933 réponses à ce sujet

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


How do you know the Galaxy isn't united and won't sacrifice anyone even if it means all of them dying. Like i said you can't prove me wrong.

Because logic dictates that not everyone in the galaxy is a complete and utter idiot.

Answer the question, also i should add, I remember talking to EDI, I don't quite remember the story but it went that some people decided to all die instead than to sacrifice each other. Also, do you believe in this quote... "is submission not preferable to extinction"
I remember my shep in ME1 saying I rather die trying.

How is killing the Reapers submission? It's hard to give orders when you're dead.

You killed the Reapers but you submitted to the Catalyst by picking one of its absurd options and destroying the Geth.

The catalyst is dead too. I don't see the problem here.

Whether or not hes dead, you submitted to the Catalyst by picking one of its absurd options and destroying the Geth.

Was it part of his plan to die? How diabolical. They're the crucible's options, not the catalyst's. It's clear he thinks destroy is bad.

[Vexille]

so Khajiit, if you were told that 100 people were going to be murdered unless you killed one of the 100 you wouldnt do it?

You wouldnt sacrifice the few to save the many?

[Father_Jerusalem]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


How do you know the Galaxy isn't united and won't sacrifice anyone even if it means all of them dying. Like i said you can't prove me wrong.

Because logic dictates that not everyone in the galaxy is a complete and utter idiot.

Answer the question, also i should add, I remember talking to EDI, I don't quite remember the story but it went that some people decided to all die instead than to sacrifice each other. Also, do you believe in this quote... "is submission not preferable to extinction"
I remember my shep in ME1 saying I rather die trying.

What gives Shepard the moral right to make that decision for EVERY OTHER LIFEFORM IN THE GALAXY? Even if 99% of them were okay with dying horrible horrible deaths for some nebulous "cause" (and they wouldn't be, because they're not idiots) would sacrificing that 1% of ALL LIFE still be worth it for not sacrificing the Geth? 

Even if that 1% was more than the 1.5 billion Geth that there are?

Yes, killing EDI and the Geth is a tragedy. It's SUPPOSED to be. It's supposed to reinforce that wars have sacrifice and that you have to make the hard choices. Personally, I prefer Control. But Refuse? Refuse is the most selfish, cowardly, morally self-righteous ending imaginable. You don't want the Catalyst to force his decisions on the denizens of the galaxy? Well congratulations buddy, you're no different because that's exactly what you. Just. Did.

At least the Catalyst's "forcing" allows everyone to still be alive, which is more than we can say for Shepard's.

You can say that about Control, destroy, and synthesis as well.

No. You can't. Because then people are still ALIVE. If they don't like it, they can then choose to change that fact, on their own. If they're all dead, there's nothing they can do to change the fact that they didn't want Shepard to make that choice.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Vexille wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


How do you know the Galaxy isn't united and won't sacrifice anyone even if it means all of them dying. Like i said you can't prove me wrong.

Because logic dictates that not everyone in the galaxy is a complete and utter idiot.

Answer the question, also i should add, I remember talking to EDI, I don't quite remember the story but it went that some people decided to all die instead than to sacrifice each other. Also, do you believe in this quote... "is submission not preferable to extinction"
I remember my shep in ME1 saying I rather die trying.

I think you are just the worst general ever

as garrus said... its just the ruthless calculus of war... deciding that 10 billion people over here die so that 20 billion people over their live.

you on the other hand just choose to kill everyone because you are afraid of making the tough decisions

Wrong, Like I said beforehand I didn't know everyone beforehand everyone was going to die, and you even admitted to their being a slim chance so you can't argue with that. Did we fail, yes, did we know beforehand, no. Unless you know everything beforehand you wouldn't know for sure we were going to fail. Also, When Garrus told me that I disagreed so I don't get the point.

I wouldn't be the worst general, a stubborn one maybe, but not the worst. I just think to the believe that we will do everything united as a whole not sacrifice anyone, we never agreed to that, and I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants.

[ghost9191]

i do not try to justify genocide, there is no justification for it, but i will not commit ethnocide in it's place on a much larger scale. the sacrifice of the few for the many . and way too risky with control. the catalyst was created for the same reasons basically. so that left me with destroy which i choose.

[AxStapleton]

Round and round the circle of "You're wrong! No, you're wrong" we go.

Modifié par AxStapleton, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:48 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

There's some garbled noise in the Normandy scene or shortly after coming from Harbinger that sounds like "save us" or "help us", and sort of would explain why it doesn't fire on the Normandy. It doesn't really want to kill Shepard. We have stated in other threads about the consciousness inside the reapers, if any, is like how Javik describes his memory shard -- it contains nothing but pain. They are being controlled and forced to do things they don't want to do. They want it to end.

So Shepard has that opportunity. The Crucible is not of Reaper design. Starbrat mentions that they became aware of the Crucible several cycles ago. It is a WMD designed to destroy the reapers. Someone figured out the Reapers were being controlled by an AI and designed a programming interface that would cause it to send out a signal to destroy the reapers. Now this AI took some countermeasures when it docked and added the Control and Synthesis options.

The destroy beam destroys all synthetic life, and will cause some synthetic tech to go inactive depending upon how much damage the Crucible took on its way in. I'm looking at the EMS @ over 9000. Yes I play multiplayer and have done promotions. The Crucible is undamaged. The Geth are gone. There was no way to make peace so I sided with the Quarians. EDI has already told me she would be willing to become non-functional if it meant defeating the reapers, and was quite adamant about it.

Refusing would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It would condemn the entire galaxy to death, because the battle plan was not drawn up to win conventionally. I do not want to picture the love interest encounter in Hell. It would not be pretty.

So I will shoot the red tube, and take my chances.

[Omega2079]

There's no easy way out. They are all hard choices, just like your powers in multiplayer. The endings are balanced.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


How do you know the Galaxy isn't united and won't sacrifice anyone even if it means all of them dying. Like i said you can't prove me wrong.

Because logic dictates that not everyone in the galaxy is a complete and utter idiot.

Answer the question, also i should add, I remember talking to EDI, I don't quite remember the story but it went that some people decided to all die instead than to sacrifice each other. Also, do you believe in this quote... "is submission not preferable to extinction"
I remember my shep in ME1 saying I rather die trying.

What gives Shepard the moral right to make that decision for EVERY OTHER LIFEFORM IN THE GALAXY? Even if 99% of them were okay with dying horrible horrible deaths for some nebulous "cause" (and they wouldn't be, because they're not idiots) would sacrificing that 1% of ALL LIFE still be worth it for not sacrificing the Geth? 

Even if that 1% was more than the 1.5 billion Geth that there are?

Yes, killing EDI and the Geth is a tragedy. It's SUPPOSED to be. It's supposed to reinforce that wars have sacrifice and that you have to make the hard choices. Personally, I prefer Control. But Refuse? Refuse is the most selfish, cowardly, morally self-righteous ending imaginable. You don't want the Catalyst to force his decisions on the denizens of the galaxy? Well congratulations buddy, you're no different because that's exactly what you. Just. Did.

At least the Catalyst's "forcing" allows everyone to still be alive, which is more than we can say for Shepard's.

You can say that about Control, destroy, and synthesis as well.

No. You can't. Because then people are still ALIVE. If they don't like it, they can then choose to change that fact, on their own. If they're all dead, there's nothing they can do to change the fact that they didn't want Shepard to make that choice.

How can you choose to change synthesis, or control? And you can't speak for everyone, Javik would have rather die than to work with Reapers, and many people would hate to co-exist with Reapers after wiping out their families. And yes I can say that, whichever desicion you make, your making it without the consent of the galaxy but just yourselve.

[Tealjaker94]

AxStapleton wrote...

Round and round the circle of "You're wrong! No, you're wrong" we go.

At least it's entertaining. And I know I made the right choice.

[AxStapleton]

Omega2079 wrote...

There's no easy way out. They are all hard choices, just like your powers in multiplayer. The endings are balanced.

Some wisdom, right there.

[Rip504]

Shepard's intent was not murder,therefor no murder occurred.!.

[Kaica]

"I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants."

Well, I stated earlier that my choice wouldn't change no matter the race. Even if it was many races. All I need is someone to enjoy the result and make babies. It is up to everyone whether they believe me or not.

And I expected Shepard to die because of his implants (you can see it on the first page). And I wouldn't mind if it destroyed people with implants (oh god why does this sound like breasts) if there were some left to *look above*

[AxStapleton]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Round and round the circle of "You're wrong! No, you're wrong" we go.

At least it's entertaining. And I know I made the right choice.

I know, I never intended it to end up like this, but then I guess I should have know better.

[Kaica]

AxStapleton wrote...

Round and round the circle of "You're wrong! No, you're wrong" we go.

That is because
1.) There is no correct answer, only opinions
2.) Someone(s) can't admit they may be mistaken.


Fun to watch, though!

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Kaica wrote...

"I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants."

Well, I stated earlier that my choice wouldn't change no matter the race. Even if it was many races. All I need is someone to enjoy the result and make babies. It is up to everyone whether they believe me or not.

And I expected Shepard to die because of his implants (you can see it on the first page). And I wouldn't mind if it destroyed people with implants (oh god why does this sound like breasts) if there were some left to *look above*

Some, not all. But many people choose destroy just to either live or because they don't care about the Geth.

[Funkdrspot]

ghost9191 wrote...

i do not try to justify genocide, there is no justification for it, but i will not commit ethnocide in it's place on a much larger scale. the sacrifice of the few for the many . and way too risky with control. the catalyst was created for the same reasons basically. so that left me with destroy which i choose.

You cannot judge Shepard based on what the catalyst did.

I wrote this in another thread:

2 problems with your argument.

1, its based on a fallacy that a
possibilty (power corrupts) is as certain as the fact (+9 races and +100
billion dead).

2, power corrupts MORTAL minds. Shepard has shown to be
above coruption and no longer has the normal concerns of a mortal
individual. and before you point me to the catalyst, remember that the
core of a person is determined by their personality and that is
determined by their life experiences. Shep had those BEFORE becomming
the catalyst, the catalyst did not. The catalyst let his prime objective
mold who he was, Shep is letting who he is mold his prime objective

[Bill Casey]

Control will end badly...
It's unpickable...

This game gave me PTSD...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 01 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .

[Vexille]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


How do you know the Galaxy isn't united and won't sacrifice anyone even if it means all of them dying. Like i said you can't prove me wrong.

Because logic dictates that not everyone in the galaxy is a complete and utter idiot.

Answer the question, also i should add, I remember talking to EDI, I don't quite remember the story but it went that some people decided to all die instead than to sacrifice each other. Also, do you believe in this quote... "is submission not preferable to extinction"
I remember my shep in ME1 saying I rather die trying.

I think you are just the worst general ever

as garrus said... its just the ruthless calculus of war... deciding that 10 billion people over here die so that 20 billion people over their live.

you on the other hand just choose to kill everyone because you are afraid of making the tough decisions

Wrong, Like I said beforehand I didn't know everyone beforehand everyone was going to die, and you even admitted to their being a slim chance so you can't argue with that. Did we fail, yes, did we know beforehand, no. Unless you know everything beforehand you wouldn't know for sure we were going to fail. Also, When Garrus told me that I disagreed so I don't get the point.

I wouldn't be the worst general, a stubborn one maybe, but not the worst. I just think to the believe that we will do everything united as a whole not sacrifice anyone, we never agreed to that, and I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants.

your choice would have killed every advanced race currently in existence... yes that would qualify you for the worst general ever.

highlighted is untrue... people are CONSTANTLY being sacraficed in the reaper war, this "everything united as a whole not sacrifice anyone" is something you made up and has no foundation in the game itself. the 3rd fleet was sacrificed, arloch (the krogans) company was sacraficed for the rachni queen, entire planets are sacrificed to the reapers and left defenseless.

you cant save everyone is highlighted THROUGH OUT the game.

[Kaica]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kaica wrote...

"I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants."

Well, I stated earlier that my choice wouldn't change no matter the race. Even if it was many races. All I need is someone to enjoy the result and make babies. It is up to everyone whether they believe me or not.

And I expected Shepard to die because of his implants (you can see it on the first page). And I wouldn't mind if it destroyed people with implants (oh god why does this sound like breasts) if there were some left to *look above*

Some, not all. But many people choose destroy just to either live or because they don't care about the Geth.

Some, not all. But to be honest, at first you stated that all of us (destroyers) were genocidal monsters

No offence meant.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...



How can you choose to change synthesis, or control? And you can't speak for everyone, Javik would have rather die than to work with Reapers, and many people would hate to co-exist with Reapers after wiping out their families. And yes I can say that, whichever desicion you make, your making it without the consent of the galaxy but just yourselve.

If they don't like living in a world with Synthesis or Control, they have the option to commit suicide after the fact.

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

Modifié par Father_Jerusalem, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:00 .

[Bill Casey]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

You haven't seen the poll, have you?

[Tealjaker94]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

How can you choose to change synthesis, or control? And you can't speak for everyone, Javik would have rather die than to work with Reapers, and many people would hate to co-exist with Reapers after wiping out their families. And yes I can say that, whichever desicion you make, your making it without the consent of the galaxy but just yourselve.

If they don't like living in a world with Synthesis or Control, they have the option to commit suicide after the fact.

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

OK, this is absolutely outrageous. If you don't like it you can kill yourself? You can't honestly believe that's fair, can you?

[Father_Jerusalem]

Omega2079 wrote...

There's no easy way out. They are all hard choices, just like your powers in multiplayer. The endings are balanced.

Some of the powers in multiplayer aren't really that hard of a choice to make, unfortunately. Concussive shot rank 6 - if you take the Amplification power, you're doing it wrong. 

Well no. I see your point.

Refuse is like Concussive shot rank 6 Amplification. If you choose it, you're doing it wrong.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Bill Casey wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

You haven't seen the poll, have you?

Yet another biased self-selective poll that is in no way demonstrative of the fanbase, or indeed the populace, at large?

No. I haven't seen it. Because it's worthless.