219 réponses à ce sujet

[Baronesa]

Tooneyman wrote...

I'm sorry I just have to throw this smart comment in. People would live GREEN!

Everybody's green
Cos I'm the one who won your love
But if they'd seen
You're talking that way they'd laugh in my face

[memorysquid]

The Angry One wrote...

Altering beings without their knowledge or consent down to the genetic level is a violation by any definition of the word. Period.
Stop wasting time by trying to debate obvious facts.

How about you stop wasting time with question begging and editorial terms like "obvious" as a substitute for argument?  All manner of actions that I might otherwise construe as assault, battery, false imprisonment, etc., suddenly are not, depending on my point of view. 

There is not a single option in this game in which Shepard has time to gain informed consent from all the individuals who might be or even definitely will be affected by his actions.  Your complaint is not only not unique to synthesis, it is not even unique to the ending choices.  This is a character who blew up a solar system just prior to ME3.  Did he ask the Batarians if it was cool?  Were they "violated"?  Would they have said "Who cares about the Reapers, we want a chance to escape!"? 

Your continuing campaign to characterize synthesis as an obvious evil is just silly.  Rather than trying to win the debate by biasing the terms, how about you grant someone else a dribble of respect and use an actual argument?

[zambot]

Baronesa wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

I'm sorry I just have to throw this smart comment in. People would live GREEN!

Everybody's green
Cos I'm the one who won your love
But if they'd seen
You're talking that way they'd laugh in my face

It ain't easy being green.  It seems you blend in with so many ordinary things.

[memorysquid]

zambot wrote...

riesenwiesel wrote...

You do not have any clue how this would look like.
That's why it's impossible for Sheprad to pick this optinon in his situation.

There is a simple truth in this.  For every demonization people can think of for synthesis, there is a reason why it is the best ending possible.  The fact of the matter is that synthesis is utter nonsense.  You say people turn into zombies.  I say they turn into unicorns.  You say people are all uniform.  I say they are just augmented versions of their true selves (unicorns).  Synthesis is space magic.  It is the ultimate incarnation of a six year old's imagination of world peace.  Trying to characterize it as bad is utter folly.  You are imposing rules and expectations on something that lacks any sort of grounding in reality.

And yes, that's why it is a ridiculous choice, but at least it's a happy ending.

The form through which it occurs has no particular grounding in this narrative, which leaves it looking like a ludicrous option.  The idea behind it, which mainly appears to be that with instant access to almost limitless historical knowledge a bunch of conflicts would dissolve, is not that ridiculous.

[zambot]

memorysquid wrote...

zambot wrote...

riesenwiesel wrote...

You do not have any clue how this would look like.
That's why it's impossible for Sheprad to pick this optinon in his situation.

There is a simple truth in this.  For every demonization people can think of for synthesis, there is a reason why it is the best ending possible.  The fact of the matter is that synthesis is utter nonsense.  You say people turn into zombies.  I say they turn into unicorns.  You say people are all uniform.  I say they are just augmented versions of their true selves (unicorns).  Synthesis is space magic.  It is the ultimate incarnation of a six year old's imagination of world peace.  Trying to characterize it as bad is utter folly.  You are imposing rules and expectations on something that lacks any sort of grounding in reality.

And yes, that's why it is a ridiculous choice, but at least it's a happy ending.

The form through which it occurs has no particular grounding in this narrative, which leaves it looking like a ludicrous option.  The idea behind it, which mainly appears to be that with instant access to almost limitless historical knowledge a bunch of conflicts would dissolve, is not that ridiculous.

I honestly think that your interpretation is closest to what the writers believe: That ultimate knowledge leads to utopian peace and freedom from suffering.  This world view is quite common in sci-fi literature, so it is unsurprising to be found here.  I; however, am not a subscriber to this world view, so this interpretation of synthesis rings hollow for me.  But just like the stepford wives interpretation, I can respect it.

And I agree, synthesis has no grounding in this narrative.

[memorysquid]

The Angry One wrote...

I am saying synthesis is evil. Where did I say you don't get it if you disagree?

Again, stop projecting your own hostility onto me.

So says The [Who?] One...

[memorysquid]

zambot wrote...

I honestly think that your interpretation is closest to what the writers believe: That ultimate knowledge leads to utopian peace and freedom from suffering.  This world view is quite common in sci-fi literature, so it is unsurprising to be found here.  I; however, am not a subscriber to this world view, so this interpretation of synthesis rings hollow for me.  But just like the stepford wives interpretation, I can respect it.

And I agree, synthesis has no grounding in this narrative.

"Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it" isn't just a common sci-fi theme.  If you don't agree with that cliche, that's a different discussion, but the idea is pretty prevalent.

[zambot]

"Those who don't study history..." and "Ultimate knowledge necessarily leads to peace..." are two completely different things. I agree with the former position. Not so much with the latter.

[Bone3ater]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

Interesting. Link to a vid or post from a dev where something along those lines is stated please? If you don't have one, I'll just file this statement in my "BS"-Folder.[/quote]

Oh for god's sake. It's what the Bratalyst says.
[/quote]

Really? Why, you must know it then, seeing as you're right about everything else.

But seriously. He doesn't say that anywhere if I recall correctly.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

Indeed. And I wasn't only talking about an overlord, so again, read carefully.
[/quote]


And yet again, this is irrelevant. Want to keep going?[/quote]

Why, you started it, I just thought I'll play along. But if you insist...

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

Yes, you did, in a snide and condescending manner you told me to "look up the definiton of  collective mind".[/quote]

You call that an insult? Are you new to internet debating?[/quote]

You just proved my point. Appreciated.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

Quote where I was yelling and forcing you to swallow my oh so great synthesis. Didn't find that, and I don't recollect ever writing something like that. I was mereley defending synthesis against seemingly biased conspiracy theories with little to no supporting evidence. And of course against your strawmans. For example:[/quote]

And yet you ranting about conspiracy theories and bias over and over is not at all hostile, I take it?[/quote]

I dunno, is it hostile? I don't think so, you have the burden of proof, I just tried to make that clear.
But that is beside the original point, it was about you claiming that I forced you to swallow my believes. Stop deflecting.

You started the hostilities btw, and continue with them.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

Now tell me if that isn't a "distorted or simplified caricature of your opponent's argument", i.e. Strawman?[/quote]


That was an exagerration of a point I was making, not an argument.[/quote]

Exactly, you exagerrated to have a better "fireline" on the "pro Synthesis" people. That's what an Strawman is. Stop trying to wiggle your way out of it.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

Wow. Way to contribute to the discussion, you didn't even try to argue with my point that Synthesis is perceived as generally a good thing, as far as we know, considering the little evidence we have fromo the epilouge. You're cherry picking "evidence" that supports your idea while ignoring contracting evidence. That's confirmation bias.[/quote]

Because IT WOULD NOT BE. If you deny this, then you refuse to understand human nature.
The public at large would NOT be all flowers and happiness after having this imposed on them and having the killing machines that murdered and mutilated their loved ones just prancing around with nary a care.[/quote]

You're making no sense. That's how you perceive the whole affair, it does not mean it's true. And it's not all flowers and happiness, it's not even stated in detail what exactly happens, or what conflicts arise.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

You're claiming that something is true based on "human nature"? That is in no way a valid argument, even you have to see that. I could as well argue that "human nature" backs me up, and then what? This get's us nowhere.[/quote]

Being obtuse will get us nowhere.[/quote]

Being impudent and insulting get's us nowhere as well. classical Ad Hominem I might add, brilliant.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

Again, human nature, it applies to me as well doesn't it? That's no evidence nor does it give you credibility. Or, maybe I'm not a human because I don't share your beliefs? See where I'm going here?
And again, that's your  biased view on the ending, sappy, happy, wholesome sinister. You put no evidence on the table this time as well.
When do I stop seeing your personal hate and repulsion for the Synthesis in particular and start seeing proof, reference material ect. to support your claim that the ending is "evil" and should be acknowleged as such by everybody even the developers?[/quote]

I am tired of you yelling at me for proof while providing none of your own. Kindly do so, or stop acting so hostile and hurt because I'm poking holes in something you like.

If you're saying that you'd be totally okay with being altered without your consent. Well, how nice for you. However, the majority of people, including me, would not be.[/quote]

I don't have to provide proof because you have the burden of proof. And I am tired of your snide and unreasonable remarks which serve no purpose other than to provoke. And you're not even poking holes, your just throwing yourself on the ground because you yourself are hurt because you feel "betrayed" or something because of the endings. So all of your "points" stem from your emotional uproar. Not a very good basis, don't you agree?

Claiming to be part of "the majority" is also absolutely unfounded and pretty arrogant as well.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

How would you know what Javik would and would not do after he was altered by Synthesis? And where else would he be? In the jungle, building a Reaper because he's indoctrinated of course? I don't know where these wild claims come from tbh.[/quote]

Are you going to tell me with a straight face that he'd be okay with this?[/quote]

I don't know. Would he? Neither of us knows, so it's all speculation of course. But again, you started it, so I thought I'll jump in.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

But maybe he's paying his respects to Shepard? It is, after all, still a memorial and Javik was always pretty hard to judge regarding his emotions, one could argue that he was "unmoved" a lot of the time, or so it seemed.[/quote]

Why would he pay his respects to the person most likely responsible for violating his body?[/quote]

Because it's your biased view to call it a "violation". We don't know anything about what Javik would or would not feel, you started the speculation. Again.

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]Bone3ater wrote...

And no, I don't like what you have to say. But that's beside the point here.
It's about you and others trying to enforce your claims with biased speculation that Synthesis is "bad and "evil" whereas you yourself have no arguments whatsoever, only your resentment and hate against Synthesis and everybody who trys to defend it, so it seems. Which makes seem you completely biased.

And I didn't start insulting, don't try to push that on to me.[/quote]

Synthesis is a violation of all beings in the galaxy. This part is fact. Their reactions and the general tone of it is unsettling. It is the primary vision of the Reapers. Their ultimate agenda, and their biggest victory.
It is an act of pure evil, and I will say so. Your hostility proves that you have nothing to defend it with other than indignation.[/quote]

Well, with all due respect, that is all speculation. There's no way to confirm that, I cant believe how thick you are for believing something like this. It's the equivalent of saying "unprove god!".

Your insolence proves that you have, again, no case, and are only spouting absurd and wild claims because you feel insulted with the endings. Well, that's okay.

Just don't force your unreasonable sense of logic and deduction on all the other players. You're not a special snowflake with a brilliant mind who "figured it all out".

[Forbry]

memorysquid wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Altering beings without their knowledge or consent down to the genetic level is a violation by any definition of the word. Period.
Stop wasting time by trying to debate obvious facts.

How about you stop wasting time with question begging and editorial terms like "obvious" as a substitute for argument?  All manner of actions that I might otherwise construe as assault, battery, false imprisonment, etc., suddenly are not, depending on my point of view. 

There is not a single option in this game in which Shepard has time to gain informed consent from all the individuals who might be or even definitely will be affected by his actions.  Your complaint is not only not unique to synthesis, it is not even unique to the ending choices.  This is a character who blew up a solar system just prior to ME3.  Did he ask the Batarians if it was cool?  Were they "violated"?  Would they have said "Who cares about the Reapers, we want a chance to escape!"? 

Your continuing campaign to characterize synthesis as an obvious evil is just silly.  Rather than trying to win the debate by biasing the terms, how about you grant someone else a dribble of respect and use an actual argument?

*BOWS*

[eye basher]

I wouldn't i just got turned into a freak of nature against my will i'd rather just blast myself.

[Ravereth]

They won't live, they will just exist... There's no life without happiness there's no happiness without sadness, there's no sadness without pain, there's no pain without illnesses or missunderstandings, there's no missunderstandings without arguments there's no arguments without hatred there's no hatred without love, there's no love without fear of losing someone, there's no fear if everything is perfect...

Modifié par Ravereth, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:20 .

[NyxFTW]

Forbry wrote...

Caenis wrote...

 Synthesis is the Sci Fi version of Utopia: "Technological Utopia" : 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_utopianism

They have merged with machine which means they are Human+ (Transhuman) : http://en.wikipedia....i/Transhumanism 

(not to be confused with Post Human Theories) : 
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Posthumanism 
As there are two, "Post Human of the human species", and "Post Human in terms of Transhumanism."

Mass Effect played with this throughout the entire series, I sensed it, during the second game I was asking if anyone saw hints to Transhumanism, that's when Legion came into the picture while I was studying the Transhumanism movement. I was fascinated that Bioware would play with this and that not many were talking about it. It wasn't until ME3 after more conversations with EDI and little hints throughout the game that I began to think woah they really are going somewhere with this. I think Edi might have even had a conversation about it (and Shepard asks if she is one, Edi says no: ). Then we got to the end and I saw Synthesis... I felt 98% certain that this is where they had been heading with the conversations between Legion and Edi, and the war between the Geth, and even the conversations that began way back with Sovereign. Like it just seemed to me that they were ALWAYS headed in that direction and that they had been priming us.
The "Idea" of Synthesis is no different to me than an idea of utopia, like the idea of "Atlantis" or "Eden" or some other mythological Garden or Highly Advanced "Utopian" civilization, it is a place of peace and unity. But I believe that EVEN if something like Synthesis did happen (which it does in some parallel universes of Mass Effect ~), that the peace wouldn't last, that they would learn there is something greater than them out there, who may in turn wish to destroy them, or they may all sink into Atlantis. I also believe that they would continue to evolve past what their current idea of evolution is, and might even become something bigger than what Sovereign once was, and discover whole new Post-Galaxy ideas, that transcend even what we know. They could then become destroyed by some other massive threat that they didn't know about or that is was just unable to be stopped. So the Cycle would continue just in a different form provided they didn't go extinct. As Extinction no matter how evolved is always the RULE not the exception, and being one with the machine and able to self-improve on an as needed basis, is no exception.

I imagine that in this far future if they had the added benefit of "Reactive Evolution" similar to Darwing from the X-Men, where their bodies are programmed/designed to automatically adapt to new situations would be a plus for them. Imagine bacteria that rapidly adapted to eat Transhumans .

But these are all just "Ideas" that Mass Effect played with, which seemed at least in my mind fitting to the Sci Fi theme, though the more I think of it, ME plays with the Sci Fi genre but towards the end leaned more towards Speculative Fiction, a cross between Sci Fi and Fantasy (as the two historically have often been blurred) : 
http://en.wikipedia....fiction#Fantasy 

Why do none of the "haters" respond to this post?

I wasn't going to go this route, but I figured I'd give the general counter response for this.

Transhumanism in theory is something to be earned. Through a large stretch of time, history, and advancement of civilization. Synthesis is not applicable as a natural means of getting there. It is a cheat code or 'space magic' as people dubbed it. This is just a snap-your-fingers-and-bam-advanced-species kind of deal. And in science fiction this tends to have negative connotations attached. There is no cultivation of knowledge, or the scientific breakthroughs needed to get there. There is no reward for the hard work a species has done to achieve transhumanism. The galaxy was not ready and, (as ME has recalled previously with the Krogans) were mercilessly uplifted without a consensus of choice on the matter.

But whether or not the player considers Synthesis to be a bad thing is completely up to the player. In my headcanon, Synthesis would lead to an eventual revolt and self-destruction. While Destroy unfortunately took the lives of EDI and the Geth, it was a sacrifice they were willing to make. And Shepard has had to make tough calls before. I'm surprised that everyone freaks out about the sacrifice of the Geth when there was just the total destruction of a Batarian star system to buy the galaxy some time. Did people just forget that Shepard had to destroy that mass relay?

[NyxFTW]

Forbry wrote...

I will never say or think I'm smarter than you or anyone here, but yes, I do think I (and many more "fans" with me) have a greater understanding of what the synthesis as portait by Bioware in this game entails.

Hypocracy at it's finest.

[Merwanor]

Wow there is lots of speculation here, we only have some facts about the ending.

Geth gain understanding of what it means to be organic, reapers help rebuild and share their knowledge. Emotions and personalities are still intact, since Liara (my LI) seems to act like she would act. People starts to rebuild and even makes things better. And Edi is happy it seems, and she states that the possibilites are beyond our imagination, and we might even trancend mortality itself.

Everything else, like brainwashing or losing our diversity is just speculation.

The fact that the Catalyst states that it is the pinnacle of evolution, is just wrong, as it is a contradiction in itself. As long as there is life, evolution will be there. Also the races of the galaxy has not even started exploring beyond our galaxy.

But if you just want to look at it negativily, you can just imagine that now as we all have become Borg, we can now extend our green influence out throughout the universe. Resistence is futile!!!

But from what the ending Bioware made, it seems everything is happy and tranquil.

[Lukeyguy]

@Angry One: You're better off ignoring Bone3ater- he lost the arguement in one of his first posts.

@Bone3ater: Crying pages about how you've been insulted, instead of constructing a valid and CONCISE arguement means you have lost. The synthesis ending is sinister because forcing genetic change on any sentient being is wrong. You cannot deny this. (Basic human rights being extended to other species)

I came to this thread wanting a reason to believe that synthesis was the best option. Instead, I have been convinced that it is one of the worst.

Modifié par Lukeyguy, 02 juillet 2012 - 03:18 .

[memorysquid]

Lukeyguy wrote...

@Bone3ater: Crying pages about how you've been insulted, instead of constructing a valid and CONCISE arguement means you have lost. The synthesis ending is sinister because forcing genetic change on any sentient being is wrong. You cannot deny this. (Basic human rights being extended to other species)

Sooo, Shepard is a war criminal for nuking 300K+ Batarians then, right?  He didn't consult them on whether or not they wanted genocide forced on them.  Plus, I completely understood that "you cannot deny this" in Harbinger's voice.  Statements like that are not only counterfactual, they are question begging.

[Zero132132]

Very carefully.

Turian brandy, triple filtered, then introduced into the suit through an emergency induction port.

Emergency..... induction..... port.....

[Lukeyguy]

memorysquid wrote...

Lukeyguy wrote...

@Bone3ater: Crying pages about how you've been insulted, instead of constructing a valid and CONCISE arguement means you have lost. The synthesis ending is sinister because forcing genetic change on any sentient being is wrong. You cannot deny this. (Basic human rights being extended to other species)

Sooo, Shepard is a war criminal for nuking 300K+ Batarians then, right?  He didn't consult them on whether or not they wanted genocide forced on them.  Plus, I completely understood that "you cannot deny this" in Harbinger's voice.  Statements like that are not only counterfactual, they are question begging.

My Shepard didn't nuke 300K Batarians (buying dlc is a choice).

You overall point seems a little unclear. Defining my statement as counter-factual, without evidence backing that up, seems a little week

[Caenis]

 

ghost9191 wrote...

too long?

 

Yeah I can be a little long winded, sorry about that. I'm not exactly the best at squeezing my ideas into small concepts. I try and tend to do better when I am not talking about things I care about this deeply .

Forbry wrote...

Caenis wrote...

 Synthesis is the Sci Fi version of Utopia: "Technological Utopia" : 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_utopianism

They have merged with machine which means they are Human+ (Transhuman) : http://en.wikipedia....i/Transhumanism 

(not to be confused with Post Human Theories) : 
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Posthumanism 
As there are two, "Post Human of the human species", and "Post Human in terms of Transhumanism."

Mass Effect played with this throughout the entire series, I sensed it, during the second game I was asking if anyone saw hints to Transhumanism, that's when Legion came into the picture while I was studying the Transhumanism movement. I was fascinated that Bioware would play with this and that not many were talking about it. It wasn't until ME3 after more conversations with EDI and little hints throughout the game that I began to think woah they really are going somewhere with this. I think Edi might have even had a conversation about it (and Shepard asks if she is one, Edi says no: ). Then we got to the end and I saw Synthesis... I felt 98% certain that this is where they had been heading with the conversations between Legion and Edi, and the war between the Geth, and even the conversations that began way back with Sovereign. Like it just seemed to me that they were ALWAYS headed in that direction and that they had been priming us.
The "Idea" of Synthesis is no different to me than an idea of utopia, like the idea of "Atlantis" or "Eden" or some other mythological Garden or Highly Advanced "Utopian" civilization, it is a place of peace and unity. But I believe that EVEN if something like Synthesis did happen (which it does in some parallel universes of Mass Effect ~), that the peace wouldn't last, that they would learn there is something greater than them out there, who may in turn wish to destroy them, or they may all sink into Atlantis. I also believe that they would continue to evolve past what their current idea of evolution is, and might even become something bigger than what Sovereign once was, and discover whole new Post-Galaxy ideas, that transcend even what we know. They could then become destroyed by some other massive threat that they didn't know about or that is was just unable to be stopped. So the Cycle would continue just in a different form provided they didn't go extinct. As Extinction no matter how evolved is always the RULE not the exception, and being one with the machine and able to self-improve on an as needed basis, is no exception.

I imagine that in this far future if they had the added benefit of "Reactive Evolution" similar to Darwing from the X-Men, where their bodies are programmed/designed to automatically adapt to new situations would be a plus for them. Imagine bacteria that rapidly adapted to eat Transhumans .

But these are all just "Ideas" that Mass Effect played with, which seemed at least in my mind fitting to the Sci Fi theme, though the more I think of it, ME plays with the Sci Fi genre but towards the end leaned more towards Speculative Fiction, a cross between Sci Fi and Fantasy (as the two historically have often been blurred) : 
http://en.wikipedia....fiction#Fantasy 

Why do none of the "haters" respond to this post?

Because my posts are so long and sometimes appear irrelevant, I usually expect them to be dismissed and forgotten. So nice surprise to hear it mentioned. I posted it more for information, as there were some things I was reading that seemed to be suggesting that the choice for Synthesis came as a surprise and was out of place. So I thought it might be interesting to post some information that objectively looked at the choice of Synthesis connecting it to the fact that it's just an 'idea' of utopia, and that we're really getting worked up over the "Idea" of peace and unity, because people didn't raise their hand for it.

The Angry One wrote...

Hater? How does one "hate" an act of evil rather than see it for what it is?
Moreover, what is there to respond to? That Mass Effect has had some concepts of transhumanism? Yes? And? So? Therefore? That justifies the sickening imposition of it on all life how?

 

My point really was just that the choice for "Syntheis"/ "Transhumanism" is an 'idea' of utopia, and in the contexts of this game it is not necessarily wrong, and that by debating about it we're really just beating ourselves up against a dead horse...bush...uh, however that saying goes. 

ghost9191 wrote...
well i just read through it, not sure if he is in favor of it or not, kinda seems like eitherway something bad will happen in synthesis. it is appealing but to have peace means you stagnate, you do not grow. and well idk i feel there woulld still be wars and such in synthesis., only difference would be a level playing field

 

I am for Synthesis, because Synthesis represents the IDEA of peace and unity. Though I accept the fact that it does not mean there will be eternal peace and everlasting love, and that it is NOT the only perfect solution. I view it objectively.

NyxFTW wrote...

I wasn't going to go this route, but I figured I'd give the general counter response for this.

Transhumanism in theory is something to be earned. Through a large stretch of time, history, and advancement of civilization. Synthesis is not applicable as a natural means of getting there. It is a cheat code or 'space magic' as people dubbed it. This is just a snap-your-fingers-and-bam-advanced-species kind of deal. And in science fiction this tends to have negative connotations attached. There is no cultivation of knowledge, or the scientific breakthroughs needed to get there. There is no reward for the hard work a species has done to achieve transhumanism. The galaxy was not ready and, (as ME has recalled previously with the Krogans) were mercilessly uplifted without a consensus of choice on the matter.

But whether or not the player considers Synthesis to be a bad thing is completely up to the player. In my headcanon, Synthesis would lead to an eventual revolt and self-destruction. While Destroy unfortunately took the lives of EDI and the Geth, it was a sacrifice they were willing to make. And Shepard has had to make tough calls before. I'm surprised that everyone freaks out about the sacrifice of the Geth when there was just the total destruction of a Batarian star system to buy the galaxy some time. Did people just forget that Shepard had to destroy that mass relay?

 

This is pretty much my overall point. That "Whether the player considers Synthesis to be a bad thing is completely up to the player." Looking at what it means to me objectively, and what I value. I value unity, peace, oneness, over freedom, and am willing to sacrifice humanity as a whole and embrace the destiny the Reapers have determined...in fact, I do believe that in all options except for Destroy the REAPERS win, but I don't believe the Reapers are necessarily the enemy and that it really isn't about 'black and white' win vs. lose, it's not that simple. In a way I believe the enemy is 'ourselves' and 'The Catalyst' at the same time.

In Control, my Shepard becomes the Catalyst controlling the Husks and Reapers who are tools, she becomes a reaper in exchange of peace for others on earth, saving them from becoming Husks and Reapers and allowing that 'inevitable' to come as it must. It's like in an exchange for one life as Reaper she spares billions of others from becoming them. In Synthesis my Shepard fulfills the 'destiny', all those quotes from Harbinger are fulfilled. It makes you wonder with Indoctrination, and the enemy, you become what you fight, and it makes you or at least me question...that overall the people who were indoctrinated saw what Shepard saw, what we all saw, or they saw something that suggested to them that the Reapers were their salvation, and believed that "They were the One", the one who could successfully control them. The difference is Shepard was the one.

I suppose the point isn't about if Shepard is the One or Not, it's whether it is 'morally' acceptable. But because I view it more as an 'Idea' and my values of that Idea when weighed against what had to be sacrificed, meant that I was more willing to choose Synthesis.

Some people might see the sacrifice of killing off the human race, or taking away people's free will or choice as totally immoral and are willing to sacrifice an entire 'sentient race' or emerging sentience just to self-preserve their own life. It's not necessarily wrong it's the values and choices they made and what they were willing to sacrifice. Every choice had a really BIG Sacrifice that you had to make, but at the end of the day the sacrifice was made depending on how much it weighed against your values.


Some Harbinger Quotes in relation to "Synthesis and Control"

• This is True Power
• The forces of the universe bend to me
• You are shortsighted
• The body does not matter
• The flesh is the machine
• Evolution cannot be stopped
• They will be as we are.
• Embrace Perfection
• You prolong the Inevitable
• Your Death is assured

Modifié par Caenis, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:45 .