155 réponses à ce sujet

[Destructo-Bot]

Keeping it in the My Docs makes perfect sense for many reasons. This is not stupidity, it's a good thing. And as stated you can always relocate your My Docs folder. Your game folder is for the installed content, all user data (save games, profiles, screenshots) should be kept in my documents.

[Starlight]

bjdbwea wrote...

The main reason why any PC should at least have two user accounts is security, as you should know. One Administrator account, one user account for each user to work or play games with. See the initial poster's problem for demonstration as to why this matters. Normally, a standard user can't even write into the "Programs" folder, which means a game shouldn't try to put its save games there anymore. I'm not a fan of Microsoft, but they've indeed learned a lot. It's not their fault if people don't follow guidelines and common sense.

Actually, this practice has been done on Unix and Linux a long long time ago. Microsoft may have learnt it from the BSD Unix.

However, Unix and Linux does use the user folders to separate all user-custom data. They are mostly put under /home(It looks better than use "My Documents") and you could even put it on any folders and partitions at all, not matter during installation or after installation. Put all of the user-custom data into "My Documents" seems a bit....stupid to me....

[Skydiver8888]

I agree...good thing. I wish older games had it, and it was driven home to me two weeks ago when my old computer decided to give up the ghost. rather than having to recover one folder off my old drive, i now have to go through and recover pretty much the entire program files directory instead.



I don't mind reinstalling the games, but getting to the save games is going to be a pain....

[Deran2]

Sucks that you lost the saves, but you should have things backed up. There is no excuse for anyone the least bit computer savvy not to have back ups of things they want to keep in case of a hard drive failure. Of all the parts in your computer the hard drive is the most likely to die. It doesn't matter if all the saves are stored in an easy to access place like My Documents or spread all over the bloody place making them a pain in the arse to find, if you want to keep them safe back them up.

[SheffSteel]

Deran2 wrote...
Of all the parts in your computer the hard drive is the most likely to die.

This bears repeating. Until (if) we all have solid state drives, the HDD is the weakest link. Moving parts, yo.

[Baalzie]

I find it funny to see people saying it is only smart and good to put *forcefully* saved games in a folder under "My documents" for security reasons... And Microsoft doing a good job doing so...

Honestly... What are the biggest security breaches on any MS machine if You take Viruslook out of the picture that is? *Viruslook=Outlook for those not too savvy*

Correct, Forced unsecure central data storage...

Where everyones grandmom knows where files will be kept, forcing everyone to use a uniform filestructure... Smart move from a security standpoint? Uhm no...



Talk about giving all wrongdoeers a bluecopy of every single system in Windowspowered pc's... Good game... Yes MS seeing the bigger picture... I understand...

Win7 is what Vista should have been.... When it came out a few years back! NOW they should have moved on quite a bit more... And forced/hidden control mechanisms is only good for total pcnewbs... If You know ANYTHING about pc's it'll only get in the way and annoy... And hamper security and usability... But, alas, only for folks with knowhow..

.

And putting saved games and gamesettingfiles under something amptly named "MY DOCUMENTS" is smart?

No, letting folks decide And be able to change the storagelocation IF THEY WANT TO, now that is smart... They can suggest that loc as a standard but ffs let ME decide!



If You do things You don't know enough about, it's Your own fault... If You can't drive a car, let someone else do it... But if You DO know, You should be allowed.... How is that in ANY way bad?

Noone touches my pc but me... So only I can fub up my system... Let me frigging decide where I put files on my own pc thankyouverymuch!

[Seifz]

All personal files and settings belong in the User/ folder, not in any Program Files folder. Indeed, you should be using a restricted account that doesn't even have write permissions in the Program Files folder unless you're installing, updating, or removing software.

Microsoft, EA, and BioWare are all entirely right on this. Your save games belong in your personal folder.

EDIT:  That said, Windows7 does include a "Saved Games" folder in the User/<name> folder and my saved games should really be stored there, rather than in User/<name>/My Documents/BioWare/Dragon Age/Characters.  Dammit.

Modifié par Seifz, 15 décembre 2009 - 08:17 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

MerinTB wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

It's a requirement of the Games For Windows certification. Not sure why some non-GFW games do it as well though. I personally moved My Documents folder to a different partition/drive than the default and luckily haven't had any issues with losing games that way.

Wow, I'm surprised I didn't know I could move that.

Heh.

Well, that solves a major problem I was having then.

Be careful with that, though.  Choosing a root directory (like D:\\) as your Documents folder can really mess some things up.  Make sure you choose an actual folder rather than a root directory.

Mass Effect simply wouldn't save your games if you had your Documents folder mapped to a root directory.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 15 décembre 2009 - 08:20 .

[Deran2]

Baalzie wrote...

I find it funny to see people saying it is only smart and good to put *forcefully* saved games in a folder under "My documents" for security reasons... And Microsoft doing a good job doing so...
Honestly... What are the biggest security breaches on any MS machine if You take Viruslook out of the picture that is? *Viruslook=Outlook for those not too savvy*
Correct, Forced unsecure central data storage...
Where everyones grandmom knows where files will be kept, forcing everyone to use a uniform filestructure... Smart move from a security standpoint? Uhm no...

Talk about giving all wrongdoeers a bluecopy of every single system in Windowspowered pc's... Good game... Yes MS seeing the bigger picture... I understand...
Win7 is what Vista should have been.... When it came out a few years back! NOW they should have moved on quite a bit more... And forced/hidden control mechanisms is only good for total pcnewbs... If You know ANYTHING about pc's it'll only get in the way and annoy... And hamper security and usability... But, alas, only for folks with knowhow..
.
And putting saved games and gamesettingfiles under something amptly named "MY DOCUMENTS" is smart?
No, letting folks decide And be able to change the storagelocation IF THEY WANT TO, now that is smart... They can suggest that loc as a standard but ffs let ME decide!

If You do things You don't know enough about, it's Your own fault... If You can't drive a car, let someone else do it... But if You DO know, You should be allowed.... How is that in ANY way bad?
Noone touches my pc but me... So only I can fub up my system... Let me frigging decide where I put files on my own pc thankyouverymuch!

And these so-called computer knowledgeable people are incapable of remembering to back up important data? Too stupid to know they shouldn't store sensitive data on an unsecured hard drive? Not able to use good anti-viruses and firewalls to protect their system? Can't password lock their accounts with strong passwords to keep unwanted people out?

Yes putting saves in My Documents is something to make it easy for people. And I'm fine with that. I'd rather have all my save games in one central location instead of hunting for them all over the place like how it used to be. It would be nice if we could pick where these saves would go, but thats a minor issue and not worth developers wasting time and money that is better spent on the game itself. You can move My Documents to another hard drive if that makes you feel more secure, but the truth is no matter what hard drive its on that is the biggest point of failure in a computer. Unless, as someone above said, you're using SSDs.

[Baalzie]

Seifz wrote...


EDIT:  That said, Windows7 does include a "Saved Games" folder in the User/ folder and my saved games should really be stored there, rather than in User//My Documents/BioWare/Dragon Age/Characters.  Dammit.

THIS, I can agree with, although I still want control of My own pc, not Bioware, not Microsoft... Me.... It's not undoable, it's not harder to program, it's just lazyness and "policing" from MS...
Well known fact for all old pc-gurus... The reason Obuntu came to be...
 
The day I use Vista on any pc is tha day Hell froze over and the Devil upgraded to Win 3.11...

[MerinTB]

I have my OS on one drive, my games on another, etc -

the only HD failures I have are on the OS drive.

It is possible to have physical hard disk failure, but the majority of failures are due to the OS screwing up, which often requires re-installing the OS.

Keeping everything else (music, videos, games, documents) on other drives prevents the OS crashing causing you to lose everything. Yes, you should still back-up (and I do), but having fire insurance is a good idea while you still try to prevent fires from happening.



There are benefits to the moving all save games to one location, I'm not dismissing that - I'm saying that using the My Documents folder for it is an odd choice, and that defaulting the important data (the stuff that if the computer crashes you can't simply reinstall) to the drive most likely to crash is counter-intertuitive.

[MerinTB]

SheffSteel wrote...

Deran2 wrote...
Of all the parts in your computer the hard drive is the most likely to die.

This bears repeating. Until (if) we all have solid state drives, the HDD is the weakest link. Moving parts, yo.

Actually, statistically AND from years as a field tech fixing personal and business computers, the most likely part of the comptuer to die is the Power Supply Unit.

[Baalzie]

Deran2 wrote...
And these so-called computer knowledgeable people are incapable of remembering to back up important data? Too stupid to know they shouldn't store sensitive data on an unsecured hard drive? Not able to use good anti-viruses and firewalls to protect their system? Can't password lock their accounts with strong passwords to keep unwanted people out?

Yes putting saves in My Documents is something to make it easy for people. And I'm fine with that. I'd rather have all my save games in one central location instead of hunting for them all over the place like how it used to be. It would be nice if we could pick where these saves would go, but thats a minor issue and not worth developers wasting time and money that is better spent on the game itself. You can move My Documents to another hard drive if that makes you feel more secure, but the truth is no matter what hard drive its on that is the biggest point of failure in a computer. Unless, as someone above said, you're using SSDs.

Nope I backup my files just fine thank You!
I also put them all where I like them to be, not where some ****** programmer not half knowledgeable about the platform want me to put it...
As much as the games/OS allow me to anyhow...
The problem isn't that they wanna make it easier for newbs... But Disallowing a move for those in the know is stupid... And annoying... Guess why Vista was so bashed? Guess why Win 7 came out?
A step in the right direction, but one step doesn't a whole trip make...

And please don't tell me You like how Games for Windows Live works...

[Deran2]

MerinTB wrote...
Actually, statistically AND from years as a field tech fixing personal and business computers, the most likely part of the comptuer to die is the Power Supply Unit.

Hmm. Well if we're talking lower-end crappy PSUs which fill the majority of systems out there yeah. The higher quality PSUs usually have a lower chance of failure than the crap that comes from OEMs like Deer.

[Seifz]

Baalzie wrote...

Seifz wrote...


EDIT:  That said, Windows7 does include a "Saved Games" folder in the User/ folder and my saved games should really be stored there, rather than in User//My Documents/BioWare/Dragon Age/Characters.  Dammit.

THIS, I can agree with, although I still want control of My own pc, not Bioware, not Microsoft... Me.... It's not undoable, it's not harder to program, it's just lazyness and "policing" from MS...
Well known fact for all old pc-gurus... The reason Obuntu came to be...
 
The day I use Vista on any pc is tha day Hell froze over and the Devil upgraded to Win 3.11...

Ugh.

1.  Operating systems need standard path names.  Without them, software developers are free to store files wherever they please and the user is left with a mess.  Further, standard path names ensure interoperability between different programs, different installations of the same OS, and different machines on the same network.  This is very important.

2.  It's Ubuntu, not Obuntu, and it's a derivative of Debian GNU/Linux, itself a flavor of the Linux operating system combined with the GNU toolchain and base system.  In my opinion, it's not even a good distribution because it actually removes a fair bit of control from the user, doesn't give credit where credit is due, and doesn't make significant contributions to the community.  Leeches.

3.  Ubuntu has standard path names, too!  What do you think /home/<name> is for?  Why does every Linux distribution have /etc, /bin/, /usr, /sbin, /opt, /home, /lib, etc?  As I said, standard path names are important.  Every operating system uses them, and for good reason.  Now, you're free to symlink /lib to point to another directory on a different disc, but you can do that in Windows, too.

[REH1967]

It's supposed to make it easier for the end user to back up/ locate their data...for the most part, it's a good idea.

[Deran2]

Baalzie wrote...

Nope I backup my files just fine thank You!
I also put them all where I like them to be, not where some ****** programmer not half knowledgeable about the platform want me to put it...
As much as the games/OS allow me to anyhow...
The problem isn't that they wanna make it easier for newbs... But Disallowing a move for those in the know is stupid... And annoying... Guess why Vista was so bashed? Guess why Win 7 came out?
A step in the right direction, but one step doesn't a whole trip make...

And please don't tell me You like how Games for Windows Live works...

****** programmers? Really? Programmers have to know a hell of a lot about a platform while programming on it. If they don't then their programs won't work. Why do you think good programming courses in colleges also deal with hardware and other software on top the stuff required to actually make software?

As I said, there are more important things for developers to worry about than were to put save files.Microsoft could add the option to InstallShield, but the demand really isn't there for it.

Vista was bashed mostly due to driver issues and compatibility problems. There were other reasons, obviously, but nothing as major as those were early on. Win7 was made because it allows MS to make more money and its part of their normal OS release window. Prior to XP MS OSes generally had a three year product cycle.

Live? That is an argument/rant for another time.

[Seifz]

Deran2 wrote...

Baalzie wrote...

Nope I backup my files just fine thank You!
I also put them all where I like them to be, not where some ****** programmer not half knowledgeable about the platform want me to put it...
As much as the games/OS allow me to anyhow...
The problem isn't that they wanna make it easier for newbs... But Disallowing a move for those in the know is stupid... And annoying... Guess why Vista was so bashed? Guess why Win 7 came out?
A step in the right direction, but one step doesn't a whole trip make...

And please don't tell me You like how Games for Windows Live works...

****** programmers? Really? Programmers have to know a hell of a lot about a platform while programming on it. If they don't then their programs won't work. Why do you think good programming courses in colleges also deal with hardware and other software on top the stuff required to actually make software?

You might be surprised to learn just how little most programmers know about the platform that they're targetting.  It's a sad reality, but most CS programs don't cover much on the hardware side at all.  Indeed, a lot of them don't even bother to teach an assembly course anymore.  My university offers such a course, but they use a made-up language and simulate it in Windows rather than just teaching something useful.  It's quite sad, really.  That's why I switched to Computer Engineering when I was an undergrad.

[MerinTB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

It's a requirement of the Games For Windows certification. Not sure why some non-GFW games do it as well though. I personally moved My Documents folder to a different partition/drive than the default and luckily haven't had any issues with losing games that way.

Wow, I'm surprised I didn't know I could move that.

Heh.

Well, that solves a major problem I was having then.

Be careful with that, though.  Choosing a root directory (like D:\\\\) as your Documents folder can really mess some things up.  Make sure you choose an actual folder rather than a root directory.

Mass Effect simply wouldn't save your games if you had your Documents folder mapped to a root directory.

Not my first trip to the rodeo, my friend.


But thanks for the heads up in anycase.  Since I didn't know about the "standard" of games saving in My Documents now (where have I been?) and that you could change where My Documents is stored (that I know why I missed it - I never let anything go into the "My" Folders as anything I want safe will never be stored on the same drive as the OS) - I could see where I could very well not know that.

So, honestly, thanks for the heads-up.

[Deran2]

Seifz wrote...
You might be surprised to learn just how little most programmers know about the platform that they're targetting.  It's a sad reality, but most CS programs don't cover much on the hardware side at all.  Indeed, a lot of them don't even bother to teach an assembly course anymore.  My university offers such a course, but they use a made-up language and simulate it in Windows rather than just teaching something useful.  It's quite sad, really.  That's why I switched to Computer Engineering when I was an undergrad.

Seriously? Damn. The college here offers programming on another campus, but their programming course deals with hardware. Not sure if they do assembly or not, but I know the students have an online hardware class.

[MerinTB]

When I was in college the CS courses used Eiffel.

Nothing like teaching you on a language not really used by anyone.



One of the MANY reasons I switched majors.

[orpheus333]

If this happens simply get a live linux cd and backup your important files through that OS. Its incredibly simple and easy and will work most of the time unless you have seriously fubard the file system on your C Partition.



I don't particularly like the personal game files in My Documents folder (it clutters it up and makes it lok ugly) but i believe they ahve to keep these files their due to microsofts implimentation of user accounts and user access control.

[EJ42]

You should not be playing the game with "root" access. The game should not have access to write to any folder that the existing user does not have access to. This means that you should not be able to write to anything under the "Program Files" tree.

You've been spoiled by the bad computing practices of Windows/DOS for too long. You need to get used to secure computing practices.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EJ42 wrote...

You should not be playing the game with "root" access. The game should not have access to write to any folder that the existing user does not have access to. This means that you should not be able to write to anything under the "Program Files" tree.

I don't even install games to the Program Files tree.  I'm not even sure why it exists.