933 réponses à ce sujet

[SMichelle]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

You are not submitting.  You are doing NOTHING.  And by doing nothing you have doomed the cycle to destruction.  You knew conventional warfare would fail.  You knew this because ALL previous cycles failed.  ALL.  Trillions and trillons of lives over EONS.  Fought and failed.

The Catalyst tells you that you are the FIRST to have gotten so far.  The first to complete the Crucible.  To NOT use it horrible.

Thankfully, the next cycle uses it and the Repear threat is ended.

Yup, I die free. Also, the next cycle doesn't choose destroy but chooses synthesis.

Good for you.  Too bad you doomed everyone else to Reaper goo.  But hey, you've got your principles right?  And besides, maybe being a Reaper isn't so bad.

[Rip504]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Again thats metagaming, I took my chance and failed, i failed, so be it, at least i didn't take the easy way out and commit genocide. I have a question for you, do you believe in this quote "is submission not preferable to extinction"

At the time you made your choice did you think it more likely that fewer people would die by attacking the Reapers or by making use of Destroy? Which was more likely to result in fewer friendly casualties?

I believed more people would have died if we attacked the reaper, but it was going to be united as a galaxy not just sacrificing one species to win.

We are already united as a galaxy. You willing chose to sacrifces more lives,then destroy would sacrifice. You put the lives of the Geth above everything else in the galaxy. You also went against a united galaxy's choice to build and use the crucible.  Billions of Small children being harvested to preserve the Geth. Great choice.

[mauro2222]

Reorte wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The quarians don't have the knowledge nor ability to bring back the Geth as they were before Destroy.

You can create a new "Geth", but they aren't going to be the same. They lack the experience, decisions, opinions, knowledge, conclusions, actions, feelings, the original Geth have.

And the term Toaster is pretty racist. You're a monkey with a huge ego and destructive desire, but you're called human.

Pretty much anything about the geth from the ending onwards is speculation (and speculation that I don't mind too much this time). Since we've no idea exactly how they've been killed we don't know if their memories are at all intact. Quite possibly not; back in ME1 it's said to be quite difficult to salvage memory from a dead geth unit but it's not certain.

My own headcanon is that they can bring them back, only reason I choose Destroy, I can't stand the feeling of betraying EDI and Legion... but the problem is that is not real, it's my headcanon.

[agu123]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Posting it again, I'm tired of explaining myself.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS REFUSAL IS GENOCIDE

This is honestly the last time im going to explain it because it doesn't go in your brain. I took my chances, chances meaning that there was a possibility, and tried to defeat them conventionally because I didn't want to commit genocide or choose the Catalyst absurd options. I ended up failing, but it wasn't genocide, the odds were extremely against us, but they weren't completely against us, so that means we failed, not that I commited genocide. You willingly destroyed a whole Species, you commited genocide, i didn't do it willingly because their was even a small chance to live, you knew the geth were going to die no matter what, you commited genocide, accept it, and deal with it, last time im explaining it.

Yeah, right now I wonder: how did your Shepard get to the rank of Commander? Only an incompetent and naive person would think that we still have a chance of conventional victory after hearing that Hammer (which includes the best of the Turians, Asari and Krogan) was almost wiped out, and seeing Sword being slaughtered by the Reapers all around him in the decision room.

Without counting the dozens of Reapers destroying stuff in the other Clusters. Your Shepard must be very optimistic or incredibly stupid.

But in the end this doesn't matter, I bet he had fun watching the whole fleet getting annihilated by the Reaper forces. At least he remained loyal to his ideals.

Wanna know the funny thing? After the Reapers wiped out every civilization, the next cycle only won because Liara decided to make a time capsule. Turns out she was the hero of the Mass Effect series all along. Shepard was merely an incompetent human commander.

I won't let fear compramise who i am 
In all seriousness, I rather take a chance of winning than just commiting genocide to be sure, thats my opinion.

Chance of winning? Excuse me?

Shepard is bleeding to death while everyone outside is getting slaughtered by Harbinger & Co.

Anderson was the only person who got past Harbinger's laser. And he's dead.

We sacrificed most of our ground troops just to make sure we would get to the beam; we see ships blowing up all around the Catalyst chamber desperately waiting for Shepard to activate the Crucible, and you still believe we stand a chance?

It's my opinion, Like i said before even the smallest chance is better than commiting genocide, go and commit your war crimes, and step down to their level thats your decision, you prefer to submit  rather than die fighting, your choice...not mine.

Submit? To who?

The Crucible was designed by organics from the past cycles to wipe out the Reapers. Its schematics were preserved by organics. The Destroy option is clearly a big "**** off" to the Catalyst and the Reapers. The Control option is not part of the Catalyst's plan, but it involves Shepard assuming control of his abominations. The Synthesis option goes hand in hand with the Catalyst's logic, but again, he is only explaining what the Crucible does.

He is the one who submits to his opponent.

Again, I don't understand how your Shepard got past the rank of Corporal, let alone join the N7 program.

[vicegt]

yes to what the OP said and the fact that not two seconds ago my shep was telling TIM that we are not ready for such power and knowledge because we had not earned it. destroy makes us work and learn it and at the right speed.

[babachewie]

mauro2222 wrote...

babachewie wrote...
Its stupid you chose a bunch of self preservating toasters over the entire galaxy. The thing is Geth can be wiped out but the quarians knowledge on how to rebuild them doesnt. I seriously hope you're never are in a position to make important decisions that effect peoples lives no bigger than getttng an order right at a dairy queen. Refuse is the dumbest choice in Mass Effect. It literally makes no sense unless you really believed you were indoctrinated, which by the result you werent. 

The quarians don't have the knowledge nor ability to bring back the Geth as they were before Destroy.

You can create a new "Geth", but they aren't going to be the same. They lack the experience, decisions, opinions, knowledge, conclusions, actions, feelings, the original Geth have.

And the term Toaster is pretty racist. You're a monkey with a huge ego and destructive desire, but you're called human.

Yes I'm racist towards a fake robot species. My Apologies to Jesse Jackson's microwave. Yeah they arent gonna have their reaper tech upgrade but oh well. The geth before the upgrade were pretty much the same besides Legion who was altered to interact with orgaincs better. 

Modifié par babachewie, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:52 .

[Taboo]

mauro2222 wrote...


My own headcanon is that they can bring them back, only reason I choose Destroy, I can't stand the feeling of betraying EDI and Legion... but the problem is that is not real, it's my headcanon.

The Catalyst says they can be repaired, in dialouge. You aren't wrong because you have no information to the contrary. This isn't far fetched.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Rip504 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Again thats metagaming, I took my chance and failed, i failed, so be it, at least i didn't take the easy way out and commit genocide. I have a question for you, do you believe in this quote "is submission not preferable to extinction"

At the time you made your choice did you think it more likely that fewer people would die by attacking the Reapers or by making use of Destroy? Which was more likely to result in fewer friendly casualties?

I believed more people would have died if we attacked the reaper, but it was going to be united as a galaxy not just sacrificing one species to win.

We are already united as a galaxy. You willing chose to sacrifces more lives,then destroy would sacrifice. You put the lives of the Geth above everything else in the galaxy. You also went against a united galaxy's choice to build and use the crucible.  Billions of Small children being harvested to preserve the Geth. Great choice.

I didn't know that at the time, metagaming.

[Rip504]

Destroy Kills the Reapers,and wins the war. Reject does not. This is not metagaming. It is presented at the moment you make the choice. And I did Die free,unless I am the one breathing in the breath scene. Then it is speculation.

Edit: Also concering metagaming. Derp it is part of gaming. Knowledge is power. The refusal of knowledge in a matter of which we hold the knowledge,is your choice. Do not try and restrict the topic into one area for your benefit. As we knew at the moment of choice,so it is not metagaming in anyway shape or form.

Modifié par Rip504, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:52 .

[HellbirdIV]

EDI told me that she would defend her right to choose her destiny "To the death". I think she would prefer Destroy.

The Geth similarily said they would give their all to fight the Reapers. I would sacrifice any of the major races if it meant destroying the Reapers forever, frankly - even the asari, as much as I love them, or the turians, or the quarians (Ooops, too late), or humans... Especially humans, because f*ck those guys.

[babachewie]

SMichelle wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

You are not submitting.  You are doing NOTHING.  And by doing nothing you have doomed the cycle to destruction.  You knew conventional warfare would fail.  You knew this because ALL previous cycles failed.  ALL.  Trillions and trillons of lives over EONS.  Fought and failed.

The Catalyst tells you that you are the FIRST to have gotten so far.  The first to complete the Crucible.  To NOT use it horrible.

Thankfully, the next cycle uses it and the Repear threat is ended.

Yup, I die free. Also, the next cycle doesn't choose destroy but chooses synthesis.

Good for you.  Too bad you doomed everyone else to Reaper goo.  But hey, you've got your principles right?  And besides, maybe being a Reaper isn't so bad.

haha! I know right. That new Reaper made out of Shepard and all his dead friends and allies who were counting on him sure are lucky they had such a great leader with high morals and principles. 

[Reorte]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

We are already united as a galaxy. You willing chose to sacrifces more lives,then destroy would sacrifice. You put the lives of the Geth above everything else in the galaxy. You also went against a united galaxy's choice to build and use the crucible.  Billions of Small children being harvested to preserve the Geth. Great choice.

I didn't know that at the time, metagaming.

You thought it the more likely outcome.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Rip504 wrote...

Destroy Kills the Reapers,and wins the war. Reject does not. This is not metagaming. It is presented at the moment you make the choice. And I did Die free,unless I am the one breathing in the breath scene. Then it is speculation.

And If i die. Reject never tells you will lose, you find our later on. Unless you metagame, you don't know for sure you will die in refusal, is it likely, yes, is it for sure no.

[IscrewTali]

It is said that a dog is a man's best friend. Some say they have souls and they remember things from far back. They are loved, they share all the commodities a human does. But when it comes down to the moment when you have to put it down, will you do it? A great example of this is the movie I Am Legend, where he has to put his dog down, the one he has shared all those years with, he does it for survival. There is no room for moral questions or chance. The same applies to the Geth. These are my final thoughts on the subject.

Bottom line is: Canon is what you believe. Surely BW will come up with some random Canon where Shepard is teleported to 1987 where he must use the Delorean to travel to 2012 where he bombs the ME threads with his thoughts on Geth genocide.

[Reorte]

babachewie wrote...
 haha! I know right. That new Reaper made out of Shepard and all his dead friends and allies who were counting on him sure are lucky they had such a great leader with high morals and principles. 

Don't forget that it looks like the next cycle kills that Reaper anyway.

[mauro2222]

babachewie wrote...

Yes I'm racist towards a fake robot species. My Apologies to Jesse Jackson's microwave. Yeah they arent gonna have their reaper tech upgrade but oh well. They geth before the upgrade were pretty much the same besides Legion who was altered to interact with orgaincs better. 

Being fictional or not is still racism and worse, speciesist. You're a machine too, don't forget that. It doesn't matter if you think you're better or you think you are on a higher level of life because you're made of a different material.

Your body is also 70% inorganic, pushing this line of organic and synthetic closer.

Modifié par mauro2222, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:54 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Guys it was good arguing with you, some of you had decent points some didn't, anyway after 26 pages of holding my ground against countless people, i have to go, this was.....amusing.

[SMichelle]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Destroy Kills the Reapers,and wins the war. Reject does not. This is not metagaming. It is presented at the moment you make the choice. And I did Die free,unless I am the one breathing in the breath scene. Then it is speculation.

And If i die. Reject never tells you will lose, you find our later on. Unless you metagame, you don't know for sure you will die in refusal, is it likely, yes, is it for sure no.

Of course reject tells you that you will lose.  All previous cycles tried conventional warfare.  Trillions and trillions of lives over many eons tried and failed.  Nothing makes you special.  Nothing EXCEPT the Crucible.  The Catalyst in fact tells you this.  You are the first out of ALL previous cycles to have completed the Crucible.  The FIRST.  To make NO choice is to DOOM everyone.

[Rip504]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Destroy Kills the Reapers,and wins the war. Reject does not. This is not metagaming. It is presented at the moment you make the choice. And I did Die free,unless I am the one breathing in the breath scene. Then it is speculation.

And If i die. Reject never tells you will lose, you find our later on. Unless you metagame, you don't know for sure you will die in refusal, is it likely, yes, is it for sure no.

"The cycle will continue" "You will die knowing you failed"

What do you think this means?

[mauro2222]

Taboo-XX wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...


My own headcanon is that they can bring them back, only reason I choose Destroy, I can't stand the feeling of betraying EDI and Legion... but the problem is that is not real, it's my headcanon.

The Catalyst says they can be repaired, in dialouge. You aren't wrong because you have no information to the contrary. This isn't far fetched.

And you have no information about the contrary either. The Catalyst says "Technology you rely will be affected, but those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage. There will still be loses". That's just electronics. We also have Bioware forcing this destruction to sugarcoat Synthesis, which is the good ending for them. Otherwise, Destroy is the good one.

Modifié par mauro2222, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:05 .

[Forbry]

People still trying to get rid of that guilt in this topic

[AngryFrozenWater]

AxStapleton wrote...

Just to dispel the common notion that ALL destroyers hate or don't care about the Geth or EDI, My Shep did. Very much so. He brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians. He encouraged Joker to try a relationship with EDI. He was a true Paragon. He was just incredibly weary of the two other options. My Shep was just talking to the Illusive Man about how high the risks of Control were, "Are you willing to bet Humanity's existence on it?" We've seen what one entity in control of that level of power has done. My Shepard, for all the universe's imperfections, loved diversity. Forcing that level of change, taking away that diversity (even if it was only on the level of Organics and Synthetics) was abhorrent to him, images of the Reapers and the Husks of all the species come to mind. In his mind, it was the Catalyst's solution. The Reaper's solution. This left him with Destroy. He could erase the Reapers from existence, the Catalyst would be no more. Life would be free. Diversity eventually preserved. But at a terrible cost. The Geth and EDI. But he had to take that decision. He would have taken it if it cost any one of the other races instead of the Synthetics, including Humanity. He considered them just as alive. But it didn't make him feel  any better. However, he didn't buy the crap that it was inevitable for  Synthetics to wipe out all other life. His past experiences taught him  this. Synthetics could be rebuilt. But he knew there would be no  bringing EDI or the Geth back. He hopes that they'll be remembered. That when the time comes for new Synthetic intelligences to be built, that  the lessons learned in this war would not be forgotten. That the same  mistakes wouldn't be repeated. There might not be much left. But there is hope.

Not all destroyers are heartless murderers.
 
P.S.Nor am I saying that people who chose anything else are any worse than me. They're all valid options with a high risk/cost. This is purely my reasoning behind me choosing the Destroy option. Its just a case of what cost you are willing to take to do what you percieve must be done.

You make a lot sense. I agree with most of it. My variation in short: The reapers aren't the solution, they are the problem.

[Taboo]

mauro2222 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...


My own headcanon is that they can bring them back, only reason I choose Destroy, I can't stand the feeling of betraying EDI and Legion... but the problem is that is not real, it's my headcanon.

The Catalyst says they can be repaired, in dialouge. You aren't wrong because you have no information to the contrary. This isn't far fetched.

And you have no information about the contrary either. The Catalyst says "Technology you rely will be affected, but those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage. There will still be loses". That's just electronics. We also have Bioware forcing this destruction to sugarcoat Synthesis, which is the good ending for them. Otherwise, Destroy is the good one.

The point of the endings was to allow you to pick what you want. If you want them repaired, they can be. This is why Bioware didn't show them blowing up.

[babachewie]

mauro2222 wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Yes I'm racist towards a fake robot species. My Apologies to Jesse Jackson's microwave. Yeah they arent gonna have their reaper tech upgrade but oh well. They geth before the upgrade were pretty much the same besides Legion who was altered to interact with orgaincs better. 

Being fictional or not is still racism and worse, speciesist. You're a machine too, don't forget that. It doesn't matter if you think you're better or you think you are on a higher level of life because you're made of a different material.

Your body is also 70% inorganic, pushing this line of organic and synthetic closer.

Jesus. i'm not argue over calling something not real a bad name. Whether it be Geth or Cylon or whatever. 

[Father_Jerusalem]

mauro2222 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Oh. You haven't played the EC yet. Okay, feel free to come back when you know what you're talking about.

"Through his death I was born"

You're terrible at this.

Even the Catalyst tells you this, and even explains to Shep how he can control them if he's dead

Oh. You still haven't played the EC yet. Okay. Feel free to come back when you know what you're talking about.