370 réponses à ce sujet

[Kel Riever]

The only problem GGW Killer Tiger...is that the nerf only hurts the helpful infiltrators

[Immortal Strife]

Because of the nerf I have had to drop weight on all of my damage infiltrators, no longer can I carry a Black Widow and a Hurricane :0(

I was all for the TC change but like many I find the new duration of 5.2 seconds to be a severe nerf. A cloak duration of 6 or 7 seconds seems more appropriot IMO.

[Cundu_Ertur]

Kel Riever wrote...

I find it amazing that even spec'd for duration, you still get less time. That is on top of the obvious less damage.

Keep your duration Infiltrators for when you play with friends. When playing in public, spec for damage regardless of what you intend to do, and that includes helping people if you are all about that. Of course, all the people screaming for the nerf weren't interested in helping you...they just want you to help them. Remind them that it is now time for them to get objectives...hurry the hell up, and bring you back a sandwich while they are at it.

I read this post in Zaeed's voice and it fits, especially the last bit.
However, I don't think the 'Renegade' option is going to work well, no matter how emotionally satisfying it may be.

[Kel Riever]

Lol! Again, Zaeed....what's not to like about Zaeed? Well, other than he can get your teammates slightly killed....

[Holy-Hamster]

Jim Cognito wrote...

A duration nerf seemed reasonable but halfing it was going overboard, sniper or shotgunner infiltrators where the most powerful and still are, other weapons and tactics have been more affected. The worst part is that there is now 2 heavy nerfs on the Quarian Female and Geth Infiltrators. The damage nerf was ok but the duration nerf was going abou it wrong.

Shotgun infiltrators are still fine.

Sniper rifle infiltrators are still fine.

Harrier infiltrator is incredibly good.

Hurricane infiltrator is decent.  Works fantastic as a back-up weapon for the harrier and certain other weapons.

Paladin can be good on infiltrators, but you might as well go sniper if you're going to do that.

Geth and female quarian infiltrators are fine.  

Duration isn't near as bad as people make it out to be, I'm not seeing a problem with these changes.

[QU67]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Jim Cognito wrote...

A duration nerf seemed reasonable but halfing it was going overboard, sniper or shotgunner infiltrators where the most powerful and still are, other weapons and tactics have been more affected. The worst part is that there is now 2 heavy nerfs on the Quarian Female and Geth Infiltrators. The damage nerf was ok but the duration nerf was going abou it wrong.

Shotgun infiltrators are still fine.

Sniper rifle infiltrators are still fine.

Harrier infiltrator is incredibly good.

Hurricane infiltrator is decent.  Works fantastic as a back-up weapon for the harrier and certain other weapons.

Paladin can be good on infiltrators, but you might as well go sniper if you're going to do that.

Geth and female quarian infiltrators are fine.  

Duration isn't near as bad as people make it out to be, I'm not seeing a problem with these changes.

Define "fine". By that do you mean that the Infiltrators can still do a lot of damage? Or that they can get behind enemy lines? Or that they might still be able to disable objectives before Cloak runs out? Or that they can stil carry a lot of weight? The biggest problem with this nerf is that no one benefits. Even those people who wanted the nerf will now have to deal with the Infiltrators who went for damage not being able to revive them. On the flipside, the Infiltrators who went for duration might not be able to get to their teammates because the enemies still know where they are. The Infiltrators themselves might not be hit too bad, but their teammates will be. The Infiltrator was a class that could revive you if you screwed up, or disable the objective even if it was under heavy fire. Now, those jobs are going to be left to Sentinels or Krogan due to their "tankiness". Sniper Infiltrators won't be affected too much, but the job of sniping could also be carried out by a Soldier. The Infiltrator wasn't just a class that could rack up a ton of points, although some played it that way, it was a class that could be a real teamplayer. Now, the Infiltrator must choose to either got it solo and do a ton of damage, which leaves it in a pinch if the Infltrator needs to run away from enemies, or to be able to cloak longer to run to teammates/objectives/etc, but this is also a bad idea because enemies can now spot an Infiltrator running through them. We didn't lose a kill stealing point horder, we lost a good all around team player.

[Holy-Hamster]

Fine as in....

They can still do objectives. They can still revive people. They can still do ridiculous damage.

Weight isn't a -huge- issue unless you're getting down under 0-10%. I've run with +13% cooldown speed and do fine.

There shouldn't be a class that can revive everyone no matter how badly they screw up. If your team screws up and gets in a REALLY bad situation, it should be game over. Not...it's okay guys, we have an infiltrator, we'll just keep reviving 100+ times and killing stuff no matter how bad we are.

Now there are actually some situations where an infiltrator can't revive you and that's a good thing. Although those situations are very rare.

Objective under heavy fire = you or your team needs to clear out the area. I have yet to get an objective I couldn't kill enough stuff to do it.

You have to time your cloak to get to where you want to go, you can't just run freely around the map . You know....be tactical n stuff.

You can still be a perfectly good team player.

So yeah, infiltrators are fine, they still remain the most powerful class

Modifié par Holy-Hamster, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:41 .

[Holy-Hamster]

For the record, I agree that tactical cloak needs fixed in that it still glitches out repeatedly and turns you invis but you're not actually invis. That's a bug and needs fixed asap. That would go a long way to solving some of the complaints.

[Grubilmeister]

What bothers me the most, isn't the Infiltrator nerf on it's own... It's "what class is next" for all of the score-watching whiners on the forums to complain about. If there is one class that happens to be very good, it's only a matter of time before the ****ing begins. Eventually everything is going to get nerfed to the point of near uselessness.

[Immortal Strife]

Black widow X and a Hurricane IV = -34 cooldown, err. Fix ULM please, I want to run the hurricane as a secondary weapon.

[blacksheepD]

I haven't played Infiltrator since the nerf to be honest. The should of used scissors instead of a pickaxe. Trim a bit see how that goes, they just got carried away. Now I imagine it's just a cloak shoot cloak shoot affair, the cloak ability as such is meaningless its just a damage increase button now. If you go duration what is that use? I'm a reviver/hack man build YAY! lots of fun.

[GGW KillerTiger]

Kel Riever wrote...

The only problem GGW Killer Tiger...is that the nerf only hurts the helpful infiltrators

actually the damage users of TC now suffer longer recharge due to the recharge being shoter so even if they use it immediatly it's a higher percentage. I noticed it on my all damage no duration infiltrator .....

[GGW KillerTiger]

blacksheepD wrote...

I haven't played Infiltrator since the nerf to be honest. The should of used scissors instead of a pickaxe. Trim a bit see how that goes, they just got carried away. Now I imagine it's just a cloak shoot cloak shoot affair, the cloak ability as such is meaningless its just a damage increase button now. If you go duration what is that use? I'm a reviver/hack man build YAY! lots of fun.

Yea it was that before the nerf 

[Holy-Hamster]

Grubilmeister wrote...

What bothers me the most, isn't the Infiltrator nerf on it's own... It's "what class is next" for all of the score-watching whiners on the forums to complain about. If there is one class that happens to be very good, it's only a matter of time before the ****ing begins. Eventually everything is going to get nerfed to the point of near uselessness.

welcome to onlin gaming, there's a reason they have "online gameplay may change"

You get used to it and then you either adapt or move on to another game if it bothers you so much that you don't enjoy it anymore

they've still buffed more things than nerfed, it's just when things get nerfed people complain four times as much

Name one thing they've nerfed to uselessness

[Cundu_Ertur]

QU67 wrote...


Define "fine".

Hmmm, my ex's use of the word would indicate that 'fine' means horrible, terrible, couldn't possibly be worse and I'm sleeping on the couch.

[FlowCytometry]

Duration evolve is good now. I just respecced my GPS GI to it and tried him again.

I dun really miss the 40% dmg bonus, esp since its only additive. I also changed from dmg to speed and vision for Legal Wall Hack Mode (HM), and its excellent- being able to see farther than I was specced before and run faster is excellent as a shotty infiltrator. I wish I specced that way earlier.

Sure it took a bit longer to kill large units, but I could support the team and cloak to manuever to a better position w/o stressing time. The short duration when specced for dmg made me play more recklessly before, so taking that stressor out was a big help for me.

Sniper rifles could use a lil love for all classes, which we may see soon enough, but for now I'm still happy w/ my GI.

[Sinapus]

atum wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...


Actually, Infiltrators only being 33% prevalent on Gold and not on Silver or Bronze is evidence to the point that they're OP.

You need a jump to conclusions map.  

It's evidence that people *think* they are viable on gold and/or they dont feel comfortable with other classes, and/or they are fun, and/or other classes are not fun, and/or they are well rounded, and/or other classes are not well rounded, and/or people like sniping, and/or their powers make particular weapons OP, and/or they are overpowered, and/or other classes are under powered, etc, etc.

Perhaps they should get stats on the percentage of Infiltrators in completed Gold matches.

And no, handwaving away about "farmers wipe on wave 10" isn't going to cut it. I'm sure the server logs can track when a match wiped out and if it was on wave 10, if they completed the objectives.

[A Sinister Lamb]

Kick In The Door wrote...

Everyone on BSN apparently. They seem to take pleasure in other people's pain in a co-op game.

This. Seriously, some people just aren't happy till everyone else's fun is taken away from them. I agree, the ifiltrator was more powerful than other classes (let's just...not use the word "overpowered" in a co op game) but it's not even the fact that the class is weak now, because is isn't. It's just unbalanced. The finesse of the class is gone. I feel like I'm either playing as a selfish killing machine or the team's personal medical assistant. For what? So the soldiers and sentinels can feel better about themselves knowing that we've all suffered because THEY decided they were going to hate on something just for the sake of it? This is a CO-OP game. We shouldn't be nerfing classes that are more powerful than others, we should making the less powerful ones more efficient.

Edit: I know, I know, balancing makes the game more fun, but this was a poor balancing decision. Since the nerf, I only specced one of my infiltrators for damage and was pretty much made to regret it. In my opinion, duration is really the only viable option. That doesn't feel balanced to me.

Modifié par A Sinister Lamb, 02 juillet 2012 - 12:38 .

[JiceDuresh]

A Sinister Lamb wrote...
This is a CO-OP game. We shouldn't be nerfing classes that are more powerful than others, we should making the less powerful ones more efficient.

We have dismissed this claim.  Making every class have the same amount of advantages the Infiltrator had trivilaises the enemies who then need a buff.  Nerfing one power is less work and more warrented than buffing everyone so that choice doesn't matter and then buffing enemies to keep contenet relevent.  Co - op is not, nor ever will be, a reason in favor of not performing nerfs.

[Delta Vicious]

I'm not reading the whole thread because, you know tl;dr, but the purpose of the change was so that Infiltrators couldn't do everything. THAT's the balance, they don't care if you have fun being the same OP class always. Infils were so bad that up to 33% played that class, that's insane!

Tactical cloak allowed them to be a better Soldier that could also make capture objectives unnoticed... which is unbalanced, weapon damage's what Soldiers were made for. So now you have the rank 4 choice of either Assasination or actual Stealth.

Most people used the cloak only as a burst for getting the damage bonus on theire shot's so they mostly shouldn't give a crap, and the people that actually used the cloak to get somewhere quickly and unseen can re-spec some of their Infiltrators for damage and others for utility.

[blacksheepD]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

blacksheepD wrote...

I haven't played Infiltrator since the nerf to be honest. The should of used scissors instead of a pickaxe. Trim a bit see how that goes, they just got carried away. Now I imagine it's just a cloak shoot cloak shoot affair, the cloak ability as such is meaningless its just a damage increase button now. If you go duration what is that use? I'm a reviver/hack man build YAY! lots of fun.

Yea it was that before the nerf 

Yes it could  be used that way before fair enough, I guess it was used mainly that way, but you could still use cloak 'legitimately' for some use where being invisible is a benefit. Now you have to choose if you want the damage increase with the cloak as a novalty side effect (have you found a use for such a short cloak?). Or as I said have duration if you want to be the revive hack ****.  It may be fair enough that you have to choose only one road now, but I worry the cloak power is irrelevant for that one evolution which to me is a shame. The majority of Infiltrators now wont be infiltrating.

[nicethugbert]

TC is lame. This is how you deal with phantoms on gold. Walk right up to them, scoped, shooting Ballistic Blades + Kishock to the face. Spec Blade Barrier, Fitness, armor equipment(shield cells 3), and gear(stronghold 5) for max defense. Just walk right into her with the Kishock scoped and shoot her right in the face. When she is at distance, avoid the palm cannon. But, once she makes that bee line towards you, walk right towards her, scoped on her face, firing everything you've got. Get a punch in if ballistic blades does not blow her up or the Kishock does not take her head off. You haven't played this game until you've tried this.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 02 juillet 2012 - 12:59 .

[A Sinister Lamb]

 

JiceDuresh wrote...

We have dismissed this claim.  Making every class have the same amount of advantages the Infiltrator had trivilaises the enemies who then need a buff.  Nerfing one power is less work and more warrented than buffing everyone so that choice doesn't matter and then buffing enemies to keep contenet relevent.  Co - op is not, nor ever will be, a reason in favor of not performing nerfs.

Yeah, you're right. My statement was silly and poorly thought out. But then again, so was the infiltrator's nerf. Duration used to be a pointless rank, yet now I feel Damage is a rather pointless rank. We've really just gone from one inbalance to another. All that aside, infiltrator is still an immesely powerful class, so what difference has the nerf really made? Heck, why am I even complaining?...
And maybe enemies need a buff regardless of balance changes, 'cause y'know, people have been whining about how easy gold is since day 1. And if people whine about things, that means we should change them. Right, BioWare?

[Mindlog]

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

[JiceDuresh]

A Sinister Lamb wrote...
 yet now I feel Damage is a rather pointless rank.

The post directly below yours agruees the opposite.  That's what this nerf has actaully accomplished, choice based on preference of play.  Before the Nerf, anyone who took duration would have been ridiculed, now infiltrators can't agree on which is better.

This is exactly how it should be, and I'd love to see the same thing happen for other powers with the same problem, where one evolution is the only obvious choice to everyone (Not including bug dodging as with ConcShot), Ask anyone what first rank 6 evolution for Biotic Charge is and most wont even have an educated guess without having to go and look because 100% shields is always the right choice.