370 réponses à ce sujet

[thegamefreek78648]

While I cant point to where this was said [because quite frankly I do not remember and it was a few days ago] this may not be the last adjustment to Infiltrators that Bioware makes, this is just the initial change, they are going to sit back and watch how the changes effect things before making any other changes that directly or indirectly effect infiltrators.

It was also mentioned that over 30% of characters used were infiltrators and that it had been at that level for quite some time, the changes they made will give them a better idea if its just because people love playing infiltrators or if they are in fact OP

[MeatmanMatt]

Pitznik wrote...

greghorvath wrote...


yes, that is very nice. What a shame the percentage of infiltrators was nowhere near alarming in gold and almost optimal in lower difficulties. Otherwise you are right.

33% out of 6 classes is double of what it should be. How is that nowhere near alarming compared to 15% on silver/bronze?

33% out of 5 more like. Everyone knows what happens if you try playing vanguard on Gold...
Add to the fact that infiltrators are less buggy than pretty much every other class out there (Biotics not hitting due to stupidly high dodge rate in gold, and when it does hit, no effect; Stunlock on Krogen, Batarian and Turian being almost unbearable) etc. It doesn't surprise me that it was so proportionally high.

It wouldn't surprise me if it goes up post nerf, as most PUG games will have 2 infiltrators. 1 specced for damage for killing stuff, and 1 for duration for the objectives.

[DarkSpooky]

Permafrost27 wrote...

Drasynd wrote...

Thanks, NERFERS, I've changed my play style.

If the objective is to kill something - OK
But with hack, activate, deactivate or FedEx - sorry, I'll give you covering fire but that's all.
Also Run'n'Gun, vanguards and anyone with reegar, krysae or harrier - sorry, NO HEALS.

There other conditions that also warrant the "no heal" tactic, but at least the rest of the team might get healed. Unfortunately, that depends on how many enemy's there are that I CAN'T CLOAK past.

So NERFERS have fun, I'll still be a infiltrator, won't be doing as much TC DMG or healing or objectives, but that was the point wasn't it.

And @Holy-Hamster, once I get the other classes I have to lvl 20, I'll promote them and then it's INFILTRATORS ONLY, so you and your incentives can go jump into a volcano (normally I'd say "in a lake" but not in this case).

What's "Run n Gun"?

... You serious? It means to fire on the move.

As for the TC nerf, I hate it, but that is just me. Honestly I think the problem stems from a lot of poor design choices when it comes to MP, it really lacks long-term playability. The RNG system for the store makes frustration too much of a problem to be worth it to players in the long run, making them want to quit rather than throwing thier controllers at the TV because the stupid store did not give them a UR after 5 million creds. Not to mention that promoting does nothing to benefit you, while wiping away what you built before (a fool move considering people who put effort into things like that) and the ability to experiment is outright strangled by forcing the use of respec cards which are not uncommon (with consumables and gear) and can take quite a bit of time to finally get. Even if you are a lucky enough **** to get all UR to rank 10, what then? Play for fun? What would be the point?

Sorry to rant, seems I am getting burned out, between the game and BSN where things are starting to get a little too much like 4chan for my tastes.

[Holy-Hamster]

Biotics are fine

However I would agree that batarians, krogans and turians definately need some mobility or more defenses. Krogan vanguards are fine but the rest, not so much.

And yeah, vanguards don't get played because they glitch out so much which needs to be fixed.

[Drasynd]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

You seem angry.

If you're having troubles with objectives then that's a player problem, not a class problem.

But basically you just posted this because suddenly you're not as OP as before and you're unhappy about it.

Want some more tissues?

Sorry, no, I'm not having problems doing them, it's more simpler than that, I WON'T do them. Understand now.

When it comes to the "OP as before" idiotism, yeah right. I'm not even using the STRONGEST weapons in game, since I actually care about weight of said weapons.
From my point of view, the best is the Mantis, low weight, with the right mods does good DMG, but it ain't the strongest, and strangely I've actually started to like the N7 Valiant, due to it's rapid-fire.

Want some tissues, no, but once you see that most infiltrators just adjust to the change, your going to need them, since there will be another river you need to cry (or should I say lake, NERFER tears are the best tears, it shows how weak they are).

Also, Run'n'Gun - are krogan, vorcha, all vanguards, the shotgun squad, basicly anyone who rushes, charges, etc..   you should get the idea. The original term came from games that you could run thru the playing area and shoot anything that got in your way, without even slowing you down in the progress.

Modifié par Drasynd, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:41 .

[greghorvath]

MeatmanMatt wrote...
33% out of 5 more like.

I think we can stick to 3,5 with soldiers being the 0,5. You rarely encounter sentinels as well, so that's a  -1.

[Holy-Hamster]

So you admit you're not a team player. That gives me a good indication of what you're like.

strong weapons in the game has nothing to do with weight, what point are you trying to make here?

Why am I going to need tissues? I've adjusted just fine, I still score 150k-200k as an infiltrator and also get 5-20 revives per game, I also help with all the objectives

Your post makes no sense

[DeathIsHere]

Vercuric wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

The nerf was not intended to please anyone.

Wow. I hope you're wrong about that. I would assume that the purpose of balancing is to make the game more FUN.

It was nerfed because it was popular and efficient. Bioware pretty much admitted that themselves. Infiltrators were used 33% of the time on Gold, so TC needed to be nerfed. Which isn't really looking at the whole picture, imo (a lot of teams prefer to have infiltrators go cap objectives, which is probably a big reason for their usage), but whatever. There were multiple ways it could have been pulled off that wouldn't have screwed so much over with the infiltrator.

Hell, had they pushed some of the damage bonus fron the rank 4 evolution to the base damage so people taking duration wouldn't be hit *as* badly, it'd have been much better. I would have moved about 10% to the base (making it 60%, going off the original damage bonus) and made the duration 6 seconds. That would allow the rank 3 duration bonus to up it to 7.8 seconds for people who take pure damage. From there, you could drop the Rank 4 evolution 10% more (as they did to the base) so the overall damage bonus would decrease, then do a small nerf on both melee and sniper increases on the following levels. That would have worked out much better, because as it stands, taking duration leaves you with a 40% damage bonus unless you're doing melee (90%) or sniper rifles (50%, probably did the math wrong here as I'm not all that up to date on how the multiplicative bonus works).

As it stands, I'd say shotgun infiltrators took the biggest blow. The duration really hurts them as they can't get in close at this point since apparently the first three seconds of cloak are bugged and don't work right. So you have one second to do anything, and getting in close without cloak on = bullets to your face. Not fun. Taking duration would leave them with a 40% damage bonus that likely won't kill the enemy, leaving them cloaked next to a (likely) mob of enemies that aren't very happy about a shotgun blast to the face.

I need to get better with objective capping before I feel comfortable taking duration (gold matches, etc). Just not great at it but I'd prefer to help my team out in any way I can.

Modifié par DeathIsHere, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:51 .

[lpconfig]

DarkSpooky wrote...

Play for fun? What would be the point?

You answered your second question with your first!

[lpconfig]

MeatmanMatt wrote...

 Everyone knows what happens if you try playing vanguard on Gold...

Yes, you finish gold games in under 20 minutes when you play one.  Or at least I do.

[Omega2079]

Tokenusername wrote...

People that aren't infiltrators benifit.

The point of the nerf was not the damage, it was the versitily.
Pre-nerf you had a ten second cloak without any duration buff. Thus there was almost no reason to ever pick duration, because 10 seconds was more than you needed for pretty much anything.
Thus people picked damage and still could use TC utilitarianly.

With the nerf you have to choose between using it as a damage boost or a utility. You do not get both. Thus infiltrator can not fill any role, it has to pick.

That doesn't explain how others benefit.

[Omega2079]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

I still score 150k-200k as an infiltrator and also get 5-20 revives per game, I also help with all the objectives

You do a lot of carrying.

[Arppis]

Well, everyone. Less infiltrators and more other classes on gold. Makes them less "the best class in the game", I guess.

Modifié par Arppis, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:57 .

[Drasynd]

Sorry, I'm a team player but only up to a point, and since the point was to give objective completing to the other classes, well I'm letting them do them, for now.

Also what point are YOU trying to make. I really can't figure you out.

Top scores, good, but that's standard for any infiltrator who knows what they are doing.
Also I didn't say I don't heal, I just won't heal everyone.

Modifié par Drasynd, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:57 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

The infiltrators benefit from the shorter cloak duration. Makes the class more interesting to play.

[Kick In The Door]

Drasynd wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

You seem angry.

If you're having troubles with objectives then that's a player problem, not a class problem.

But basically you just posted this because suddenly you're not as OP as before and you're unhappy about it.

Want some more tissues?

Sorry, no, I'm not having problems doing them, it's more simpler than that, I WON'T do them. Understand now.

When it comes to the "OP as before" idiotism, yeah right. I'm not even using the STRONGEST weapons in game, since I actually care about weight of said weapons.
From my point of view, the best is the Mantis, low weight, with the right mods does good DMG, but it ain't the strongest, and strangely I've actually started to like the N7 Valiant, due to it's rapid-fire.

Want some tissues, no, but once you see that most infiltrators just adjust to the change, your going to need them, since there will be another river you need to cry (or should I say lake, NERFER tears are the best tears, it shows how weak they are).

Also, Run'n'Gun - are krogan, vorcha, all vanguards, the shotgun squad, basicly anyone who rushes, charges, etc..   you should get the idea. The original term came from games that you could run thru the playing area and shoot anything that got in your way, without even slowing you down in the progress.

Dude! Don't you realize just who you're talking to? 

You're talking to the absolute greatest infiltrator to EVER play the game! He is the prince, the king, the emperor, the ruler of all things infiltrator! You cannot possibly comprehend his greatness. He is in the heavens while we're in the mud like the mutts we are! You WILL apologize for your insolence and kiss his royal feet!



I would drag my balls across a mile of broken glass just to hear him fart through a walkie talkie.

Modifié par Kick In The Door, 01 juillet 2012 - 09:01 .

[BouncyFrag]

It makes those feel better who are only happy when every one else is just as unhappy as they are.

[Drasynd]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

The infiltrators benefit from the shorter cloak duration. Makes the class more interesting to play.

Since, I use TC less than average (I don't play gold), it really didn't change anything for me.
It's all about not getting hit, try it, you might like it.

[SRTaylor]

death_for_sale wrote...

The balance was needed to make the class more equal to other classes in Gold. It does matter if one class is overpowered in a co-op game, because due to human nature people will complain that there class is not as powerful.

As far as the 'vocal minority' I think that it can be seen that the same minority of people are the ones constantly complaining about the balance. The majority actually support it because they understand how overpowered the class was.

I've played every single class/race since the MP started, I can list easily which combos were overpowered and have eventually been nerfed. I can tell you that, in my opinion, the balance didn't hurt the class that bad. It won't make you believe me, but there it is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it did hurt the class, and in a major way. Alright, you have to take into consideration that most Infil's are squishy. The Humans get a max of 825 to shields and health, and that's if you spend 21 points in Fitness to max it out...which most people won't since you only get enough points to max out 3 Attributes/Skills (4 if you opt to drop one Attribute/Skill all-together).The only exception to this squishy class is the Geth Infil who can obtain 1200 max shields, but even that's dampened by Hunter Mode which reduces shields by 50%. So your average person is going to max out Cloak BECAUSE they have such low defenses. In dampening the time in which one is cloaked, it lessens the value of the Infiltrator. Infil's no longer have enough time to retreat from a hot zone, help out with objectives, or safely revive a fallen comrade. You could opt to go for the increase in time, but that further hinders players by reducing their dmg output by 40%. I don't believe that Infiltrator's are overpowered. If this be the case, then there are other classes that should be nerfed as well. Take the Human Soldiers for example. They get a massive dmg bonus when using Adrenaline Rush (if it's set up correctly), in addition to your current weapon being auto-reloaded. In my case, I use the Saber II and Carnifex X. I can solo any enemy thrown my way just by hitting my adrenaline rush when my ammo is depleted and continue on with the assault. If you add the Warfighter package onto that, you gain a dmg bonus with the Saber and additional grenades. My Warfighter Package is lvl 4 so I get an 8 1/2% dmg bonus to my Saber and +2 to my grenades. That's 6 Frags, 16 shots with the Saber, and 12 shots with the Carnifex. So you're looking at a MASSIVELY OP'd character with this setup. All I'm saying is if you're gonna nerf a class, look at all the others and dull them down a bit as well. It's not fair to all the people that enjoy running Infil to nerf their cloak duration. It leaves them more vulnerable than other classes.

[Drasynd]

Kick In The Door wrote...

Dude! Don't you realize just who you're talking to? 

You're talking to the absolute greatest infiltrator to EVER play the game! He is the prince, the king, the emperor, the ruler of all things infiltrator! You cannot possibly comprehend his greatness. He is in the heavens while we're in the mud like the mutts we are! You WILL apologize for your insolence and kiss his royal feet!



I would drag my balls across a mile of broken glass just to hear him fart through a walkie talkie.

I'll give you a hint. I don't care who he/she/it is.
And while I'm not anywhere near the "greatest infiltrator to EVER play the game!", I just don't care.

[lpconfig]

SRTaylor wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

The balance was needed to make the class more equal to other classes in Gold. It does matter if one class is overpowered in a co-op game, because due to human nature people will complain that there class is not as powerful.

As far as the 'vocal minority' I think that it can be seen that the same minority of people are the ones constantly complaining about the balance. The majority actually support it because they understand how overpowered the class was.

I've played every single class/race since the MP started, I can list easily which combos were overpowered and have eventually been nerfed. I can tell you that, in my opinion, the balance didn't hurt the class that bad. It won't make you believe me, but there it is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it did hurt the class, and in a major way. Alright, you have to take into consideration that most Infil's are squishy. The Humans get a max of 825 to shields and health, and that's if you spend 21 points in Fitness to max it out...which most people won't since you only get enough points to max out 3 Attributes/Skills (4 if you opt to drop one Attribute/Skill all-together).The only exception to this squishy class is the Geth Infil who can obtain 1200 max shields, but even that's dampened by Hunter Mode which reduces shields by 50%. So your average person is going to max out Cloak BECAUSE they have such low defenses. In dampening the time in which one is cloaked, it lessens the value of the Infiltrator. Infil's no longer have enough time to retreat from a hot zone, help out with objectives, or safely revive a fallen comrade. You could opt to go for the increase in time, but that further hinders players by reducing their dmg output by 40%. I don't believe that Infiltrator's are overpowered. If this be the case, then there are other classes that should be nerfed as well. Take the Human Soldiers for example. They get a massive dmg bonus when using Adrenaline Rush (if it's set up correctly), in addition to your current weapon being auto-reloaded. In my case, I use the Saber II and Carnifex X. I can solo any enemy thrown my way just by hitting my adrenaline rush when my ammo is depleted and continue on with the assault. If you add the Warfighter package onto that, you gain a dmg bonus with the Saber and additional grenades. My Warfighter Package is lvl 4 so I get an 8 1/2% dmg bonus to my Saber and +2 to my grenades. That's 6 Frags, 16 shots with the Saber, and 12 shots with the Carnifex. So you're looking at a MASSIVELY OP'd character with this setup. All I'm saying is if you're gonna nerf a class, look at all the others and dull them down a bit as well. It's not fair to all the people that enjoy running Infil to nerf their cloak duration. It leaves them more vulnerable than other classes.

Infiltrators are squishier?  I didnt realize there was a feature that made infiltrators take more damage.

[Jebel Krong]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

So you admit you're not a team player. That gives me a good indication of what you're like.

strong weapons in the game has nothing to do with weight, what point are you trying to make here?

Why am I going to need tissues? I've adjusted just fine, I still score 150k-200k as an infiltrator and also get 5-20 revives per game, I also help with all the objectives

Your post makes no sense

i still get well over 100k too, doesn't mean it's fun anymore, though. I feel restricted now, which is the opposite intention of the class/ability system. If bw want a gears clone, fine, but i dont want to play that. And just replacing class abilities with superior gear is stupid.

Also: you need to be a lot less judgmental.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 01 juillet 2012 - 09:10 .

[Holy-Hamster]

Kick In The Door wrote...

Drasynd wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

You seem angry.

If you're having troubles with objectives then that's a player problem, not a class problem.

But basically you just posted this because suddenly you're not as OP as before and you're unhappy about it.

Want some more tissues?

Sorry, no, I'm not having problems doing them, it's more simpler than that, I WON'T do them. Understand now.

When it comes to the "OP as before" idiotism, yeah right. I'm not even using the STRONGEST weapons in game, since I actually care about weight of said weapons.
From my point of view, the best is the Mantis, low weight, with the right mods does good DMG, but it ain't the strongest, and strangely I've actually started to like the N7 Valiant, due to it's rapid-fire.

Want some tissues, no, but once you see that most infiltrators just adjust to the change, your going to need them, since there will be another river you need to cry (or should I say lake, NERFER tears are the best tears, it shows how weak they are).

Also, Run'n'Gun - are krogan, vorcha, all vanguards, the shotgun squad, basicly anyone who rushes, charges, etc..   you should get the idea. The original term came from games that you could run thru the playing area and shoot anything that got in your way, without even slowing you down in the progress.

Dude! Don't you realize just who you're talking to? 

You're talking to the absolute greatest infiltrator to EVER play the game! He is the prince, the king, the emperor, the ruler of all things infiltrator! You cannot possibly comprehend his greatness. He is in the heavens while we're in the mud like the mutts we are! You WILL apologize for your insolence and kiss his royal feet!



I would drag my balls across a mile of broken glass just to hear him fart through a walkie talkie.

You didn't ask my permission to make this post.  I hereby exile you from the kingdom.

[Holy-Hamster]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

So you admit you're not a team player. That gives me a good indication of what you're like.

strong weapons in the game has nothing to do with weight, what point are you trying to make here?

Why am I going to need tissues? I've adjusted just fine, I still score 150k-200k as an infiltrator and also get 5-20 revives per game, I also help with all the objectives

Your post makes no sense

i still get well over 100k too, doesn't mean it's fun anymore, though. I feel restricted now, which is the opposite intention of the class/ability system. If bw want a gears clone, fine, but i dont want to play that. And just replacing class abilities with superior gear is stupid.

Also: you need to be a lot less judgmental.

Restricted to what? Having the same power of all the other classes? Not being able to do EVERYTHING from one class?  Of course you feel restricted, because it never should have been that way to begin with.  

Anyways I'm done for now.  I have to go polish my crown or something......