933 réponses à ce sujet

[AxStapleton]

iAFKinMassEffect3 wrote...

Control is the moral choice in picking an ending.

It also has serious repurcussions if it goes wrong. It isn't Shepard who'll be controlling the Reapers but Shep's memories and goals that will be copy and pasted onto the Catalyst. It has a huge payoff if it works, possibly even higher than Synthesis. But I shudder to think what would happen if it reads too deeply into "protecting everyone" at some point in the future.

All choices aren't at all moral in My Shep's book. But action is better than no action at all.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So you choose refuse and allow everyone to die instead of just the geth and edi? That sounds even worse. Plus the Geth and Edi are a necessary sacrifice to make sure the Reaper threat is gone. Control and Synthesis don't accomplish that.

Yes, I rather all die as a galaxy than to have to do something a starbrat told me and commit genocide to a species that had agreed to help me. "I won't let fear comprimise who i am" 

So you sacrifice everyone for nothing? ok glad we cleared that up.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

No, what you did was throw away everyone's lives when you could have killed the Reapers and won. You see the people in the destroy ending cheering as the Reapers die? I'm pretty sure they don't care what you did to bring them victory.

That point is invalid coming from you, previously you were arguing against Synthesis and Control, yet people cheer on those endings. Again as i said before, The galaxy didn't agree to commit Genocide, or control them, or co-exist with them. We agree to kill them in our terms or die trying.

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So destroying the Reapers makes you a genocidal monster, but not condemning every sapient species in the galaxy to extinction? Because that is what you do when you choose the Reject Ending.

Destroy is the only ending where Shepard and the galaxy actually win the Reaper war. Control and Synthesis are stalemate endings.

I'm going to copy and pase my previous post.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not commit genocide or control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

If you truly fear sacrificing allies so much go play ME1 again. When you get to Virmire and have to choose between Ash and Kaidan, don't do anything. Better that you all just die then have the guilt of someone's death to deal with, right?

[Reorte]

Rasofe wrote...

As said by a Rogue AI on Godcaine, you'd expect it not to understand that to be alive you don't have to be organic.
Anyway, remember what EDI said, earlier? If she was to approach the Reapers with the questions she wants answered she would be terminated, and the Godchild confirms why. They don't understand.

EDI seems to be moving towards understanding. The geth and organics don't but seem to be moving towards finding the differences fascinating instead of threatening. That should've been the change that makes the Catalyst say that its solution no longer works but him saying "Oh, right, fair enough" followed by the Reapers buggering off would've been rather anti-climactic.

[What a Succulent Ass]

I don't know about you, homie, but I killed six people with two axes just this last week.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So you choose refuse and allow everyone to die instead of just the geth and edi? That sounds even worse. Plus the Geth and Edi are a necessary sacrifice to make sure the Reaper threat is gone. Control and Synthesis don't accomplish that.

Yes, I rather all die as a galaxy than to have to do something a starbrat told me and commit genocide to a species that had agreed to help me. "I won't let fear comprimise who i am" 

So you sacrifice everyone for nothing? ok glad we cleared that up.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

Having done everything except using the superweapon that was the centerpoint of your plan.

When we build the weapon it was suppose to be used to destroy the reapers, but not to commit genocide in the process.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So destroying the Reapers makes you a genocidal monster, but not condemning every sapient species in the galaxy to extinction? Because that is what you do when you choose the Reject Ending.

Destroy is the only ending where Shepard and the galaxy actually win the Reaper war. Control and Synthesis are stalemate endings.

I'm going to copy and pase my previous post.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not commit genocide or control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

If you truly fear sacrificing allies so much go play ME1 again. When you get to Virmire and have to choose between Ash and Kaidan, don't do anything. Better that you all just die then have the guilt of someone's death to deal with, right?

Your going to compare the death of a squadmate and the genocide of an entire species? 

[Master Xanthan]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So you choose refuse and allow everyone to die instead of just the geth and edi? That sounds even worse. Plus the Geth and Edi are a necessary sacrifice to make sure the Reaper threat is gone. Control and Synthesis don't accomplish that.

Yes, I rather all die as a galaxy than to have to do something a starbrat told me and commit genocide to a species that had agreed to help me. "I won't let fear comprimise who i am" 

So you sacrifice everyone for nothing? ok glad we cleared that up.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

No, what you did was throw away everyone's lives when you could have killed the Reapers and won. You see the people in the destroy ending cheering as the Reapers die? I'm pretty sure they don't care what you did to bring them victory.

That point is invalid coming from you, previously you were arguing against Synthesis and Control, yet people cheer on those endings. Again as i said before, The galaxy didn't agree to commit Genocide, or control them, or co-exist with them. We agree to kill them in our terms or die trying.

So you actually like Refusal? You like playing the entire trilogy and then picking an ending that makes you lose? Enjoy your super crappy ending then. (I'm not saying any of the endings are all that great, but refusal is definitely the worst in my opinion).

[Vexille]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So you choose refuse and allow everyone to die instead of just the geth and edi? That sounds even worse. Plus the Geth and Edi are a necessary sacrifice to make sure the Reaper threat is gone. Control and Synthesis don't accomplish that.

Yes, I rather all die as a galaxy than to have to do something a starbrat told me and commit genocide to a species that had agreed to help me. "I won't let fear comprimise who i am" 

You wont choose destroy because it will kill all the geth (your allies)... instead you will refuse which will kill all the geth (your allies) and every other advanced race...

did you go to the catalyst school of logic?

[2Shepards]

Well again, here we are. Its been months since release, and almost a week since EC. I swore up and down this boards that after EC I would choose. Nope, can't do it. this cycle will never end, because my Shepard will stand there like a idiot for all eternity if need be. Choosing the **** lesser of 4/3 ******* evils, its not my bag baby.

[Reorte]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

That point is invalid coming from you, previously you were arguing against Synthesis and Control, yet people cheer on those endings. Again as i said before, The galaxy didn't agree to commit Genocide, or control them, or co-exist with them. We agree to kill them in our terms or die trying.

You've made your point and you've got everyone killed by doing so. Nice job breaking it hero. Sometimes there comes a time when you've got to swallow your pride for the sake of peace. There was a good example of that last week, with the queen and Martin McGuiness shaking hands. I bet both of them would've far rather shot the other.

[4stringwizard]

"Genocide" has now become the most abused word on these forums.

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:19 .

[Undead Han]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So destroying the Reapers makes you a genocidal monster, but not condemning every sapient species in the galaxy to extinction? Because that is what you do when you choose the Reject Ending.

Destroy is the only ending where Shepard and the galaxy actually win the Reaper war. Control and Synthesis are stalemate endings.

I'm going to copy and pase my previous post.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not commit genocide or control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

Flawed logic is saying that Shepard is a genocidal monster in Destroy but not Reject, when Reject condemns far more sapient beings to death. And Reject causes actual extinctions of organic species, whereas with Destroy you just lose synthetics who could potentially be rebuilt.

[Rasofe]

@Khajiit
Well, the milky way, as has been demonstrated by all three games, is inhabitated mostly by very stupid people (Shepard even makes a speech about it to Liara in LoTSB, it's a Paragon option) so what they agree on doesn't exactly mean it's the right thing to do.

But I can see what you mean and it's not irrespectable.

Modifié par Rasofe, 01 juillet 2012 - 05:22 .

[saracen16]

Han Shot First wrote...

My Shepard was fairly similar to yours. I chose Destroy because it was the only one that actually killed the Reapers, which has been your mission all along.

Also, the destroy ending is a bit more hopeful in the extended cut. When asking the Star Child for clarification on how the Crucible will affect synthetics, the Star Child notes that the war's survivors could potentially rebuild any technology that is destroyed by it. Considering this is said specifically in response to Shepard's question about how synthetics will be affected, it leaves open the possibility that EDI and the Geth *may* someday be rebuilt.

It also makes sense if you think about it. EDI was destroyed and rebuilt once before. Why shouldn't it be possible once again?

Well, to be fair, EDI was not herself before Shepard destroyed the VI computer, and she was built by combining herself with Reaper-tech. As a result, the new AI has new experiences and new integrations. Rebuilding an EDI is like making a clone of yourself at a different time: it will have different experiences that shape it, and as a result will not be the same EDI that you knew.

[terdferguson123]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

Congrats your a genocidal monster too, you layed down and died and in that regard murdered every organic and synthetic in existence. Brains, you have none.

[Welsh Inferno]

I was getting the opposite notion actually. Has seemed to me that lots of people who go with destroy seem to try and speculate the deaths of EDI & the Geth away, so they can have their uber-happy ending. Keep that in your head, cause that's all it is. Head-canon.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So you choose refuse and allow everyone to die instead of just the geth and edi? That sounds even worse. Plus the Geth and Edi are a necessary sacrifice to make sure the Reaper threat is gone. Control and Synthesis don't accomplish that.

Yes, I rather all die as a galaxy than to have to do something a starbrat told me and commit genocide to a species that had agreed to help me. "I won't let fear comprimise who i am" 

So you sacrifice everyone for nothing? ok glad we cleared that up.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

No, what you did was throw away everyone's lives when you could have killed the Reapers and won. You see the people in the destroy ending cheering as the Reapers die? I'm pretty sure they don't care what you did to bring them victory.

That point is invalid coming from you, previously you were arguing against Synthesis and Control, yet people cheer on those endings. Again as i said before, The galaxy didn't agree to commit Genocide, or control them, or co-exist with them. We agree to kill them in our terms or die trying.

So you actually like Refusal? You like playing the entire trilogy and then picking an ending that makes you lose? Enjoy your super crappy ending then. (I'm not saying any of the endings are all that great, but refusal is definitely the worst in my opinion).

No I played a whole series to destroy the Reapers on my terms, the terms that we as a galaxy agreed to. The galaxy didn't agree to Genocide, to control the reapers, or to co-exist with them.

[Vexille]

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So destroying the Reapers makes you a genocidal monster, but not condemning every sapient species in the galaxy to extinction? Because that is what you do when you choose the Reject Ending.

Destroy is the only ending where Shepard and the galaxy actually win the Reaper war. Control and Synthesis are stalemate endings.

I'm going to copy and pase my previous post.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not commit genocide or control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

Flawed logic is saying that Shepard is a genocidal monster in Destroy but not Reject, when Reject condemns far more sapient beings to death. And Reject causes actual extinctions of organic species, whereas with Destroy you just lose synthetics who could potentially be rebuilt.

EXACTLY, I just dont understand how people are saying its better that everyone die rather then one race dies.

[Dougy Fresh]

I agree OP. The only choice that catalyst tries to dissuade you from choosing is destroy. But then hes like o ya control and synthesis are fine, no bad repercussions, seems a little sketchy the way he did that.

[Kaica]

I can understand Khajiit Jzargo's logic and reasons, even though I always chose and will choose Destroy.

I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, do correct me if I'm wrong.

Khajiit Jzargo refuses to sacrifice anyone. He/she (didn't check, sorry) rather kills everyone than chooses someone(s) to die. I can totally understand that. It is equally fair for all. No guilt.

The reason I (and I guess a lot of others) chose destroy is to do what we were dedicated to do since the first place. We are ready to sacrifice some to gain the goal we already sacrificed so much for: to actually destroy the Reapers. We don't do it for selfish reason, we do it in the name of common good. Even if it means sacrificing some. Sometimes that is what it takes, and it sure ain't easy to make this decision.

There is no correct answer to this, there never is when it comes to moral and ethics. We just have to agree to disagree. For me, refusal is the next best option.

Anyway...

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So destroying the Reapers makes you a genocidal monster, but not condemning every sapient species in the galaxy to extinction? Because that is what you do when you choose the Reject Ending.

Destroy is the only ending where Shepard and the galaxy actually win the Reaper war. Control and Synthesis are stalemate endings.

I'm going to copy and pase my previous post.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not commit genocide or control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

If you truly fear sacrificing allies so much go play ME1 again. When you get to Virmire and have to choose between Ash and Kaidan, don't do anything. Better that you all just die then have the guilt of someone's death to deal with, right?

Your going to compare the death of a squadmate and the genocide of an entire species? 

You're arguing it's not right to sacrifice 1-5 billion(probably around that many geth) to save trillions. At Virmire you sacrifice one to save the other one. I won't let survivor's guilt compromise who I am.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Vexille wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So you choose refuse and allow everyone to die instead of just the geth and edi? That sounds even worse. Plus the Geth and Edi are a necessary sacrifice to make sure the Reaper threat is gone. Control and Synthesis don't accomplish that.

Yes, I rather all die as a galaxy than to have to do something a starbrat told me and commit genocide to a species that had agreed to help me. "I won't let fear comprimise who i am" 

You wont choose destroy because it will kill all the geth (your allies)... instead you will refuse which will kill all the geth (your allies) and every other advanced race...

did you go to the catalyst school of logic?

No, I won't choose destroy because like i said before we didn't agree to commit Genocide. We will die free.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No, it makes you a genocidal monster, whether you felt bad for the Geth/Edi or not, your still killing them, I rather refuse and die as a formed galaxy.

So destroying the Reapers makes you a genocidal monster, but not condemning every sapient species in the galaxy to extinction? Because that is what you do when you choose the Reject Ending.

Destroy is the only ending where Shepard and the galaxy actually win the Reaper war. Control and Synthesis are stalemate endings.

I'm going to copy and pase my previous post.

No, I fulfill what we as a galaxy agreed to do, defeat the reapers or die trying. Not commit genocide or control them, or co-exist with them, We die free knowing that we did everything we could have done to defeat the reapers and never gave in to the Catalyst flawed logic.

Flawed logic is saying that Shepard is a genocidal monster in Destroy but not Reject, when Reject condemns far more sapient beings to death. And Reject causes actual extinctions of organic species, whereas with Destroy you just lose synthetics who could potentially be rebuilt.

If you choose Destroy, you make the desicion to kill the Geth to save others.
If you refuse, you refuse to kill anyone and instead fight united as a galaxy.