155 réponses à ce sujet

[Darpaek]

Stronghand wrote...

Hold on now, if I might jump in here. When you, Microsoft or anyone in particular pays for my hardware, then they can feel free to put files wherever they feel like.  Until then, I prefer if I decide where I want my files. That goes for all software, not just DAO, but especially for non-critical software like games.

Amen.

This is my 'puter, not yours.  I put you there.  Don't move and don't leave the little directory I gave you.

I almost **** myself when I saw DA:O download some NVidia update during the install.  I was a hair's breadth away from uninstalling the game and throwing the DVD against the wall at that point.  I was furious!

I've been screaming at install screens for a decade, "NO!  I do NOT want to update DirectX!  Mine is up-to-date!  If it is not, put it in the system reqs and I will do it myself!"

Modifié par Darpaek, 16 décembre 2009 - 09:02 .

[whtnyte-raernst]

I'm joining with Seifz and am done with this topic.

Quite a few people have made years of training and experience available to you all free of charge and told you that "Yes, you CAN move the My Documents folder" and told you how. I'm sorry that we lack the ability to alter Dragon Age so you can do it with an in-game option.

[Dex1701]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Dex1701 wrote...

Ibian wrote...

whtnyte-raernst wrote...

Ibian wrote...

So just how many of the people who like how MS does things actually share their computer(s) with someone else with separate logins?

I smell hypocrisy.

It's not a matter of "like"
My first experience on a PC was in the good old days of early DOS. Microsoft has always been considered the "Evil Empire"

Could I set up a Linux machine and get the game running in it? Absolutely.
If I so desired, I have enough knowledge and equipment to build a cluster and have my very own supercomputer.
Why don't I?
I'm 47 years old, and partially disabled in workman's comp hell.
Sometimes, I just want to PLAY and have fun and forget all the evil things I have learned about computers and the internet.

That didn't answer the question. Do you share your personal computer(s) with others or not?

I do.  I typically have my profile, my girlfriend's profile, and a guest profile.  Like I said before, I just re-map the profile and program data folders to a separate drive than the one my OS and programs are on (two separate partitions...one for profiles and one for program data...this isn't necessary, though).  It works wonderfully.  Once you have it set up all you have to do is create an image of your OS and programs partition using drive imaging software (Acronis offers a free version of TrueImage that works great).  Then if you ever hose your Windows install all you have to do is restore the image to the OS and programs partition (leaving your user profiles and program data alone completely) and you're up and running again in 10-20 minutes.  Combine that with a periodic backup of your profiles and program data partition(s) and you're unlikely to ever be stuck with a broken OS or loss of data.

Honestly, it's the least technical solution of all that have been offered.  If you really hate using the user profile storage locations (which is what most OS's do....including most flavors of Linux and Unix), you can dig into the system registry and map things however you want.  I really don't see the point, though.  It's easier for most users to use the user profiles and allow the OS to manage permissions and such.

Uh... only reinstalling the OS-partition?
Doesnt the second partition become "desynced" or sth., so the connection isnt 100% between the both?

Nope.  If you re-map your profile and app data folders before you create the image there isn't anything out of sync.  You might end up orphaning some app data for programs that you installed after you created the image, but it will be "un-orphaned" as soon as you reinstall the program(s).  Outside of "knowing" where the profile folders are located in the file system the OS isn't "married" to anything that ends up there.  That's kinda the point of keeping them separate (well, one of them, anyway...the other big one is security).

Seifz wrote...
Anyway, the MS bashing is quite humorous. How
dare they standardize things like every other operating system has been
doing for decades! Bad MS!

Agreed.  MS does a lot of things wrong, but they've actually started doing a lot to correct some of the issues from previous versions of Windows in Vista and Win7.  I guess people just don't like change.

[bjdbwea]

Ibian wrote...

So just how many of the people who like how MS does things actually share their computer(s) with someone else with separate logins?

Yeah, and why not? But you're again missing one important: Security. Even someone who's the single user of his PC should have one Administrator and one user account to work/play with. If you're doing that, you already have the answer to this thread.

[Stronghand]

Seifz wrote...
You're free to do whatever you want with your hardware.  Nobody is forcing you to use Windows or Dragon Age: Origins.

Again, both BioWare and Microsoft give you the option of changing where data is stored.  That you fail to use these options is your own fault.

No, of course no one is forcing me, but good work missing the point (or ignoring it?).

As far as I'm aware, all Microsoft is allowing me to do is moving the "My Documents"-folder. That's not what I was asking for. I'm sure you can fiddle around in the registry as well, but that's way too much work for something this trivial.
And sure, I could change DAO's config-files, but you also seemed to ignore that I was talking about all software, not just DAO.
Really, it's not like it's the end of the world that I can't change where files are saved, even if you seem to read my reply like that. It's more of a minor annoyance. You sound like I personally insulted you or something.

whtnyte-raernst wrote...
I'm joining with Seifz and am done with this topic.

Quite a few people have made years of training and experience available to you all free of charge and told you that "Yes, you CAN move the My Documents folder" and told you how. I'm sorry that we lack the ability to alter Dragon Age so you can do it with an in-game option.

Didn't all the "I want to change the location of the "My Documents"-folder"-people leave a page back or so?


I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole "saveing all files in the same place is a good idea"-thing. I think I've said pretty much what I wanted to as well.

Modifié par Stronghand, 16 décembre 2009 - 09:25 .

[Illurim]

MerinTB wrote...

I've never used a Mac in my life either, so the simplest of functions with those would be something I didn't know.  Doesn't make me dumb, doesn't make those functions hard.

But you're point was you know what you're doing, not that you're new to it, so your above comment is entirely irrelevant and an attempt to save face. The fact is, I agree with your above comment, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You either know what you're doing, so it's entirely acceptable for me to find it odd that a person who allegedly knows what he's doing should already know these things, or you don't. Remember, you're the one that said you know what you're doing.

For twenty years I've not needed to double-check that game saves weren't being put somewhere vastly different than the directory and drive (or disc, going back to games saving on floppies) the game was installed on.  Forgive me if, after doing something a certain ways for decades that suddenly a new change threw me.

Welcome to change. You'd think after twenty years dealing with computers you'd be used to it. I mean, computers have changed an awful lot in the last 20 years. Really.

I have said it multiple times, but since you seem slow (and by slow I mean you admit here that you don't understand despite I and others saying it a few times now) - saving ANY IMPORTANT DATA on the same drive AS THE OS is a bad.  Very bad.  The OS, whether designed well or poorly (this isn't a dig at MS), is the number one cause of computer crashes, the number one piece of software likely to screw up your hard drive, as it is the one piece of software always running and always having to interact with everything.

Go read up about what "backups" are. You seem to be struggling with the concept. The fact is, it doesn't really matter where you store your data - if you back it up properly, which is what any tech savvy person would be doing, storage location is irrelevant. For example, I use My Documents, etc for storing a lot of my data. It's on my C:\\\\\\\\ drive. I have a D:\\\\\\\\ partition for Apps. They're all on a single raid volume though. If it fails, no biggy. Everything I care about is backed up to a separate hard drive outside my RAID. OS failure is irrelevant. Also, my RAID is far more likely to fail than the OS.

You seem to be saying "storing my data on a section of hardware where the OS is installed is bad because the OS might fail, so it shouldn't store it there".

I'm saying "hardware can fail, back it up so it doesn't matter if it fails, and by the way, storage location is irrelevant if you back it up properly."

In light of your "you know what you're doing" comments, do you see why you're amusing me yet?

I hope that wasn't too technical for you.  I am paid to give people this advice.

And that's just scary.

Modifié par Illurim, 16 décembre 2009 - 09:42 .

[Targonis1]

While those days are over for MOST people, there are many families out there that have one GOOD computer, and the other computers are there for things like web browsing and such.    You can get a computer with Intel graphics for a low price, but I wouldn't want to play any games on it.


[quote]montana_boy wrote...



[/quote]

"The 4 people on 1 computer example?  Pretty weak.  My family is nowhere near middle-class, let alone wealthy, and there are 3 PCs that get used and 2 PCs that could be fired up if need be.

The days of 1 PC per household are about as old as the one tv per household."

[/quote]
____________________________________________________

So true... two of us in my house... me and the little lady... 4 computers.  One for games and three for money.
[/quote]

[MerinTB]

The strawmen in this thread could form a hay-fever inducing army.

I am not saying that default locations are a bad thing.
I am not saying storing all your data in one place is a bad thing.
If either of those are your points of argument, I agree with you.

Every time someone defends the My Documents location for Saved Games by saying that storing data in one easy to find place is a good idea they are NOT ADDRESSING MY POINT, no the point of most of those who have a problem with this.

But with Illurim returning for another round of bashing and insulting, I'm done with the thread. Continue to argue against each other instead of listening to contrary view points. Reported and blocked, by the way.

Modifié par MerinTB, 16 décembre 2009 - 09:55 .

[Illurim]

MerinTB wrote...

I am not saying that default locations are a bad thing.
I am not saying storing all your data in one place is a bad thing.

Then why did you type words to the contrary in other posts? Go re-read your posts, you actualy did say the exact words to the contrary. I will quote you if you need me to.

If either of those are your points of argument, I agree with you.

Okay, now I'm truly confused...

Every time someone defends the My Documents location for Saved Games by saying that storing data in one easy to find place is a good idea they are NOT ADDRESSING MY POINT, no the point of most of those who have a problem with this.

Then what exactly is your point? I'm happy to discuss that if you can articulate it.

But with Illurim returning for another round of bashing and insulting, I'm done with the thread. Continue to argue against each other instead of listening to contrary view points. Reported and blocked, by the way.

I have not once bashed or insulted you, not once. You on the other hand have done so to me twice now and I have ignored it both times to focus on the discussion. Ho-hum.

[Seifz]

MerinTB wrote...

The strawmen in this thread could form a hay-fever inducing army.

I am not saying that default locations are a bad thing.
I am not saying storing all your data in one place is a bad thing.
If either of those are your points of argument, I agree with you.

Every time someone defends the My Documents location for Saved Games by saying that storing data in one easy to find place is a good idea they are NOT ADDRESSING MY POINT, no the point of most of those who have a problem with this.

But with Illurim returning for another round of bashing and insulting, I'm done with the thread. Continue to argue against each other instead of listening to contrary view points. Reported and blocked, by the way.

Yeah, I'm lost here.  What exactly is your point?  Are you mad that not every software installer offers you the option to change every directory that it uses while installing?

I guess we could always move to the process that a lot of *nix distributions are using these days.  You know,
./configure --prefix=/usr/local --installdir=/usr/local/games --<more options here>
make install

Understand that "stupid" people make up the majority of comptuer users.  They don't want more options.  Options scare them.  As a developer, you need to balance their needs along with the needs of the 5 people in this world that are mad becuase they have to edit a configuration file to change the game's save directory.

[Ibian]

bjdbwea wrote...

Ibian wrote...

So just how many of the people who like how MS does things actually share their computer(s) with someone else with separate logins?

Yeah, and why not? But you're again missing one important: Security. Even someone who's the single user of his PC should have one Administrator and one user account to work/play with. If you're doing that, you already have the answer to this thread.

Why? What possible use does that serve outside of easing some senseless paranoia?

Also, as someone else said, getting rid of everything when uninstalling games and programs is that much more annoying. Much better to have everything related to a given program in the same folder.

[Sarevok Anchev]

... If i would get a cent for every time i see the Laptop-Desktop(?!) of "normal" users spammed with

all kinds of stuff and a beeping Avira in th background....

[Illurim]

Ibian wrote...
Also, as someone else said, getting rid of everything when uninstalling games and programs is that much more annoying. Much better to have everything related to a given program in the same folder.

So, if that's your argument, why on earth would you want an uninstall program to automatically remove your saved games? I like to keep my saved games after uninstalling a game on the off-chance that in a few months if I decide to reinstall the game I can pick up at some point where I left off and take a divergent path without having to replay intro-level content. And they don't take much storage space.

Aside from that, I can't remember a game that I've played that's automatically removed my saved games. A few have asked, but none have ever done it automatically.

[Ibian]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

... If i would get a cent for every time i see the Laptop-Desktop(?!) of "normal" users spammed with
all kinds of stuff and a beeping Avira in th background....

Right. Normal users. Normal users won't set up multiple accounts for themselves. Paranoid techie people do that. Paranoid techie people also have the programs and common sense to avoid virus and malware so they don't need it in the first place. So again, what's the point if the only people who are going to do it don't really need it?

Modifié par Ibian, 16 décembre 2009 - 10:49 .

[Dex1701]

Stronghand wrote...
No, of course no one is forcing me, but good work missing the point (or ignoring it?).

As far as I'm aware, all Microsoft is allowing me to do is moving the "My Documents"-folder. That's not what I was asking for. I'm sure you can fiddle around in the registry as well, but that's way too much work for something this trivial.
And sure, I could change DAO's config-files, but you also seemed to ignore that I was talking about all software, not just DAO.
Really, it's not like it's the end of the world that I can't change where files are saved, even if you seem to read my reply like that. It's more of a minor annoyance. You sound like I personally insulted you or something.

Didn't all the "I want to change the location of the "My Documents"-folder"-people leave a page back or so?

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole "saveing all files in the same place is a good idea"-thing. I think I've said pretty much what I wanted to as well.

I totally get what you're saying.  Here's the issue as I see it:  Microsoft is trying to move to a security model that only allows applications write permissions to certain locations in the file system, and even then only to certain areas depending on the security permissions of the currently logged-in user.  This is a model that other OS's have been using for a long time, and it's high time that Windows started using it too.  In fact, Windows has had a very lax security model for a long time, which has done a heck of a lot to contribute to Windows's reputation as an insecure OS. 

The idea of only allowing applications to write to certain locations has advantages beyond just organization.  It helps to prevent viruses and other malware from being able to infect other executables and libraries in your system, it helps to prevent applications from changing data that may break another application, and generally contributes to making the OS more secure and stable.

The idea of user profiles is important in any OS that allows multiple users (i.e., nearly all OS's).  If you specify some random folder in your file system how does the application know how to separate data for different users?  How does it know how to set up security for this folder?  Sure, a "power user" could probably do all of this manually, but Windows isn't an OS just for "power users."

Darpaek wrote...

Stronghand wrote...

Hold
on now, if I might jump in here. When you, Microsoft or anyone in
particular pays for my hardware, then they can feel free to put files
wherever they feel like. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png Until
then, I prefer if I decide where I want my files. That goes for all
software, not just DAO, but especially for non-critical software like
games.

Amen.

This is my 'puter, not yours.  I put you there.  Don't move and don't leave the little directory I gave you.

I
almost **** myself when I saw DA:O download some NVidia update during
the install.  I was a hair's breadth away from uninstalling the game
and throwing the DVD against the wall at that point.  I was furious!

I've
been screaming at install screens for a decade, "NO!  I do NOT want to
update DirectX!  Mine is up-to-date!  If it is not, put it in the
system reqs and I will do it myself!"

I'm 100% with you on things like running DirectX and other system updates without asking me.  I'd prefer to be asked.  Then again, many users would prefer not to be because they don't understand what they're being asked about and would prefer it just be "taken care of" for them.  Many users would continue to use outdated versions of libraries and then come to the forums to complain when they had problems.

As far as the save locations are concerned, I still have to disagree.  An advanced user such as yourself can change global defaults for the location of the profile folders, but the profile folders are necessary (see my comments above).  I think that some of the nice folks in this thread are just ignoring some of the "big picture" concerns when it comes to system setup and administration.  The lack of consistency and management when it comes to how software uses the file system is a big part of why a lot of people have problems with their Windows installations.

[Dex1701]

Ibian wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Ibian wrote...

So just how many of the people who like how MS does things actually share their computer(s) with someone else with separate logins?

Yeah, and why not? But you're again missing one important: Security. Even someone who's the single user of his PC should have one Administrator and one user account to work/play with. If you're doing that, you already have the answer to this thread.

Why? What possible use does that serve outside of easing some senseless paranoia?

Also, as someone else said, getting rid of everything when uninstalling games and programs is that much more annoying. Much better to have everything related to a given program in the same folder.

Um...people running their OS day-to-day with administrator privelages is the single biggest security problem (by far) that Windows has.  That's not an exaggeration.  Why do you think that every single OS that's considered more secure than Windows makes admin privelages mostly off-limits unless you specifically log in as an admin user or enter a password to grant elevated permissions?

Besides, most games offer to delete saves when you uninstall them, so...

Modifié par Dex1701, 16 décembre 2009 - 10:56 .

[Ibian]

Illurim wrote...

Ibian wrote...
Also, as someone else said, getting rid of everything when uninstalling games and programs is that much more annoying. Much better to have everything related to a given program in the same folder.

So, if that's your argument, why on earth would you want an uninstall program to automatically remove your saved games? I like to keep my saved games after uninstalling a game on the off-chance that in a few months if I decide to reinstall the game I can pick up at some point where I left off and take a divergent path without having to replay intro-level content. And they don't take much storage space.

Aside from that, I can't remember a game that I've played that's automatically removed my saved games. A few have asked, but none have ever done it automatically.

That's your preference. Me, when i want a program gone, i want all of it gone. Some games ask if you want save games deleted, but almost no games or programs ever delete everything they should. There is always a folder or two left with a dozen useless files just cluttering the system. And now they are spread out over several places instead of being in one folder, so we have to go hunting for them.

And it's not just saved games. Other stuff is being saved outside of the install folder, config files and the like i guess, and who knows what else.

[Dex1701]

Ibian wrote...

Illurim wrote...

Ibian wrote...
Also, as someone else said, getting rid of everything when uninstalling games and programs is that much more annoying. Much better to have everything related to a given program in the same folder.

So, if that's your argument, why on earth would you want an uninstall program to automatically remove your saved games? I like to keep my saved games after uninstalling a game on the off-chance that in a few months if I decide to reinstall the game I can pick up at some point where I left off and take a divergent path without having to replay intro-level content. And they don't take much storage space.

Aside from that, I can't remember a game that I've played that's automatically removed my saved games. A few have asked, but none have ever done it automatically.

That's your preference. Me, when i want a program gone, i want all of it gone. Some games ask if you want save games deleted, but almost no games or programs ever delete everything they should. There is always a folder or two left with a dozen useless files just cluttering the system. And now they are spread out over several places instead of being in one folder, so we have to go hunting for them.

And it's not just saved games. Other stuff is being saved outside of the install folder, config files and the like i guess, and who knows what else.

So, I suppose it's pointless to try to explain to you why it's an absolutely terrible idea to store application binaries and resources in the same branch of the folder structure as user data and configuration, then?  Because it is.

Modifié par Dex1701, 16 décembre 2009 - 10:59 .

[bjdbwea]

Ibian wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Ibian wrote...

So just how many of the people who like how MS does things actually share their computer(s) with someone else with separate logins?

Yeah, and why not? But you're again missing one important: Security. Even someone who's the single user of his PC should have one Administrator and one user account to work/play with. If you're doing that, you already have the answer to this thread.

Why? What possible use does that serve outside of easing some senseless paranoia?

I guess you've just asked the question to slip in a little insult. But if not, you can find all the information why it matters on the internet. Or you could ask the OP. Chances are he wouldn't have had his problems with a virus, though that's of course assuming he'd been following other basic principles as well.

[Ibian]

Dex1701 wrote...

Ibian wrote...

Illurim wrote...

Ibian wrote...
Also, as someone else said, getting rid of everything when uninstalling games and programs is that much more annoying. Much better to have everything related to a given program in the same folder.

So, if that's your argument, why on earth would you want an uninstall program to automatically remove your saved games? I like to keep my saved games after uninstalling a game on the off-chance that in a few months if I decide to reinstall the game I can pick up at some point where I left off and take a divergent path without having to replay intro-level content. And they don't take much storage space.

Aside from that, I can't remember a game that I've played that's automatically removed my saved games. A few have asked, but none have ever done it automatically.

That's your preference. Me, when i want a program gone, i want all of it gone. Some games ask if you want save games deleted, but almost no games or programs ever delete everything they should. There is always a folder or two left with a dozen useless files just cluttering the system. And now they are spread out over several places instead of being in one folder, so we have to go hunting for them.

And it's not just saved games. Other stuff is being saved outside of the install folder, config files and the like i guess, and who knows what else.

So, I suppose it's pointless to try to explain to you why it's an absolutely terrible idea to store anything but the application binaries and resources themselves in the same branch of the folder structure as user data and configuration, then?  Because it is.

You made no effort to explain your position. Which makes that post a "i'm right because i say so neener neener" post.

That's not even an insult, just an observation that you might as well have posted a picture of a frenchman looking down his nose at me.

[Illurim]

Ibian wrote...
That's your preference. Me, when i want a program gone, i want all of it gone.

Fair enough. Don't you sometimes wnat to replay a game later on though and avoid all the relative tedium at the start? That's a rhetorical/philosophical question though, you don't need to answer it. I respect your point.

Some games ask if you want save games deleted, but almost no games or programs ever delete everything they should. There is always a folder or two left with a dozen useless files just cluttering the system. And now they are spread out over several places instead of being in one folder, so we have to go hunting for them.

Hmm, I have a couple of issues with this. Firstly, you're right - most programs don't remove everything. Secondly, having multiple locations isn't new. Most games/applications when you uninstalled would have files/folders left over not only in their install directory that you chose, but also in the system directory or other locations that they needed to use and didn't tell you about. That's pretty normal for any application that's sharing common .dlls or might be installing a .dll that might be used by other programs. You've always had to manually remove those, so my point is, none of this is new.

What's new is, Microsoft (and I'm no fan boy, believe me) are doing a good thing and trying to encourage uniformity for exactly the reason you're arguing for - to make it easier for you to know where to find those extraneous undeleted folders/files that might be shared by other programs.

You seem to be saying "When I want to uninstall something, I want it all gone without the trouble of having to find stuff all over the place and manually remove it."

I'm saying you've always had to manually remove stuff, but Microsoft is doing what you want and trying to make it easier for you.

[Dex1701]

Ibian wrote...

Dex1701 wrote...

Ibian wrote...

Illurim wrote...

Ibian wrote...
Also, as someone else said, getting rid of everything when uninstalling games and programs is that much more annoying. Much better to have everything related to a given program in the same folder.

So, if that's your argument, why on earth would you want an uninstall program to automatically remove your saved games? I like to keep my saved games after uninstalling a game on the off-chance that in a few months if I decide to reinstall the game I can pick up at some point where I left off and take a divergent path without having to replay intro-level content. And they don't take much storage space.

Aside from that, I can't remember a game that I've played that's automatically removed my saved games. A few have asked, but none have ever done it automatically.

That's your preference. Me, when i want a program gone, i want all of it gone. Some games ask if you want save games deleted, but almost no games or programs ever delete everything they should. There is always a folder or two left with a dozen useless files just cluttering the system. And now they are spread out over several places instead of being in one folder, so we have to go hunting for them.

And it's not just saved games. Other stuff is being saved outside of the install folder, config files and the like i guess, and who knows what else.

So, I suppose it's pointless to try to explain to you why it's an absolutely terrible idea to store anything but the application binaries and resources themselves in the same branch of the folder structure as user data and configuration, then?  Because it is.

You made no effort to explain your position. Which makes that post a "i'm right because i say so neener neener" post.

That's not even an insult, just an observation that you might as well have posted a picture of a frenchman looking down his nose at me.

I've actually given short explanations several times.  Beyond that I'm not going to give a dissertation on system administration or security here in this thread.  If you choose to think you know better than Microsoft, Linux designers, Unix designers, and a slew of people with years of software and system admin experience I don't mind a bit.

Modifié par Dex1701, 16 décembre 2009 - 11:02 .

[Ibian]

Illurim wrote...

Ibian wrote...
That's your preference. Me, when i want a program gone, i want all of it gone.

Fair enough. Don't you sometimes wnat to replay a game later on though and avoid all the relative tedium at the start? That's a rhetorical/philosophical question though, you don't need to answer it. I respect your point.

Sometimes, yes. And in those cases, i can simply move the savegame files on my own.

Illurim wrote...

Some games ask if you want save games deleted, but almost no games or programs ever delete everything they should. There is always a folder or two left with a dozen useless files just cluttering the system. And now they are spread out over several places instead of being in one folder, so we have to go hunting for them.

Hmm, I have a couple of issues with this. Firstly, you're right - most programs don't remove everything. Secondly, having multiple locations isn't new. Most games/applications when you uninstalled would have files/folders left over not only in their install directory that you chose, but also in the system directory or other locations that they needed to use and didn't tell you about. That's pretty normal for any application that's sharing common .dlls or might be installing a .dll that might be used by other programs. You've always had to manually remove those, so my point is, none of this is new.

True enough, but what used to be installed elsewhere only took up very little space. Nowadays, config files and saved games and all the other stuff can take up gigabytes.

Illurim wrote...
What's new is, Microsoft (and I'm no fan boy, believe me) are doing a good thing and trying to encourage uniformity for exactly the reason you're arguing for - to make it easier for you to know where to find those extraneous undeleted folders/files that might be shared by other programs.

You seem to be saying "When I want to uninstall something, I want it all gone without the trouble of having to find stuff all over the place and manually remove it."

I'm saying you've always had to manually remove stuff, but Microsoft is doing what you want and trying to make it easier for you.

It's not advertised well enough, and sometimes hidden too well. I'm seeing arguments that MS is trying to make things simpler. So make it simple. If soccer mom can't fully get rid of a game or program, it's not good enough.

[Stronghand]

Dex1701 wrote...

Stronghand wrote...
No, of course no one is forcing me, but good work missing the point (or ignoring it?).

As far as I'm aware, all Microsoft is allowing me to do is moving the "My Documents"-folder. That's not what I was asking for. I'm sure you can fiddle around in the registry as well, but that's way too much work for something this trivial.
And sure, I could change DAO's config-files, but you also seemed to ignore that I was talking about all software, not just DAO.
Really, it's not like it's the end of the world that I can't change where files are saved, even if you seem to read my reply like that. It's more of a minor annoyance. You sound like I personally insulted you or something.

Didn't all the "I want to change the location of the "My Documents"-folder"-people leave a page back or so?

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole "saveing all files in the same place is a good idea"-thing. I think I've said pretty much what I wanted to as well.

I totally get what you're saying.  Here's the issue as I see it:  Microsoft is trying to move to a security model that only allows applications write permissions to certain locations in the file system, and even then only to certain areas depending on the security permissions of the currently logged-in user.  This is a model that other OS's have been using for a long time, and it's high time that Windows started using it too.  In fact, Windows has had a very lax security model for a long time, which has done a heck of a lot to contribute to Windows's reputation as an insecure OS. 

The idea of only allowing applications to write to certain locations has advantages beyond just organization.  It helps to prevent viruses and other malware from being able to infect other executables and libraries in your system, it helps to prevent applications from changing data that may break another application, and generally contributes to making the OS more secure and stable.

The idea of user profiles is important in any OS that allows multiple users (i.e., nearly all OS's).  If you specify some random folder in your file system how does the application know how to separate data for different users?  How does it know how to set up security for this folder?  Sure, a "power user" could probably do all of this manually, but Windows isn't an OS just for "power users."


I'm 100% with you on things like running DirectX and other system updates without asking me.  I'd prefer to be asked.  Then again, many users would prefer not to be because they don't understand what they're being asked about and would prefer it just be "taken care of" for them.  Many users would continue to use outdated versions of libraries and then come to the forums to complain when they had problems.

As far as the save locations are concerned, I still have to disagree.  An advanced user such as yourself can change global defaults for the location of the profile folders, but the profile folders are necessary (see my comments above).  I think that some of the nice folks in this thread are just ignoring some of the "big picture" concerns when it comes to system setup and administration.  The lack of consistency and management when it comes to how software uses the file system is a big part of why a lot of people have problems with their Windows installations.

Someone who knows what he's talking about and manages to stay polite as well. Thanks.

And I agree that MS is moving in the right direction, from what I understand Win7 is a good improvement (I haven't got it at home myself yet, but when I'm buying my next computer that's what will be on it).
And it's not like I'm arguing that the whole "My Documents" is a bad idea, I use it myself for various things, I just wish it was a little simpler changeing what goes in there.
More security is usually good, as long as it's done the right way. Although I've personally never had my system get infected by a virus after nearly 20 years of using PCs (admittedly the first few years probably don't count considering my age back then), there are certainly plenty of them around. Not to mention all the other stuff floating around out there.

But we seem to be in agreement on most things, I mostly just wanted to give you a pat on the back for not going "I don't know you, but I'm sure I know a lot more than you do!"

[PSUHammer]

What I don't understand is why games use different folders. Some use "My Documents" and some use "My Games". I wish the OS would force developers into My Games or at least give you the option of where the game profile folders go. As it stands, half my games go into "My Documents" cluttering up that folder and half go to "My Games". Just stupid.