155 réponses à ce sujet

[F-C]

the thing i always find amusing about these type of threads is that i havent had a virus or trojan crash my windows in over 10 years and i dont even use an anti-virus program, at all.



seriously the last time i got a trojan that messed up my windows i was running windows98.



its just a matter of using your brain, you dont really need anti-virus, you just have to think before you click.

[Darpaek]

LOL! I did. About 3 weeks after I started my new job, some grad student wandered into my office and asked me to install KeyNote before he met with his dissertation committee. He handed me this white thing that looked like an overgrown iPod. I started to say, "WTF is a KeyNote?" but I caught myself and simply nodded, "I'll have it for you tomorrow morning."



And, that was my first interaction with a Mac since the IIe in grade school! LOL

I don't think either of those statements are defensible. The amount of time any application is intended to be installed (unless it has some kind of dev-imposed limitation) is exactly as long as the user wants it installed. How does that have anything to do with the location saved games are stored? Not trying to be argumentative...I just think that MS is moving very strongly in the right direction with the changes they've made to the OS's file system layout and security (things that have needed attention for a long time).

You don't install Office to write a paper and then uninstall it afterwards. You do for a video game. If you can't see the difference, we'll simply have to disagree.



I'm a PC gamer with a strong Linux background. C:\\ is my root. It includes Windows, Office, Adobe, and 15 gigs of freespace for future "Windows Applications." D:\\ is for everything else - particularly video games and porn.



I knew I could remap my MyDocs, and I did a long time ago. As we've seen from this thread, the average user isn't even aware this is possible - even the D:\\ drive gamers. I'm not happy with any default setting that screws with my root. Plain and simple.

[SomeRediculousName]

To move your save and config location just edit data\\DAOriginsConfig.xml and data\\DAOriginsLauncher.xml in the game install directory. 
Change the the following lines to your liking:

<string name="USERDATA_DIR">${CSIDL_PERSONAL}\\BioWare\\Dragon Age</string>
<string name="NEWS_DIR">${CSIDL_PERSONAL}\\BioWare\\Dragon Age\\News</string>
<string name="CONFIG_DIR">${CSIDL_PERSONAL}\\BioWare\\Dragon Age\\Settings</string>

Where ${CSIDL_PERSONAL} is your location of Documents.

(NEWS_DIR only exists in DAOriginsLauncher.xml)

More work, less talk.

[whtnyte-raernst]

Oh good grief! I just love all these so called "experts" pontificating in here!
Okay, MY qualification: Associate of Applied Science degree in Computer Forensics. What does that mean? I have been trained to get into a computer and find every dirty little secret it knows about you, and trust me, your computer knows more about you than you think!

I've seen several spouting "Security 101" factoids and missing the major security bungles.
#1 rename the Administrator account, and put a strong password on it. 90% of the computers a hacker will encounter will be running Windows, and have an account named Administrator. That's 2 out of 3 pieces of the puzzle a hacker needs to get in.
#2 Disable AND rename the Guest account, again same reason as #1, remove a known puzzle piece.
#3 Data doesn't disappear from a hard drive until it has been written over SEVERAL times. Almost ANYTHING is recoverable if it's important enough. In computer forensics, they say if you want data on a hard drive gone, toss it in a wood chipper. Unless the platters are physically damaged...data is recoverable.

#4 NO DATA STORAGE MEDIUM IS PERMANENT!!!
Solid State Devices are rates in read/write life. After a certain amount of reads and writes, they will fail. CD/DVD become stained/foggy over time. This is why companies pay a lot of money to secure their data, long term storgage has to be renewed/replaced or it WILL fail when you need it most. Backing up to another partition on the same drive is not a back up. Always backup to something external to your computer, whether it be a flash drive, external hard drive, CD/DVD...

So the bottom line...it doesn't matter WHERE your data is. If you want to keep it, back it up to something outside your computer. And unless you have a web server running from your computer, most hackers aren't interested in your computer )

[orpheus333]

whtnyte-raernst wrote...

Oh good grief! I just love all these so called "experts" pontificating in here!
Okay, MY qualification: Associate of Applied Science degree in Computer Forensics. What does that mean? I have been trained to get into a computer and find every dirty little secret it knows about you, and trust me, your computer knows more about you than you think!

I've seen several spouting "Security 101" factoids and missing the major security bungles.
#1 rename the Administrator account, and put a strong password on it. 90% of the computers a hacker will encounter will be running Windows, and have an account named Administrator. That's 2 out of 3 pieces of the puzzle a hacker needs to get in.
#2 Disable AND rename the Guest account, again same reason as #1, remove a known puzzle piece.
#3 Data doesn't disappear from a hard drive until it has been written over SEVERAL times. Almost ANYTHING is recoverable if it's important enough. In computer forensics, they say if you want data on a hard drive gone, toss it in a wood chipper. Unless the platters are physically damaged...data is recoverable.

#4 NO DATA STORAGE MEDIUM IS PERMANENT!!!
Solid State Devices are rates in read/write life. After a certain amount of reads and writes, they will fail. CD/DVD become stained/foggy over time. This is why companies pay a lot of money to secure their data, long term storgage has to be renewed/replaced or it WILL fail when you need it most. Backing up to another partition on the same drive is not a back up. Always backup to something external to your computer, whether it be a flash drive, external hard drive, CD/DVD...

So the bottom line...it doesn't matter WHERE your data is. If you want to keep it, back it up to something outside your computer. And unless you have a web server running from your computer, most hackers aren't interested in your computer )

I do alot of internet browsing, web server stuff (i have an personal web site running through apache) vio a virtual machine now. Mainly because i need to keep my main OS as clean as i can get it. Are virtual machine safe for this? I do have my network connection setup as bridged though.

Figured I might as well ask an expert concidering you're around.

Modifié par andyr1986, 16 décembre 2009 - 03:15 .

[whtnyte-raernst]

andyr1986 wrote...

whtnyte-raernst wrote...

So the bottom line...it doesn't matter WHERE your data is. If you want to keep it, back it up to something outside your computer. And unless you have a web server running from your computer, most hackers aren't interested in your computer )

I do alot of internet browsing, web server stuff (i have an personal web site running through apache) vio a virtual machine now. Mainly because i need to keep my main OS as clean as i can get it. Are virtual machine safe for this? I do have my network connection setup as bridged though.

Figured I might as well ask an expert concidering you're around.

Being run from a virtual machine puts it in it's own "sandbox" that it's not allowed to play outside of. We used a lot of virtual machines for penetration testing (trying to hack into each others machines in labs) It will keep the underlying operating system safe, but the current statistic is that an unprotected/non-hardened web server will come under attack within 7 seconds of going online because of all the malware that exists only to crawl around the internet looking for servers to turn into zombies for botnets.

[MerinTB]

whtnyte-raernst wrote...

I've seen several spouting "Security 101" factoids and missing the major security bungles.
(...)
Backing up to another partition on the same drive is not a back up. Always backup to something external to your computer, whether it be a flash drive, external hard drive, CD/DVD...

So the bottom line...it doesn't matter WHERE your data is. If you want to keep it, back it up to something outside your computer. And unless you have a web server running from your computer, most hackers aren't interested in your computer )

Thank you - excellent post.

You are 100% correct, at least to my knowledge, and I acknowledge your credentials as higher than my own.



Personally, I never made the "security" argument - just the "OS is number one cause of HDD crashes" argument.

I left in some relevant points that I thought most people get wrong.  They feel that if they put a file in a separate folder on their C drive, or if they put it in a separate partition on their HDD, that it is safe.  It isn't.  You want to back something up, you need a separate copy on a separate device - USB flash, external USB drive, CD/DVD, ZIP disk... or ANOTHER INTERNAL HDD.  I have 4 in my main desktop, and have lost nothing in 8 years except the OS on ocassion. 
I write (used to alot more than now) and after a couple crashes high school and college time, I've become paranoid about my writing - I have it backed on on 2 HDD on my desktop, the HDD on my laptop, an external HDD, 2 USB flashes, a ZIP disc and a rewritable CD.  Yes, paranoid.

And you are right, for the most part you can recover most anything.  Looking back at the lost writing, I bought some expensive programs and even paid a professional at one point to try and do what I couldn't (a script I had worked on all summer was what I wanted - never got it back) - while you can recover much, sometimes and certain formats are harder to recover, and sometimes things are just gone if the HDD really physically fails.

---

Back more on topic -

I did say that there are good reasons for putting all like data, say computer game saves, in a similar area.  Just like there's are good reasons for installing all programs, say applications, in the same area.
But it is a step backward everytime that an OS (like MS's) automates more processes and takes away the options for users at the front end.  Especially since sometimes, like with this My Documents Save Games thing, it's not obvious when you install the game or play the game.
Everytime I install an application, it asks where I want it installed (with the default of C:\\Program Files poping in the address bar) and I switch the drive and directory to where my applications are installed.  Games go on a different drive and directory.
If they want to do this with Save Game directories, it should be a more obvious thing up front (Where would you like Music saved? Where would you like Games Saved?) in some obvious settings area of Control Panel or some such (not a right click on an icon - so now I have to right-click everything to learn about crap like "Run As Administartor") or when the game is installed it should ask "Do you want your Saved Games installed here?" like, when you uninstall most games, it askes if you want to uninstall saves as well.

Taking the option away at the front end, the defaulting without the up front option to change such decisions that have ALWAYS been in the hands of users before, and especially defaulting to the drive the OS is on, is my problem.

Not a problem?  Putting all saved games in one location.

I hope the distinction is clear.

[Dex1701]

Darpaek wrote...
You don't install Office to write a paper and then uninstall it afterwards.
You do for a video game. If you can't see the difference, we'll simply
have to disagree.

First of all, that isn't true for everybody or in every situation.  Second, you don't design software around what someone may or may not do.  This is the point that I'm trying to make.  The amount of time you expect someone to leave a piece of software installed can have no bearing on where you decide to store said software's data.  You have no idea how long a piece of software is going to be installed (still not sure what this has to do with where you'd store saved games, but...), so you design for the worst case, which is why it's safest to have a repository for it that is separated from the OS and programs installations and to have a separate repository for each user.  I've been a software developer for 13 years, and if I didn't think that way when I designed my software I'd be constantly revising it for different customers.

Darpaek wrote...
I'm a PC gamer with a strong Linux background.
C:\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ is my root. It includes Windows, Office, Adobe, and 15 gigs of
freespace for future "Windows Applications." D:\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ is for everything
else - particularly video games and porn.

I knew I could remap
my MyDocs, and I did a long time ago. As we've seen from this thread,
the average user isn't even aware this is possible - even the D:\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
drive gamers. I'm not happy with any default setting that screws with
my root. Plain and simple.

Ehm, right, but it has to be the default setting, because those same users that don't know they can remap Documents and Settings, Users, Program Data, Program Files, etc. are also going to be very confused if they're asked about different partitions during installation.  I'd like to believe they wouldn't, but I've heard enough people complain about the partitioning step of the Ubuntu install to know that they would.  A lot.

It's great that you know that it's better to split these things out into separate partitions, but that's never going to be the default setting until it can be safely automated, and that would be an impressive feat of process and social engineering.

It's a bad design to put application and user data alongside application libraries in the file system.  They need to be separate.   I'm not hearing any better suggestions that would work well for a layman than what MS has done.  If there is a better set of assumptions to make about the way a layman is going to use his/her computer, then please make some suggestions.  The defaults must be designed for someone that doesn't know what they're doing.  The rest of us can customize to our liking for the most part.

MerinTB wrote...
Taking the option away at the front end, the
defaulting without the up front option to change such decisions that
have ALWAYS been in the hands of users before, and especially
defaulting to the drive the OS is on, is my problem.

Not a problem?  Putting all saved games in one location.

I hope the distinction is clear.

In a perfect world, yes.  The problem is that when Windows creates a space for user data it needs to be off a common root folder so it can locate it.  For the convenience of the user Windows sets up security on the personal folders for a certain profile to help keep their data private.  You don't want data from various different profiles spread willy-nilly around the hard drive(s), right?  When you install Windows it assumes you only want to use a single partition for the entire install.  This is configurable, but not via the default Windows installation wizard...you need to create a custom installation.  This is not hard to do, and it's the solution I use.

It would be nice to have the option to specify a folder for the save game files, and some games will allow you to change it manually in an .ini file.  It'd be nice if they added it to the installation wizard, but it'd probably confuse some people.

Modifié par Dex1701, 16 décembre 2009 - 07:24 .

[MerinTB]

Dex1701 wrote...

It would be nice to have the option to specify a folder for the save game files, and some games will allow you to change it manually in an .ini file.  It'd be nice if they added it to the installation wizard, but it'd probably confuse some people.

Maybe confusing to people who don't understand what options are presented but feel like they should -
but that's what the (Recommended) next to default selections is for.

[Dex1701]

MerinTB wrote...

Dex1701 wrote...

It would be nice to have the option to specify a folder for the save game files, and some games will allow you to change it manually in an .ini file.  It'd be nice if they added it to the installation wizard, but it'd probably confuse some people.

Maybe confusing to people who don't understand what options are presented but feel like they should -
but that's what the (Recommended) next to default selections is for.

Agreed, but I'd personally rather see that choice being made when the OS is installed rather than each individual application.  Those are the decisions you want to make when you're setting up the OS for the first time and then not have to worry about (unless you want to) while you're actually using the computer.

Modifié par Dex1701, 16 décembre 2009 - 07:30 .

[whtnyte-raernst]

MerinTB wrote...

Maybe confusing to people who don't understand what options are presented but feel like they should -
but that's what the (Recommended) next to default selections is for.

There are a boat load of ways to customize Windows. Most of them are hidden or locked away where the average user will never find them. Why? Because even with MY level of training, I've royally screwed up my computer more times than I care to remember! But to someone like me, breaking the computer is half the fun because you learn more when things go wrong than when things go right.

75% of the people that will play this game, don't know, and don't care. They want to stick the DVD in and play just like it was a PS3.

Bottom line: Can you move the default location of "My Documents" or in Windows 7, the "Documents library," 
YES! (I believe several people already posted how)

Beyond that, you really don't want to mess around and need someone like me to come figure out what happened.

ETA: Okay, I know some of you are curious now. If you want to take a peek at the scarier side of customizing Windows, left click start, then right click on "Computer" or "My Computer" and left click manage.
Click on "Local Users and Groups" then in the right hand pane double click users. That's where you rename the built in Administrator and Guest accounts.
And that's as far as you should mess around in there )

Modifié par whtnyte-raernst, 16 décembre 2009 - 07:59 .

[Ibian]

So, lets talk backup. The only reliable method that doesn't take up physical space in your home is online backup. Anyone know some good free ones? I'm thinking 5 GB or more.



I tried Wuala, which gave me ~90 GB for free, but at the cost of losing the same amount from my local drive which was more than i could afford. They were also steadily making the program worse than it used to be so i don't see myself going back. Any other candidates out there?

[whtnyte-raernst]

Ibian wrote...

So, lets talk backup. The only reliable method that doesn't take up physical space in your home is online backup. Anyone know some good free ones? I'm thinking 5 GB or more.

I tried Wuala, which gave me ~90 GB for free, but at the cost of losing the same amount from my local drive which was more than i could afford. They were also steadily making the program worse than it used to be so i don't see myself going back. Any other candidates out there?

I would never trust someone else to secure my data!
For my money, I use a Seagate FreeAgent Go:
www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/external/freeagent/freeagent_go/#tTabContentSupport
They are tiny, about the size of a largish wallet and easily fit in your back pocket. It only uses a single USB cable, no external power supply and they come in sizes from 250gig to 1terabyte (NEVER TRUST YOUR DATA ON TERABYTE DRIVES)
They include software that makes backing up your data very simple.

[Ibian]

And what happens when your house burns down or your little backup device is stolen? Off-site storage is not optional if you want a safe backup.

[whtnyte-raernst]

Ibian wrote...

And what happens when your house burns down or your little backup device is stolen? Off-site storage is not optional if you want a safe backup.

I guess I learned too much about how the internet works and what lurks under the surface. I don't even allow email to be downloaded to my home computer. I have my own email server and always check in a web browser.

But personally, if I had data that critical, I'd have a fire proof safe and only remove the Seagate to backup, then put it back in. Nothing I have at home is that important. I just see too many reports of major online organizations being infiltrated to trust any online storage.

[Ibian]

*sigh* this is not even important. If you have data that nobody else should see, then obviously you will not want to use online storage. Does anyone slightly less paranoid have something to add?

[Seifz]

My gaming PC has three 1TB disks in a RAID5 array for redundancy. Every night, I back up all of my important documents (including saved games and my entire WoW installation!) to my file server, which is also running three 1TB disks in a RAID5 array. It's all automated, so I can't forget to do it, and the file server has no connected to the Internet. The chances of both arrays failing simultaneously are incredibly slim, so it's good enough for me. Much better than online storage!



Anyway, the MS bashing is quite humorous. How dare they standardize things like every other operating system has been doing for decades! Bad MS!

[bjdbwea]

He's right though, I wouldn't trust online backup methods either. Not only because you should care about your privacy, but also because you can't know it will reliable. Your data may be lost for whatever reason when you need it most. Make your own physical backup, keep it safe. If it's really that important, store it somewhere else (encrypted if necessary).

[Ibian]

Your own physical copy could be lost or break too. It's just one more, of many, ways to keep your data safe. I don't understand why some of you have such a problem with it. And i'm not here to defend it anyway, so if nobody is interested in my first post i'll just be moving along.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Seifz wrote...

My gaming PC has three 1TB disks in a RAID5 array for redundancy. Every night, I back up all of my important documents (including saved games and my entire WoW installation!) to my file server, which is also running three 1TB disks in a RAID5 array. It's all automated, so I can't forget to do it, and the file server has no connected to the Internet. The chances of both arrays failing simultaneously are incredibly slim, so it's good enough for me. Much better than online storage!

Anyway, the MS bashing is quite humorous. How dare they standardize things like every other operating system has been doing for decades! Bad MS!

I was looking for such information, because this seemed for me always the most secure way, when you have a PC that uses Internet and Gaming and Personal Data storage.
Where can i get install-specifications and infos for such fancy stuff?

[Seifz]

Uh... http://www.gentoo.org? I don't know how familiar you are with Linux. If it helps you any, my file server is running a hardened version of Gentoo Linux, the ext3 file system (it's slower than others, but it's stable), and I use the rsync protocol to do the backups.



The hardware is quite old. It's running an 1100MHz Athlon (T-bird, with the ceramic packaging!) and 256MB of RAM. The disks are user-grade Samsung 1TB discs that I got on sale from NewEgg and the controller is a four-port SATA II controller from Areca. Using older hardware allows me to keep the power consumption down, which allows me to use a cheaper UPS.



It doesn't have an Internet connection, but it does have an Ethernet connection to my home network. It's safe enough for what it is.

[whtnyte-raernst]

And I can see the eyes glazing over as they read that Seifz!

[Sarevok Anchev]

whtnyte-raernst wrote...

And I can see the eyes glazing over as they read that Seifz!

... and saying wtf?

Nay, i still want to use Windows. I thought about running games in a Boot-Camp on a highend Mac, but they arent made for highend graphic games...

What is enough -for me at least- , would be a pc with good quality parts and partitioning again between OS and
main usage programs+ data files.
Changing the "loop holes" like Admin name etc. seems a good idea(even when its unnerving...<_<)
The first tips about changing the place of the "My Documents" folder seems nice; only hope there will be no probs...

Maayyybeeee i will in some time scrap more knowledge about Linux, Unix and all this Number-spamming stuff
for better understanding ; its just not THAT interesting for me (and many other persons)  *g