225 réponses à ce sujet

[Oakshire]

Think there is a saying...

People might not remember who you are, but they will remember how you made them feel.

Pretty sure Mass Effect had the most emotionally gripping game storyline I've ever experienced.

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

There was emotion in the ending plot?

Where?

Let's see...
To kill the reapers I have to kill the geth who I see as alive, and kill EDI who is my friend  who I help find her humanity.....

Oh, right there it is!

And...renedouche could've killed off the Geth to begin with and told EDI's she's machine not crew in ME2 and completely ignored her in ME3. (Though sadly if you dare talk to her you're forced into a friendship with her like everyone else on the ship. I miss ME1 and ME2 where you could talk without BFF FOREVER! taking root.)

So...where's that emotion again?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:06 .

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I have 6 Shepard. And not one ever been taken out of my hand in ME3. I played everysingle one of them to there character I made for them. If you using the "auto-dialoge "card on me then it's clear that the problem is that you were focusing too much on the auto-dialogue. It doesn't even direct what persona Shepard even has.

Lucky for you (no sarcasm) your experience =/= everyone else's. Don't pretend it does.

And the autodialogue doesn't direct Shepard's personality?!? 

WHAT?

For example: 

If my Shep's persona has him not being particularly friendly to character X and the autodialogue forces him to be friendly and buddy buddy to character X guess what? IT'S DIRECTING HIS PERSONALITY.

You know what...yeah NVM. Let's just leave it at your experience not equalling mine and that doesn't mean either of us are doing it wrong. Because clearly we're not going to agree on anything else.

.....If you not friend with that character...Why are you taking with them?

In ME2. My renagade Male Shepard hated Jacob. In ME3, with him I didn't even both to talk with him. The charaters in the game will always show you respect, it's up to you to bother to take it.
Liara can offer you her gift, you can turn it down.
Thane many be about to die but you hate him, don't go to his funeral and he dies on his own.
Don't like Samara, let her shoot her self....Kill her daughter while your at it if you want to be really evil.
Hate Miranda, don't give her the time of day...Watch get kil by Kia lang.

Don't confuse the character respecting your Shepard with Shepard Liking them.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:17 .

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

There was emotion in the ending plot?

Where?

Let's see...
To kill the reapers I have to kill the geth who I see as alive, and kill EDI who is my friend  who I help find her humanity.....

Oh, right there it is!

And...renedouche could've killed off the Geth to begin with and told EDI's she's machine not crew in ME2 and completely ignored her in ME3. (Though sadly if you dare talk to her you're forced into a friendship with her like everyone else on the ship. I miss ME1 and ME2 where you could talk without BFF FOREVER! taking root.)

So...where's that emotion again?

It's up to the player. As I said before, it's not forced. It up to you how the events effect you or your character hence being a role playing game.
If you renedoughe doesn't care, he is never forced to care.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:17 .

[khankar]

4stringwizard wrote...

One of the most common remarks on ME3's storyline is how emotionally poignant it is.  I agree it is, but that's not necessarily a good thing.  ME1 had its dark moments.  ME2 was dark, but not depressing. ME3 was the first game of the series that actually left me feeling depressed after playing through some parts.  This culminated in the (gasp!) ending which left users feeling more sad than victorious.  

I think Bioware hurt themselves by turning ME3 into a space tragedy, instead of keeping it what it used to be - a sci-fi adenture/space opera.  By going with the more "artistic" storyline, they took the plot of ME3 in a direction that didn't suit the trilogy.  Yes, I'm aware that the Reapers are attacking and it's not going to be a pretty picture.  But Bioware went way overboard with the "FEEL SAD, DAMNIT!!!" storytelling. 

I agree.

For me, ME3 just doesn't fit into the trilogy. The first two games made me feel like I'm playing through a great space adventure but the last one just left me depressed.

It seems like BW went out of its way to give us a "bitter-sweet" ending. Honestly I would be OK with a depressing ending(s) as long as there was one where my Shepard rides off into the sunset with Ashley...oh wait, that wasn't one of the endings.

[savionen]

dreman9999 wrote...
It's up to the player. As I said before,
it not forced. It up to you how the events effect you or your character
hence being a role playing game.
If you renedoughe doesn't care, he is never forced to care.

There's no neutral Shepard in ME3. You're forced into constant Paragon or Renegade choices. Most of the Paragon/Renegade choices boil down to do you agree or disagree, do you side with one faction or another. Do you support the refugee or do you support the security offer? Does this prisoner live or die?

I had 3 Shepards.
Pure Renegade, total ****.
Mostly Renegade, but does the right thing in the end. Tells the galaxy to DEAL WITH IT.
Paragon/Renegade 60/40, kinda neutral. Completionist with dialogue.

I couldn't really play a mostly renegade Shepard. There aren't many Paragon or Renegade options. I can't really investigate. Can't even really be much of a douche. You're either the hero that sides with one faction, or the hero that sides with another. You either give a slightly uplifting speech or a slightly angry speech. My pure-Renegade Shepard was straight up a villain in ME2, it's impossible to do it in ME3.

Even Renedouche Shepard is sad about the kid dying. All ME3 Shepards are the same Shepard with slight variations, instead of being fully fleshed out different characters who are thrust into the same situation.

Modifié par savionen, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:27 .

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...
.....If you not friend with that character...Why are you taking with them?

In ME2. My renagade Male Shepard hated Jacob. In ME3, with him I didn't even both to talk with him. The charaters in the game will always show you respect, it's up to you to bother to take it.
Liara can offer you her gift, you can turn it down.
Thane many be about to die but you hate him, don't go to his funeral and he dies on his own.
Don't like Samara, let her shoot her self....Kill her daughter while your at it.
Hate Miranda, don't give her the time of day...Watch get kil by Kia lang.

Don't confuse the character respecting your Shepard with Shepard Liking them.

Because autodialogue FORCES MY SHEP to. That's WHY!

Not to mention Jacob's dialogue isn't forced. The only dialogue that is pretty much consists of him saying what he's doing (that said I tend to tune Jacob out/kill him so I dunno.)

You are however forced to attempt to comfort her during the run to Thessia as well that "Liara" (in a horrible horrible longingly tone) when you first see her on Mars. (She also has this horrible tendency to barge into Shep's room).

And you keep listing characters that Shep's not forced to converse with. And Samara's autodialogue is more neutral than friendly if Shep picks the renegade options (and I love how her threat to kill him is completely IGNORED).

How about my Shep being forced to give Tali that rock then? Talk about her building a home on the homeworld even if he doesn't care or thought the Geth were in the right? Why is he forced to do that? Why does he always run up to Tali to save her from suicide? (NVM that he can shoot the **** out of Legion) Oh right. Because Shep's forced to be friendly to her (if she's alive. Only way to avoid this is to let her die on the SM).

Jack suffers from the same issue. My renedouche wouldn't let her punch him in the face but BW's Shep would. It's funny and fiesty! To avoid that I kill her off too.

I shouldn't be forced to kill off characters to avoid OOC actions for my Shep.

Why does my Shep go all  to killing the VS when he can be all *shrug* when killing Wrex. Oh wait that's right. Because canon Shepard cares about the VS on some level. There's no choice in that. You can choose if Shep cares some or ALOT  but Shep still cares about the VS.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:30 .

[Ryzaki]

savionen wrote...
There's no neutral Shepard in ME3. You're forced into constant Paragon or Renegade choices. Most of the Paragon/Renegade choices boil down to do you agree or disagree, do you side with one faction or another. Do you support the refugee or do you support the security offer? Does this prisoner live or die?

I had 3 Shepards.
Pure Renegade, total ****.
Mostly Renegade, but does the right thing in the end. Tells the galaxy to DEAL WITH IT.
Paragon/Renegade 60/40, kinda neutral. Completionist with dialogue.

I couldn't really play a mostly renegade Shepard. There aren't many Paragon or Renegade options. I can't really investigate. Can't even really be much of a douche. You're either the hero that sides with one faction, or the hero that sides with another. You either give a slightly uplifting speech or a slightly angry speech.

Even Renedouche Shepard is sad about the kid dying. All ME3 Shepards are the same Shepard with slight variations, instead of being fully fleshed out different characters who are thrust into the same situation.

Agreed. My renedouche got a labotomy. Renegade's not even funny to play anymore in ME3. He cares about people's feels too much. When most of my enjoyment of the character (for me at least) came from how damn callous he was.

[dreman9999]

khankar wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

One of the most common remarks on ME3's storyline is how emotionally poignant it is.  I agree it is, but that's not necessarily a good thing.  ME1 had its dark moments.  ME2 was dark, but not depressing. ME3 was the first game of the series that actually left me feeling depressed after playing through some parts.  This culminated in the (gasp!) ending which left users feeling more sad than victorious.  

I think Bioware hurt themselves by turning ME3 into a space tragedy, instead of keeping it what it used to be - a sci-fi adenture/space opera.  By going with the more "artistic" storyline, they took the plot of ME3 in a direction that didn't suit the trilogy.  Yes, I'm aware that the Reapers are attacking and it's not going to be a pretty picture.  But Bioware went way overboard with the "FEEL SAD, DAMNIT!!!" storytelling. 

I agree.

For me, ME3 just doesn't fit into the trilogy. The first two games made me feel like I'm playing through a great space adventure but the last one just left me depressed.

It seems like BW went out of its way to give us a "bitter-sweet" ending. Honestly I would be OK with a depressing ending(s) as long as there was one where my Shepard rides off into the sunset with Ashley...oh wait, that wasn't one of the endings.

The theme of ME was alway"What lenghts would you go to stop an unstoppable force." The very concept of it will have tragity in it for it's story. ME1and ME2 had load of tragity in it. 2 of back ground for Shepard were tragic beign that you had an option to be a sole suervivot or someone who lost all their family.
The entire concept in the game was to bring the player to choices that cause moral delemas. If this is the series concept, how is ME3 BEING TRAGIC A BAD THING?

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:52 .

[txgoldrush]

Han Shot First wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]ME3 has more story then ME1.

Agreed.

ME3 also has more and better character development. If you play Mass Effect 1 after playing Mass Effect 2 or Mass Effect 3, you'll notice that the character interactions are not as well done, and all the alien squaddies suffer to varying degrees from 'walking encyclopedia' syndrome. The character development and squadmate dialogue improved as the series progressed.

THIS...

Tali in ME1 was a "talking codex" with little character development.

Seriously, before ME2, Bioware actually SUCKED at character development, very little of the characters got developed properly.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I don't think the problem is that they were focusing on an emotional plot. The problem is that they got confused with the story they wanted to tell, they had a story with an emotional  plot, but they wanted to have an intellectual ending, and you can't do that you have to stick to one theme.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:41 .

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
.....If you not friend with that character...Why are you taking with them?

In ME2. My renagade Male Shepard hated Jacob. In ME3, with him I didn't even both to talk with him. The charaters in the game will always show you respect, it's up to you to bother to take it.
Liara can offer you her gift, you can turn it down.
Thane many be about to die but you hate him, don't go to his funeral and he dies on his own.
Don't like Samara, let her shoot her self....Kill her daughter while your at it.
Hate Miranda, don't give her the time of day...Watch get kil by Kia lang.

Don't confuse the character respecting your Shepard with Shepard Liking them.

Because autodialogue FORCES MY SHEP to. That's WHY!

Not to mention Jacob's dialogue isn't forced. The only dialogue that is pretty much consists of him saying what he's doing (that said I tend to tune Jacob out/kill him so I dunno.)

You are however forced to attempt to comfort her during the run to Thessia as well that "Liara" (in a horrible horrible longingly tone) when you first see her on Mars. (She also has this horrible tendency to barge into Shep's room).

And you keep listing characters that Shep's not forced to converse with. And Samara's autodialogue is more neutral than friendly if Shep picks the renegade options (and I love how her threat to kill him is completely IGNORED).

How about my Shep being forced to give Tali that rock then? Talk about her building a home on the homeworld even if he doesn't care or thought the Geth were in the right? Why is he forced to do that? Why does he always run up to Tali to save her from suicide? (NVM that he can shoot the **** out of Legion) Oh right. Because Shep's forced to be friendly to her (if she's alive. Only way to avoid this is to let her die on the SM).

Jack suffers from the same issue. My renedouche wouldn't let her punch him in the face but BW's Shep would. It's funny and fiesty! To avoid that I kill her off too.

I shouldn't be forced to kill off characters to avoid OOC actions for my Shep.

Why does my Shep go all  to killing the VS when he can be all *shrug* when killing Wrex. Oh wait that's right. Because canon Shepard cares about the VS on some level. There's no choice in that. You can choose if Shep cares some or ALOT  but Shep still cares about the VS.

No autodialoge doesn't force your character persona at all.
With liara you are not forced into her room to confert her. You can with ease go up to the galexy map and keep going on wit the game.
And no you not force to kill of character to not care. 
How would know what action you took would kill off characters other then you literaly planning to back stab them

Added with tali, if you didn't care about her, you would not even bother with her trial in ME2 or picking her up in me2.
 If you didn;t care about Jack, then you should of done her loyaly mission IN me2.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:44 .

[dreman9999]

DinoSteve wrote...

I don't think the problem is that they were focusing on an emotional plot. The problem is that they got confused with the story they wanted to tell, they had a story with an emotional  plot, but they wanted to have an intellectual ending, and you can't do that you have to stick to one theme.

No, the problem is that they did the ending baddly the first time and no matter how they try and fix it no one will ever forgive them.

[Ryzaki]

/facepalms

A. Someone doesn't have to be loyal to survive ME2.

B. You can use people as resources without giving a damn about them as a person.

So yes if you happened to let them live (because you saw them as useful and you weren't incompetent) yes you're forced to be BFFs with them (not to mention the VS isn't even a choice the others at least if push comes to shove (save Liara) you can kill them off to avoid it. Even if it's OOC for your Shep to get them killed).

So please take that autodialogue doesn't force crap somewhere else.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:52 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I never said it wasn't bad, I'm only saying what I think happened

[dreman9999]

savionen wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
It's up to the player. As I said before,
it not forced. It up to you how the events effect you or your character
hence being a role playing game.
If you renedoughe doesn't care, he is never forced to care.

There's no neutral Shepard in ME3. You're forced into constant Paragon or Renegade choices. Most of the Paragon/Renegade choices boil down to do you agree or disagree, do you side with one faction or another. Do you support the refugee or do you support the security offer? Does this prisoner live or die?

I had 3 Shepards.
Pure Renegade, total ****.
Mostly Renegade, but does the right thing in the end. Tells the galaxy to DEAL WITH IT.
Paragon/Renegade 60/40, kinda neutral. Completionist with dialogue.

I couldn't really play a mostly renegade Shepard. There aren't many Paragon or Renegade options. I can't really investigate. Can't even really be much of a douche. You're either the hero that sides with one faction, or the hero that sides with another. You either give a slightly uplifting speech or a slightly angry speech. My pure-Renegade Shepard was straight up a villain in ME2, it's impossible to do it in ME3.

Even Renedouche Shepard is sad about the kid dying. All ME3 Shepards are the same Shepard with slight variations, instead of being fully fleshed out different characters who are thrust into the same situation.

Nuetrality is not an emotion, it's a beleif and concept  that can't be labled. You confusing nuetrality with indifference. 
Those oare not the same concept. A paragon or renagade have strong nuetral beliefs and be paragon or reneage.
It's the same concept of a neutral character being able to do both good and evil things.

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

/facepalms

A. Someone doesn't have to be loyal to survive ME2.

B. You can use people as resources without giving a damn about them as a person.

So yes if you happened to let them live (because you saw them as useful and you weren't incompetent) yes you're forced to be BFFs with them (not to mention the VS isn't even a choice.)

So please take that autodialogue doesn't force crap somewhere else.

1. I know that why I said you can also op to not pick her up as well.
2. Yes, but what does that have anything to do with the characters? Have we seen what an unloyal Tali is like in ME3 YET?

[naddaya]

txgoldrush wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]ME3 has more story then ME1.

Agreed.

ME3 also has more and better character development. If you play Mass Effect 1 after playing Mass Effect 2 or Mass Effect 3, you'll notice that the character interactions are not as well done, and all the alien squaddies suffer to varying degrees from 'walking encyclopedia' syndrome. The character development and squadmate dialogue improved as the series progressed.

THIS...

Tali in ME1 was a "talking codex" with little character development.

Seriously, before ME2, Bioware actually SUCKED at character development, very little of the characters got developed properly.

I liked how Wrex opened up. And Kaidan and Ash were fine. But yeah, I agree. I didn't like the story in ME2 but the characters were definitely developed better.

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

/facepalms

A. Someone doesn't have to be loyal to survive ME2.

B. You can use people as resources without giving a damn about them as a person.

So yes if you happened to let them live (because you saw them as useful and you weren't incompetent) yes you're forced to be BFFs with them (not to mention the VS isn't even a choice.)

So please take that autodialogue doesn't force crap somewhere else.

1. I know that why I said you can also op to not pick her up as well.
2. Yes, but what does that have anything to do with the characters? Have we seen what an unloyal Tali is like in ME3 YET?

Which again is forcing my Shep to be OOC in one game to avoid being OOC in another. Still get OOC and it doesn't stop the problem of Shep being forced to be friendly to her in the first place. It is not a choice. It doesn't give a damn about how your Shepard treated her before. He's always forced to be nice.

I had a disloyal Tali. Exactly the same pretty much. Shep's still friendly, she's still friendly. I think she has some comment of eventually realizing Shep wasn't trying to be cruel or some such. Just makes peace harder to achieve. (Not sure if I even could get peace. I usually side with the Geth anyway so I didn't save Koris.)

Canon Shepard didn't give a damn how my Shep felt in ME1 and ME2. He bowlingball wrecked that up.

The sad thing is most of this could've been avoided by making those friendshippy scenes optional a renegade interrupt where Shep skips all that dialogue and goes "Let's do what we came here for." would've sufficed.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:56 .

[dreman9999]

m_k wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]ME3 has more story then ME1.

Agreed.

ME3 also has more and better character development. If you play Mass Effect 1 after playing Mass Effect 2 or Mass Effect 3, you'll notice that the character interactions are not as well done, and all the alien squaddies suffer to varying degrees from 'walking encyclopedia' syndrome. The character development and squadmate dialogue improved as the series progressed.

THIS...

Tali in ME1 was a "talking codex" with little character development.

Seriously, before ME2, Bioware actually SUCKED at character development, very little of the characters got developed properly.

I liked how Wrex opened up. And Kaidan and Ash were fine. But yeah, I agree. I didn't like the story in ME2 but the characters were definitely developed better.

Mass effect 3 made those 3 characters even more emotional. Just see a Wrex when you destroy the genophage and tell him you not sorry. It changes the tone of the tuchancka Mission completly.

[savionen]

dreman9999 wrote...
Nuetrality is not an emotion, it's a beleif and concept  that can't be labled. You confusing nuetrality with indifference. 
Those oare not the same concept. A paragon or renagade have strong nuetral beliefs and be paragon or reneage.
It's the same concept of a neutral character being able to do both good and evil things.

In terms of neutrality my point was that you couldn't be indifferent in conversations. You're either the angry serious hero or you're positive serious hero. There's literally nothing else in ME3.

My renegade Shepards would not really care that the kid died. One killed plenty of innocent people already, he was brutal. He. Would. Not. Care. The other was Renegade enough and had seen so much battle he wouldn't really care, either. Your Shepard is forced to care.

Modifié par savionen, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:56 .

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

/facepalms

A. Someone doesn't have to be loyal to survive ME2.

B. You can use people as resources without giving a damn about them as a person.

So yes if you happened to let them live (because you saw them as useful and you weren't incompetent) yes you're forced to be BFFs with them (not to mention the VS isn't even a choice.)

So please take that autodialogue doesn't force crap somewhere else.

1. I know that why I said you can also op to not pick her up as well.
2. Yes, but what does that have anything to do with the characters? Have we seen what an unloyal Tali is like in ME3 YET?

Which again is forcing my Shep to be OOC in one game to avoid being OOC in another. Still get OOC and it doesn't stop the problem of Shep being forced to be friendly to her in the first place.

I had a disloyal Tali. Exactly the same pretty much. Shep's still friendly, she's still friendly. I think she has some comment of eventually realizing Shep wasn't trying to be cruel or some such. Just makes peace harder to achieve. (Not sure if I even could get peace. I usually side with the Geth anyway so I didn't save Koris.)

No, it does not.
How is Shepard to know that Tali would die if he does get her for the suicide mission? How is ignorace crualty?

[dreman9999]

savionen wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Nuetrality is not an emotion, it's a beleif and concept  that can't be labled. You confusing nuetrality with indifference. 
Those oare not the same concept. A paragon or renagade have strong nuetral beliefs and be paragon or reneage.
It's the same concept of a neutral character being able to do both good and evil things.

In terms of neutrality my point was that you couldn't be indifferent in conversations. You're either the angry serious hero or you're positive serious hero. There's literally nothing else in ME3.

But that not a problem. Why is not being indiffent  a problem in a game that makes you pick choices?

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:59 .

[txgoldrush]

m_k wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]ME3 has more story then ME1.

Agreed.

ME3 also has more and better character development. If you play Mass Effect 1 after playing Mass Effect 2 or Mass Effect 3, you'll notice that the character interactions are not as well done, and all the alien squaddies suffer to varying degrees from 'walking encyclopedia' syndrome. The character development and squadmate dialogue improved as the series progressed.

THIS...

Tali in ME1 was a "talking codex" with little character development.

Seriously, before ME2, Bioware actually SUCKED at character development, very little of the characters got developed properly.

I liked how Wrex opened up. And Kaidan and Ash were fine. But yeah, I agree. I didn't like the story in ME2 but the characters were definitely developed better.

Wrex is an exception, he got character development in ME1.....too bad all the other characters didn't get much.

No wonder why they were developed off screen in between ME1 and ME2.

[babymoon]

For me personally, ME3 was one of the most emotionally gripping games I've ever played, and I thought it worked quite well *shrugs*.