933 réponses à ce sujet

[Butane9000]

One of my personally biggest problems with the endings besides the horrific writing and other blatant issues was the lack of clarification about the immediate side effects of your decisions. I too like the destroy ending and when I heard all synthetics died I was angry but could see it. However after taking to the forums and hearing shenanigan answers from Bioware about having high EMS meant only the reapers died or some business I got pissed off.

I understand you want us to contemplate on the ending. But seriously, the least you could have told us was concrete information about the immediate outcome of the choice. Which they have in the extended cut. It still doesn't fix everything but now we don't have to deal with unnecessary ambiguity.

I chose/will choose destroy because A.) It defeats the reapers for good and B.) Geth and EDI have the possibility to be rebuilt. This doesn't mean they will be the same but the possibility is there. Rebuilding them is a way to honor their sacrifice. Besides that as stated above it was highly likely several races were going to be wiped out and we or at least "my" Shepard was prepared for such a cost/sacrifice.

That cost being EDI and the Geth makes it slightly more bearable only because I know I can convince the council and the Quarians to allow them to be rebuilt. The only argument is why Shepard lives and they die when the Catalyst stated Shepard is "partly" synthetic and would die too.

Specifically EDI and the Geth had something Shepard didn't. They used reaper code fragments to gain their sentience. There is a distinct possibility that if EDI had been given true sentience without using reaper coding she could have survived, same with the Geth. You can chalk this up to simply the mistake of taking the fastest route to their given objective. So who do we really blame for their demise?

Technically we blame Legion and The Illusive Man. Legion saw the reaper code had given him true sentience but did not take time to truly think and reflect on what it meant. He saw it as the means to the end all Geth wanted in the shortest amount of time. The Illusive Man took a semi-sentient VI from the moon and used reaper coding to make it truly and fully sentient. While this gave EDI true sentience it also gave her more or less a death sentence. So I take less responsibility for these actions because had he Geth chose a different course to intelligence and had EDI been given time to truly grow into her new found sentience without the aid of reaper code they might have survived the beam.

Because the only reason I can truly figure they died is because the energy wave specifically targeted reaper technology and would be able to see the reaper code inside EDI and the Geth. Hopefully when they are rebuilt in the future we are smart enough to inform them of this and give them a chance of finding a new way to true sentience.

[Catscratcher]

I agree with OP. The game never suggested Synthesis, if they imprinted that idea in subtle ways in previous games, like discussing or doing a mission(s) about it, it could have more impact.

My Shepard also made Geth and Quarian peace and encouraged Joker EDI romance. From this perspective Destroy seems bad right. I didn't like to be served with choices and forced to chose one. However only 2 made sense. I didn't like Control because I didn't feel like being Boss of Reapers.

I feel like Extended Cut should really have been an Extended Cut and actually have a mission. With enough military strength, the bonus mission would be about making the catalyst only disable Reapers. So the game can end where Anderson dies :/ For me, it already ended there That's the only perfect ending.

[ShatterSh0t]

My Shepard couldn't pick destroy because had it been "All humans would die" instead of "all geth would die" he'd end up being a hypocrit.

The end doesn't justify the means.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Podge 90 wrote...

You know, I keep watching the Destroy ending, and it's a funny thing.  A funny thing, but I always miss the part where it shows the Geth being wiped out.  I must blink, or glance away at the exact moment every-single-time.  It's very annoying, because I can't wait to watch it and get involved in what everybody is talking about.

It's a funny thing too, because the Catalyst said because Shepard was partly synthetic, he too would be wiped out.  But, funny thing, at the end of Destroy we see Shepard taking a nice deep breath.

So far as I see it, people are speculating that the Geth are wiped out.  And we all know how much we all love speculations.

If I don't see it, it didn't happen.  I've had enough of speculating with this game.

EDI was wiped out, and so were the Geth, Bioware wouldn't make the game so that if you choose destroy the Geth won't die, it makes Destroy the obvious choice, what enrages me more that all the war assets we collecter were useless, Shepard has done the impossible before, can't see why he can't win now.

[Rasofe]

I can't believe this is still going. Usually when a thread is titled this way (as a response to an insult) it doesn't last longer than five minutes.

[Moirai]

ShatterSh0t wrote...

My Shepard couldn't pick destroy because had it been "All humans would die" instead of "all geth would die" he'd end up being a hypocrit.

The end doesn't justify the means.

Maybe he/she would. Maybe not.

Personally, I'd have still been prepared to do it. Although it was never going to happen, given the pulse appeared to be only targetting synthetics with Reaper code. Well, that and it would have been distinctly unpopular to wipe out an organic race in order to destroy the reapers at the end of the series.

Besides, to be honest, our attachment to the Geth was kind of minimal really, compared with any other main race, even allowing for Legion (who was a great character and unfortunately around for too little time gameplay-wise). After all, we'd just spent the last three games doing nothing but slaughtering Geth by the bucket load anyway.

I don't like the idea of wiping them out. But...

[AxStapleton]

Rasofe wrote...

I can't believe this is still going. Usually when a thread is titled this way (as a response to an insult) it doesn't last longer than five minutes.

I never intended it as a response to an insult. Sorry if it appears that way.

[Rasofe]

It sounded like you were accused of being a heartless murderer. Honestly, I only read 5-3 comments on other threads where people said Destroy was a super-genocidal ending, most people seem to accept that others can sacrifice EDI and the Geth for the cause.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Rasofe wrote...

It sounded like you were accused of being a heartless murderer. Honestly, I only read 5-3 comments on other threads where people said Destroy was a super-genocidal ending, most people seem to accept that others can sacrifice EDI and the Geth for the cause.

I think this thread is meant to show that we're not trivializing their sacrifice, which is a problem I have with some of the other destroy-ers. By disregarding their contributions and sacrifice, we would be proving that the Catalyst right, and I feel that is a complete failure, regardless of whether the reapers are dead or not.

[7he Island Head]

EDI and Legion weren't love interests so who cares....

[RadicalDisconnect]

7he Island Head wrote...

EDI and Legion weren't love interests so who cares....

And this is why I'm miffed at some people who also picked destroy...

[thatdude90210]

Sounds like some people's judgement are clouded by their hatred for the initial 3 choices. Where was this "heartless murders" outcry when we had to make the Quarian vs Geth choice on Rannoch if we didn't have the right conditions from ME2. Plus we've already killed countless Geths in the 3 game, not to mention the countless mercs.

To me, the refusal ending is the "waiter spits in your food" ending. Bioware basically saying "so you don't like our 3 color choices? Here's a loogie. Everyone dies!"

[Rasofe]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

It sounded like you were accused of being a heartless murderer. Honestly, I only read 5-3 comments on other threads where people said Destroy was a super-genocidal ending, most people seem to accept that others can sacrifice EDI and the Geth for the cause.

I think this thread is meant to show that we're not trivializing their sacrifice, which is a problem I have with some of the other destroy-ers. By disregarding their contributions and sacrifice, we would be proving that the Catalyst right, and I feel that is a complete failure, regardless of whether the reapers are dead or not.

Well, as I admitted on the first page of this thread I really did pick destroy because I didn't want to die.

[Tirranek]

7he Island Head wrote...

EDI and Legion weren't love interests so who cares....

It's an sad day when I can't tell if this is a joke

Also, agree with OP. It wasn't an easy choice to make, but leaving the Reapers around seemed like an unacceptable situation. If it had been humans that were sacrificed, I think I still would have done it. Metrics of war and all that.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

7he Island Head wrote...

EDI and Legion weren't love interests so who cares....

And this is why I'm miffed at some people who also picked destroy...

[Rasofe]

thatdude90210 wrote...

Sounds like some people's judgement are clouded by their hatred for the initial 3 choices. Where was this "heartless murders" outcry when we had to make the Quarian vs Geth choice on Rannoch if we didn't have the right conditions from ME2. Plus we've already killed countless Geths in the 3 game, not to mention the countless mercs.

To me, the refusal ending is the "waiter spits in your food" ending. Bioware basically saying "so you don't like our 3 color choices? Here's a loogie. Everyone dies!"

Not quite. Even though it defaults a surrender of that cycle, it's still a victory for the next one. Perhaps one might say even more deserving, for heeding the warnings, for not being so stupid all the time, for not putting their hopes into an I-win button. As I said, this is all perhaps - possible perspectives on the matter. I would still not choose refusal because great ethics < lives of friends.

[ABN Tali Fan]

Just throwing it out there... if you don't consider the Geth or EDI alive you can't commit mass murder.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Let me rephrase to make myself clear. An integral part of the ending is to show that we have advanced past the Catalyst's reasons for having reapers. If we chose to destroy simply for the sake of organics and trivialize the sacrifice the Geth and EDI, we will be proof that the Catalyst is correct, and that's an even bigger failure than refuse.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:09 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

ABN Tali Fan wrote...

Just throwing it out there... if you don't consider the Geth or EDI alive you can't commit mass murder.

Thats being obtuse, If I were to say I don't consider Asari alive, its not mass murder, its stupid, just like what you finish saying.

[mauro2222]

ABN Tali Fan wrote...

Just throwing it out there... if you don't consider the Geth or EDI alive you can't commit mass murder.

...really? it doesn't matter what you "consider".

[savionen]

Well, according to the Synthesis ending EDI and the Geth weren't alive.

[RadicalDisconnect]

savionen wrote...

Well, according to the Synthesis ending EDI and the Geth weren't alive.

My interpretation is that Synthesis made them biologically alive and whatever fantasy nonsense magic. In any case, "alive" is not important. Mosquitoes are alive. Bacteria are alive. What I value is sentience and self-awareness, and we use the word "alive" to describe something that has those traits.

[ABN Tali Fan]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

ABN Tali Fan wrote...

Just throwing it out there... if you don't consider the Geth or EDI alive you can't commit mass murder.

Thats being obtuse, If I were to say I don't consider Asari alive, its not mass murder, its stupid, just like what you finish saying.

Actually there are several points in the game where the idea of sythenics being alive is up for debate. In fact is one of the main points of the game. It is up to you decide with your actions. However there are no conversations about Asari being alive. 

[nicocap24]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

savionen wrote...

Well, according to the Synthesis ending EDI and the Geth weren't alive.

My interpretation is that Synthesis made them biologically alive and whatever fantasy nonsense magic. In any case, "alive" is not important. Mosquitoes are alive. Bacteria are alive. What I value is sentience and self-awareness, and we use the word "alive" to describe something that has those traits.

I would consider them to be as alive as we are if they were shown to be moral agents. And sometimes it seems they are, but sometimes it seems they aren't, so I still haven't made up my mind about this. Still, though, even if I was sure of that, I'd still pick destroy. The sacrifice is necessary. 

[BulletFMV2413]

i like destroy because the reapers are destroyed and shepard lives...kinda selfish but hey.....and i look at it like this edi and geth are destroyed okay big deal we can make new better synthetics