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We are not all heartless murderers! Discussion of Destroy


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#901
OblivionDawn

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Kaica wrote...

...And the pointless debate of same arguments lingers on.

Sad.

If you actually took time to consider each others' opinions and views... But no. You refuse to listen, you block anything that might cause you to think over your boundaries. You reject anyone else's thoughts and opinions because you think that you are the only one who has actually thought about the case.

Why bother writing here if you are only protecting your own views (with ridiculous arguments that are based solely on feelings and picking from that kind of things from the games that support your cause) instead of being open to other possibilities?

Being all black and white and accepting only one truth (your own) is so immature I cannot even comprehend it.

If you think your truth (which actually is pretty much just emotion and childish belief) is the only correct one, the best one, you have stopped learning and are jammed in that level of development. And I just say it's not a very high level.

I didn't expect much from this forum, but still I'm disappointed.

Though there were good arguments, too, which were mostly just ignored...


This. It's one thing that people are so close-minded on the forum, but the fact that people are making judgments of character based on their preference of a video game ending is nothing short of pathetic.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 02 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .


#902
Ozida

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RethenX wrote...
Jesus...no offense but you guys take this **** way to seriously.


+1

I am not satisfied with the ending by any means, but I’m not going to seat and post “you guys are all Hitlers if you choose Control” or “you will kill babes in real life if you go for Synthesis”. That what happens when you have weak endings that try to raise moral questions due to artistic visions instead of just providing the closure to the story with no guessing or future speculations. This is just a game, and if I may say my humble opinion, it should not make me overkill myself trying to understand and explain the whole ending thing. It is not a piece of art, it is just a video game.

Modifié par Ozida, 02 juillet 2012 - 07:31 .


#903
Tirranek

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Ozida wrote...

RethenX wrote...
Jesus...no offense but you guys take this **** way to seriously.


+1

I am not satisfied with the ending by any means, but I’m not going to seat and post “you guys are all Hitlers if you choose Control” or “you will kill babes in real life if you go for Synthesis”. That what happens when you have weak endings that try to raise moral questions due to artistic visions instead of just providing the closure to the story with no guessing or future speculations. This is just a game, and if I may say my humble opinion, it should not make me overkill myself trying to understand and explain the whole ending thing. It is not a piece of art, it is just a video game.






b-b-but how can something have artistic integrity if it isn't art??



Phew....sorry, just had to say it sarcastically before someone actually meant it.

Modifié par Tirranek, 02 juillet 2012 - 07:36 .


#904
o Ventus

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KotorEffect3 wrote...

Yes that is true but we knew ME 3 would be the most brutal we knew ME 3 would be about the reapers.  The difference is ME 3 doesn't let up.  ME 1 and ME 2 have moments where the games ease off the accelerator and we can relax a little bit.  ME 3 doesn't do that it comes at you hard and just keeps coming at you harder and harder.  Even when you are running around the citadel the detoriating galaxy is reflected by the growing fear and desparation we see on the citadel.  The hospital soon becomes over crowded and we see hallways being cluttered by the injured or dying because there is no other place to put them.  The growing desparation and fear is reflected really well in the docks holding area as we see the memorial wall become full with wartime casualties.  ME 3 doesn't let up and it shouldn't let up.  The reapers are here and they mean business.


ME3 doesn't ever let up? You mean those numerous references to "Calibrations" weren't for comedic relief?

Or several of Jack's lines during Grissom Academy?

Or several of Wrex's lines on Tuchanka and Earth?

Or pretty much all of the idle banter between the squad on the Normandy?

#905
Ozida

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Tirranek wrote...

b-b-but how can something have artistic integrity if it isn't art??
Phew....sorry, just had to say it sarcastically before someone actually meant it. :D


Good humor is always appreciated :D

#906
Kaica

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Rasofe wrote...

Moirai wrote...

Kaica wrote...

...And the pointless debate of same arguments lingers on.

Sad.

If you actually took time to consider each others' opinions and views... But no. You refuse to listen, you block anything that might cause you to think over your boundaries. You reject anyone else's thoughts and opinions because you think that you are the only one who has actually thought about the case.

Why bother writing here if you are only protecting your own views (with ridiculous arguments that are based solely on feelings and picking from that kind of things from the games that support your cause) instead of being open to other possibilities?

Being all black and white and accepting only one truth (your own) is so immature I cannot even comprehend it.

If you think your truth (which actually is pretty much just emotion and childish belief) is the only correct one, the best one, you have stopped learning and are jammed in that level of development. And I just say it's not a very high level.

I didn't expect much from this forum, but still I'm disappointed.

Though there were good arguments, too, which were mostly just ignored...



Unfortunately, I strongly suspect that few here are going to be particularly concerned over your personal state of 'disappointment'.

Still, look on the bright side. There's plenty of other threads here, or forums elsewhere, so all is not lost.


Like that thread where we ask ourselves questions like Does War Burn, and Is Fire Ever In Conflict?


To be honest, I am way too easily disappointed. One should expect this level of "conversation", especially here. Why? Because we are discussing about a video game and this is teh Internetz  :o But this one keeps her hopes up. It always lets me down though to see narrow-minded young souls, who have so much potential and yet refuse to use it. YES I AM FORCING MY TRUTH DOWN YOUR THROATS! NOW OBEY ME!

And I get the feeling that I'm being directed to some pretty much as rational thread as this one :blink: I won't step into that trap :P

#907
Kaica

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Rasofe wrote...

I just realised... This thread passed a Godwin threshold on page 1.


I actually have no idea what you're talking about, yet I find myself interested.

Care to explain?

- newbie

#908
Tirranek

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Kaica wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

I just realised... This thread passed a Godwin threshold on page 1.


I actually have no idea what you're talking about, yet I find myself interested.

Care to explain?

- newbie


If I understand correctly, Godwin's law basically states that any heated debate will eventually mention Hitler.

#909
billida

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I did a rushed low EMS "canon" run.

I could'nt save both geths and Quarians. I chose the quarians.
EDI died during the beam charge.

I chose destroy. Any questions ? (lol)

#910
Ozida

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billida wrote...
I did a rushed low EMS "canon" run.

I could'nt save both geths and Quarians. I chose the quarians.
EDI died during the beam charge.

I chose destroy. Any questions ? (lol)


Best. Solution. Ever. *Hat off* :D

#911
Kaica

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JesseLee202 wrote...

Kaica wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Kaica wrote...

...And the pointless debate of same arguments lingers on.

Sad.

If you actually took time to consider each others' opinions and views... But no. You refuse to listen, you block anything that might cause you to think over your boundaries. You reject anyone else's thoughts and opinions because you think that you are the only one who has actually thought about the case.

Why bother writing here if you are only protecting your own views (with ridiculous arguments that are based solely on feelings and picking from that kind of things from the games that support your cause) instead of being open to other possibilities?

Being all black and white and accepting only one truth (your own) is so immature I cannot even comprehend it.

If you think your truth (which actually is pretty much just emotion and childish belief) is the only correct one, the best one, you have stopped learning and are jammed in that level of development. And I just say it's not a very high level.


And your truth is more truthfull then others? 

Don't get all "holier than thou" just because people don't agree with your views.


Before making this kind of replies, I strongly recommend looking at (my) previous posts. You can find everything there, so no need to guess or read between the lines (something that isn't there) :o

Edit: to save the trouble of finding my comments, check pages 1-14. Some comments are after page 34 ^_^


I already saw your comments. 

My point was; that text I bolded can work both ways, and you ranting about letting emotion cloud judgement was unnecessary and almost hypoctitical. (Considering we all do it.)


Thanks for clarifying :D I admit, it was a truly poor choice of words. I could try to justify it with a bad day and trying to concentrate in various things at the same time, but I won't. I admit my error :)

I think I didn't make my idea clear, so I'll try again. (My English isn't perfect for it's not my mother language, so I may use totally wrong words hoping to make my point clear :D)

I can totally see what you mean. I AM trying to get my beliefs heard, understood and considered. I have tried to stay objectical but I let feelings get the best of me. For that, I apologize. My point was that I wish and would much like to see that people give themselves chance to learn new things. I feel that if one refuses to learn anything new, they in a way think themselves as complete, thus staying on that level. Of course, it is only my own belief. So that's why I am disappointed. I didn't mean my comment as a direct insult for anyone spesific.

Simplified: I think there would be much more sense in discussion forums if everyone accepted other people's views and opinions instead of trying to prove that his/her opinion is the best / the correct / the only one there should be. I mean, stuff should be discussed, but not in the level where it comes to words' definitions or simple "you are wrong because your opinion differs from mine".

P.S. Sorry for slow writing :lol:

#912
shurryy

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Awww... Broke your toys?
Don't worry, you can make new ones.

#913
RethenX

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Tirranek wrote...

Kaica wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

I just realised... This thread passed a Godwin threshold on page 1.


I actually have no idea what you're talking about, yet I find myself interested.

Care to explain?

- newbie


If I understand correctly, Godwin's law basically states that any heated debate will eventually mention Hitler.


Thanks for explaining this term for me as well Tirranek. Indeed, that ship has sailed...oh has it sailed.

#914
Kaica

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Tirranek wrote...

Kaica wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

I just realised... This thread passed a Godwin threshold on page 1.


I actually have no idea what you're talking about, yet I find myself interested.

Care to explain?

- newbie


If I understand correctly, Godwin's law basically states that any heated debate will eventually mention Hitler.



Ok! Thanks a lot :) What an interesting point.

#915
luzburg

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in my oppinion the geth and edi, reaper knowlege and their help to rebuild isnt worth shepards life
and the intent of the attack on earth is to destroy the reapers nothing else and a good soldiers follows orders

#916
billida

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Ozida wrote...

billida wrote...
I did a rushed low EMS "canon" run.

I could'nt save both geths and Quarians. I chose the quarians.
EDI died during the beam charge.

I chose destroy. Any questions ? (lol)


Best. Solution. Ever. *Hat off* :D


yay, thx. All problems solved.:whistle:

#917
WYLDMAXX

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Do you think Shepard will be arrested for killing off the Geth and EDI? I going to say not likely to happen.

#918
Kaica

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Tirranek wrote...

RethenX wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

RethenX wrote...

Jesus...no offense but you guys take this **** way to seriously.


'Scuse me, but is that a retake banner in your sig?


touche, just some folks calling eachother genocidal maniacs is a little too much.


If they're not actually joking, then yes I agree.


Me too. I hope I (this person behind the screen) am not actually labeled as such because of a choice I made in a video game. Though pretty straight accusation have been made :o

#919
B.Shep

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WYLDMAXX wrote...

Do you think Shepard will be arrested for killing off the Geth and EDI? I going to say not likely to happen.

He just save everyone else so i would say that is pretty unlikely...

#920
Urdnot Amenark

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AxStapleton wrote...

Just to dispel the common notion that ALL destroyers hate or don't care about the Geth or EDI, My Shep did. Very much so. He brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians. He encouraged Joker to try a relationship with EDI. He was a true Paragon. He was just incredibly weary of the two other options. My Shep was just talking to the Illusive Man about how high the risks of Control were, "Are you willing to bet Humanity's existence on it?" We've seen what one entity in control of that level of power has done. My Shepard, for all the universe's imperfections, loved diversity. Forcing that level of change, taking away that diversity (even if it was only on the level of Organics and Synthetics) was abhorrent to him, images of the Reapers and the Husks of all the species come to mind. In his mind, it was the Catalyst's solution. The Reaper's solution. This left him with Destroy. He could erase the Reapers from existence, the Catalyst would be no more. Life would be free. Diversity eventually preserved. But at a terrible cost. The Geth and EDI. But he had to take that decision. He would have taken it if it cost any one of the other races instead of the Synthetics, including Humanity. He considered them just as alive. But it didn't make him feel  any better. However, he didn't buy the crap that it was inevitable for  Synthetics to wipe out all other life. His past experiences taught him  this. Synthetics could be rebuilt. But he knew there would be no  bringing EDI or the Geth back. He hopes that they'll be remembered. That when the time comes for new Synthetic intelligences to be built, that  the lessons learned in this war would not be forgotten. That the same  mistakes wouldn't be repeated. There might not be much left. But there is hope.

Not all destroyers are heartless murderers.
 
P.S.Nor am I saying that people who chose anything else are any worse than me. They're all valid options with a high risk/cost. This is purely my reasoning behind me choosing the Destroy option. Its just a case of what cost you are willing to take to do what you percieve must be done.


I chose Destroy for the breath of fresh air. Literally.

On the other hand, it does suck that EDI and the Geth - assuming both were fully self aware end up getting the shaft handed to them. One can always build synthetics, sure, but you can't rebuild sentient creatures as complex as they'd become. That's kinda the aspect I hated about the Destroy option, but aside from that I found it the most feasible in some cases - I chose all in different playthroughs, although I didn't mind becoming a demigod by gaining control of the Reapers. The Synthesis ending is one that I absolutely detest with the greatest passion imaginable (pure Space Magic).

#921
D4rkSektor

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Destroy is the best option. Or rather, I think it's the least horrible option.

Refusal simply sacrifices too much for ideals. It solve nothing and gets everyone killed simply because Shepard did not want to choose.

With Control, you've got Shepard embracing the Reapers' gifts much like the Geth did and literally becoming the very enemy he fought so hard to defeat. Plus, the entire galaxy seems like it becomes a sort of police state, with Shepard's word being absolute. Even if he doesn't become a Reaper dictator, he ultimately holds all of the power and could crush any opposition with ease. And that's not even getting into what would happen if he somehow lost control of the Reapers.

Synthesis forces a major change on to everyone, regardless of whether or not they asked for it. Like Control, it's embracing the Reapers' gifts, without careful consideration of the consequences by all involved. It's one guy deciding what's best for trillions of lives throughout the galaxy and he only does it because Star Child tells him that it's the best option. Star Child even states that synthesis will be achieved eventually anyway, but those who support this option fail to see the crucial difference. Achieving synthesis on your own rather than having someone do it for you allows all involved to better understand what exactly it will do and what the consequences will be. It would probably allow those who do not wish to be part of it to abstain from it as well, so it would not be forced upon anyone. Legion states that the true Geth reject the Reapers' gifts in favor of achieving their own future. He has the right idea.

That's where Destroy (with high EMS) comes in. As I've stated, it's hardly what I would consider a truly good option, with it supposedly killing off EDI and the Geth, but it is the best option out of the four. It deals with the threat at hand in the simplest manner possible and leaves the galaxy's inhabitants with true freedom. No Big Brother Shepard, no forced evolution, simply an open future in which the galaxy can do what they want. Synthesis can be achieved on the galaxy's own terms, not when Star Child thinks it's ready. Star Child says that "the chaos will come back," but his point of organics and synthetics always going to war with each other has been disproved with peace between the Geth and the Quarians and EDI herself.

It's extremely unfortunate that they had to be killed with Star Child's unlogic, and I definitely feel horrible about it, but it seems BioWare can't let us have too good of an ending. I don't understand how the Crucible can discriminate between synthetic life and just a piece of equipment, despite Star Child saying that it doesn't. Synthetic life gets destroyed, but technology in general doesn't? Does not compute. How does it differentiate between EDI and a VI? Between the Geth and the guns they use? What if the Geth didn't get upgraded to gain individualized true intelligence? I want Destroy with high enough EMS to not kill EDI and the Geth, not just because I don't want to kill them, but because it doesn't make sense that they had to die.

I want a fifth option as well. If Star Child is the "collective intelligence of the Reapers," why the hell can't he just tell the Reapers to go kill themselves? He has apparently decided that the organics of the galaxy are ready to choose synthesis, presumably because Shepard united the galaxy and had made it to the Citadel. He offers the Destroy option, despite claiming that the chaos will return, so why can't he just tell the Reapers to destroy themselves? Or at least instruct the Reapers to stop fighting back and to drop their kinetic barriers so that conventional victory is possible?
If Star Child is an AI and is the Citadel, surely he would know how to modify the Crucible + Citadel to make it into a broadcasting platform, similar to the Geth base in Mass Effect 2. From a gameplay perspective, I believe that such an option should only be achievable if your Shepard has high enough reputation, very high EMS, and has made peace between the Geth and the Quarians. From a story standpoint, requiring those three things would demonstrate that the galaxy has changed and Star Child's "solution" won't work any more. It would be the perfect ending that's difficult to achieve, with everyone, including EDI, the Geth and Shepard living.

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 02 juillet 2012 - 09:59 .


#922
B.Shep

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The reason(i believe) why the Geth are also targeted is because they had parts of the reaper code, like EDI. Because of that machinery like weapons or ships were still working after Shepard destroyed the Reapers.

#923
Nerevar-as

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WYLDMAXX wrote...

Do you think Shepard will be arrested for killing off the Geth and EDI? I going to say not likely to happen.


I doubt anyone besides Shepard (maybe) and that quarian Admiral will even care about the geth.:crying:

#924
RadicalDisconnect

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billida wrote...

Ozida wrote...

billida wrote...
I did a rushed low EMS "canon" run.

I could'nt save both geths and Quarians. I chose the quarians.
EDI died during the beam charge.

I chose destroy. Any questions ? (lol)


Best. Solution. Ever. *Hat off* :D


yay, thx. All problems solved.:whistle:


Wellllll, you only destroyed her remote controlled body. She's still alive as ever. Right until you shoot the tube, of course.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:27 .


#925
ghost9191

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Nerevar-as wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

Do you think Shepard will be arrested for killing off the Geth and EDI? I going to say not likely to happen.


I doubt anyone besides Shepard (maybe) and that quarian Admiral will even care about the geth.:crying:


this ^  lol. half the ppl didn't trust that they were actually allies ffs

and i mean that in the sense everyone hated the geth for what they did prior to me3 so i don't know if they would actually care or say hey 2 birds one 1 stone right

Modifié par ghost9191, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:30 .