933 réponses à ce sujet

[Reorte]

alienatedflea wrote...

agu123 wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Destroy actually forces all organics to become just as heartless and cold as the reapers...something that to most would make them shutter

You can clearly see the Organics turning all Synthetics into Organic lifeforms or indoctrinating them in the destroy ending.

i dont know what the **** you are talking about...

I think that he was being sarcastic.

[Father_Jerusalem]

alienatedflea wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I agree that Refusal is god awful morally speaking, and that ending the war is praiseworthy... I just don't know that I would praise Destroy as much as I would Control. Synthesis, to me, is the worst of the "Win" options, but Destroy isn't THAT much better.

well according to taboo...nothing in war is moral...so war is hell...right?  Destroy is not better because you become just as cold hearted and uncaring as the reapers...just the fact that we, organics, can rationalize it away so we sleep better at night...machines see in facts...not emotions

War ISN'T moral. You can fight for moral reasons. You can go to war for moral reasons, but war itself is never moral. It's all about killing as many of the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible while minimizing casualties to your forces. And, unfortunately, to accomplish that goal many MANY immoral actions are required.

[mauro2222]

You really need to separate the term machine from synthetic life form. You're also a machine.

And he's right, nothing in war is moral because war itself is immoral.

[agu123]

alienatedflea wrote...

agu123 wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Destroy actually forces all organics to become just as heartless and cold as the reapers...something that to most would make them shutter

You can clearly see the Organics turning all Synthetics into Organic lifeforms or indoctrinating them in the destroy ending.

i dont know what the **** you are talking about...

You just said that organics are forced to become as heartless as the Reapers. Which is impossible in my opinion. Hence the sarcasm.

Do you understand now?

[mauro2222]

Taboo-XX wrote...

To Destroy the enemy, I have to become the enemy.

[alienatedflea]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Which is entirely my point. If you'd been paying attention to all the literary references I've been throwing out you have gotten this by now.

To Destroy the enemy, I have to become the enemy.

dude I am an accounting major...I dont know alot of literature....just saying...

[Taboo]

alienatedflea wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Nothing is "moral" in war. It is not praiseworthy. The act was monstrous.

But, if I might play Devil's Advocate for a moment.

What if we had to invade Japan on the ground?

How many more lives would have been lost?

too many...on both sides and even more on the Japanese side since the civilians believed in Bushido....Death before dishonor.

I've seen a childrens playground in Hiroshima personally. Twisted and burned by the bomb. It remains untouched to this day.

Please don't ever think I'm trying to justify what I'm doing.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:55 .

[Reorte]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

War ISN'T moral. You can fight for moral reasons. You can go to war for moral reasons, but war itself is never moral. It's all about killing as many of the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible while minimizing casualties to your forces. And, unfortunately, to accomplish that goal many MANY immoral actions are required.

Probably pointless nitpick. I think it was in Hornblower, something like "But we're here to kill them." "No, we're here to defeat them."

[Father_Jerusalem]

Reorte wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

War ISN'T moral. You can fight for moral reasons. You can go to war for moral reasons, but war itself is never moral. It's all about killing as many of the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible while minimizing casualties to your forces. And, unfortunately, to accomplish that goal many MANY immoral actions are required.

Probably pointless nitpick. I think it was in Hornblower, something like "But we're here to kill them." "No, we're here to defeat them."

And if you can defeat them without killing them, great, but...

[Taboo]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

War ISN'T moral. You can fight for moral reasons. You can go to war for moral reasons, but war itself is never moral. It's all about killing as many of the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible while minimizing casualties to your forces. And, unfortunately, to accomplish that goal many MANY immoral actions are required.

Probably pointless nitpick. I think it was in Hornblower, something like "But we're here to kill them." "No, we're here to defeat them."

And if you can defeat them without killing them, great, but...

At the cost of their freedom?

Decisions...

[alienatedflea]

agu123 wrote...

You just said that organics are forced to become as heartless as the Reapers. Which is impossible in my opinion. Hence the sarcasm.

Do you understand now?

youre joking right? >.< read Taboo's comment...to destroy the enemy, I have to become the enemy...or something like that...

as shepard said in Mass Effect one when he tries to get the body of a windowers killed at Eden Prime...he said something to the effect that we can't lose our humanity in the process...destroy and synthesis (in a way...since I am pro-synthesis) we lose our humanity...the cost is too greater

[SMichelle]

mauro2222 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

To Destroy the enemy, I have to become the enemy.

To do that you'd have to take a few trillion more lives over eons.  Oh, and make your enemy into goo and wipe out the next tillion life forms.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

alienatedflea wrote...

agu123 wrote...

You just said that organics are forced to become as heartless as the Reapers. Which is impossible in my opinion. Hence the sarcasm.

Do you understand now?

youre joking right? >.< read Taboo's comment...to destroy the enemy, I have to become the enemy...or something like that...

as shepard said in Mass Effect one when he tries to get the body of a windowers killed at Eden Prime...he said something to the effect that we can't lose our humanity in the process...destroy and synthesis (in a way...since I am pro-synthesis) we lose our humanity...the cost is too greater

Thats why I don't choose destroy, i know war is harsh, but this is losing your humanity.

[Taboo]

You already lose your humanity, regardless of what you choose. Literally, in Synthesis, Physically in Control, or Mentally in Destroy.

[carrmatt91]

this thread has given me the worst headache ever...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Thats why I don't choose destroy, i know war is harsh, but this is losing your humanity.

 

in refuse ALL of humanity LITTERALLY loses their humanity just as the asari lose their asari-ness and the turians etc. mainly because THEY ARE ALL DEAD/WORSE.

and i don't care that your saying everyone who chose destroy did it just because the geth die and they wanted to commit genocide , its not like i looked at control and synthesis and thought to myself, "id never choose them because they DON'T kill the geth" if i could choose for the geth and EDI to live in destroy you can bet your a** i would, but thats the cost of war im afraid, the geth dying in destroy is the lessar of the two evils aka, either the geth die or everyone in this current cycle dies. 

you're just going to say "but i died free!" like you have for everyone else but im gonna say, err... no you were likely harvested along with every other race you knew and loved (apart from geth who were probably killed anyway), enjoy life as a reaper for the next 50K years until someone steps up to the plate and makes the exact same decision you should have made in the first place.

whose to say the people in the next cycle didn't sacrifice even more synthetics to kill the reapers?

Modifié par carrmatt91, 02 juillet 2012 - 12:11 .

[alienatedflea]

SMichelle wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

To Destroy the enemy, I have to become the enemy.

To do that you'd have to take a few trillion more lives over eons.  Oh, and make your enemy into goo and wipe out the next tillion life forms.

I love how stupid people make the literal translation of metaphors... >.<

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You already lose your humanity, regardless of what you choose. Literally, in Synthesis, Physically in Control, or Mentally in Destroy.

I choose Refutal ;p

[alienatedflea]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You already lose your humanity, regardless of what you choose. Literally, in Synthesis, Physically in Control, or Mentally in Destroy.

meh...taboo knows me...but I'd like to think that in synthesis everyone is somehow connected but retains their own individuality...(humanity for humans, Krogan Honor for Krogans, and so on...for each race...)

[SMichelle]

alienatedflea wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

To Destroy the enemy, I have to become the enemy.

To do that you'd have to take a few trillion more lives over eons.  Oh, and make your enemy into goo and wipe out the next tillion life forms.

I love how stupid people make the literal translation of metaphors... >.<

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[alienatedflea]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You already lose your humanity, regardless of what you choose. Literally, in Synthesis, Physically in Control, or Mentally in Destroy.

I choose Refutal ;p

giving up...seems disappointing haha

[shadey]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
]Thats why I don't choose destroy, i know war is harsh, but this is losing your humanity.

you can't lose your humanity

that is just some pseudospiritual babble.

[Taboo]

alienatedflea wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You already lose your humanity, regardless of what you choose. Literally, in Synthesis, Physically in Control, or Mentally in Destroy.

meh...taboo knows me...but I'd like to think that in synthesis everyone is somehow connected but retains their own individuality...(humanity for humans, Krogan Honor for Krogans, and so on...for each race...)

They do. What they are, essentially, are living Geth. They are all ONE being, but with seperate platforms.

But yeah, they aren't really human anymore.

They're something else entirely.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

carrmatt91 wrote...

this thread has given me the worst headache ever...

You think you got a headache, i argued for about 26 pages, my brain feel tired.

[alienatedflea]

SMichelle wrote...

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

gawd...is everyone part of the literary police....

[AngryFrozenWater]

alienatedflea wrote...
machines see in facts...not emotions

Off topic: Researchers used to think that AI could only be achieved by rational thought. Emotion was always waved away as being too complex or irrelevant. However, since about a decade ago they came to the understanding that it was emotion that made thought possible. This has proven to be a milestone in their research. We'll see what it brings.