were a lot of ways to adjust the infiltrator that wouldn't have been as drastic. I think making the base duration 6 seconds instead of 4 would have been okay, especially if they had taken 10% damage out of rank 4B instead of the base damage. No, almost no one took rank 4 duration before the balance changes, but now neither rank 4 evolution plays all that well.

[eahii]

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...

 Noone benefits. Really all anyone wanted was to have infiltrator's cloak to be effected by recharge speed. Which I can agree with but instead, this happened:

 

i just want to say a quick "thank you" for that image.  the internet had not made me laugh yet today.

[prog_bassist]

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...


 

[Tokenusername]

People that aren't infiltrators benifit.

The point of the nerf was not the damage, it was the versitily.
Pre-nerf you had a ten second cloak without any duration buff. Thus there was almost no reason to ever pick duration, because 10 seconds was more than you needed for pretty much anything.
Thus people picked damage and still could use TC utilitarianly.

With the nerf you have to choose between using it as a damage boost or a utility. You do not get both. Thus infiltrator can not fill any role, it has to pick.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

What bugs me about the cloaking is that if you count the activation and fade time, you're really only cloaked for about 3 seconds.

[Hypertion]

the Sniper Rifle damage bonus Multiplys the other bonuses by its stated number.

it does not stack additivly like you have in the inital post.

its a common mistake made and one even i used to make in the past.

Modifié par Hypertion, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:39 .

[Fox-snipe]

Tokenusername wrote...

People that aren't infiltrators benifit.

The point of the nerf was not the damage, it was the versitily.
[snip]
With the nerf you have to choose between using it as a damage boost or a utility. You do not get both. Thus infiltrator can not fill any role, it has to pick.

And yet in the majority of games, where the majority of the playerbase is (i.e. not on the forums), no one cared that Infiltrators could help with objectives.  Now the other players who essentially told Infiltrators "go do the objectives, I'm going to sit here and pad my score" need to help.  And yet they don't.

The vocal minority that makes up the forums are the only ones that have benefited (even then in most cases only their ego benefited) ruined everyone else's "fun."  That is indisputable.  I don't care if Mr.-I-can-solo-gold-with-any-class things Cloak had too many uses.  The game doesn't revolve around them.  A lot of people were happy the Infiltrator made objectives more obtainable.

Hypertion wrote...

the Sniper Rifle damage bonus Multiplys the other bonuses by its stated number.

it does not stack additivly like you have in the inital post.

its a common mistake made and one even i used to make in the past.

Except even that is a mistake according to a Bioware developer.  Unfortunately I can't find the thread/post since it was stated in passing.

[Tokenusername]

Fox-snipe wrote...
That is indisputable

That statement automaticly makes you wrong. The idea of what "fun" is opinion. Thus is disputable.
The "majority opinion" is not something that can easily gauaged. This is disputable.

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

But that is all irrelevant anyway. The nerf was not intended to please anyone. It is a balence change, intended to balence the game.
If infiltrator can do anything, there is no reason to ever use any other class. Thus this is unbalenced.
Anyone that thinks thier personal whining on a fourm caused the change has a massive ego.
Anyone that thinks other people's whining on a fourm caused the change is looking for someone to blame.

Meanwhile i'll still be picking duration and doing the objective while running half way across the map to revive your stupid ass.

[Vercuric]

Tokenusername wrote...

The nerf was not intended to please anyone.

Wow. I hope you're wrong about that. I would assume that the purpose of balancing is to make the game more FUN.

That's what I'm trying to say here. Is anybody having more FUN now that Infiltrators can't go after objectives? I can't recall a single instance of somebody having less fun because I was able to run to each of the 4 objectives, or run across the map to revive somebody.

And the base duration wasn't 10 seconds. It was 8, which is just enough time to activate one of the 4 objectives if you cloak just before you started activating it. Now it's 4 seconds. That means even if you make it to the objective and cloak just as you start, halfway through you're going to start getting shot at. Which means you go down, since infiltrators have far less durability than the other classes. Which means your allies either have to revive you, you use a medkit, and the objective takes longer to complete (if it gets completed at all). I fail to see how this duration nerf results in a net-gain for FUN  for anybody, regardless of class.

It's just encouraging infiltrators to stay back and let their teammates bleed out, and let someone else go after the objectives.

[Holy-Hamster]

Infiltrators being way more powerful = everyone plays them.

Infiltrators getting cloak nerfed = More incentive to play other classes.

Variety = good. Everyone playing infiltrators = bad.

Infiltrators are STILL the most powerful class btw. If you're getting shot while doing an objective you're doing it wrong (aka kill stuff first) or it's out in the middle and you have to be patient or have your team support you, it's not a freebie anymore.

Any infiltrators who let their teammates bleed out because they can't revive in 85% of situations are bad. Sorry. There's a few exceptions to letting someone bleed out, but very few.

[Tokenusername]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

There's a few exceptions to letting someone bleed out, but very few.

That would be when you've traded revives 6 times and you decided. "**** this i'm leaving!"
*gets revived and runs away*

[setrus86]

Vercuric wrote...

And please, don't even bother suggesting to go for the duration bonus over the damage. That's really just there for novelty's sake. Nobody is going to sacrifice damage, an ability that's useful in ALL situations, for duration which is only useful for specific waves, and even then only for one specific objective type.

So yeah. Damage nerf? Fine. Duration nerf? Hayul naw. The last thing we need is more discouragement for going after objectives.

Errr...*raises hand*...since the nerf I pick the duration bonus for several of my infiltrators...the fact that I'm not just picking damage bonus anymore feels like the nerf is something good... *ducks*

My Geth infiltrator with his GPS got the duration so he could perform his task of flanking the enemy, the GPS does enough damage without the bonus anyway...and this way he can also do objectives.
My male and female quarian infiltrators both have duration too, the former to get close with EMP grenades and his Talon, the later so she can not only get objectives, but move to the optimal position to use her Viper, a tactical sniper, rather than a heavy hitter.
My female human has the damage bonus, as well as the sniper rifle damage bonus, for her tactical cloak, which is meant to enhance the use of her black widow at whatever position decides to set up. In contrast to the female quarian, she's a heavy hitting sniper, not a tactical one. Meanwhile my male human uses duration, not only to do objectives, but to get close enough to use his scimitar and cryo blast (yes, final evolution is using a power without breaking cloak) which works very well...

So we have less infiltrators out there while I'm still having fun with the class, there's actually reasons to pick the duration bonus now and a bit less nerf-threads on BSN...I call that a win. 

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Infiltrators being way more powerful = everyone plays them.

Infiltrators getting cloak nerfed = More incentive to play other classes.

Variety = good. Everyone playing infiltrators = bad.

Infiltrators are STILL the most powerful class btw. If you're getting shot while doing an objective you're doing it wrong (aka kill stuff first) or it's out in the middle and you have to be patient or have your team support you, it's not a freebie anymore. 

Any infiltrators who let their teammates bleed out because they can't revive in 85% of situations are bad. Sorry. There's a few exceptions to letting someone bleed out, but very few.

 

...I like you. 

[dday3six]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Any infiltrators who let their teammates bleed out because they can't revive in 85% of situations are bad. Sorry. There's a few exceptions to letting someone bleed out, but very few.

I make it a habit to disregard the statements any person who states percentages which they can't draw from actual testing data.

[Holy-Hamster]

Oh come on, you're going to nitpick about 85%? It was an estimated guess. Would you be more happy if I said "Any inviltrators who let their teammates bleed out because they can't revive in -most- situations are bad"

Essentially the same thing

[Mal3fact0r]

Everyone benefits from shorter cloak. Learning teamwork makes you a better player, relying on 1 class to do objectives is not teamwork.

[Cundu_Ertur]

Tokenusername wrote...

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

But that's an absolute.
Welcome to the Sith.

[ZephyrAM]

Vercuric wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

The nerf was not intended to please anyone.

Wow. I hope you're wrong about that. I would assume that the purpose of balancing is to make the game more FUN.

That's what I'm trying to say here. Is anybody having more FUN now that Infiltrators can't go after objectives? I can't recall a single instance of somebody having less fun because I was able to run to each of the 4 objectives, or run across the map to revive somebody.

And the base duration wasn't 10 seconds. It was 8, which is just enough time to activate one of the 4 objectives if you cloak just before you started activating it. Now it's 4 seconds. That means even if you make it to the objective and cloak just as you start, halfway through you're going to start getting shot at. Which means you go down, since infiltrators have far less durability than the other classes. Which means your allies either have to revive you, you use a medkit, and the objective takes longer to complete (if it gets completed at all). I fail to see how this duration nerf results in a net-gain for FUN  for anybody, regardless of class.

It's just encouraging infiltrators to stay back and let their teammates bleed out, and let someone else go after the objectives.

Um, no actually. Infiltrators have the exact same durability as any other class that doesn't have a defense buff... which means Engineers, Adepts, any Sentinel not using Tech Armor, Turian Soldier, any Human Soldier not spec'ing AR for shields...

Sure, you can argue that these classes have drones or CC that prevent damage, thus making them more durable... just as the Infiltrator has TC to make them more durable. None of these abilities work 100% of the time, they all have down time, or range. Especially now that TC actually 'does' have downtime.

Health/Shields are race dependant, not class dependant.

[AwesomeDudex64]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Everyone benefits from shorter cloak. Learning teamwork makes you a better player, relying on 1 class to do objectives is not teamwork.

Teamwork is important but what's more important is getting the job done as quickly and efficiently as possible. This is where an infiltrator comes in. Let's say there's an objective that needs deactivation/activation/whatever, the infiltrator can disperse from the team and infiltrate past enemy lines and get to the objectives. If you really believe in team work then the other three should be able to hold the line until the infiltrator has finished the objectives and can then rejoin with the rest of the squad to unleash a can of whoop-ass.

And I know what you'll say "Oh you can just pick the duration evolution!". Yeah you can do that, I'm not; damage is way better. It simply works in more situations than duration would. You know that, I know that, and you bet your ass everyone else here knows that. More people are gonna pick damage over duration just like they always have so really, NOONE benefits from the nerf.

Modifié par AwesomeDudex64, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:35 .

[Mal3fact0r]

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Everyone benefits from shorter cloak. Learning teamwork makes you a better player, relying on 1 class to do objectives is not teamwork.

Teamwork is important but what's more important is getting the job done as quickly and efficiently as possible. This is where an infiltrator comes in. Let's say there's an objective that needs deactivation/activation/whatever, the infiltrator can disperse from the team and infiltrate past enemy lines and get to the objectives. If you really believe in team work then the other three should be able to hold the line until the infiltrator has finished the objectives and can then rejoin with the rest of the squad to unleash a can of whoop-ass.

And I know what you'll say "Oh you can just pick the duration evolution!". Yeah you can do that, I'm not; damage is way better. It simply works in more situations than duration would. You know that, I know that, and you bet your ass everyone else here knows that. More people are gonna pick damage over duration just like they always have so really NOONE benefits from the nerf.

Actually, my favorite class is the Infiltrator and while I'm not exactly thrilled with the nerfs (mainly due to BioWares reason for it) I still have 0 problems on gold, on any class.

Also, I have no intention of ever speccing for duration, damage is more useful for majority of the rounds and again, people can now learn some teamwork to get things done that I would normally do solo.

Edit: I understand what you're getting at, but people wanted a nerf and they got it.  Although I would venture to say that most of the people calling for a nerf didn't get precisely what they really wanted, which was to neuter Infiltrators damage and make them their personal obj/revive bot. 

Modifié par Mal3fact0r, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:40 .