225 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

What's really mindboggling is that Shep broods over Starbrat but not his mother if he has the Spacer Origin. Really the mind boggles. 

And ugh Thessia. Especially jarring since the Asari secretive crap dragged the war out longer than necessary. Why Shepard has no option to be WTF to the councilor blows.

1.That's up to the player to brood over Shep's Mom. And both my spacers did, especialy during the conversation with Garrus when he talked about his family.

2. The thing Shep was broding over ranges for the fall of Thessia to LOSSING INFO ON THE LAST PEICE OF THE CRUCIBLE....

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:16 .

[Forbry]

Before the EC: no, after the EC: yes.

[dreman9999]

m_k wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

m_k wrote...

savionen wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

m_k wrote...

Deepening emotions in the game wasn't a bad thing. Making them forced was. As many others, I didn't like being forced to like certain characters and feel bad about things I didn't give a **** about.

When was it forced?

How about for the 50th time that Shepard obsesses over the dead kid but the audience doesn't give a ****.

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

Again, with the dreams their is the option in th eleft hand corner to pick if you don;t care. 
And with Thessia, the major downer of it was losing the last peice of the thing that will stop the reapers.

With the dreams.. what?
And you apologize to the matriarch when she was the first to blame for keeping the information secret and underestimating the reaper threat.

1. The only time your Shepard broods over the kid in based from the dreams. You only get a few times to take about the kid and it's optional.  So , no it's not forced.
2. The apology was for not getting the info on the final peice of the crucible.

[naddaya]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

What's really mindboggling is that Shep broods over Starbrat but not his mother if he has the Spacer Origin. Really the mind boggles. 

And ugh Thessia. Especially jarring since the Asari secretive crap dragged the war out longer than necessary. Why Shepard has no option to be WTF to the councilor blows.

1.That's up to the player to brood over Shep's Mom. And both my spacer did, especialy during the conversation with Garrus when he talked about his family.

2. The thing Shep was broding over ranges for the fall of Thessia to LOSSING INFO ON THE LAST PEICE OF THE CRUCIBLE....

1. And that was good because we had a choice. We didn't with starbrat. EDIT: Shepard looked CLEARLY sad when the kid died. He recurred in the dreams, he had an impact. I wouldn't have cared. It made Shepard feel detached. She was ruthless in the previous two games, it wasn't something I expected to come out of the blue.
2. And is forced to apologize to the councilor, big deal. This is canon paragonization (is that even a word?)

Modifié par m_k, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:17 .

[Ryzaki]

m_k wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

What's really mindboggling is that Shep broods over Starbrat but not his mother if he has the Spacer Origin. Really the mind boggles. 

And ugh Thessia. Especially jarring since the Asari secretive crap dragged the war out longer than necessary. Why Shepard has no option to be WTF to the councilor blows.

Pretty much what I thought
And why the hell am I forced to care about Earth that much? I was a colonist. I'm fighting for the whole galaxy, not humanity.

That and why my Shep has to be alliance golden boy after they pretty much throw him under the bus. <_< Only person that stops him from being on the chopping block is Anderson. BS.

Worse BW lied and said you could RP Shep as not being happy about being back with the alliance. I just...UGH.

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

What's really mindboggling is that Shep broods over Starbrat but not his mother if he has the Spacer Origin. Really the mind boggles. 

And ugh Thessia. Especially jarring since the Asari secretive crap dragged the war out longer than necessary. Why Shepard has no option to be WTF to the councilor blows.

1.That's up to the player to brood over Shep's Mom. And both my spacers did, especialy during the conversation with Garrus when he talked about his family.

2. The thing Shep was broding over ranges for the fall of Thessia to LOSSING INFO ON THE LAST PEICE OF THE CRUCIBLE....

Yes it's optional! unlike those damn dreams with starbrat. (Not to mention it's not really brooding. Shep doesn't say anything until Garrus does and it's pretty much (hilariously enough) Shep asking about Garrus family. Garrus go bleh platitudes and then asking about Shep's family. Shep says he doesn't know...and Garrus awkwardly offers said bleh platitudes. )

As for 2. Which he already got out of his system by pinpointing the Cerberus location. Joker's joke was an attempt at levity. Some Shep's shockingly enough would've recognized that! That's the whole point of dialogue OPTIONS.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:21 .

[dreman9999]

m_k wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

What's really mindboggling is that Shep broods over Starbrat but not his mother if he has the Spacer Origin. Really the mind boggles. 

And ugh Thessia. Especially jarring since the Asari secretive crap dragged the war out longer than necessary. Why Shepard has no option to be WTF to the councilor blows.

1.That's up to the player to brood over Shep's Mom. And both my spacer did, especialy during the conversation with Garrus when he talked about his family.

2. The thing Shep was broding over ranges for the fall of Thessia to LOSSING INFO ON THE LAST PEICE OF THE CRUCIBLE....

1. And that was good because we had a choice. We didn't with starbrat.
2. And is forced to apologize to the councilor, big deal.

1. Agian, bottom left hand corner option. I think you losing a peice of your retna if you can't clearly see it.
2. The apology is for not getting the info on the last peice of the curcible. 

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

What's really mindboggling is that Shep broods over Starbrat but not his mother if he has the Spacer Origin. Really the mind boggles. 

And ugh Thessia. Especially jarring since the Asari secretive crap dragged the war out longer than necessary. Why Shepard has no option to be WTF to the councilor blows.

1.That's up to the player to brood over Shep's Mom. And both my spacers did, especialy during the conversation with Garrus when he talked about his family.

2. The thing Shep was broding over ranges for the fall of Thessia to LOSSING INFO ON THE LAST PEICE OF THE CRUCIBLE....

Yes it's optional! unlike those damn dreams with starbrat. (Not to mention it's not really brooding. Shep doesn't say anything until Garrus does and it's pretty much (hilariously enough) Shep asking about Garrus family. Garrus go bleh platitudes and then asking about Shep's family. Shep says he doesn't know...and Garrus awkwardly offers said bleh platitudes. )

Agein, the dreams are events. The events that happen are not optional for the player to choose.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:23 .

[Ryzaki]

It's not our fault if you can't see the difference in Shep bottling up emotions (and yes Garrus even calls him out on this (along with others actually) ) and Shep never feeling those emotions in the first place.

The dream is a nightmare. You get repetitive nightmares from insecruties and fears. Those are emotions. You pretending the nightmares are completely disasscoiated from emotions is ridiculous. If it was one nightmare sure it might be a fluk. But it's CONSTANT and it's all about the EXACT SAME SUBJECT. You don't constantly have the same nightmare without their being a physical or psychological cause. The human brain doesn't work that way.

And that apology was ridiculous. The Asari hadn't done their part from nearly the beginning. They refused to join the summit and then they hid the Beacon until they realized they were going to be screwed over next. Pure selfishness and greed.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:25 .

[naddaya]

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

m_k wrote...

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

What's really mindboggling is that Shep broods over Starbrat but not his mother if he has the Spacer Origin. Really the mind boggles. 

And ugh Thessia. Especially jarring since the Asari secretive crap dragged the war out longer than necessary. Why Shepard has no option to be WTF to the councilor blows.

Pretty much what I thought
And why the hell am I forced to care about Earth that much? I was a colonist. I'm fighting for the whole galaxy, not humanity.

That and why my Shep has to be alliance golden boy after they pretty much throw him under the bus. <_< Only person that stops him from being on the chopping block is Anderson. BS.

Worse BW lied and said you could RP Shep as not being happy about being back with the alliance. I just...UGH.

Yes! I would never have accepted to submit to the alliance, have a trial and hand over my ship in the first place. Being a Spectre meant NOTHING!

@dreman -  I know there's an option to say you don't care about the dreams or something like that. That doesn't invalidate the kicked-puppy look Shep has when leaving Earth, nor the recurrent dreams. I know we can't control them, but they annoyed me. And I know it's because of losing the info, but why should I apologize to the counciler when she kept the information from me?

Modifié par m_k, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:31 .

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

It's not our fault if you can't see the difference in Shep bottling up emotions (and yes Garrus even calls him out on this (along with others actually) ) and Shep never feeling those emotions in the first place.

The dream is a nightmare. You get repetivie nightmares from insecruties and fears. Those are emotions. You pretending the nightmares are completely disasscoiated from emotions is ridiculous.

And that apology was ridiculous. The Asari hadn't done their part from nearly the beginning. They refused to join the summit and then they hid the Beacon until they realized they were going to be screwed over next. Pure selfishness and greed.

Dreams are not emotions.
If you still don't get it. I'll post a defination. Dreams can be effected by emotions and/or events. What we dream about we cannot choose, ever.....
If you don't care about the dreams, you ignore them. Just like real life, you as a person after having a bad dream have the option to ignore it.
Same concept with this. Say the dreams are bad becauce they are force undermind the very concept of an rpg, to force events on the player to solve, react to, and get through. The Player never chooses what events he has to deal with but they are open to how they solve the events.

[christrek1982]

to dark with no upshot I don't mind dark but by the end I found myself so drained and the shep kill herself I hear the EC make this better but I've not been able to put myself through it again a second time.

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...
Dreams are not emotions.
If you still don't get it. I'll post a defination. Dreams can be effected by emotions and/or events. What we dream about we cannot choose, ever.....
If you don't care about the dreams, you ignore them. Just like real life, you as a person after having a bad dream have the option to ignore it.
Same concept with this. Say the dreams are bad becauce they are force undermind the very concept of an rpg, to force events on the player to solve, react to, and get through. The Player never chooses what events he has to deal with but they are open to how they solve the events.

NIGHTMARES.

IN PARTICULAR REOCCURRING NIGHTMARES ABOUT THE SAME SUBJECT.

ARE INFLUENCED BY OUR EMOTIONS. LIKE FEAR AND INSECURITY.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? 

THE DREAMS ARE A SYMPTOM OF SHEP'S FORCED EMOTIONS. HIS FORCED CHARACTERIZATION.

SEE?

IS IT CLEAR?

DO I NEED TO SAY IT AGAIN LOUDER AND IN BOLD? 

IGNORING THE NIGHTMARES DOESN'T MEAN THEY DIDN'T OCCUR OR THAT SHEPARD WASN'T EFFECTED BY THEM.

MERELY THAT HE "BRUSHED" IT OFF.

YOU CAN BRUSH OFF PAIN OF SOMEONE'S DEATH. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY. YOU JUST DECIDED TO FOCUS ON SOMETHING ELSE.

SHEP STILL HAS EMOTIONS THAT CAUSE HIM/HER TO REPEATEDLY HAVE THAT STUPID DREAM.

THOSE EMOTIONS ARE FORCED THUS THE DREAMS ARE FORCED AND ALL OF IT IS A SIGN OF BIOWARE'S CANON SHEP FORCED CHARACTERIZATION.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2012 - 10:37 .

[JamieCOTC]

timj2011 wrote...

I like the fact that they took a chance with it

This, but in the end I think they just watched too much BSG.

[HellbirdIV]

They tried very hard to make the game emotional and most of the time failed miserably. My reaction to Mordin's and Thane's death? "Oh god NO! D:"

But my reaction to Miranda's death? "Wait what? LOL! That's it? What the hell was the point of that?! Slap some Medi-gel on that **** and stop whining, Shepard!"

What about Thessia? Every single time you saw asari die it was like the game DEMANDED that you feel bad because... I dunno, because it's women dying? I love asari but come on, I know when I'm being manipulated and I absolutely do not care for it.

And I'm not even going to start about the stupid dream sequences that ONLY MAKE SENSE if Shepard is being indoctrinated (So, assuming that the EC = IT is wrong, then the dreams are complete and utter garbage.) and the fu*king child I had absolutely no emotional connection to...

[ThatDancingTurian]

4stringwizard wrote...

One of the most common remarks on ME3's storyline is how emotionally poignant it is.  I agree it is, but that's not necessarily a good thing.  ME1 had its dark moments.  ME2 was dark, but not depressing. ME3 was the first game of the series that actually left me feeling depressed after playing through some parts.  This culminated in the (gasp!) ending which left users feeling more sad than victorious.  

I think Bioware hurt themselves by turning ME3 into a space tragedy, instead of keeping it what it used to be - a sci-fi adenture/space opera.  By going with the more "artistic" storyline, they took the plot of ME3 in a direction that didn't suit the trilogy.  Yes, I'm aware that the Reapers are attacking and it's not going to be a pretty picture.  But Bioware went way overboard with the "FEEL SAD, DAMNIT!!!" storytelling. 

I agree. It didn't help for me that a lot of the 'sad' parts and attempts to move me fell flat and felt like heavy-handed emotional manipulation. Mordin's death, Thane's prayer, EDI's Synthesis speech, all of them made me roll my eyes at how hard they were trying to force me to feel. Legion's death is the only one that really got me, and in the end I resent it because in hindsight it's just so contrived. I wish they'd focused on good writing and fewer ploys, let the power of the moment build from it being a great moment, not from sappy music and artistic shots and flowery dialogue.

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Dreams are not emotions.
If you still don't get it. I'll post a defination. Dreams can be effected by emotions and/or events. What we dream about we cannot choose, ever.....
If you don't care about the dreams, you ignore them. Just like real life, you as a person after having a bad dream have the option to ignore it.
Same concept with this. Say the dreams are bad becauce they are force undermind the very concept of an rpg, to force events on the player to solve, react to, and get through. The Player never chooses what events he has to deal with but they are open to how they solve the events.

NIGHTMARES.

IN PARTICULAR REOCCURRING NIGHTMARES ABOUT THE SAME SUBJECT.

ARE INFLUENCED BY OUR EMOTIONS. LIKE FEAR AND INSECURITY.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? 

THE DREAMS ARE A SYMPTOM OF SHEP'S FORCED EMOTIONS. HIS FORCED CHARACTERIZATION.

SEE?

IS IT CLEAR?

DO I NEED TO SAY IT AGAIN LOUDER AND IN BOLD? 

IGNORING THE NIGHTMARES DOESN'T MEAN THEY DIDN'T OCCUR OR THAT SHEPARD WASN'T EFFECTED BY THEM.

MERELY THAT HE "BRUSHED" IT OFF.

YOU CAN BRUSH OFF PAIN OF SOMEONE'S DEATH. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE PAIN GO AWAY. YOU JUST DECIDED TO FOCUS ON SOMETHING ELSE.

SHEP STILL HAS EMOTIONS THAT CAUSE HIM/HER TO REPEATEDLY HAVE THAT STUPID DREAM.

THOSE EMOTIONS ARE FORCED THUS THE DREAMS ARE FORCED AND ALL OF IT IS A SIGN OF BIOWARE'S CANON SHEP FORCED CHARACTERIZATION.

Again.
Matter not.
Is an event.
In rpgs, the player doesn't dictate what events they go throught. 
They just control how they deal with the events.

[Ryzaki]

LMAO

Yeah I'm really done. Point. Completely and utterly missing it.

[naddaya]

Ryzaki wrote...

LMAO

Yeah I'm really done. Point. Completely and utterly missing it.

I think I'm gonna eat some ice-cream, quietly weep for humanity and leave this thread alone for a while.

[Apocaleepse360]

txgoldrush wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

m_k wrote...

savionen wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

m_k wrote...

Deepening emotions in the game wasn't a bad thing. Making them forced was. As many others, I didn't like being forced to like certain characters and feel bad about things I didn't give a **** about.

When was it forced?

How about for the 50th time that Shepard obsesses over the dead kid but the audience doesn't give a ****.

This. And Thessia. And all the fuss about Earth. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not ecstatic over Earth getting destroyed, but I don't deem it more important than - say - Palaven.

Again, with the dreams their is the option in th eleft hand corner to pick if you don;t care. 
And with Thessia, the major downer of it was losing the last peice of the thing that will stop the reapers.

People just want to ignore the fact that you can bury your dreams and not tlak about them.....

It's not about ignoring the dreams. It's the dreams. They are the issue. As I've said before, the dreams do not make any sense whatsoever for my character since he has seen a lot of crap that makes seeing a child get killed look like sunshine and rainbows. He seen his family and friends get enslaved on his homeworld. He witnessed the death of his entire squad from a Thresher Maw attack. Hell, let's go to more recent events, when he had to sacrifice one of his own squadmates on Virmire! Why on Earth would he be dreaming about this one kid that he doesn't know?

Oh yeah, because of BioWare's precious Starkid.

Modifié par Apocaleepse360, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:02 .

[dreman9999]

Ryzaki wrote...

LMAO

Yeah I'm really done. Point. Completely and utterly missing it.

If you not seeing that the dreams are an event in the game. Your missing it.

[Apocaleepse360]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

LMAO

Yeah I'm really done. Point. Completely and utterly missing it.

If you not seeing that the dreams are an event in the game. Your missing it.

The only event I'm seeing is that later on some holographic kid is going to come along and give me three magical options. That's the ONLY point I see in the dreams. BioWare's stupid little Starkid that should have never even existed. Oh and Shepard going all emotional over just one kid when he/she could have potentially have seen more crap in his/her life.

Modifié par Apocaleepse360, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:08 .

[txgoldrush]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

LMAO

Yeah I'm really done. Point. Completely and utterly missing it.

If you not seeing that the dreams are an event in the game. Your missing it.

The only event I'm seeing is that later on some holographic kid is going to come along and give me three magical options. That's the ONLY point I see in the dreams. BioWare's stupid little Starkid that should have never even existed. Oh and Shepard going all emotional over just one kid when he/she could have potentially have seen more crap in his/her life.

Please.....

The Crucible gives Shepard the options not the Catalyst.

Nevermind the fact that two of these choices are REJECTIONS to his logic.

Nevermind that in his dreams, the kid is not the only thing....notice th ewhispers of all the allies who died in the series?

[dreman9999]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

LMAO

Yeah I'm really done. Point. Completely and utterly missing it.

If you not seeing that the dreams are an event in the game. Your missing it.

The only event I'm seeing is that later on some holographic kid is going to come along and give me three magical options. That's the ONLY point I see in the dreams. BioWare's stupid little Starkid that should have never even existed. Oh and Shepard going all emotional over just one kid when he/she could have potentially have seen more crap in his/her life.

You not getting it. When a refer to an event, I refering it as a game play divice. This is like playing an rpg, going into a bar and seeing people there with info you see that you may near, or walking in the woods in a game and being attacked by somthing.
It's the concept of in an rpg the player does not choose what events happen, they can only recat to the event to solve the prolems they face. You can't choose who in the bar has the info you need, or what monster attackes you and where in a game unless given a game divice to not be atacked.
When I'm calling the dreams an event , it's a game referance.
And even then, the last choice is covered in the same concept.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:19 .

[naddaya]

dreman9999 wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

LMAO

Yeah I'm really done. Point. Completely and utterly missing it.

If you not seeing that the dreams are an event in the game. Your missing it.

The only event I'm seeing is that later on some holographic kid is going to come along and give me three magical options. That's the ONLY point I see in the dreams. BioWare's stupid little Starkid that should have never even existed. Oh and Shepard going all emotional over just one kid when he/she could have potentially have seen more crap in his/her life.

You not getting it. When a refer to an event, I refering it as a game play divice. This is like playing an rpg, going into a bar and seeing people there with info you see that you may near, or walking in the woods in a game and being attacked by somthing.
It's the concept of in an rpg the player does not choose what events happen, they can only recat to the event to solve the prolems they face. You can't choose who in the bar has the info you need, or what monster attackes you and where in a game unless given a game divice to not be atacked.
When I'm calling the dreams an event , it's a game referance.
And even then, the last choice is covered in the same concept.

The game must give you a reason to be in that bar, if they already gave you the chance to characterize your character in the previous titles. Gathering information would probably be fine for everyone. Going into said bar to help a squadmate solve a personal problem when in the past you had the option to clearly dislike him and be rude to him won't be appreciated by everyone, because it's forced and it depends on an emotional response: you're forced to care about that squadmate.
Same with the recurring dreams. They do show Shepard's attachment to the kid, something that in most players, as these forums show, wasn't present.