370 réponses à ce sujet

[atum]

InfamousResult wrote...


Actually, Infiltrators only being 33% prevalent on Gold and not on Silver or Bronze is evidence to the point that they're OP.

You need a jump to conclusions map.  

It's evidence that people *think* they are viable on gold and/or they dont feel comfortable with other classes, and/or they are fun, and/or other classes are not fun, and/or they are well rounded, and/or other classes are not well rounded, and/or people like sniping, and/or their powers make particular weapons OP, and/or they are overpowered, and/or other classes are under powered, etc, etc.


There are obviously a lot of reasons why the stats could look the way they do.  But furthermore what people think and reality are usually very different things.  Infiltrators probably appear to be noob friendly for new players to Gold but new players mostly dont understand Shield Gate. 

Anyways, the point is there are a lot of plausible reasons for these stats. 

The truth is we dont have more applicible stats such as average score breakdowns by class, race, level and weapon.  BW has those, but they instead chose to share a statistic that is poor evidence for their argument.

[Edalborez]

atum wrote...

Using the % of people that play a class to judge powerfulness is bad logic. There is only an indirect correlation at best. And there are several obvious reasons why they would probably be overrepresented as mentioned above.

They didn't nerf it -because- so many people were using Infiltrators on Gold, but that's reason to start looking in to the "why" of it.

[atum]

Edalborez wrote...

atum wrote...

Using the % of people that play a class to judge powerfulness is bad logic. There is only an indirect correlation at best. And there are several obvious reasons why they would probably be overrepresented as mentioned above.

They didn't nerf it -because- so many people were using Infiltrators on Gold, but that's reason to start looking in to the "why" of it.

Did they give a reasoning?  I dont think we can say one way or another the reason BW had in their heads. 

I was responding to other posts in this thread about the value of that statistic.

[Cundu_Ertur]

The only good reason to have a vanguard in gold is to give the other three players a 15 revives medal. Each.

[QU67]

I have used Infiltrators since the demo, and loved them! I don't think they're excessively overpowered. This has been stated before, but Infiltrators have lost two of their primary roles, reviving teammates and disabling objectives. I'm not overly mad about the damage reduction, but Tac Cloak has become useless at low levels, and the rank 4 evolution benefits no one. More duration to pick up teammates, except that the enemies still shoot you (due to the update) or more damage and a useless dash/disable power. This update benefited no one. I think Bioware should stop nerfing anything in a cooperative multiplayer where the experience and money depend on how well you and your teammates do. Infiltrators were a big part of that.

Modifié par QU67, 01 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[Pitznik]

greghorvath wrote...


With your logic of too adequate biotic and tech specialists would also need looking into. Adepts trigger their own AoE damage explosions every 3-4 seconds.

I don't know really, biotics usually lack any survival tools whatsoever, and they aren't as effective on their own as in teams. Powers can be dodged, so BEs aren't so reliable, and let's not forget they were nerfed already - BE's range was lowered. I actually find grenades way more powerful than BEs atm.

greghorvath wrote...
Contrary to how it may seem, I have no problems with TC nerf per se. I just don't agree with how it was made.

I considered Infiltrators somewhat OP, but I wasn't really so much for nerfs - but my view is biased, since I play mostly silver, where Infiltrators aren't that common. But I kind of like how this nerf was made, I think it's pretty fair, and evolution choices are more meaningful.

The only thing I really want to see nerfed is Krysae... but that's completely different topic.

[MeatmanMatt]

newman982 wrote...

MeatmanMatt wrote...

 Everyone knows what happens if you try playing vanguard on Gold...

Yes, you finish gold games in under 20 minutes when you play one.  Or at least I do.

There are exceptions obviously. Majority of the time people assume you'll charge off and get killed early on (Because most do), and get kicked unless you change class.

You obviously have great success with playing vanguards so I congratulate you.

[Mixon]

Don't like nerfs... It's like somebody first give you a toy, than take it back....

[Poison_Berrie]

Jebel Krong wrote...

1st point is your opinion, really i don't know if it is 1, 2 or more, but from experience it's generally just one most of the time. last point is also only your opinion: it has never been proven that infiltrator is the easiest, most powerful or anything class, it just happens to be ideal for completing certain waves (objectives), or was, hence player-bias. personally i just loved sniping and the power-set. now #notsomuch. btw my fastest gold completions have generally come from multiple adepts/vanguards on a team, only occasionally multiple-infiltrators.

That first point isn't really an opinion. Mostly an observation and deduction. You need the Infiltrator mostly for certain objectives. 
My last point was a statement. I didn't actually go for a "TC is OP" discussion.

[Pride Demon]

GallowsPole wrote...

Sooo it simply couldn't have been an inexperienced player or someone not thinking, but rather someone intent on making the Inf the leper. Huh. Fascinating.

Nope. I don't think any of the things you said apply: the guy displayed some pretty neat tactics so he definitely knew what he was doing, I'm eager to bet between me and that guy I'll end up with the short stick when it comes to experience (it's a guess, but a fair one given how he played) and I doubt he was deliberately harrassing me.
He was merely someone thinking that since I was playing an Infi, some things were a given, which is not the case...

The devs nerfed the Infiltrator to promote teamwork, unfortunately some people complain the Infiltrator needed nerfing, but then still pretend him/her to go on without support, that might have been feasible before, but not anymore... Well, maybe if you are an insanely good infiltrator, unfortunately not everyone is one of those...

Still, I can't help but notice the enourmous amount of sarcasm exuding from your post so let's clear the air: my favourite class is the vanguard so I'm a neutral party. Willing to be more open minded and actually give some consideration to my points now or are you still going to shoot them down on principle?

[SquirrelWiz]

death_for_sale wrote...

They did give a reason when they warned people that the review of TC was under way and balance changes were coming. The reason given was that too many people were playing Infiltrators on Gold.

Part of me wonders if those numbers were biased. Not on Bioware's part, but more on how the game evolved.

Infiltrators were touted as the go-to people for risky revives and objective running, which can be gamebreakers. That would probably inflate their numbers to a small degree. Ontop of that, there is the Vanguard class who has such a gamebreaking glitch that I wouldn't suggest anybody playing them beyond silver. People dont like dead weight in squads, and vanguards (thanks to the glitch) were basically dead weight waiting to happen.

I'm not saying that this explains away all of the 33%, but I feel that the number is skewed thanks to outside, or internal, forces.

[Cundu_Ertur]

death_for_sale wrote...

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

The only good reason to have a vanguard in gold is to give the other three players a 15 revives medal. Each.

....

I really don't know what to say, other than that I can see why you are constantly in these whine posts about the balance of an overpowered class. Consistently the people complaining about this balance to TC are showing that they know next to nothing about the mechanics of this game past playing an OP infiltrator.

With the fixes to the Phoenix Vanguard, there is no Vanguard class that cannot succeed on Gold and most of them can excel. Try playing a Krogan Vanguard sometime and see how many times you need reviving...

I just got out of a match with two vanguards, one a krogan, and ended up soloing over half of wave ten. Granted, it was silver which much harder than gold is. Or, uhhhhh, something.
Revive medal was nice. Shiny.
And I've played as a vanguard enough to level the class to 20. I doubt I'll do it again until I get the Phoenix kit. I won't do it until then because I'm too impulsive to do well with the class. Yes, you are right, it can be done well. The majority, however, don't do well. I'm in that majority. So when I'm the vanguard, it's 15 revive medals for everyone else.

You'll have noticed in these threads, though, that lately I'm generally supportive of the nerf, especially the duration part of it. I would just like tweaks, not status quo ante. Imediately after, I was pretty miffed since it needed changes to my playstyle in a big way. Now, I think I've adjusted.
Of course, now there's justification for having two infiltrators in matches -- one for duration, the other for damage. I wouldn't have been able to carry without duration just now, but it took longer since I have to plinkplinkplink more.

[Cundu_Ertur]

SquirrelWiz wrote...

...Ontop of that, there is the Vanguard class who has such a gamebreaking glitch that I wouldn't suggest anybody playing them beyond silver. ...

Naw, that can't have any impact.

[Jim Cognito]

A duration nerf seemed reasonable but halfing it was going overboard, sniper or shotgunner infiltrators where the most powerful and still are, other weapons and tactics have been more affected. The worst part is that there is now 2 heavy nerfs on the Quarian Female and Geth Infiltrators. The damage nerf was ok but the duration nerf was going abou it wrong.

[leminzplz]

the nerf was pointless in my opinion. I don't mind the damage reduction; my black widow does loads of damage anyway, but I don't like the duration now :/ People who agree with the nerf better not complain about me dying trying to revive them because my cloak ran out seconds before

[QU67]

Mango370 wrote...

the nerf was pointless in my opinion. I don't mind the damage reduction; my black widow does loads of damage anyway, but I don't like the duration now :/ People who agree with the nerf better not complain about me dying trying to revive them because my cloak ran out seconds before

That is going to be the most unbearable part of this whole thing. All the complaining in-game. Thank you for pointing this out.

[SinerAthin]

It's what happens when you listen to the trolls

[GGW KillerTiger]

Short cloak duration = Damage infiltrator (selfish)
Long cloak duration = Utility infiltrator 9team player)

So erm yea trying to make the game fun for all?

[joker_jack]

SinerAthin wrote...

It's what happens when you listen to the trolls

[Kel Riever]

I find it amazing that even spec'd for duration, you still get less time. That is on top of the obvious less damage.

Keep your duration Infiltrators for when you play with friends. When playing in public, spec for damage regardless of what you intend to do, and that includes helping people if you are all about that. Of course, all the people screaming for the nerf weren't interested in helping you...they just want you to help them. Remind them that it is now time for them to get objectives...hurry the hell up, and bring you back a sandwich while they are at it.

[5_Mania]

What other class offers a huge damage buff without casting?

[GGW KillerTiger]

Kel Riever wrote...

I find it amazing that even spec'd for duration, you still get less time. That is on top of the obvious less damage.

Keep your duration Infiltrators for when you play with friends. When playing in public, spec for damage regardless of what you intend to do, and that includes helping people if you are all about that. Of course, all the people screaming for the nerf weren't interested in helping you...they just want you to help them. Remind them that it is now time for them to get objectives...hurry the hell up, and bring you back a sandwich while they are at it.

Infiltrators like that (useless as **** teammates) are probably the main reason why people wanted them nerfed .....