24 réponses à ce sujet

[The RPGenius]

...and I won't pay for another Mass Effect DLC until that happens.  Until Paragon Shepard has an option true to the Mass Effect series's Paragon ideals, until I can WIN the game I've bought, no more money will go toward it.  Just thought I'd throw that out for any EA or Bioware employee who might be watching.

And for that same employee, I'm aware of the copy-paste response you're just itching to Ctrl - V in here.  You don't intend to do anything more with the endings.  Seen it, got it, have fun with that plan.  But when you feel like having my money again, you'll know how to get it.  Take however long you need to come to that conclusion--I'm patient.  I can wait.

[David7204]

I'm curious. Is refusal good because it's good? Or is it good just because it goes against the Catalyst?

Well, 'good' as in 'preferable to the other endings.'

Modifié par David7204, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:54 .

[Shallyah]

I think Refusal ending is still a good ending. You do not beat the Reapers yourself, but you stand up to your ideals, and your actions lead the next cycle to finally defeat the Reapers.

After all the thousand cycles there have been, one more is really minor if you look at the big picture. Sure, it's hard to accept that all you know is gone, but the final outcome is that you end the cycles.

[tomcplotts]

hold that cash in an interest bearing account, because you won't be spending it ever.
the unicorn cavalry isn't coming, no matter how many micro-bucks you're willing to flush for it.
and for once, i'm actually grateful to ea for holding firm on that.

[D24O]

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. Is refusal good because it's good? Or is it good just because it goes against the Catalyst?

Well, 'good' as in 'preferable to the other endings.'

It's in no way preferable to the other endings, since everyone dies, the end. But on a metatextual level, I feel that having an option for the galaxy to win on its own terms meand that BW wasn't trying to shoehorn us into a nhilistic story about submission and compromising ones morals. It means that the story that was being told through the trilogy was really being told, it was a story about hope and unity and defiance, and all those other uplifting themes, despite the dark setting. It means that they didn't forget the story they were telling at the very end .

[Trauma3x]

Refusal is a good ending b/c it leaved "no speculation" as to.what happened; you Lost. Where destroy leaves you to speculate whether or not u will see your crew or LI....its implid which if this wernt the final would be acceptable but this according to what we are told is Shepards final act
So if it led to a reunion sure I'd pay

[tanisha__unknown]

Feel free to do so. But it's not going to happen, the refuse-ending we got is very likely. You're not getting your unicorn-and-they-live-happily-ever-after-ending.

Though I'd probably pay them too, if they offered one...

Modifié par Jinx1720, 02 juillet 2012 - 12:06 .

[Galbrant]

Jinx1720 wrote...

Feel free to do so. But it's not going to happen, the refuse-ending we got is very likely. You're not getting your unicorn-and-they-live-happily-ever-after-ending.

Though I'd probably pay them too, if they offered one...

Wait isn't that basically the Synthesis ending?

[Ghost]

Disney ending?

[D24O]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Disney ending?

It better have talking animals and fluffy bunnies. Oh, and make Sol sing a tune to us for good measure.

[Tigerman123]

People die in war

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I think Javik said it best when he asked Shepard if he believed he could fight the war and keep his honor intact, and then proceeding to tell him that he/she should ask the dead if honor matters to them - their silence being the answer.

Up to this point, I felt Biwoare was all talk when it came to "hard decisions" in the Mass Effect series. But they ended the series on one which was so hard, it broke so many of its own players. For that, I commend them. And if they create a happy Refusal ending, they will lose a lot of my respect.

Their only regret should be not preparing their players well enough to handle what they threw at them in the end.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

They already said that they weren't planning to do any more ending related DLC. Just stop all this fairytale ending talk already.

[The RPGenius]

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. Is refusal good because it's good? Or is it good just because it goes against the Catalyst?

Well, 'good' as in 'preferable to the other endings.'

There are 2 "good" endings, if you equate "good" with "Paragon." if you mean "good" as in "superior quality," then yes, Refusal is probably the closest to it.  To me, either version of "good" is "preferable to the other endings."  Looking at it as Paragon, though, Control is Paragon because it follows the ideal of saving everyone possible with self-sacrifice, of winning this war without sacrificing the innocent.  Unfortunately, it's also a complete destruction of Paragon values because it's going against the Paragon values espoused by Shepard multiple times in the series, and the wisdom of the series itself--the idea that it's wrong and dangerous to use technology and power that you're not ready for.  Shepard's Paragon disapproval of The Illusive Man, the tragic results of the Krogan Uplift, and even the very nature of the Reapers' trap (confine each cycle's technological advancement to predestined paths by leaving them specific tech to adopt (Citadel, Mass Relays)).  Control is the ending I have to end up choosing, because I cannot justify to myself sacrificing the innocent even for the greatest of ideals--and yet this sickens me, because I know that this is EXACTLY what a Paragon stands against, as Shepard has admonished Cerberus and others many times for--letting a bottom line compromise your philosophy and ideals.  By being one half of Paragon, the salvation of the innocent, Control becomes the exact opposite of Paragon in terms of theme and ideals.

Refusal is the other Paragon ending, in that it is a refusal to sacrifice integrity, to give up on the beliefs and virtues of a Paragon.  Unfortunately, it also comes with the price of everyone dying.  By refusing to let fear and circumstances compromise one's actions, by staying true to the morality of a Paragon, by being the other half of Paragon, Refusal becomes the exact opposite of Paragon in terms of valuing life.

So as it stands, a Paragon player, like myself, has 2 options, but no way to win.  I don't think that's right.  Paragon has as much right to win as Renegade.  I encourage the Refusal option because it's more conceivable to fix its anti-Paragon aspect (the end result) than it is to fix Control's anti-Paragon aspect (its very nature).

[The RPGenius]

Galbrant wrote...

Jinx1720 wrote...

Feel free to do so. But it's not going to happen, the refuse-ending we got is very likely. You're not getting your unicorn-and-they-live-happily-ever-after-ending.

Though I'd probably pay them too, if they offered one...

Wait isn't that basically the Synthesis ending?

Bioware would certainly like one to think so.  But Synthesis flies in the face of several Paragon values and many themes of the Mass Effect series, makes no sense even by standards of a game with talking dinosaur men who can shoot glowy blue energy at things, and clashes with several important aspects of character development.  Not to mention it's creepy as hell if we are to infer, as the ending implies, that Reaper ground forces are granted self-awareness.  It ain't exactly a live-happily-ever-after ending for the human who's now self-aware of their existence as a Cannibal's arm, that's for sure.

Ghost1017 wrote...

Disney ending?

At what point did our society become so arrogantly unimaginative and thoughtless that people would assume that a satisfyingly happy ending had less artistic merit than a bittersweet or grim one?  It has to have been in the last couple of years, since most people seemed appreciative of the artistic value of Bioware's previous "Disney" endings.

Tigerman123 wrote...

People die in war

Yes, and they already had, in great numbers, during the war that ME3 shows.  This is the same unexamined line of thought used by people who say that a happy Refusal ending wouldn't have enough sacrifice for the game--they seem to have forgotten the major sacrifices shown just 5 minutes before in the showdown with Anderson and the Illusive Man.

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

They already said that they
weren't planning to do any more ending related DLC. Just stop all this
fairytale ending talk already.

Oh, shoot, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention--I already know what they've said.  This post is simply to let them know that my money will stay where it is until they change their mind, and it's their choice whether that happens.

Oh, wait, I DID say all that in the original post!  I guess you should pay more attention.



Look, guys, and statistically less probably, girls, I wasn't especially looking to debate this.  My intention was to make sure (since it's been shown that Bioware watches these forums) that Bioware can, if it keeps track at all of these things, put me down as another drop in the bucket of people who won't purchase future ME3 DLC content until a proper Refusal ending (or some other proper Paragon ending) is made.  They want to maintain their policy of no more ending content, that's their call, and I'm aware there's nothing to be done about it, but I wish not to allow any ambiguity about why I'm not supporting the franchise as they do so.  You want to argue with me here, or call me names, I won't stop you from pushing this to the top of the forums, and heaven knows I probably won't refrain from responding, but it's not really my intention here.

[deaddecoy]

Meh, I like the rejection ending because it is the most honest one out of the batch. It doesn't require some magic mcguffin, added in at the last minute, to tie together all of the loose plot holes and plot lines. Given that, the EC endings, while pretty, are still dissatisfying; ended up uninstalling ME 1, 2, 3 and Origin out of frustration.

[shurikenmanta]

I bet Hudson is shaking in his boots.

[Hudathan]

Save your money and use your imagination.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm always amused by people who insist that 'Paragon' ethics don't allow for mass murder and brainwashing.

[D24O]

All I want for refusal is ambiguity, oddly enough.

[Ghost]

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[Ghost]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Jinx1720 wrote...

You're not getting your unicorn-and-they-live-happily-ever-after-ending.

But I love unicorns...

Me too. 

[deaddecoy]

shurikenmanta wrote...
I bet Hudson is shaking in his boots.

Oh, I doubt he actually cares. I'm just venting my frustration. 

[CronoDragoon]

I don't think people realize that winning the battle of Earth means almost nothing. The Reapers are in the middle of taking over every other system, and the force allied at Earth will be devastated.