370 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathIsHere]

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

edit: nevermind, already answered. 


edit^2: Obviously, the way to prevent "aggro dumping" is to NERF RUNNING AWAY!!!

Storm should break cloak.

Here you go, perfect example of people posting unreasonable ideas about TC, which I referred to in my previous comment.

Actually, it works in other games.  Makes stealth play nice with the rest of the game.

That's unrelated to Tactical Cloak and Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer.

Actually, all stealth systems are aggro dump systems.  The point of stealth is to avoid aggro, in a game that revolves around aggro, like ME3 MP.

The classic solution to stealth dumping aggro on the non-stealthed is to limit the movement speed so that stealth is used judiciously instead of just dumping agro all over the place all the time at the stealther's conviniance at the expense of the team.

Your argument makes no sense, I'm sorry. You'd effectively kill TC's true use (you know, a tactical cloak) so the team would be less effective. Say it's not needed all you want, but having an infiltrator go grab the objectives is more convenient for a team in any situation. It's part of their job. It's teamwork, if the team holds down their position to allow the infiltrator to get their job done. If an infiltrator can't storm in cloak, they'd have to walk to every objective just to help the team. All you're doing is encouraging more and more of the "never go for duration, camp in one spot and snipe" infiltrators that everybody hates for not rezzing/capping objectives. Your solutions don't work so scratch what I said before. Don't try again, just stop. It's painful to read your suggestions because your blind hate for Tactical Cloak shines through like the sun. You're so bias it's not even funny.

[RGFrog]

n/m

Modifié par RGFrog, 03 juillet 2012 - 04:41 .

[Kel Riever]

RGFrog wins. I am stealing his post for mine. Well said.

OH AND THEN EDITED OUT!

Well, I saw it and it was good.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 03 juillet 2012 - 04:42 .

[Striker93175]

nicethugbert wrote...

.......

Actually, all stealth systems are aggro dump systems.  The point of stealth is to avoid aggro, in a game that revolves around aggro, like ME3 MP.

The classic solution to stealth dumping aggro on the non-stealthed is to limit the movement speed so that stealth is used judiciously instead of just dumping agro all over the place all the time at the stealther's conviniance at the expense of the team.

[Jebel Krong]

Striker93175 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

.......

Actually, all stealth systems are aggro dump systems.  The point of stealth is to avoid aggro, in a game that revolves around aggro, like ME3 MP.

The classic solution to stealth dumping aggro on the non-stealthed is to limit the movement speed so that stealth is used judiciously instead of just dumping agro all over the place all the time at the stealther's conviniance at the expense of the team.

id lol but it will probably turn out to be true...

[Tankcommander]

Feauce wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I don't think it encourages more infiltrators to use TC solely as a damage booster.  People who already were using it primarily for this will still use it for this.  People who used it for objectives and to rez will still use it for these purposes.  Infs aren't just going to quit doing objectives and reviving teammates, even if it is a bit harder now.  And people who used Tac Cloak primarily for the cloak are going to spec duration.

I have huge issues with this bit.

The change made it only useful as either a damage booster or revives/objectives, not a balance of both, and there should be an option for that. For example, my salarian Infiltrator was spec'd for Damage and Power Use, which means I can't use it for grabbing objectives within sight of the enemy anymore. Would you care to guess what my salarian won't be doing now?

It doesn't take much to see that ~5 sec duration isn't long enough to get much tactical use out of Tactical Cloak beyond tactically shooting someone in the face for a damage buff. Even with a character that picks Duration, it's only barely enough time for objectives. If you run up to an objective while visible, Cloak, and immediately start, your Cloak drops just as the objective completes. There's no room for error or a quick Cloaked dash from cover like you could've done before with the Duration-buffed Cloak.

Exactly. Those of us who want a blend now have become damage infiltrators, and people who couldn't DPS worth crap anyway now go duration and barely complete the objective. Reviving is easier with other classes since enemies see right through the cloak now. A smash or Ballistic Blades burst opens up the way to a revive much better now.

If duration was much higher, or allowed cloak past a revive or objective, we'd see it alot more, and I'd be happy to give up some of my damage for it. But with the huge delay and the fact enemies ignore TC anyway, duration bonus up to ~12sec (7 or so useful seconds) isn't appealing to me at all. Especially since I drop ~900 damage per cloak cycle.

[Chealec]

COLZ7R wrote...

@cheelec
and does that mean that you are putting your ideas on what is fun and balanced on the vast majority not arrogant!!!! Nerfers were even in the minority on here if you remember.
Really people in glass houses should not fling stones

No - because I've never claimed to speak for the majority; I've merely stated what I thought would be good, or agreed or disagreed with other people... no arrogance in stating your own opinion (unless you're opinion is "I am better than everyone else" of course).

The fact that BioWare happened to agree with the TC changes proposed by the balance team is incidental - nerfers and buffers never forced any changes on anyone, that's entirely down to BioWare; and whenever there's a change some people will love it whilst others hate it.

Even if the majority don't like something that doesn't make it wrong and conversely the minority liking something doesn't make it right ... apartheid for example, but that's all a bit too heavy for something that's, well, a game.

[nicethugbert]

RGFrog wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Actually, all stealth systems are aggro dump systems.  The point of stealth is to avoid aggro, in a game that revolves around aggro, like ME3 MP.

The classic solution to stealth dumping aggro on the non-stealthed is to limit the movement speed so that stealth is used judiciously instead of just dumping agro all over the place all the time at the stealther's conviniance at the expense of the team.

 

Broken record. You are going to be shot at no matter what.

You're going to be shot at more when there are fewer players for the AI to shoot at. There are a number of ways this can happen.

Get used to it. Nerfing cloak again will do nothing to change this. The game will get no easier. You will not be able to run off on your own on the other side of the map and take on a horde any easier. You will not be able to hide behind cover and get flanked less. You will not get any more kills than you do now. Your score will not change. Matches will not have more credits or xp, nor will they play out any faster. You will still be a liability to your team since you obviously can't handle being shot at. The enemy AI will not just wander around the map aimlessly to avoid aggro'ng you.

The fact is, aggro or not, the enemy ai is predictable. If aggro gets you bent out of shape then it means you haven't or can't predict and adapt. Which is all your problem and no one else's.

Aggro itself is a good thing. It means objectives can be completed faster/eaiser. It means pressure can be relieved from a player(s) if someone knows how to manipulate it. It means that those complaining about aggro merely see all problems as external with only external solutions.

Or, I could just bleed aout.  Then it's your problem.  Get used to it.

[nicethugbert]

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

edit: nevermind, already answered. 


edit^2: Obviously, the way to prevent "aggro dumping" is to NERF RUNNING AWAY!!!

Storm should break cloak.

Here you go, perfect example of people posting unreasonable ideas about TC, which I referred to in my previous comment.

Actually, it works in other games.  Makes stealth play nice with the rest of the game.

That's unrelated to Tactical Cloak and Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer.

Actually, all stealth systems are aggro dump systems.  The point of stealth is to avoid aggro, in a game that revolves around aggro, like ME3 MP.

The classic solution to stealth dumping aggro on the non-stealthed is to limit the movement speed so that stealth is used judiciously instead of just dumping agro all over the place all the time at the stealther's conviniance at the expense of the team.

Your argument makes no sense, I'm sorry. You'd effectively kill TC's true use (you know, a tactical cloak) so the team would be less effective. Say it's not needed all you want, but having an infiltrator go grab the objectives is more convenient for a team in any situation. It's part of their job. It's teamwork, if the team holds down their position to allow the infiltrator to get their job done. If an infiltrator can't storm in cloak, they'd have to walk to every objective just to help the team. All you're doing is encouraging more and more of the "never go for duration, camp in one spot and snipe" infiltrators that everybody hates for not rezzing/capping objectives. Your solutions don't work so scratch what I said before. Don't try again, just stop. It's painful to read your suggestions because your blind hate for Tactical Cloak shines through like the sun. You're so bias it's not even funny.

It wouldn't be any less tactical.  It would be more tactical.  You would have to be more aware of your surroundings and make better use of them.

[m4sterch3f]

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...

 Noone benefits. Really all anyone wanted was to have infiltrator's cloak to be effected by recharge speed. Which I can agree with but instead, this happened:

 

what he said wow do these forums have me entertained today

[DeathIsHere]

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

edit: nevermind, already answered. 


edit^2: Obviously, the way to prevent "aggro dumping" is to NERF RUNNING AWAY!!!

Storm should break cloak.

Here you go, perfect example of people posting unreasonable ideas about TC, which I referred to in my previous comment.

Actually, it works in other games.  Makes stealth play nice with the rest of the game.

That's unrelated to Tactical Cloak and Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer.

Actually, all stealth systems are aggro dump systems.  The point of stealth is to avoid aggro, in a game that revolves around aggro, like ME3 MP.

The classic solution to stealth dumping aggro on the non-stealthed is to limit the movement speed so that stealth is used judiciously instead of just dumping agro all over the place all the time at the stealther's conviniance at the expense of the team.

Your argument makes no sense, I'm sorry. You'd effectively kill TC's true use (you know, a tactical cloak) so the team would be less effective. Say it's not needed all you want, but having an infiltrator go grab the objectives is more convenient for a team in any situation. It's part of their job. It's teamwork, if the team holds down their position to allow the infiltrator to get their job done. If an infiltrator can't storm in cloak, they'd have to walk to every objective just to help the team. All you're doing is encouraging more and more of the "never go for duration, camp in one spot and snipe" infiltrators that everybody hates for not rezzing/capping objectives. Your solutions don't work so scratch what I said before. Don't try again, just stop. It's painful to read your suggestions because your blind hate for Tactical Cloak shines through like the sun. You're so bias it's not even funny.

It wouldn't be any less tactical.  It would be more tactical.  You would have to be more aware of your surroundings and make better use of them.

That doesn't make Cloak more tactical. That makes Cloak less effective and harder to use. While we're at it, let's give all enemies sync kills, including swarmers. That makes everything more tactical, right? One hit and you're dead! You have to pay attention to your surroundings! Do you see the argument you're making now? Making something harder to use or harder to play doesn't make it better. Tactical Cloak is meant for allowing repositioning as well as revives and objective caps and, you know, infiltrating. Not being able to storm ruins a lot of that, as you're gonna end up having to cloak in plain sight just to be in cloak for what you're needing to do. So you'd be, as I said, killing cloak's main purpose. You seem as if you want every infiltrator to sit in one spot and camp, sniping everything. That's about the most effective thing you could do with any of the things you've suggested. Camp and snipe. Cloak wouldn't have much of a use apart from sniping at that point. Yay, you're invisible, but you can only walk slowly and the longest you can be in cloak is ten seconds. You've made no sensible suggestions and really no attempt to hide your obvious bias. Please, leave this topic and quit whining about aggro dump (which I know is all you care about, not balance). It's not going anywhere and you're gonna have to deal with that.

[nicethugbert]

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

dday3six wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sinapus wrote...

edit: nevermind, already answered. 


edit^2: Obviously, the way to prevent "aggro dumping" is to NERF RUNNING AWAY!!!

Storm should break cloak.

Here you go, perfect example of people posting unreasonable ideas about TC, which I referred to in my previous comment.

Actually, it works in other games.  Makes stealth play nice with the rest of the game.

That's unrelated to Tactical Cloak and Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer.

Actually, all stealth systems are aggro dump systems.  The point of stealth is to avoid aggro, in a game that revolves around aggro, like ME3 MP.

The classic solution to stealth dumping aggro on the non-stealthed is to limit the movement speed so that stealth is used judiciously instead of just dumping agro all over the place all the time at the stealther's conviniance at the expense of the team.

Your argument makes no sense, I'm sorry. You'd effectively kill TC's true use (you know, a tactical cloak) so the team would be less effective. Say it's not needed all you want, but having an infiltrator go grab the objectives is more convenient for a team in any situation. It's part of their job. It's teamwork, if the team holds down their position to allow the infiltrator to get their job done. If an infiltrator can't storm in cloak, they'd have to walk to every objective just to help the team. All you're doing is encouraging more and more of the "never go for duration, camp in one spot and snipe" infiltrators that everybody hates for not rezzing/capping objectives. Your solutions don't work so scratch what I said before. Don't try again, just stop. It's painful to read your suggestions because your blind hate for Tactical Cloak shines through like the sun. You're so bias it's not even funny.

It wouldn't be any less tactical.  It would be more tactical.  You would have to be more aware of your surroundings and make better use of them.

That doesn't make Cloak more tactical. That makes Cloak less effective and harder to use. While we're at it, let's give all enemies sync kills, including swarmers. That makes everything more tactical, right? One hit and you're dead! You have to pay attention to your surroundings! Do you see the argument you're making now? Making something harder to use or harder to play doesn't make it better. Tactical Cloak is meant for allowing repositioning as well as revives and objective caps and, you know, infiltrating. Not being able to storm ruins a lot of that, as you're gonna end up having to cloak in plain sight just to be in cloak for what you're needing to do. So you'd be, as I said, killing cloak's main purpose. You seem as if you want every infiltrator to sit in one spot and camp, sniping everything. That's about the most effective thing you could do with any of the things you've suggested. Camp and snipe. Cloak wouldn't have much of a use apart from sniping at that point. Yay, you're invisible, but you can only walk slowly and the longest you can be in cloak is ten seconds. You've made no sensible suggestions and really no attempt to hide your obvious bias. Please, leave this topic and quit whining about aggro dump (which I know is all you care about, not balance). It's not going anywhere and you're gonna have to deal with that.

Tactical cloak is meant to be exactly what it is, aggro dump and get a huge damage bonus.  Huge damage bonus is one thing.  But, aggro dump is incredibly ****ed up.  It's training. it's grieifng.  And, yes, not being able to storm would ruin a lot of that aggro dump crap. 

When all is said and done, all the other classes have to make due without an aggro dumping power.  TC is entirely unecessary.

[Kel Riever]

pyramid fail

[GallowsPole]

If one would look at the overall argument FOR TC (objective cap and reviving judging by the majority of these posts), then a modest damage base should be given like every other class, but giver bonuses when TC is used for objectives and revivals. So basically a character like every other that is given a specialty bonus for, you know, their specialty.

[Kyerea]

Tokenusername wrote...

People that aren't infiltrators benifit.

The point of the nerf was not the damage, it was the versitily.
Pre-nerf you had a ten second cloak without any duration buff. Thus there was almost no reason to ever pick duration, because 10 seconds was more than you needed for pretty much anything.
Thus people picked damage and still could use TC utilitarianly.

With the nerf you have to choose between using it as a damage boost or a utility. You do not get both. Thus infiltrator can not fill any role, it has to pick.

Thank you for posting that lol, was going to post the same thing. Now Infiltrators have two defined roles post-nerf, the Recon or the Assassin. Take your pick at Rank 4.

[DeathIsHere]

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...


Your argument makes no sense, I'm sorry. You'd effectively kill TC's true use (you know, a tactical cloak) so the team would be less effective. Say it's not needed all you want, but having an infiltrator go grab the objectives is more convenient for a team in any situation. It's part of their job. It's teamwork, if the team holds down their position to allow the infiltrator to get their job done. If an infiltrator can't storm in cloak, they'd have to walk to every objective just to help the team. All you're doing is encouraging more and more of the "never go for duration, camp in one spot and snipe" infiltrators that everybody hates for not rezzing/capping objectives. Your solutions don't work so scratch what I said before. Don't try again, just stop. It's painful to read your suggestions because your blind hate for Tactical Cloak shines through like the sun. You're so bias it's not even funny.

It wouldn't be any less tactical.  It would be more tactical.  You would have to be more aware of your surroundings and make better use of them.

That doesn't make Cloak more tactical. That makes Cloak less effective and harder to use. While we're at it, let's give all enemies sync kills, including swarmers. That makes everything more tactical, right? One hit and you're dead! You have to pay attention to your surroundings! Do you see the argument you're making now? Making something harder to use or harder to play doesn't make it better. Tactical Cloak is meant for allowing repositioning as well as revives and objective caps and, you know, infiltrating. Not being able to storm ruins a lot of that, as you're gonna end up having to cloak in plain sight just to be in cloak for what you're needing to do. So you'd be, as I said, killing cloak's main purpose. You seem as if you want every infiltrator to sit in one spot and camp, sniping everything. That's about the most effective thing you could do with any of the things you've suggested. Camp and snipe. Cloak wouldn't have much of a use apart from sniping at that point. Yay, you're invisible, but you can only walk slowly and the longest you can be in cloak is ten seconds. You've made no sensible suggestions and really no attempt to hide your obvious bias. Please, leave this topic and quit whining about aggro dump (which I know is all you care about, not balance). It's not going anywhere and you're gonna have to deal with that.

Tactical cloak is meant to be exactly what it is, aggro dump and get a huge damage bonus.  Huge damage bonus is one thing.  But, aggro dump is incredibly ****ed up.  It's training. it's grieifng.  And, yes, not being able to storm would ruin a lot of that aggro dump crap. 

When all is said and done, all the other classes have to make due without an aggro dumping power.  TC is entirely unecessary.

All the other classes don't get an aggro dump power because it doesnt make sense for them to have one. In fact, to be honest, Vanguards do kinda have an aggro dumping power depending on how they use it. If you and a Vanguard are being flanked by 5-6 enemies and the vanguard charges an enemy halfway across the map, he just dumped whatever aggro he had to you.

The worst part of your argument though is that you're just wrong. Not being able to storm would cause people to stay in cloak longer thus dumping more aggro on you. Not that the aggro dump is a big deal, you make it sound as if when somebody cloaks you get every enemy targetted to you immediately. Doesn't work like that. Sometimes they'll shoot at where the infiltrator was last. It all depends. In a team of 4, a couple infiltrators will simply help funnel enemies to you while also dealing massive damage to the ones they get in their sights. Apart from repositioning and rez/objectives (which are helpful to the entire team), an infiltrator won't be in cloak all that long. Not much aggro dumped.

So yeah, you won't be making any argument that'll sway me whatsoever. I doubt you'll sway anybody because all of your posts come off as "I get aggro dumped on me, remove tactical cloak because I can't handle the extra couple enemies." so nobody wants to listen to you.

Modifié par DeathIsHere, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:48 .

[Psycho Pisces]

So been playing straight up damage infil since the "Adjustment" ... Great scores, fun on silver .. but since the "adjustment" I've noticed that everybody else has just gotten idiotic. Even when I straight up tell people that my MQI is going damage w/ grenade gear added... They wont touch pizza's or hack points.. Heck two people refused to extract because A: bronze isn't worth medigel (Direct quote) and B: it was my job to go rez the downed people.

I lol'd and we got a partial.. Seriously though having great fun w/ the adjustments.. So sorry everyone else had a lobotomy, 5 sec's just isn't enough to hack a point without support.. don't want to give the infil any support? I ain't doin objectives

[greghorvath]

death_for_sale wrote...

greghorvath wrote...
*snip*

The post had a link to official statistics released by BW. Obviously you bring nothing to the discussion but your own anecdotal experiences and, at least in your last couple of posts, seem to be simply a troll. I'm sorry if you feel the balance changes were not needed, thankfully BW thought differently.

O sancta simplicitas!

greghorvath wrote...
Contrary to how it may seem, I have no problems with TC nerf per se. I just don't agree with how it was made.

Page 6. This thread.

Engaging in a discussion without looking up the precedents and arguing against something not actually there on top of that is not indicative of intelligence...

The official stats you link were:
1. very old
2. devoid of actual breakdown for different difficulty levels
3. a simple marketing tool stressing volume without actually being quality information
4. on a desktop wallpaper...

In short: outdated, general numbers with a focus on appearance. Well referenced. Good job.

But you know what? You are right and I am wrong. Sorry for posting.

Modifié par greghorvath, 04 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[nicethugbert]

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...


Your argument makes no sense, I'm sorry. You'd effectively kill TC's true use (you know, a tactical cloak) so the team would be less effective. Say it's not needed all you want, but having an infiltrator go grab the objectives is more convenient for a team in any situation. It's part of their job. It's teamwork, if the team holds down their position to allow the infiltrator to get their job done. If an infiltrator can't storm in cloak, they'd have to walk to every objective just to help the team. All you're doing is encouraging more and more of the "never go for duration, camp in one spot and snipe" infiltrators that everybody hates for not rezzing/capping objectives. Your solutions don't work so scratch what I said before. Don't try again, just stop. It's painful to read your suggestions because your blind hate for Tactical Cloak shines through like the sun. You're so bias it's not even funny.

It wouldn't be any less tactical.  It would be more tactical.  You would have to be more aware of your surroundings and make better use of them.

That doesn't make Cloak more tactical. That makes Cloak less effective and harder to use. While we're at it, let's give all enemies sync kills, including swarmers. That makes everything more tactical, right? One hit and you're dead! You have to pay attention to your surroundings! Do you see the argument you're making now? Making something harder to use or harder to play doesn't make it better. Tactical Cloak is meant for allowing repositioning as well as revives and objective caps and, you know, infiltrating. Not being able to storm ruins a lot of that, as you're gonna end up having to cloak in plain sight just to be in cloak for what you're needing to do. So you'd be, as I said, killing cloak's main purpose. You seem as if you want every infiltrator to sit in one spot and camp, sniping everything. That's about the most effective thing you could do with any of the things you've suggested. Camp and snipe. Cloak wouldn't have much of a use apart from sniping at that point. Yay, you're invisible, but you can only walk slowly and the longest you can be in cloak is ten seconds. You've made no sensible suggestions and really no attempt to hide your obvious bias. Please, leave this topic and quit whining about aggro dump (which I know is all you care about, not balance). It's not going anywhere and you're gonna have to deal with that.

Tactical cloak is meant to be exactly what it is, aggro dump and get a huge damage bonus.  Huge damage bonus is one thing.  But, aggro dump is incredibly ****ed up.  It's training. it's grieifng.  And, yes, not being able to storm would ruin a lot of that aggro dump crap. 

When all is said and done, all the other classes have to make due without an aggro dumping power.  TC is entirely unecessary.

All the other classes don't get an aggro dump power because it doesnt make sense for them to have one. In fact, to be honest, Vanguards do kinda have an aggro dumping power depending on how they use it. If you and a Vanguard are being flanked by 5-6 enemies and the vanguard charges an enemy halfway across the map, he just dumped whatever aggro he had to you.

The worst part of your argument though is that you're just wrong. Not being able to storm would cause people to stay in cloak longer thus dumping more aggro on you. Not that the aggro dump is a big deal, you make it sound as if when somebody cloaks you get every enemy targetted to you immediately. Doesn't work like that. Sometimes they'll shoot at where the infiltrator was last. It all depends. In a team of 4, a couple infiltrators will simply help funnel enemies to you while also dealing massive damage to the ones they get in their sights. Apart from repositioning and rez/objectives (which are helpful to the entire team), an infiltrator won't be in cloak all that long. Not much aggro dumped.

So yeah, you won't be making any argument that'll sway me whatsoever. I doubt you'll sway anybody because all of your posts come off as "I get aggro dumped on me, remove tactical cloak because I can't handle the extra couple enemies." so nobody wants to listen to you.

If the vanguard behind cover with you can see enemies halfway across the map, then so can you, and so can they.  Which means you're both drawing their aggro.   When he charges over to them, he is drawing their aggro, not you.  Now you are drawing the aggro of the stuff that was around you.  there is no net aggro dump.  the aggro has been split.  

If it had been an infiltrator behind cover with you, all the agrro would have been all yours.  So, there is no comparison between a Vanguard and an Infiltrator.

If storm broke cloak then people would have to approach their destination carefully, using cloak tactically when there isn't something around to break LOS, the way real infiltrators do.

[Delibea]

It's not so hard to get the point:
GI (Claymore/PM) got only 10% nerf
SR got 25% nerf and a few time to place headshot (obviously I'm talking about real SR not Jerico Krysae user)
P.s. SR were also affected by Shield Gate

Modifié par Delibea, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:05 .

[DeathIsHere]

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...


Your argument makes no sense, I'm sorry. You'd effectively kill TC's true use (you know, a tactical cloak) so the team would be less effective. Say it's not needed all you want, but having an infiltrator go grab the objectives is more convenient for a team in any situation. It's part of their job. It's teamwork, if the team holds down their position to allow the infiltrator to get their job done. If an infiltrator can't storm in cloak, they'd have to walk to every objective just to help the team. All you're doing is encouraging more and more of the "never go for duration, camp in one spot and snipe" infiltrators that everybody hates for not rezzing/capping objectives. Your solutions don't work so scratch what I said before. Don't try again, just stop. It's painful to read your suggestions because your blind hate for Tactical Cloak shines through like the sun. You're so bias it's not even funny.

It wouldn't be any less tactical.  It would be more tactical.  You would have to be more aware of your surroundings and make better use of them.

That doesn't make Cloak more tactical. That makes Cloak less effective and harder to use. While we're at it, let's give all enemies sync kills, including swarmers. That makes everything more tactical, right? One hit and you're dead! You have to pay attention to your surroundings! Do you see the argument you're making now? Making something harder to use or harder to play doesn't make it better. Tactical Cloak is meant for allowing repositioning as well as revives and objective caps and, you know, infiltrating. Not being able to storm ruins a lot of that, as you're gonna end up having to cloak in plain sight just to be in cloak for what you're needing to do. So you'd be, as I said, killing cloak's main purpose. You seem as if you want every infiltrator to sit in one spot and camp, sniping everything. That's about the most effective thing you could do with any of the things you've suggested. Camp and snipe. Cloak wouldn't have much of a use apart from sniping at that point. Yay, you're invisible, but you can only walk slowly and the longest you can be in cloak is ten seconds. You've made no sensible suggestions and really no attempt to hide your obvious bias. Please, leave this topic and quit whining about aggro dump (which I know is all you care about, not balance). It's not going anywhere and you're gonna have to deal with that.

Tactical cloak is meant to be exactly what it is, aggro dump and get a huge damage bonus.  Huge damage bonus is one thing.  But, aggro dump is incredibly ****ed up.  It's training. it's grieifng.  And, yes, not being able to storm would ruin a lot of that aggro dump crap. 

When all is said and done, all the other classes have to make due without an aggro dumping power.  TC is entirely unecessary.

All the other classes don't get an aggro dump power because it doesnt make sense for them to have one. In fact, to be honest, Vanguards do kinda have an aggro dumping power depending on how they use it. If you and a Vanguard are being flanked by 5-6 enemies and the vanguard charges an enemy halfway across the map, he just dumped whatever aggro he had to you.

The worst part of your argument though is that you're just wrong. Not being able to storm would cause people to stay in cloak longer thus dumping more aggro on you. Not that the aggro dump is a big deal, you make it sound as if when somebody cloaks you get every enemy targetted to you immediately. Doesn't work like that. Sometimes they'll shoot at where the infiltrator was last. It all depends. In a team of 4, a couple infiltrators will simply help funnel enemies to you while also dealing massive damage to the ones they get in their sights. Apart from repositioning and rez/objectives (which are helpful to the entire team), an infiltrator won't be in cloak all that long. Not much aggro dumped.

So yeah, you won't be making any argument that'll sway me whatsoever. I doubt you'll sway anybody because all of your posts come off as "I get aggro dumped on me, remove tactical cloak because I can't handle the extra couple enemies." so nobody wants to listen to you.

If the vanguard behind cover with you can see enemies halfway across the map, then so can you, and so can they.  Which means you're both drawing their aggro.   When he charges over to them, he is drawing their aggro, not you.  Now you are drawing the aggro of the stuff that was around you.  there is no net aggro dump.  the aggro has been split.  

If it had been an infiltrator behind cover with you, all the agrro would have been all yours.  So, there is no comparison between a Vanguard and an Infiltrator.

If storm broke cloak then people would have to approach their destination carefully, using cloak tactically when there isn't something around to break LOS, the way real infiltrators do.

The aggro bit was a bad example, yeah, but the point remains that other classes don't make sense to have an aggro dump power. Infiltrators do and have had it since ME2.

As far as the storm thing, you just don't understand what I'm trying to say to you. All you'd be doing with that is making it harder for people to get to places quickly and it make your problem with cloak worse. If they took storm away and kept the duration at 10 seconds, it would kill cloak (again, I know this is your intention but it ain't happening). You wouldn't be able to use it tactically if you could only casually walk for 10 seconds. There'd be no reason to take duration again and everybody would become camping snipers. The solution to that would be to increase the time in cloak so it could actually be used effectively, thus dumping more aggro. This suggestion is just bad. It'd never happen.

[Poison_Berrie]

Delibea wrote...

It's not so hard to get the point:
GI (Claymore/PM) got only 10% nerf
SR got 25% nerf and a few time to place headshot (obviously I'm talking about real SR not Jerico Krysae user)
P.s. SR were also affected by Shield Gate

SR got 13-15%. Trust me, myself and others have done the math a few times.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:37 .

[Zso_Zso]

Psycho Pisces wrote...
So sorry everyone else had a lobotomy, 5 sec's just isn't enough to hack a point without support.. don't want to give the infil any support? I ain't doin objectives

My infi is also damage specd and I will not reset it to change. And I still do objectives, I just die a lot more due to running out of cloak in the middle. If the team does not provide support fire to keep the enemy off me, I will die and the objectives is not complete.

So yeah, the team "benefits" greatly. As in: they have to learn to provide suppressing fire...