370 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

Mindlog wrote...

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

[Landge]

BW took the lazy way out by nerfing the Infy. BW SHOULD buff the AR's which are the soldier's and sentinel's bread and butter. That would give them equal footing.

[Exicuren]

I don't like the duration nerf, 4 second are not that much time to have de TC, 6 or 5 seconds would have been better.

Putting that aside, i don't need the TC to revive, flank the enemy and taking points, a good infiltrator is the one who uses the TC the least, i you don't know how to flank the enemy, revive and taking points without it, then you're doing a bad job.

I still mantain my Widow/Javelin, Claymore/Reegar loadout and i haven't got any problems being a infiltrator, i just use the TC in the right moment.

[Kel Riever]

Hey, LOOK, the change to Infiltrators TOTALLY STOPPED THE DEBATE!

Because, how else do you get 9+ pages of the same topic. Gotta do my part!

[Learn To Love Yourself]

You now have a choice between being a team-playing Infiltrator (duration) and a damage-dealing Infiltrator. With duration, you have the time to rez teammates and go for objectives more easily. I think that may be the only suitable reason to dump aggro on the rest of the team.

If you are only using TC for damage, then you'll have to learn to navigate the maps better, use cover a bit, and aim faster, like the rest of the classes. This way, you are forced to be cloaked less and consequently dump less aggro on teammates. When I used to play infi, that's how I played anyway, so it didn't affect me very much.

I'm not anti-infiltrator, but I do believe you shouldn't get the best of both worlds. Choose one and don't complain about not having the other. I tested a HMI the other day spec'd for duration, and he was still a massive damage dealer. I also tried a GI spec'd for damage, and I sitll was able to rez teammates and do objectives (admittedly, lucky with teammates). It's not a class-killing change by any means.

[Mindlog]

nicethugbert wrote...

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

No. I want to make the differences between duration and damage reasonable. How is giving someone 10 seconds of cloak not promoting aggro dump?

[Frost Spectre]

It's a satisfying change to tact cloak. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ogrinash]

The whiners, evidently.

'O no! Cloak draws aggression!' How about you revel in the fact that you now have a greater challenge? Go back to drinking milk from your mother, baby.

'O no! The Infil kills lots of stuff if he shoots them in the head!' Go back to Mario Galaxy.

[DeathIsHere]

nicethugbert wrote...

Mindlog wrote...

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

Translation for those of you that don't understand what he's saying:

"PLAY MY WAY OR YOU'RE PLAYING EZ MODE AND DUMPING AGGRO ON ME, WHICH IS LAME AND YOU CAN'T PLAY RIGHT." 

[Cundu_Ertur]

Don't get personal. Mods watch, mods ban.

[WaffleCrab]

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Mindlog wrote...

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

Translation for those of you that don't understand what he's saying:

"PLAY MY WAY OR YOU'RE PLAYING EZ MODE AND DUMPING AGGRO ON ME, WHICH IS LAME AND YOU CAN'T PLAY RIGHT." 

I believe you sir, summed it up nicely.

[WaffleCrab]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Don't get personal. Mods watch, mods ban.

sad thing is they usually ban for trivial things, or the wrong person. You would not believe for how little they can ban people. Using simple words like. Stupid, Idiotic etc. etc. account for bannable insults. What is even more worrying. Those are common words, that dont get you into any kind of **** if you use them out there in the real world, In here the police state of BSN they get you banned

also most of the words that count for insults are words people in a real debate would laugh at, or simply counter argument and move on >_<

[WaffleCrab]

Jack Crapper wrote...

You now have a choice between being a team-playing Infiltrator (duration) and a damage-dealing Infiltrator. With duration, you have the time to rez teammates and go for objectives more easily. I think that may be the only suitable reason to dump aggro on the rest of the team.

If you are only using TC for damage, then you'll have to learn to navigate the maps better, use cover a bit, and aim faster, like the rest of the classes. This way, you are forced to be cloaked less and consequently dump less aggro on teammates. When I used to play infi, that's how I played anyway, so it didn't affect me very much.

I'm not anti-infiltrator, but I do believe you shouldn't get the best of both worlds. Choose one and don't complain about not having the other. I tested a HMI the other day spec'd for duration, and he was still a massive damage dealer. I also tried a GI spec'd for damage, and I sitll was able to rez teammates and do objectives (admittedly, lucky with teammates). It's not a class-killing change by any means.

well when i am playing inf. i prefer power based support. but here is my dilemma.

IF i go duration and extra power, the tech burts/cryo explosions/fire explosions are only so effective with the 40% damage increase, compared to the 80% with which i have no point to take the extra power since it doesnt last long enough for someone like me to do the double wide spread setup of tech splosions i could with the extra power and duration. as the tech burst damage is affected by the skills damage you do >_>

[deaddecoy]

The way I see it, the TC nerf hurt the shotgun infiltrators the most. The shotgun infiltrators usually fight close quarters and usually need to 1-shot enemies in a swarm. The nerf to time increases the chances of de-cloaking in a crowd, while the damage nerf ensures they take two shots (or extra time uncloaked) to kill a shielded enemy. Sniper infiltrators aren't too worse for wear since they can keep their distance and have the sniper damage evolution.

I don't mind the damage nerf, but the duration nerf for TC is pretty severe.

[Lee80]

The duration change was a horrible call. I don't mind the damage change, but to force us to give up all the damage or all the duration is total bull. TC got nerfed far more then any other power has in the past, and it needs to have a recall on the duration.

[KiiNG Tempest83]

I'm going to be real for a minute. This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard of I rarely play infiltrator, and if if I'm on the class and someone else joins and they want play I will gladly switch to another class. The idea that everyone was using infiltrators means that the class needs to be nerfed is just dumb. Infiltrators could revive many of the dumbest players i.e vanguards Bio charging atlas, banshees, phantoms or just 8 or 9 other enemies and get away. They could also serve as great damages dealers dealing out good damage against tough enemies and making it so you wouldn't get overwhelmed. At the end of the day though a character is only as good as the person playing with it so my thought on the game was having a character who could help you out that much was a plus. Apparently a coop game which pitts you against bots had more compettion in it than I thought. I just want the monies people

[DeathIsHere]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Don't get personal. Mods watch, mods ban.

If that was directed at me, I wasn't insulting him. Nothing ban worthy imo. Just a statement, it's pretty much what he was saying. He's posted it in every single TC topic that's been made in the past month or so. Beaten it into our heads. "TC is ez mode, dumps aggro on me, remove it from the game, etc" Every single topic, never fails. He's got a right to his opinion and I won't call him names over it, but I think he's entirely wrong and the way he goes about getting his opinion across extremely irritates me.

[nicethugbert]

Landge wrote...

BW took the lazy way out by nerfing the Infy. BW SHOULD buff the AR's which are the soldier's and sentinel's bread and butter. That would give them equal footing.

I think BW wants every class  to use any weapon with race having a small, more or less, advantage in some weapons, but not a huge advantage.  I don't think it's a bad idea.

[QU67]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Fine as in....

They can still do objectives. They can still revive people. They can still do ridiculous damage.

Weight isn't a -huge- issue unless you're getting down under 0-10%. I've run with +13% cooldown speed and do fine.

There shouldn't be a class that can revive everyone no matter how badly they screw up. If your team screws up and gets in a REALLY bad situation, it should be game over. Not...it's okay guys, we have an infiltrator, we'll just keep reviving 100+ times and killing stuff no matter how bad we are.

Now there are actually some situations where an infiltrator can't revive you and that's a good thing. Although those situations are very rare.

Objective under heavy fire = you or your team needs to clear out the area. I have yet to get an objective I couldn't kill enough stuff to do it.

You have to time your cloak to get to where you want to go, you can't just run freely around the map . You know....be tactical n stuff.

You can still be a perfectly good team player.

So yeah, infiltrators are fine, they still remain the most powerful class

Okay, you came up with very good counterpoints, and I've started to play Infiltrator more and more since I posted and the nerf isn't as terrible as I initially thought. Getting past my annoyance and upset at the nerf, I realized Infiltrators are still great if played smart. 

[nicethugbert]

Jack Crapper wrote...

You now have a choice between being a team-playing Infiltrator (duration) and a damage-dealing Infiltrator. With duration, you have the time to rez teammates and go for objectives more easily. I think that may be the only suitable reason to dump aggro on the rest of the team.

If you are only using TC for damage, then you'll have to learn to navigate the maps better, use cover a bit, and aim faster, like the rest of the classes. This way, you are forced to be cloaked less and consequently dump less aggro on teammates. When I used to play infi, that's how I played anyway, so it didn't affect me very much.

I'm not anti-infiltrator, but I do believe you shouldn't get the best of both worlds. Choose one and don't complain about not having the other. I tested a HMI the other day spec'd for duration, and he was still a massive damage dealer. I also tried a GI spec'd for damage, and I sitll was able to rez teammates and do objectives (admittedly, lucky with teammates). It's not a class-killing change by any means.

I agree basically with this except with the characterization that the infiltrator with a longer duration TC is a team-player.  It is the opposite.  The longer the cloak duration, the more aggro you dump on your team, so the less of a team player one is.  Reviving them is just cleaning up the mess one played a part in creating and keeping the decoys working.  It's using the team.

A true team player is taking aggro along with the rest of the team.  Ideally, the objective capper would not get any aggro.  But that is not how it works all the time.  The rest of team has to run a screen for the objective capper.   So, the objective capper gets aggro, mostly after the first objective, but not enough to totally fail if the team does a good job.

Getting beat up is a major part of the game for all classes except Infiltrator.  But, the Infiltrator intensifies that for all the non-infiltrators while reducing it for himself.  That might work in another game.  But, in ME3, even the tanks can be easily squished.

[QU67]

KiiNG Tempest83 wrote...

I'm going to be real for a minute. This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard of I rarely play infiltrator, and if if I'm on the class and someone else joins and they want play I will gladly switch to another class. The idea that everyone was using infiltrators means that the class needs to be nerfed is just dumb. Infiltrators could revive many of the dumbest players i.e vanguards Bio charging atlas, banshees, phantoms or just 8 or 9 other enemies and get away. They could also serve as great damages dealers dealing out good damage against tough enemies and making it so you wouldn't get overwhelmed. At the end of the day though a character is only as good as the person playing with it so my thought on the game was having a character who could help you out that much was a plus. Apparently a coop game which pitts you against bots had more compettion in it than I thought. I just want the monies people

Thank you. I thought I was the only one who cared about the credits. I must say though, more experienced players aren't affected as badly. Good snipers can line up shots right away or use the Krysae. People can still be revived, but their must be more teamwork going into reviving teammates. As for damaage? Still an Infiltrator with a Widow X, gonna do some damage.

[nicethugbert]

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Mindlog wrote...

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

Translation for those of you that don't understand what he's saying:

"PLAY MY WAY OR YOU'RE PLAYING EZ MODE AND DUMPING AGGRO ON ME, WHICH IS LAME AND YOU CAN'T PLAY RIGHT." 

I don't mind if people have crutches, if they want them.  I just want everyone to understand what they are and I don't want them jammed sideways in my posterior.

TC would be team friendly if it were damage deflection instead of aggro deflection.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:35 .

[DayusMakhina]

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Mindlog wrote...

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

Translation for those of you that don't understand what he's saying:

"PLAY MY WAY OR YOU'RE PLAYING EZ MODE AND DUMPING AGGRO ON ME, WHICH IS LAME AND YOU CAN'T PLAY RIGHT." 

I don't mind if people have crutches, if they want them.  I just want everyone to understand what they are and I don't want them jammed sideways in my posterior.

TC would be team friendly if it were damage deflection instead of aggro deflection.

You're still carrying on with your aggro dumping campaign? Jeez.

Just so you know, i've often played as a non-infiltrator in rooms consisting of 2 or 3 infiltrators and don't have any qualms with the added aggro, it's not like it makes it super hard to do anything, you just have to play smarter.

Though your 'jammed sideways in my posterior' comment basically sums up your issue; aggro dumping makes the game too hard for you, so instead of attempting to improve so it's not an issue you just want to blame everyone for your shortcomings.

[nicethugbert]

DayusMakhina wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Mindlog wrote...

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

Translation for those of you that don't understand what he's saying:

"PLAY MY WAY OR YOU'RE PLAYING EZ MODE AND DUMPING AGGRO ON ME, WHICH IS LAME AND YOU CAN'T PLAY RIGHT." 

I don't mind if people have crutches, if they want them.  I just want everyone to understand what they are and I don't want them jammed sideways in my posterior.

TC would be team friendly if it were damage deflection instead of aggro deflection.

You're still carrying on with your aggro dumping campaign? Jeez.

Just so you know, i've often played as a non-infiltrator in rooms consisting of 2 or 3 infiltrators and don't have any qualms with the added aggro, it's not like it makes it super hard to do anything, you just have to play smarter.

Though your 'jammed sideways in my posterior' comment basically sums up your issue; aggro dumping makes the game too hard for you, so instead of attempting to improve so it's not an issue you just want to blame everyone for your shortcomings.

That is the best EZ-Chair-Mode defense ever.  I applaud your efforts.

[DayusMakhina]

nicethugbert wrote...

DayusMakhina wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Mindlog wrote...

The cloak change was meant to punish new and mid-level players that take longer to line up shots and complete tasks.

In reality high-level players know that duration is a terrible evolution and no amount of difference in length will ever change that. Duration needs a real buff and most of that should come from moving some damage out of its current evolution.

So, you want to make it easier for the worst infiltrators to dump aggro on the team?  Besides, they're not going to learn to aim by using a crtuch.  They're just going to learn to use the crutch.  They're better off practicing without TC with something like a Batarian + Kishock, or Turian + Saber.

Translation for those of you that don't understand what he's saying:

"PLAY MY WAY OR YOU'RE PLAYING EZ MODE AND DUMPING AGGRO ON ME, WHICH IS LAME AND YOU CAN'T PLAY RIGHT." 

I don't mind if people have crutches, if they want them.  I just want everyone to understand what they are and I don't want them jammed sideways in my posterior.

TC would be team friendly if it were damage deflection instead of aggro deflection.

You're still carrying on with your aggro dumping campaign? Jeez.

Just so you know, i've often played as a non-infiltrator in rooms consisting of 2 or 3 infiltrators and don't have any qualms with the added aggro, it's not like it makes it super hard to do anything, you just have to play smarter.

Though your 'jammed sideways in my posterior' comment basically sums up your issue; aggro dumping makes the game too hard for you, so instead of attempting to improve so it's not an issue you just want to blame everyone for your shortcomings.

That is the best EZ-Chair-Mode defense ever.  I applaud your efforts.

An that's the most obvious attempted aversion i've seen in a long while. Sadly i'm not going to applaud your efforts as that kind of response was inevitable. With that i'm out, because having a conversation with you is akin to beating a dead horse.