76 réponses à ce sujet

[Klijpope]

 This has been bugging me for years. In all fantasy rpgs, the tavern is an important place, often where you meet new characters, are able to find out new rumours, or even as a desperately needed save point. However, while they contain all that functionality, they are rarely like what they are in RL, that is, a place for social gathering and entertainment.

Actually, out of the current crop of rpgs, it is actually Mass Effect that has the most interesting bars. At least you get to dance and get drunk, possibly hit on one of your crew, maybe watch a lapdance. In Skyrim, you can hire a room, maybe take some cheese if you've been nice to them, or listen to some excruciating singing if there's a bard there. At least DA2 had some 'squadmate' action, and the occasional brawl. RDR also had something to it, with the awesome uncontrollable drunk and the addictiveness of cheating at cards.

But, in faux medieval fantasy rpg, the tavern would be the centre of non-religious entertainment. So make them places that we want to visit to have some fun after a hard day killing darkspawn/draugr/gobilns etc.

Things like:

The town drunk
Regulars, with dialogue and rumours
More gambling
Pub games
Traveller's tales
Get more side missions
Singing and dancing, as in decent singing and dancing (the drinking song in iOS "A Bard's Tale" springs to mind)
More brawling
Chess?
Harmless flirting with the wenches, that has more than one dialogue response on a loop.

And why do all taverns look alike - what about pubs with character. Maybe haunted pubs, or have each one with a couple of mini-missions attached.

A livley set of taverns would aid in the world building, and it could be focused and systematic. If the village has a good pub the whole village feels better, not just the bar.

Anyway, just my twopenneth after playing a few more hours in Skyrim...

Modifié par Klijpope, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:28 .

[berelinde]

Hear, hear. It would be great if taverns were more lively places. I don't play Skyrim because I like party interaction too much, but I would like to hold up BG2 as an example of some possibilities. BG2 taverns (there was more than one) were great. The patrons did have random dialogue, but it changed depending on the quests that were currently active, and many of the patrons gave out quests themselves.

Who wouldn't like to see the return of side-quests that were more substantial than finding a random bit of junk and returning it to an unknown person just because your journal says to?

And I'm totally on board with the travelers' tales and gratuitous flirting. From persons of both genders. I wouldn't mind seeing more man-wenches... although now that I think about it, I'm not sure we need another Salvanas.

[cJohnOne]

Well, NWN2 had a dancer and a musician that was a nice touch. Usually there's a bar and a barkeeper and no one to talk to. There's certainly room for improvement. A place you'd be glad to hang out at. I think the Diablo III bars are pretty boring.

I think there should be objects on the tables. Maybe even usable objects. It could happen.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

For the most part, I'd agree. More things to do/see/interact with in terms of a more lively gameworld is good. A variety of minigames that a) serve a practical purpose for the player (moniez) and/or serve a narrative or character interaction purpose would be nice.

Witcher 2's pub brawls are a good example imo.

(of the way it holds both practical and narrative purpose, not the actual minigame, QTE? GTFO.)

Modifié par CrustyBot, 01 juillet 2012 - 01:36 .

[Arthur Cousland]

I love the singing bards in Skyrim, the npcs who move around, sit in chairs, eat food and the extra traffic that they get in the evening.

[Cultist]

Witcher 2 FTW. Dice and wenches. Brawls and wenches. Drinking contests and wenches. Black market trade and wenches.
A formula of success.

[deuce985]

DA:O and DA2 feel lifeless in their city life atmosphere. Denerim was like this and so is Kirkwall. If it wasn't for a few NPCs you could interact with, their cities would be dead. I'd love to see Bioware invest in making their worlds more alive. It would really help flesh out the DA universe. Could you imagine a world like Witcher 2 but have the depth of interactions like a Bioware game? That would be a dream.

Taverns definitely need to be more alive. Also, I question how certain NPCs can stand in one spot all day...lol. Must be spies. That's the only logical conclusion I can come up with. Don't see how anyone else would want to stand in one spot all day.

Modifié par deuce985, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:03 .

[cJohnOne]

Being like the Witcher 2 is a bit too much to expect as far npc goes. I don't have any witcher games but I doubt that the wenches are rendered well enough graphically to be that worthwhile.

The amount of work they did in places is ridiculous to me. How else can you make it more alive?

Modifié par cJohnOne, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .

[deuce985]

cJohnOne wrote...

Being like the Witcher 2 is a bit too much to expect as far npc goes. I don't have any witcher games but I doubt that the wrenches are rendered well enough graphically to be that worthwhile.

The amount of work they did in places is ridiculous to me. How else can you make it more alive?

Why?

Witcher 2 had a smaller team. Bioware is bigger.

I get that resources are focused in certain areas and they prioritize what's high on their list. But Dragon Age still needs improvements in certain areas and this is definitely one of them. You expect sequels to be superior because they fix flaws from previous games.

It doesn't seem the DA team puts level design or ambient environments high on their list to do. That goes for both DA games, not just the recycled DA2 environments.

[Cultist]

cJohnOne wrote...

Being like the Witcher 2 is a bit too much to expect as far npc goes. I don't have any witcher games but I doubt that the wrenches are rendered well enough graphically to be that worthwhile.

The amount of work they did in places is ridiculous to me. How else can you make it more alive?

Just go to youtub and enter "The Witcher 2: **** house" or "Witcher 2 succubus" to see how they were rendered. And then compare it with clothed...ehm...frictions, in DA2.

Modifié par Cultist, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:30 .

[deuce985]

I honestly think Bioware needs a new engine. Would be awesome to see something similar to Witcher 2. You'd think Bioware would also invest in some great facial software tech, similar to LA Noire(I don't mean exactly like that). Seeing as how we have so many close encounters with NPCs in the cinematic interactions, I'm surprised better facial animations isn't a priority. It certainly would help with immersion.

Makes me wonder if Bioware is going to invest in their own engine for all their internal studios--including Mass Effect--next generation.

Modifié par deuce985, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:38 .

[AkiKishi]

cJohnOne wrote...

Being like the Witcher 2 is a bit too much to expect as far npc goes. I don't have any witcher games but I doubt that the wenches are rendered well enough graphically to be that worthwhile.

The amount of work they did in places is ridiculous to me. How else can you make it more alive?

Witcher 2 is superior to DA2 in so many areas that it looks like CDPR are the ones that have been around for 2 decades.



Certainly beats those elves you see around Kirkwall.

There are a lot of things to do in the Taverns of Witcher2 (besides whoring). Dice, arm wrestling, fight club.

[cJohnOne]

Hmmm. are all Witcher 2 npc life like? Very interesting but they could be better looking if you ask me ha ha. The npc in DA2 could have been sexier to if they wanted to go that direction. I don't know why not it's a Mature title after all but this is a side track in bars.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:06 .

[Cultist]

cJohnOne wrote...

Hmmm. are all Witcher 2 npc life like? Very ineresting but they could be better looking if you ask me ha ha. The npc in DA2 could have been sexier to if they wanted to go that direction. I don't know why not it's a Mature title after all but this is a side track in bars.

You miss the point - it's the brothel in a backwater town, filled with hookers, who are addicted to common drugs, fantasy drugs and alcohol. They are supposed to look like scum of the settlement, just a bit refined scum. Even elf hookers look like hobos there because the whole town is a dirty hole.

Modifié par Cultist, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:02 .

[cJohnOne]

I didn't think of that, making less attractive floozies seems too realistic to me but it could help bring the game world to life alittle. I also like the cups on the tables and the sausages hooked up there.

[deuce985]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

I honestly think Bioware needs a new engine. Would be awesome to see something similar to Witcher 2. You'd think Bioware would also invest in some great facial software tech, similar to LA Noire(I don't mean exactly like that). Seeing as how we have so many close encounters with NPCs in the cinematic interactions, I'm surprised better facial animations isn't a priority. It certainly would help with immersion.

Makes me wonder if Bioware is going to invest in their own engine for all their internal studios--including Mass Effect--next generation.

This is what interests me too. The engine that BW uses at the moment seems to be outdated for the standards people have in regards to environments f.e.

If the nex generation consoles come out this 'falling behind' can only become more....

Yea, I honestly think Bioware's engine is a major bottleneck for their creative direction right now. I think this is why we aren't seeing things like ambient environments. Or maybe they just don't want to devote the resources into coding a much better engine? When the marketing came out for DA2, it made it sound like their engine was going to be a massive upgrade over DA:O. It wasn't. It was a slight graphical upgrade...

I remember reading interviews about it and then the first screenshots came out. I was like...that's it? I mean, it was ok but the wording in their marketing sure had me hyped.

Allan made a interesting argument in another thread about graphics playing a big part in a game's success. I believe that in the mainstream eye. Some people really will buy a game just because it's pretty. I'd be lying if I said graphics didn't help me make a purchase. Especially if it reinforces everything else already in the game. If Dragon Age Origins had a engine like Witcher 2, it would be near a masterpiece in my mind...

Modifié par deuce985, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:24 .

[FenrirBlackDragon]

I think it's a good idea, if Bioware can put the time and resources into it. But like it was mentioned, a lot of mainstream focus is on graphics and how pretty a game is. Which is sad, because there are some pretty good games out their with outdated graphics.

If they were going to do this, I would like to interact more with the villagers and have more to do even with random travelers on the road in between fights.

[Fortlowe]

Two words: Qunari. Strippers.

[robertthebard]

So did they fix the face software in TW2? Because in trying to make my way through The Witcher, I'm noticing a lot of ventriloquists. If they had comedy routines, they could give Jeff Dunham a run for his money, or the Japenese overdubbed movies.

OT, yeah, the taverns do need more life, as do the environs around the taverns.

[AkiKishi]

cJohnOne wrote...

Hmmm. are all Witcher 2 npc life like? Very interesting but they could be better looking if you ask me ha ha. The npc in DA2 could have been sexier to if they wanted to go that direction. I don't know why not it's a Mature title after all but this is a side track in bars.

The point is to not make them sexy. It's Hackney not Hollywood.

[TullyAckland]

This thread's becoming a little too focused on the Witcher 2, can we get back on topic RE: Taverns or this'll be moved to Off-topic.

Personally I'd enjoy a few extra activities I could do to pass the time in Taverns. I spend so much time in them in real life, it's only right I do similar in game.

[EricHVela]

More tavern brawls -- possibly, one random fight. (Fighting every time one enters the tavern would be tedious, but a couple of scripted/triggered fights and a random one that just happens might be cool.)

I would have it so that furniture could be broken. The victor walks away. The losers wake up at home (including the player), missing some coin (and/or stuck with an IOU to the bar owner) depending on the amount of collateral damage.

I would also have it that patrons clear the area -- probably standing by the walls and in doorways, but AoE's landing on them can bring them into the fray against whoever threw the AoE.

Also: different kinds of taverns. low-class with cheap supplies, loose tongues, smoky air, gambling and brawls versus high-class with snooty, non-conversazione types for specific, pricy events.

Then, there are the brothels, crowded at night in large cities and seedy towns. I mean, having to be friendly with everyone because it's elbow-room only. Shows on stage at certain times with rowdy crowds. (Gambling and smoke here are good, too.)

Stuff that makes it alive.

As for the Chippendale's kind of shows, I just don't see it in Dragon Age. Most NPC men act different than most NPC women. If that trend continues, there would be little market for it.

[WotanAnubis]

You know what a tavern's good for?

Hanging out with the crew.

The tavern would make a great setting for party interaction. Whether it's getting together to booze, to play cards or just to get together.

I mean, in Dragon Age 2, we're supposed to believe that Hawke's crew is a group that hinges on more than just Hawke (Varric talking to Aveline about business; Isabela cheating on cards with Merrill), but there's never really a moment when you or Varric just goes 'hey, let's all go hang out at the pub for the evening'.