933 réponses à ce sujet

[Tealjaker94]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

There's no easy way out. They are all hard choices, just like your powers in multiplayer. The endings are balanced.

Some of the powers in multiplayer aren't really that hard of a choice to make, unfortunately. Concussive shot rank 6 - if you take the Amplification power, you're doing it wrong. 

Well no. I see your point.

Refuse is like Concussive shot rank 6 Amplification. If you choose it, you're doing it wrong.

There's no right choice. But there is a wrong one.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Vexille wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


How do you know the Galaxy isn't united and won't sacrifice anyone even if it means all of them dying. Like i said you can't prove me wrong.

Because logic dictates that not everyone in the galaxy is a complete and utter idiot.

Answer the question, also i should add, I remember talking to EDI, I don't quite remember the story but it went that some people decided to all die instead than to sacrifice each other. Also, do you believe in this quote... "is submission not preferable to extinction"
I remember my shep in ME1 saying I rather die trying.

I think you are just the worst general ever

as garrus said... its just the ruthless calculus of war... deciding that 10 billion people over here die so that 20 billion people over their live.

you on the other hand just choose to kill everyone because you are afraid of making the tough decisions

Wrong, Like I said beforehand I didn't know everyone beforehand everyone was going to die, and you even admitted to their being a slim chance so you can't argue with that. Did we fail, yes, did we know beforehand, no. Unless you know everything beforehand you wouldn't know for sure we were going to fail. Also, When Garrus told me that I disagreed so I don't get the point.

I wouldn't be the worst general, a stubborn one maybe, but not the worst. I just think to the believe that we will do everything united as a whole not sacrifice anyone, we never agreed to that, and I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants.

your choice would have killed every advanced race currently in existence... yes that would qualify you for the worst general ever.

highlighted is untrue... people are CONSTANTLY being sacraficed in the reaper war, this "everything united as a whole not sacrifice anyone" is something you made up and has no foundation in the game itself. the 3rd fleet was sacrificed, arloch (the krogans) company was sacraficed for the rachni queen, entire planets are sacrificed to the reapers and left defenseless.

you cant save everyone is highlighted THROUGH OUT the game.

Again your comparing a fleet, to billions of people. Arloch company doesn't need to be sacrificed. I never said we had to save everyone, but im not destroying a whole species, we are an united galaxy we will fight not surrender to the catalyst logic and reasoning. And the next cycles defeats the Reapers based on your information, so I died, I didn't commit Genocide, and the Reapers ended up being defeated.

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:03 .

[RethenX]

how can you murder a machine?

[Tealjaker94]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

You haven't seen the poll, have you?

Yet another biased self-selective poll that is in no way demonstrative of the fanbase, or indeed the populace, at large?

No. I haven't seen it. Because it's worthless.

It's more than you have to back up your claim.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

How can you choose to change synthesis, or control? And you can't speak for everyone, Javik would have rather die than to work with Reapers, and many people would hate to co-exist with Reapers after wiping out their families. And yes I can say that, whichever desicion you make, your making it without the consent of the galaxy but just yourselve.

If they don't like living in a world with Synthesis or Control, they have the option to commit suicide after the fact.

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

OK, this is absolutely outrageous. If you don't like it you can kill yourself? You can't honestly believe that's fair, can you?

I'm saying it's an option granted to people who live in a Control/Synthesis/Destroy world and who disagree with the choice that Shepard made, and that there is utterly NO option for people who live in a Refuse world and who disagree with the choice Shepard made.

Is it fair? Absolutely not. But either is Shepard choosing to kill all advanced life in the galaxy on the basis of his "morality".

[Rip504]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kaica wrote...

"I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants."

Well, I stated earlier that my choice wouldn't change no matter the race. Even if it was many races. All I need is someone to enjoy the result and make babies. It is up to everyone whether they believe me or not.

And I expected Shepard to die because of his implants (you can see it on the first page). And I wouldn't mind if it destroyed people with implants (oh god why does this sound like breasts) if there were some left to *look above*

Some, not all. But many people choose destroy just to either live or because they don't care about the Geth.

Or to destroy the Reapers and free not only our cycle,but any other race to come along in the future. At the small sacrifice of the current cycle's synthetic lifeforms. The Reapers deserve death,nothing else IMO. They have murdered countless civilizations. It is their time to pay for their crimes. The Geth is and will be their last crime ever. Shepard is not blamed or held accountable for the death of the Geth,no this course of action is set into motion by the actions of the Reapers,therefor the Reapers are responsible for the death of the Geth. Not Shepard.

I was willing to allow one sacrifice for the freedom of the entire galaxy and the future of all and everything.  I kill hostile Geth everyday in MP. Geth who have killed countless organics with little to NO remorse.(For over 300 years) The Geth have always felt their actions have been justified. So do others who agree or support them. Well Shepard and many living organics will also feel that my destroy choice is Justified. I destroyed the Reapers in "self-defense" so the death of the Geth is right and justified.



"The needs of the many,outweigh the needs of a few." Who Dat!

Modifié par Rip504, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:06 .

[Funkdrspot]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

How can you choose to change synthesis, or control? And you can't speak for everyone, Javik would have rather die than to work with Reapers, and many people would hate to co-exist with Reapers after wiping out their families. And yes I can say that, whichever desicion you make, your making it without the consent of the galaxy but just yourselve.

If they don't like living in a world with Synthesis or Control, they have the option to commit suicide after the fact.

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

OK, this is absolutely outrageous. If you don't like it you can kill yourself? You can't honestly believe that's fair, can you?

It's totally fair when in the context of the situation. You were going to die anyways, so a choice was made to save you. If you don't like the details of that choice that were made for you, then by all means you have the option to die like you were going to before said choice was made.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

You haven't seen the poll, have you?

Yet another biased self-selective poll that is in no way demonstrative of the fanbase, or indeed the populace, at large?

No. I haven't seen it. Because it's worthless.

It's more than you have to back up your claim.

And the poll is irrelevant because its being asked to fans, not to the people who lost their families by the reapers and that have caused so much destruction in their lifes

[Kaica]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

You haven't seen the poll, have you?

Yet another biased self-selective poll that is in no way demonstrative of the fanbase, or indeed the populace, at large?

No. I haven't seen it. Because it's worthless.

Haha yes! I wish we could have polls that actually represent the opinions of the whole fanbase, not only a selective group. One can dream

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

How can you choose to change synthesis, or control? And you can't speak for everyone, Javik would have rather die than to work with Reapers, and many people would hate to co-exist with Reapers after wiping out their families. And yes I can say that, whichever desicion you make, your making it without the consent of the galaxy but just yourselve.

If they don't like living in a world with Synthesis or Control, they have the option to commit suicide after the fact.

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

OK, this is absolutely outrageous. If you don't like it you can kill yourself? You can't honestly believe that's fair, can you?

I'm saying it's an option granted to people who live in a Control/Synthesis/Destroy world and who disagree with the choice that Shepard made, and that there is utterly NO option for people who live in a Refuse world and who disagree with the choice Shepard made.

Is it fair? Absolutely not. But either is Shepard choosing to kill all advanced life in the galaxy on the basis of his "morality".

Its the same thing, their going to end up dead....

[Tealjaker94]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

How can you choose to change synthesis, or control? And you can't speak for everyone, Javik would have rather die than to work with Reapers, and many people would hate to co-exist with Reapers after wiping out their families. And yes I can say that, whichever desicion you make, your making it without the consent of the galaxy but just yourselve.

If they don't like living in a world with Synthesis or Control, they have the option to commit suicide after the fact.

And I'm betting the number of people who would hate to co-exist with the Reapers < the number of people who would be okay with all life in the galaxy dying because you wouldn't make a hard choice. 

OK, this is absolutely outrageous. If you don't like it you can kill yourself? You can't honestly believe that's fair, can you?

It's totally fair when in the context of the situation. You were going to die anyways, so a choice was made to save you. If you don't like the details of that choice that were made for you, then by all means you have the option to die like you were going to before said choice was made.

i personally choose the option where we aren't turned into cyborgs, so noone really has a reason to commit suicide. Seems much nicer to me, but we're getting off topic. 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Rip504 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kaica wrote...

"I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants."

Well, I stated earlier that my choice wouldn't change no matter the race. Even if it was many races. All I need is someone to enjoy the result and make babies. It is up to everyone whether they believe me or not.

And I expected Shepard to die because of his implants (you can see it on the first page). And I wouldn't mind if it destroyed people with implants (oh god why does this sound like breasts) if there were some left to *look above*

Some, not all. But many people choose destroy just to either live or because they don't care about the Geth.

Or to destroy the Reapers and free not only our cycle,but any other race to come along in the future. At the small sacrifice of the current cycle's synthetic lifeforms. The Reapers deserve death,nothing else IMO. They have murdered countless civilizations. It is their time to pay for their crimes. The Geth is and will be their last crime ever. Shepard is not blamed or held accountable for the death of the Geth,no this course of action is set into motion by the actions of the Reapers,therefor the Reapers are responsible for the death of the Geth. Not Shepard.

I was willing to allow one sacrifice for the freedom of the entire galaxy and the future of all and everything.  I kill hostile Geth everyday in MP. Geth who have killed countless organics with little to NO remorse.(For over 300 years) The Geth have always felt their actions have been justified. So do others who agree or support them. Well Shepard and many living organics will also feel that my destroy choice is Justified. I destroyed the Reapers in "self-defense" so the death of the Geth is right and justified.



"The needs of the many,outweigh the needs of a few." Who Dat!

Shepard is responsible, and also, I said a some not you.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


Its the same thing, their going to end up dead....

It's NOT the same thing. In my scenario there is one key difference - each person has the ability to choose for themselves, not have that choice foisted upon them by one person who the VAST majority of them have never met, may not even know exists, don't necessarily trust, and would never EVER allow to represent them under these, or any, circumstances.

The ability to make your own choice > having that choice thrust upon you with literally no recourse by someone else.

If Shepard chooses Refuse, they all die. Full. Stop. There is NOTHING they can do about it.

Modifié par Father_Jerusalem, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:11 .

[Kasrkin]

Being an officer, and choosing whom to order off to their deaths does not make one a murderer.

It makes you a soldier, a commander.

Destroying the reapers by sacrificing synthetics is crappy, but I certainly wasn't expecting a sunshine and rainbows ending to ME3.

[Miezul_Carpatin]

The destroy choice felt for me just like the choice made by the council in Avengers at the end.
And my feelings were just the same as Nick Fury's : "I recognise the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."

Modifié par Miezul_Carpatin, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:12 .

[Kaica]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kaica wrote...

"I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants."

Well, I stated earlier that my choice wouldn't change no matter the race. Even if it was many races. All I need is someone to enjoy the result and make babies. It is up to everyone whether they believe me or not.

And I expected Shepard to die because of his implants (you can see it on the first page). And I wouldn't mind if it destroyed people with implants (oh god why does this sound like breasts) if there were some left to *look above*

Some, not all. But many people choose destroy just to either live or because they don't care about the Geth.

Or to destroy the Reapers and free not only our cycle,but any other race to come along in the future. At the small sacrifice of the current cycle's synthetic lifeforms. The Reapers deserve death,nothing else IMO. They have murdered countless civilizations. It is their time to pay for their crimes. The Geth is and will be their last crime ever. Shepard is not blamed or held accountable for the death of the Geth,no this course of action is set into motion by the actions of the Reapers,therefor the Reapers are responsible for the death of the Geth. Not Shepard.

I was willing to allow one sacrifice for the freedom of the entire galaxy and the future of all and everything.  I kill hostile Geth everyday in MP. Geth who have killed countless organics with little to NO remorse.(For over 300 years) The Geth have always felt their actions have been justified. So do others who agree or support them. Well Shepard and many living organics will also feel that my destroy choice is Justified. I destroyed the Reapers in "self-defense" so the death of the Geth is right and justified.



"The needs of the many,outweigh the needs of a few." Who Dat!

Shepard is responsible, and also, I said a some not you.

Was the last sentence directed to my comment?

[AxStapleton]

Miezul_Carpatin wrote...

The destroy choice felt for me just like the choice made by the council in Avengers at the end.
And my feelings were just the same as Nick Fury's : "I recognise the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."

We don't have a bunch of kick-ass superheroes to save us this time.

[Tealjaker94]

Miezul_Carpatin wrote...

The destroy choice felt for me just like the choice made by the council in Avengers at the end.
And my feelings were just the same as Nick Fury's : "I recognise the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."

Great line, but unfortunately we don't have the avengers here to destroy the reapers.
Edit: damn, ninja'd:ph34r:

Modifié par Tealjaker94, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:14 .

[Reorte]

This still going on? I think I'll go and play MP and kill some geth for fun.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

[quote]Father_Jerusalem wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...


[/quote]Its the same thing, their going to end up dead....
[/quote]

It's NOT the same thing. In my scenario there is one key difference - each person has the ability to choose for themselves, not have that choice foisted upon them by one person who the VAST majority of them have never met, may not even know exists, don't necessarily trust, and would never EVER allow to represent them under these, or any, circumstances.

The ability to make your own choice > having that choice thrust upon you with literally no recourse by someone else.

If Shepard chooses Refuse, they all die. Full. Stop. There is NOTHING they can do about it.
[/quote]First thing synthesis makes no sense but I'll try to reason with unreason. Your DNA/Framework is changed and you hate that, but you don't want to kill yourselve. Therefore is a choice that is thrusted upon you and you can't do anythhing about it. The point of them killing themselves is absurd, I explained a lot of people would hate to co-exist with the reapers, and i mean a lot. So what, you want a mass suicide you find that better? your logic is so absurd im going to stop arguing it until you provide a decent point.

[Tealjaker94]

Reorte wrote...

This still going on? I think I'll go and play MP and kill some geth for fun.

But I already killed all of them.

[Miezul_Carpatin]

Yes, but he didn't know if the Avengers would be able do shut down the portal. The safe decision would have been to nuke the city.

Also in ME3 there are other choices that can stop the reapers without "nuking" anybody. Just my 2 cents.

Modifié par Miezul_Carpatin, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:17 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Kaica wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kaica wrote...

"I'm pretty sure for destroyers supporters the situation would chance if the Catalyst told them their favorite species had to die, also, at the time picking Destroy is a risk too, how do you know it won't destroy people with synthetic implants."

Well, I stated earlier that my choice wouldn't change no matter the race. Even if it was many races. All I need is someone to enjoy the result and make babies. It is up to everyone whether they believe me or not.

And I expected Shepard to die because of his implants (you can see it on the first page). And I wouldn't mind if it destroyed people with implants (oh god why does this sound like breasts) if there were some left to *look above*

Some, not all. But many people choose destroy just to either live or because they don't care about the Geth.

Or to destroy the Reapers and free not only our cycle,but any other race to come along in the future. At the small sacrifice of the current cycle's synthetic lifeforms. The Reapers deserve death,nothing else IMO. They have murdered countless civilizations. It is their time to pay for their crimes. The Geth is and will be their last crime ever. Shepard is not blamed or held accountable for the death of the Geth,no this course of action is set into motion by the actions of the Reapers,therefor the Reapers are responsible for the death of the Geth. Not Shepard.

I was willing to allow one sacrifice for the freedom of the entire galaxy and the future of all and everything.  I kill hostile Geth everyday in MP. Geth who have killed countless organics with little to NO remorse.(For over 300 years) The Geth have always felt their actions have been justified. So do others who agree or support them. Well Shepard and many living organics will also feel that my destroy choice is Justified. I destroyed the Reapers in "self-defense" so the death of the Geth is right and justified.



"The needs of the many,outweigh the needs of a few." Who Dat!

Shepard is responsible, and also, I said a some not you.

Was the last sentence directed to my comment?

No, but it can apply to you, I understand your reasons for choosing Destroy, but i said a lot of people who choose destroy do it for the sole purpose because shepard can live.

[Alushadow]

AxStapleton wrote...

Just to dispel the common notion that ALL destroyers hate or don't care about the Geth or EDI, My Shep did. Very much so. He brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians. He encouraged Joker to try a relationship with EDI. He was a true Paragon. He was just incredibly weary of the two other options. My Shep was just talking to the Illusive Man about how high the risks of Control were, "Are you willing to bet Humanity's existence on it?" We've seen what one entity in control of that level of power has done. My Shepard, for all the universe's imperfections, loved diversity. Forcing that level of change, taking away that diversity (even if it was only on the level of Organics and Synthetics) was abhorrent to him, images of the Reapers and the Husks of all the species come to mind. In his mind, it was the Catalyst's solution. The Reaper's solution. This left him with Destroy. He could erase the Reapers from existence, the Catalyst would be no more. Life would be free. Diversity eventually preserved. But at a terrible cost. The Geth and EDI. But he had to take that decision. He would have taken it if it cost any one of the other races instead of the Synthetics, including Humanity. He considered them just as alive. But it didn't make him feel  any better. However, he didn't buy the crap that it was inevitable for  Synthetics to wipe out all other life. His past experiences taught him  this. Synthetics could be rebuilt. But he knew there would be no  bringing EDI or the Geth back. He hopes that they'll be remembered. That when the time comes for new Synthetic intelligences to be built, that  the lessons learned in this war would not be forgotten. That the same  mistakes wouldn't be repeated. There might not be much left. But there is hope.

Not all destroyers are heartless murderers.
 
P.S.Nor am I saying that people who chose anything else are any worse than me. They're all valid options with a high risk/cost. This is purely my reasoning behind me choosing the Destroy option. Its just a case of what cost you are willing to take to do what you percieve must be done.

by accepting to play and end mass effect you are a mass murder
by taking 1 of the 3 options you agree with a mass murderer and pretty much help him get his way
so you are just as good as he is
to agree to the genocide of gazillion souls by accepting his will
you are a mass murderer
and by refusing to accept is aw so flawed logic
you condemn the galaxy all the people you know and love to be submitted to complete genocide
making you yes you guessed it correct A mass murder yet again

my signature says it all
no matter what you do its over before it even started
no matter how you spin it you are not going to win

[AxStapleton]

Miezul_Carpatin wrote...

Yes, but he didn't know if the Avengers would be able do shut down the portal. The safe decision would have been to nuke the city.

He knew the Avengers were currently kicking the enemy to kingdom come.