933 réponses à ce sujet

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Then trillions of deaths happened that you could've prevented without giving the enemy anything they wanted, all because you're too stubborn to do something hard.

I didn't know that at the time i took my chances and never commited Genocide, I have one Shep and his ending will be Refusal, where fear never compramised him.

[KotorEffect3]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Then trillions of deaths happened that you could've prevented without giving the enemy anything they wanted, all because you're too stubborn to do something hard.

I didn't know that at the time i took my chances and never commited Genocide, I have one Shep and his ending will be Refusal, where fear never compramised him.

The refusal ending is all about fear.  He was afraid to activate the crucible.  He was afraid to make the hard choice.  He was afraid to make the sacrifices necessary to ensure everybody else's survival.  Refusal is the coward's way out.

[SMichelle]

Facemelter91 wrote...

Whats funny about this whole argument is that its all under the assumption that the Geth did die in destroy when we are given no indication after we choose that they did. "Star Bi**h said they would die so it must be true!".

You mean....he'd lie?!  Just because he doesn't want to be destroyed?!  That Bastard!


(hmmm...he did say Shepard would die, and yet my Shepard was breathing.  You might be on to something.  I can't believe he'd lie like that!) 

[Facemelter91]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Posting it again, I'm tired of explaining myself.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS REFUSAL IS GENOCIDE

This is honestly the last time im going to explain it because it doesn't go in your brain. I took my chances, chances meaning that there was a possibility, and tried to defeat them conventionally because I didn't want to commit genocide or choose the Catalyst absurd options. I ended up failing, but it wasn't genocide, the odds were extremely against us, but they weren't completely against us, so that means we failed, not that I commited genocide. You willingly destroyed a whole Species, you commited genocide, i didn't do it willingly because their was even a small chance to live, you knew the geth were going to die no matter what, you commited genocide, accept it, and deal with it, last time im explaining it.

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Ok, lets take this to World War II. Many of Hitlers "higher ups" were put on trial for war crimes against humanity, essentailly attempted genocide against the Jews. These higher up never shot a single bullet but did nothing to stop it despite know full well it was happening. Some of them had nothing against the Jews. It was the Jews and not them so they didnt care. But the fact that they should have and could have done something dictates that they are at fault.

Shepard knew full well that if he didnt do anything the cycle would continue, thus the extermination of advanced civilizations in the galaxy. This is no different than if you had a scope trained on Hitlers head  and choose not to shoot because you would die or your buddy down the street might be found and killed because of the ensuing search.

[IscrewTali]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS REFUSAL IS GENOCIDE

This is honestly the last time im going to explain it because it doesn't go in your brain. I took my chances, chances meaning that there was a possibility, and tried to defeat them conventionally because I didn't want to commit genocide or choose the Catalyst absurd options. I ended up failing, but it wasn't genocide, the odds were extremely against us, but they weren't completely against us, so that means we failed, not that I commited genocide. You willingly destroyed a whole Species, you commited genocide, i didn't do it willingly because their was even a small chance to live, you knew the geth were going to die no matter what, you commited genocide, accept it, and deal with it, last time im explaining it.

The only proffessional opinion about chances mentioned in the game was from Hackett, regarding the Battle of Earth. And that opinion included the use of the Crucible. No significant person, with tactical knowledge and experience said that the Reaper could be defeated conventionally. Even Javik doesnt believe in that after seeing the armies of the galaxy, and he has first hand experience, far more than Shepard does. Yet somehow your Shepard truly believed there was a chance? Not even Conrad Verner would think you were sane.

[mauro2222]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Miezul_Carpatin wrote...

After reading the arguments about destroy and refusal my conclusion is that both endings are sheet.

*shrugs* And that's why I like Control the best. I'm ****ing Space-Batman. Only immortal and with an army of pet Reapers.

Funny, that's not how Control works. It makes me doubt that you understood the original endings.

Funny, that's exactly how Renegade Control works. It makes me doubt that you understand anything other than PARAGON IS TEH BEST.

Haha wtf? Paragon? Renegade? what the hell are you talking about? Control kills Shepard, you're not immortal.

[Miezul_Carpatin]

In my country the criminal code classifies guilt when commiting a crime in two categories :
1) intention
2) fault (I do not know the exact term in english) = culpa in latin like when hitting someone with a car by accident

Intention is also classfied in two subcategories
1) direct intention = the criminal forsees a certain result and pursues it
2) indirect intention = the criminal forsees a certain result and even though he does not pursue it, he accepts it and it's consequences

[Khajiit Jzargo]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Then trillions of deaths happened that you could've prevented without giving the enemy anything they wanted, all because you're too stubborn to do something hard.

I didn't know that at the time i took my chances and never commited Genocide, I have one Shep and his ending will be Refusal, where fear never compramised him.

The refusal ending is all about fear.  He was afraid to activate the crucible.  He was afraid to make the hard choice.  He was afraid to make the sacrifices necessary to ensure everybody else's survival.  Refusal is the coward's way out.

How is me making a last stand against the reapers mean im afraid, As my Shep said " I fight for freedom, mine and everyone, I fight for the right to choose our own path, and If I die, I'll die knowing i did everything i could to stop you, and ill die free" How is he afraid, Destroy is the easy way out, I won't loss the soul of our species.

[Lord Goose]

I have one Shep and his ending will
be Refusal, where fear never compramised him.

Choose Control, when?
Reapers still would be in the same position, just with different leader.
Of course, where is chance, that something bad may happen, but, when again, you should not let fear control your actions.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Miezul_Carpatin wrote...

In my country the criminal code classifies guilt when commiting a crime in two categories :
1) intention
2) fault (I do not know the exact term in english) = culpa in latin like when hitting someone with a car by accident

Intention is also classfied in two subcategories
1) direct intention = the criminal forsees a certain result and pursues it
2) indirect intention = the criminal forsees a certain result and even though he does not pursue it, he accepts it and it's consequences

I never did.
Also, thats saying for example that if Japan had never surrended and they would have been wiped out, they commited genocide on their selves, no its not like that.

[IscrewTali]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Then trillions of deaths happened that you could've prevented without giving the enemy anything they wanted, all because you're too stubborn to do something hard.

I didn't know that at the time i took my chances and never commited Genocide, I have one Shep and his ending will be Refusal, where fear never compramised him.

The refusal ending is all about fear.  He was afraid to activate the crucible.  He was afraid to make the hard choice.  He was afraid to make the sacrifices necessary to ensure everybody else's survival.  Refusal is the coward's way out.

How is me making a last stand against the reapers mean im afraid, As my Shep said " I fight for freedom, mine and everyone, I fight for the right to choose our own path, and If I die, I'll die knowing i did everything i could to stop you, and ill die free" How is he afraid, Destroy is the easy way out, I won't loss the soul of our species.

You're grasping at straws, in hope that you would not have to sacrifice your life. In the face of death, u cower. A pathetic attempt at prolonging your own life, for a chance that doesnt exist.

[mauro2222]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

How is me making a last stand against the reapers mean im afraid, As my Shep said " I fight for freedom, mine and everyone, I fight for the right to choose our own path, and If I die, I'll die knowing i did everything i could to stop you, and ill die free" How is he afraid, Destroy is the easy way out, I won't loss the soul of our species.

Middle finger incoming!

"You don't choose my artistics endings, then, I turn off your killer switch"

And then we have Shepard doing nothing...
And the next cycle using the Crucible... **** me!

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Facemelter91 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Posting it again, I'm tired of explaining myself.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS REFUSAL IS GENOCIDE

This is honestly the last time im going to explain it because it doesn't go in your brain. I took my chances, chances meaning that there was a possibility, and tried to defeat them conventionally because I didn't want to commit genocide or choose the Catalyst absurd options. I ended up failing, but it wasn't genocide, the odds were extremely against us, but they weren't completely against us, so that means we failed, not that I commited genocide. You willingly destroyed a whole Species, you commited genocide, i didn't do it willingly because their was even a small chance to live, you knew the geth were going to die no matter what, you commited genocide, accept it, and deal with it, last time im explaining it.

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Ok, lets take this to World War II. Many of Hitlers "higher ups" were put on trial for war crimes against humanity, essentailly attempted genocide against the Jews. These higher up never shot a single bullet but did nothing to stop it despite know full well it was happening. Some of them had nothing against the Jews. It was the Jews and not them so they didnt care. But the fact that they should have and could have done something dictates that they are at fault.

Shepard knew full well that if he didnt do anything the cycle would continue, thus the extermination of advanced civilizations in the galaxy. This is no different than if you had a scope trained on Hitlers head  and choose not to shoot because you would die or your buddy down the street might be found and killed because of the ensuing search.

Nope, I didn't know full well.

[babachewie]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Posting it again, I'm tired of explaining myself.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS REFUSAL IS GENOCIDE

This is honestly the last time im going to explain it because it doesn't go in your brain. I took my chances, chances meaning that there was a possibility, and tried to defeat them conventionally because I didn't want to commit genocide or choose the Catalyst absurd options. I ended up failing, but it wasn't genocide, the odds were extremely against us, but they weren't completely against us, so that means we failed, not that I commited genocide. You willingly destroyed a whole Species, you commited genocide, i didn't do it willingly because their was even a small chance to live, you knew the geth were going to die no matter what, you commited genocide, accept it, and deal with it, last time im explaining it.

Well to me it seems like you can't make the tough decisions so you submit to defeat. Which is a cowards way. You'd be stripped of your command dishonorable discharged not only for that but for disobeying a direct order from your commanding officer....if you and everyoen else werent dead. People busted thier asses and sacrificed many lives to get that thing built and put into position and just to get there and decide not to you use it is inexcusable. Not only that the options werent even the Catalyst's. The Catalysts didnt build nor come up with the plans for the Crucible. The options were from the many cycles of millions of species who built and perfected it over the countless milennia. The Cataylsts didnt even know what it did until it was changed when it interfaced with it after it attached with the Citadel. Not only did you commit mass extinction and doom the galaxy for 50,000. You did it for the wrong reason you didnt even fully even understand. So the next cycle had to pick up the slack. good job.

[Reorte]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
How is me making a last stand against the reapers mean im afraid, As my Shep said " I fight for freedom, mine and everyone, I fight for the right to choose our own path, and If I die, I'll die knowing i did everything i could to stop you, and ill die free" How is he afraid, Destroy is the easy way out, I won't loss the soul of our species.

Destroy makes a stand against the Reapers. It kills them. The only thing to consider is which choice has the least bad consequences and it certainly isn't letting the Reapers kill everyone. You did not do everything you could to stop them.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

IscrewTali wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Then trillions of deaths happened that you could've prevented without giving the enemy anything they wanted, all because you're too stubborn to do something hard.

I didn't know that at the time i took my chances and never commited Genocide, I have one Shep and his ending will be Refusal, where fear never compramised him.

The refusal ending is all about fear.  He was afraid to activate the crucible.  He was afraid to make the hard choice.  He was afraid to make the sacrifices necessary to ensure everybody else's survival.  Refusal is the coward's way out.

How is me making a last stand against the reapers mean im afraid, As my Shep said " I fight for freedom, mine and everyone, I fight for the right to choose our own path, and If I die, I'll die knowing i did everything i could to stop you, and ill die free" How is he afraid, Destroy is the easy way out, I won't loss the soul of our species.

You're grasping at straws, in hope that you would not have to sacrifice your life. In the face of death, u cower. A pathetic attempt at prolonging your own life, for a chance that doesnt exist.

Destroy is the only ending that allows you to live, if anything that applies to you not me.

[mauro2222]

IscrewTali wrote...

You're grasping at straws, in hope that you would not have to sacrifice your life. In the face of death, u cower. A pathetic attempt at prolonging your own life, for a chance that doesnt exist.

The same could be said about destroy, the catalyst doesn't say "You will die" in that one.

And that's your interpretation of the refusal ending, which you can't apply to the dude you're quoting since he already told you why he choose it.

[Reorte]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Nope, I didn't know full well.

But you did say somewhere back that you'd make the same decision again, this time knowing the consequences.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

babachewie wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Posting it again, I'm tired of explaining myself.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS REFUSAL IS GENOCIDE

This is honestly the last time im going to explain it because it doesn't go in your brain. I took my chances, chances meaning that there was a possibility, and tried to defeat them conventionally because I didn't want to commit genocide or choose the Catalyst absurd options. I ended up failing, but it wasn't genocide, the odds were extremely against us, but they weren't completely against us, so that means we failed, not that I commited genocide. You willingly destroyed a whole Species, you commited genocide, i didn't do it willingly because their was even a small chance to live, you knew the geth were going to die no matter what, you commited genocide, accept it, and deal with it, last time im explaining it.

Well to me it seems like you can't make the tough decisions so you submit to defeat. Which is a cowards way. You'd be stripped of your command dishonorable discharged not only for that but for disobeying a direct order from your commanding officer....if you and everyoen else werent dead. People busted thier asses and sacrificed many lives to get that thing built and put into position and just to get there and decide not to you use it is inexcusable. Not only that the options werent even the Catalyst's. The Catalysts didnt build nor come up with the plans for the Crucible. The options were from the many cycles of millions of species who built and perfected it over the countless milennia. The Cataylsts didnt even know what it did until it was changed when it interfaced with it after it attached with the Citadel. Not only did you commit mass extinction and doom the galaxy for 50,000. You did it for the wrong reason you didnt even fully even understand. So the next cycle had to pick up the slack. good job.

No, As I wrote before, when we build the crucible we believed that it would destroy reapers, when i learned it would destroy the Geth, the variables changed, as a galaxy we agreed to kill the reapers but not to commit genocide to one of the species, or control, or co-exist with them. So I'm doing the right thing.

[Galbrant]

I don't think those who went with destroyed are not really genocidal... I personally always went with it when the option refuse wasn't available. But consider this:

"One of my professors at medical school used to say that the brain has a spark of life that can't be replicated. If we begin to replace parts of Bareil's brain with artificial implants, that spark may be lost. ~ Julian Bashir, DS9"

I believe the same can be said the the Geth and EDI. Just can they can be rebuild it won't be the Same Geth or EDI we all know and love for all we can know bringing them back could mean they become Skynet.

[Reorte]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
No, As I wrote before, when we build the crucible we believed that it would destroy reapers, when i learned it would destroy the Geth, the variables changed, as a galaxy we agreed to kill the reapers but not to commit genocide to one of the species, or control, or co-exist with them. So I'm doing the right thing.

We hoped that it might destroy the Reapers but we didn't know what it would do.

[Father_Jerusalem]

mauro2222 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Miezul_Carpatin wrote...

After reading the arguments about destroy and refusal my conclusion is that both endings are sheet.

*shrugs* And that's why I like Control the best. I'm ****ing Space-Batman. Only immortal and with an army of pet Reapers.

Funny, that's not how Control works. It makes me doubt that you understood the original endings.

Funny, that's exactly how Renegade Control works. It makes me doubt that you understand anything other than PARAGON IS TEH BEST.

Haha wtf? Paragon? Renegade? what the hell are you talking about? Control kills Shepard, you're not immortal.

Oh. You haven't played the EC yet. Okay, feel free to come back when you know what you're talking about.

[IscrewTali]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Fine, and now that you know it didn't work you'll admit that you made the wrong choice and you'll do something different next time?

No, because I refuse to commit willingful genocide.

Then trillions of deaths happened that you could've prevented without giving the enemy anything they wanted, all because you're too stubborn to do something hard.

I didn't know that at the time i took my chances and never commited Genocide, I have one Shep and his ending will be Refusal, where fear never compramised him.

The refusal ending is all about fear.  He was afraid to activate the crucible.  He was afraid to make the hard choice.  He was afraid to make the sacrifices necessary to ensure everybody else's survival.  Refusal is the coward's way out.

How is me making a last stand against the reapers mean im afraid, As my Shep said " I fight for freedom, mine and everyone, I fight for the right to choose our own path, and If I die, I'll die knowing i did everything i could to stop you, and ill die free" How is he afraid, Destroy is the easy way out, I won't loss the soul of our species.

You're grasping at straws, in hope that you would not have to sacrifice your life. In the face of death, u cower. A pathetic attempt at prolonging your own life, for a chance that doesnt exist.

Destroy is the only ending that allows you to live, if anything that applies to you not me.

When you decide to shoot the tube, you know stuff will blow up, Citadel included, and you with it.
The SMALL breadth at the end of Good Destroy is nothing but a tease for the fans. If going by "what i knew at the time" i knew i would die along with the starchild by blowing it up.

[Lord Goose]

as a galaxy
we agreed to kill the reapers but not to commit genocide to
one of the species, or control, or co-exist with them. So I'm
doing the right thing.

So, you're saying, that because all three solutions are imperfect, we should reject them in favor of, eh, nothing?
I'm sorry, but that is Perfect Solution fallacy.

Besides, no one even knew how Crucible will work. It was essentially galaxy-wide gasping at straw.