370 réponses à ce sujet

[Tal_Elmar]

That's my main problem with the nerf, this duration reduction. I hardly ever play Infiltrators, I mostly like adepts and engineers. But having tried new Infi...4 seconds is just ridiculous. It's only enough for shooting, not for reviving, objective taking, crossing into the enemy's rear. And if you consider that most Infiltrators have extremely crappy abilities other than Cloak...well, you see the point.
I hope it will be increased by at least two more seconds.

[Knubbsal]

Maybe infiltrators were never supposed to do objectives without effort. Now, the whole team can go defend the guy who's doing it and infiltrators can cowardly sit behind their crates like they always do, without anyone telling them they need to do the objective! How is that not a win for you.

Besides, the infiltrator is the only class that's always present in every game, and usually with more than one. Why do people play one class so much? Since it's overpowered, easy or overpowered and easy. BioWare just gives you a reason to play other classes and now use tactical cloak tactically.

[SRTaylor]

I mean, I know I wouldn't wanna be forced to play another class because the Batarian Sentinel I enjoy playing is now worth about as much as the garbage you throw away.

[Pitznik]

greghorvath wrote...

MeatmanMatt wrote...
33% out of 5 more like.

I think we can stick to 3,5 with soldiers being the 0,5. You rarely encounter sentinels as well, so that's a  -1.

Lol, but that is exactly what makes it a problem - it's 33% out of 6 classes BECAUSE Sentinels, Soldiers and Vanguard can't keep up. You're not refuting my arguement but strengthening it actually. That is what made it a problem in the first place - why play Sentinel or Soldier, if you can be Infiltrator, do more damage, die less and be more useful.

Btw, Bioware didn't post full stats of class usage on Gold, but why are soldiers considered weak? Vorcha Soldier is good, not as good as Sentinel but still, Batarian Soldier is godly, Human Soldier is godly, Turian Soldier is also great, despite lack of synergy between PM and MM. Krogan Soldier kind of sucks, that I'll admit.

Also, Vanguard don't glitch as a rule, that happens with lag. I play Kroguard all the time, and I barely ever gltch out (and pretty much always when I do, I should have left the game right when I noticed that weird standing in two places at the same time lag effect).

[Pitznik]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

That's my main problem with the nerf, this duration reduction. I hardly ever play Infiltrators, I mostly like adepts and engineers. But having tried new Infi...4 seconds is just ridiculous. It's only enough for shooting, not for reviving, objective taking, crossing into the enemy's rear. And if you consider that most Infiltrators have extremely crappy abilities other than Cloak...well, you see the point.
I hope it will be increased by at least two more seconds.

Energy Drain crappy?
Hunter Mode crappy?
Proximity MIne crappy?
Arc Grenade crappy?

That is 3 out 5 Infiltrators, I have no experience with FQI or HI, I'll take your word for them having crappy abilities. But it is still 3/5, so most Infiltrators have VERY good kits.

[BLY78NOR]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

That's my main problem with the nerf, this duration reduction. I hardly ever play Infiltrators, I mostly like adepts and engineers. But having tried new Infi...4 seconds is just ridiculous. It's only enough for shooting, not for reviving, objective taking, crossing into the enemy's rear. And if you consider that most Infiltrators have extremely crappy abilities other than Cloak...well, you see the point.
I hope it will be increased by at least two more seconds.

You can increase it by a lot more then 2 seconds if you choose to, like every other class in the game INFs now have some choices to make.

Also people, quit whining about not being able to do objectives and revieve if people can do it on squishy AAs i don't really see any reason why damage specced INFs can't do it with 4 secs of cloak

[SRTaylor]

I agree w/ you Knubbsal, to a certain extent. People did usually see at least one infil in a group, but being given a reason to play another class and being forced to do so are two very different things. As far as using cloak tactically, there isn't much you can do with it now that you'r under cloak for NO MORE THAN 4 seconds. Duration starts as soon as you hit the corresponding button and ends seconds later. During which time, cloak has to initiate which actually cuts the duration down to ABOUT 3 seconds that you're cloaked. Now I don't know about you but if I'm surrounded by a group of enemies while trying to either rev someone, complete a disengage objective, or get out of combat, 3 seconds isn't a whole lotta time to do so. Especially since you're still being fired upon at the start of your cloak, which means you're still taking dmg. You have to factor in stagger, if being shot at by a hunter, ravager, atlas, or hit by a phantom, banshee, brute, husk so that's gonna take some time to recover from which means that's even less time you have to get away while under your cloak which is still counting down.

[Pitznik]

SRTaylor wrote...

I agree w/ you Knubbsal, to a certain extent. People did usually see at least one infil in a group, but being given a reason to play another class and being forced to do so are two very different things. As far as using cloak tactically, there isn't much you can do with it now that you'r under cloak for NO MORE THAN 4 seconds. Duration starts as soon as you hit the corresponding button and ends seconds later. During which time, cloak has to initiate which actually cuts the duration down to ABOUT 3 seconds that you're cloaked. Now I don't know about you but if I'm surrounded by a group of enemies while trying to either rev someone, complete a disengage objective, or get out of combat, 3 seconds isn't a whole lotta time to do so. Especially since you're still being fired upon at the start of your cloak, which means you're still taking dmg. You have to factor in stagger, if being shot at by a hunter, ravager, atlas, or hit by a phantom, banshee, brute, husk so that's gonna take some time to recover from which means that's even less time you have to get away while under your cloak which is still counting down.

You are not being forced to quit playing Infiltrator. You're still very useful and your damage is still very high, I would risk saying that Infiltrator is still the strongest class. Your choice of choosing Infiltrator is just slightly less obvious now.

[BLY78NOR]

SRTaylor wrote...

I agree w/ you Knubbsal, to a certain extent. People did usually see at least one infil in a group, but being given a reason to play another class and being forced to do so are two very different things. As far as using cloak tactically, there isn't much you can do with it now that you'r under cloak for NO MORE THAN 4 seconds.

I call BS, if you spec for damage you shouldn't need more then 4 seconds to live up your shot, if you want more cloak spec for duration and you can run around the map cloaked like you always did. So what exactly is the problem?

[SRTaylor]

death_for_sale wrote...

SRTaylor wrote...

Look, I play other classes just like the rest of you. As a matter of fact, I play my Batarian Sentinel more than any other class/race/profession out there. All I'm saying is I don't think that it's right to nerf one class w/out nerfing all the others. Every class has it's strengths and weaknesses, EVERY ONE. Infil seems to be the only one that is singled out though. The Adepts have biotic explosions. Do you know how many games I've been in and have been robbed of kills because these people bio det everything in sight? Why didn't they get nerfed? Or the Soldiers with grenade cap upgrades? I can't begin to count how many times I've seen people wipe out an entire army of enemies with frags, incediaries, or cluster grenades then run around the map gathering more to do it all over again. What about the Engineers, with the exception of the Quarian Male, dropping a drone, decoy, or turret to pull aggro and either overloading, draining, or exploding everthing with cryo, incenerate combo's. Haven't heard that any of those classes being nerfed?

You need to read the balance notes, because other than the grenade classes, pretty much every class you mentioned HAS been balanced at some point.

Well, apparently not to the extent that the Infiltrator has. The Adept's bio dets haven't seemed to deal any less dmg than the had before and, I myself, can run into a match as a human male soldier and nade everything to death if I wanted to. That's not including Adrenaline Rush, which I stated in an earlier post, being OP'd.

[SRTaylor]

BLY78NOR wrote...

SRTaylor wrote...

I agree w/ you Knubbsal, to a certain extent. People did usually see at least one infil in a group, but being given a reason to play another class and being forced to do so are two very different things. As far as using cloak tactically, there isn't much you can do with it now that you'r under cloak for NO MORE THAN 4 seconds.

I call BS, if you spec for damage you shouldn't need more then 4 seconds to live up your shot, if you want more cloak spec for duration and you can run around the map cloaked like you always did. So what exactly is the problem?

My problem lies in the fact that I can still run around and do the stuff that I could b4 at 40% reduced dmg. Just out of curiosity, what character do you enjoy playing the most? BLY78TOR?

[RxP4IN]

Take duration evolution. Problem solved.

Just played an infiltrator for the first time since the nerf to see what people were complaining about. Still easy mode. Just had two consecutive 200k+ matches, never had two in a row with any other class.

The only difference I feel with cloak is that now I have to expose myself to 50% the relative risk during objectives as opposed to 0%.

[SRTaylor]

I just think it's crap that I can no longer run my Geth Infil using GPS with the same effectiveness I had a few months ago.

[BLY78NOR]

SRTaylor wrote...


My problem lies in the fact that I can still run around and do the stuff that I could b4 at 40% reduced dmg. Just out of curiosity, what character do you enjoy playing the most? BLY78NOR?

INF

[SRTaylor]

Which one? Salarian, Quarian Fem, Quarian Male, Human Fem, Human Male, Geth?

[BLY78NOR]

Right now QMI

[SRTaylor]

And what kind of weap do u use on em?

[BLY78NOR]

BW on my SI, GPS on my GI, Claymore on my QMI

I don't remember how the rest are set up at the moment cause i rarely if ever use them

[nicethugbert]

death_for_sale wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

greghorvath wrote...


yes, that is very nice. What a shame the percentage of infiltrators was nowhere near alarming in gold and almost optimal in lower difficulties. Otherwise you are right.

33% out of 6 classes is double of what it should be. How is that nowhere near alarming compared to 15% on silver/bronze?

1. People dont use vanguards because of the bug (which incidentally I have not had fo rsome time now...)
2. Very few people choose sentinels. Probably because they are sloths and they dont do a lot of damge either.
3. Number of soldiers is increasing, but the class is still the privilige of the few that can carry it in gold. 

With three classes ruled out because of their marginal utility on gold, 33%is just about right...

i for one dont use infiltrators in bronze for teo reasons:
1. I dont play bronze a lot
2.  AoE attacks clear out maps on lower difficulties faster than making it viable to try scoring hits with a precision damage class...

How can I take your opinion seriously when you obviously don't know anything about Vanguards, Sentinels or Soldiers?

The bug is bad, but hosting overrides it. Krogan Vanguards are nigh unkillable. Asari Vanguards have Stasis and Lift grenades, which like all grenades right now are incredibly OP. The new Phoenix Vanguard is incredible once you learn how to play it, I see it all the time on Gold now.

Human Sentinels are Asari Adepts with Tech Armor, ie incredible dps and protection. Turian sentinels are tech burst MACHINES. Krogan Sentinels have incredible shields and armor, plus they just happen to have lift grenades which are awesome. Batarian Sentinels, well I have to agree that they need some work, but they have shockwave which was boosted like crazy. Vorcha Sentinels are killing machines of...well...killing.

Human Soldiers have the capability to do mass burst damage, have grenades, and instant reload. Turian Soldiers turn high rof weapons into ultimate shredding devices of doom and have a 20% damage boost from Prox Mine like some other class we may know to be awesome (GI). Krogan Soldiers can create Fire Explosions at will. So can Batarian Soldiers plus they stunlock like crazy. Vorcha, well, they own anything.

Additionally, before people started realizing how OP the GI was, Soldier had a higher presence ovefall than infiltrator. You can see per official stats here na.llnet.bioware.cdn.ea.com/u/f/eagames/bioware/masseffect3/website/images/home/news/mp-telemetry.jpg

The point of this being, you are like a poster child for the people complaining about infiltrator balance. You absolutely know nothing about any other class than the infiltrator and refuse to see logic. I do not aim this directly at you, per se, but at the people complaining at large. It was the same type of people who whined and cried when they balanced the original OP class. in case you and the other people don't know what it was, i'll tell you.

Quarian Female Infiltrator was the first OP class because of Sabotage and Geth. There used to be posts all over the board 3-4 months ago from people asking for all QFI teams to farm Geth. The class was so OP that it was still getting nerfed on Sabotage and Geth were still being buffed to counter it up until recent times. Read some of the early balance notes sometime to see what was going on near the beginning.

All the classes other than infiltrators work out in the open taking shots.  Enemies see you behind cover from across the map and start shooting when they do.  They go around cover no matter how suicidal it is.

I've played all the classes and infiltrator due to TC is EZ-Mode.  It's the most relaxing class in the game, just chillin out in cloak while everyone gets shot.

Now people will tell me that cloak is not invisibility that they get shot at while cloaked, blah, blah, blah.  You're doing it wrong.  Cloak dumps aggro just fine in this game.  You just have to move around a bit, weeve between cover, and they'll leave you alone.  But the geth blah blah blah.  "OMG!  The Geth are challenging! "  Even against Geth, TC users have the advantage.  And., you can get the same credits against cerberus where TC works just specatacularly, even with a 5.2 sec duration.

[SRTaylor]

I run shotty, because that's what I like. I don't get the dmg upgrades one would w/ a snipe, and I know that's my choice. But I don't think I should get dooked on just because some bad kids can't rack up kills fast enough to please themselves.

[SRTaylor]

And tbh, I don't run infil all that much. It just irritates me that I can no longer jump in a match w/ my GI and put out the dmg I could b4. And If I opt for the dmg, then I run the risk of getting incapped due to the lack of time I have to break line of sight.

[SRTaylor]

nicethugbert wrote...

All the classes other than infiltrators work out in the open taking shots. Enemies see you behind cover from across the map and start shooting when they do. They go around cover no matter how suicidal it is.

I've played all the classes and infiltrator due to TC is EZ-Mode. It's the most relaxing class in the game, just chillin out in cloak while everyone gets shot.

Now people will tell me that cloak is not invisibility that they get shot at while cloaked, blah, blah, blah. You're doing it wrong. Cloak dumps aggro just fine in this game. You just have to move around a bit, weeve between cover, and they'll leave you alone. But the geth blah blah blah. "OMG! The Geth are challenging! " Even against Geth, TC users have the advantage. And., you can get the same credits against cerberus where TC works just specatacularly, even with a 5.2 sec duration.
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Alright, well now. Here we have some errors. First, you talk about how infils are ez-mode and yet, you're running out of cover with another class. Of course Infils are gonna seem easy if you're out in the open getting shot at all the time.  I don't run out of cover unless I'm running a full group of vorcha, in which case u don't need cover on account of Bloodlust and the fact that the entire group gathers round and melee's everything to death. Second, any class can be dubbed ez-mode if you know what you're doing. Yes, TC does give people an edge and I agree with that, but the same could be said about the other classes as well, like engineers having an aggro bot or vanguards regening their shields while detonating bio combo's with charge. Third, even if you're bobbin and weavin, you're still gonna take dmg and ur still gonna get hit b4 you break aggro. Which means that if you get hit, even under TC, by any of the ones I stated earlier(eg. Geth hunter) then you're gonna stagger. And last time I checked, Hunters pump another GPS round in you b4 you even recov from stagger. In which case, your cloak is still active but will not be for much longer, and that's of course if you've got enough health and shields to survive the onslaught. As for the diversity of enemies, doesn't matter what you're fighting on Firebase White (Around 90% of the matches are on said map in most gold matches on the 360), it's gonna be ez-mode because you either stay in the little room at the bottom left side of the map or you stay up on the overpass and force the enemy to spawn down below. And speaking of which.....people, try some other maps for a change. That's not the only map that you guys can complete on gold. Change it up a bit.....experiment if you have to. Anyway,  not every Infil sits back and watches their teammates become fodder. Some of us actually help the group. Some people give Infils a bad rep and it sux but that doesn't mean that you have to go and nerf the class.

Modifié par SRTaylor, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:22 .

[SRTaylor]

Oh, and just to throw it out there. I'm not posting these things to ****** anyone off or single anyone out. I'm just trying to voice my opinion like the rest of you so if I've offended anyone in any way, then please accept my apologies.