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[DPSSOC]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That's true as well. I had forgotten about her. It seems the good Magisters are either killed, hunted, or weak.

Perhaps Feynriel will change that, being a Somniari capable of using his magic from across Thedas. I'm willing to bet that he'll be critical for DA3. As a Tranquil, his mind will probably be restored -- with the unfortunate revelation that his mother killed herself.

As an Abomination, maybe we'll be able to cure him in DA3 and he heads off to Tevinter. And as a Magister's apprentice, well... he's already in Tevinter.

Maybe. I doubt it though.

More realistically if he becomes Tranquil or an Abomination he'll just be a Magister's apprentice in DA3 with no explanation of what happened, nor any acknowledgement that anything ever could have happened.

Note: I have no problems with the writers making certain decisions canon for the sake of the narrative, I just feel they could handle them a little better.

[Daerog]

True, but it does take more effort from a non mage to cause destruction than it does a mage.
I don't recall a single mage destroying a city, there is talk of mages have the ability to destroy towns, not sure if it was ever actually witnessed.

The story of the fall of Arthalan with the whole city sinking due to the magisters of old Tevinter is pretty scary though. Then again, Fereldan could sink if the Deep Roads all collapse suddenly. Just easier for a mage.

Mages are just superior that way.

Also, difference between abomination controlling an army and a ruthless ruler is that the abomination could be using blood magic to mind control people, no choice in the matter, while a ruthless ruler will just use fear, the people still have choice.

BW did mention that they wish to emphasize the mind control of blood mages at some point, I hope they do in DA3. Maybe the head noble who is against the Empress is being controlled/manipulated by a blood mage?

[dragonflight288]

Arlathan isn't a myth. It's told of in Tevinter history and Dwarven history as well. Refugees from Arlathan fled to find sanctuary among the dwarves and settled in Cadash Thaig.

They were later killed by the dwarves who didn't want to let Tevinter know they were harboring elves from Arlathan.

It's all discussed in Witch Hunt.

[Daerog]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arlathan isn't a myth. It's told of in Tevinter history and Dwarven history as well. Refugees from Arlathan fled to find sanctuary among the dwarves and settled in Cadash Thaig.

They were later killed by the dwarves who didn't want to let Tevinter know they were harboring elves from Arlathan.

It's all discussed in Witch Hunt.

Arlathan may not be a myth, but the details on what happened to it may be false. It may not have been mages at all, just the Old Gods who destroyed Arlathan, or maybe some high elves didn't flee and just warped Arlathan out of Thedas, and that may be where Morrigan went to when she entered through the Eluvian. My point in bringing it up is that it isn't only Chantry gossip that speaks of the terrible powers mages can have, every society seems to have those stories, except the dwarves...

As for brainwashing vs mind control, ya, pretty similar, just mind control seems like it is simpler/easier and cheaper to do than brainwashing, brainwashing can take time and resources, mind control sounds like it can be more sudden. Just speculation as mind control isn't really shown in DA yet. It really boils down to fear of what a mage's potential is in the end, how easy it can come to them, like Fenris says how he is sure there may be good magisters, but how much temptation can a good person take before giving in somewhere?

As for the original part of the thread, I hope neither side wins the war, just would be good to open up talks again on the matter. Circles should stay, but some reform would be good, like family visiting, trusted mages being able to help templars hunt down criminal mages, and annual inspections from the Seekers and local government would be good. Other stuff... Would really be nice to see how Imperial Circles work at some point.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 11 juillet 2012 - 09:59 .

[Dave of Canada]

Meredith's sister--an untrained child--killed 70 people, that's a fact. It's not an exaggeration how dangerous abominations are.

[Daerog]

It would be interesting to see a fully trained and powerful mage go crazy in the open world, with DA3 being mage-templar war. They could also show templars burning down a village with people in it to not have some mages hiding there escape, just to... well... not seem bias?

Sucks for the average peasant. Not wanting to be destroyed by a child mage going on a tantrum, but also feeling sorry for the poor kids living in a tower, with food, clean clothes, and... wait... the average peasant would actually be envious on those accounts and want to feel secure in a hard enough life. I can't imagine mages having much support.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:41 .

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Meredith's sister--an untrained child--killed 70 people, that's a fact. It's not an exaggeration how dangerous abominations are.

And the Chantry decided that the best person to be put in a position over mages was Meredith? The same person who demands the execution of hundreds of men, women, and children for an act that Anders alone is guilty of committing? Abominations are certainly dangerous, but even Merrill points out that members of the clan can kill them if an elven mage becomes possessed. Despite how dangerous they are, that doesn't mean the Chantry of Andraste or the Order of Templars are the solution to regulating magic.

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Really? You know the personalities and ideals of every single mage in Tevinter? Please enlighten me as to how you came across this wealth of knowledge and information about every single mage in Tevinter. I ask because Feynriel went to Tevinter to master himself and not to become one of the Magisters, so your comment seems to be factually inaccurate. There's also the account of the Magister who tried to end slavery, so not every Magister is like Danarius.

Fenris and Lambert describe the ruling system of Tevinter in great detail where those who expect to wield any political power for their or others good, must resort to blood magic because their competitors do the very same thing. The corruption that follows is inevitable. That magister you speak of, who wanted to abolish slavery, was quickly assassinated.
So, while I am certain there are good and bad people in Tevinter just like anywhere else, the good people will either remain insignificant or slaves and thus can do nothing to change the Tevinter society or they will rise, gain power and become bad in order to keep that power and thus will do nothing to change the Tevinter society or they will not use blood magic and then will be assassinated by less scrupulous magisters.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 juillet 2012 - 02:13 .

[LobselVith8]

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Really? You know the personalities and ideals of every single mage in Tevinter? Please enlighten me as to how you came across this wealth of knowledge and information about every single mage in Tevinter. I ask because Feynriel went to Tevinter to master himself and not to become one of the Magisters, so your comment seems to be factually inaccurate. There's also the account of the Magister who tried to end slavery, so not every Magister is like Danarius.

Fenris and Lambert describe the ruling system of Tevinter in great detail where those who expect to wield any political power for their or others good, must resort to blood magic because their competitors do the very same thing. The corruption that follows is inevitable. That magister you speak of, who wanted to abolish slavery, was quickly assassinated.
So, while I am certain there are good and bad people in Tevinter just like anywhere else, the good people will either remain insignificant or slaves and thus can do nothing to change the Tevinter society or they will rise, gain power and become bad in order to keep that power and thus will do nothing to change the Tevinter society or they will not use blood magic and then will be assassinated by less scrupulous magisters.

Things change. Things can change for Tevinter, and simply because corrupt elements have remained in control doesn't mean it will always be so. As for the assassinated Magister, that only stands as proof that even in the competitive enviornment of Tevinter, some people seek to change Tevinter for the better. Perhaps Feynriel could be someone who might change the Imperium.

[dragonflight288]

Fenris and Lambert describe the ruling system of Tevinter in great detail where those who expect to wield any political power for their or others good, must resort to blood magic because their competitors do the very same thing. The corruption that follows is inevitable. That magister you speak of, who wanted to abolish slavery, was quickly assassinated.
So, while I am certain there are good and bad people in Tevinter just like anywhere else, the good people will either remain insignificant or slaves and thus can do nothing to change the Tevinter society or they will rise, gain power and become bad in order to keep that power and thus will do nothing to change the Tevinter society or they will not use blood magic and then will be assassinated by less scrupulous magisters.

Maybe we should just ally with the Qunari and invade Tevinter? lol.

[MisterJB]

Now, there is an idea. Thedas vs the Magisters. Breach the gates of Minrathous, bring down their Juggernaut Golems!

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 juillet 2012 - 03:08 .

[Fallstar]

Left to it's own devices, Tevinter will always remain a mageocracy. It being a mageocracy isn't really the end of the world, the problem is the way the magisters keep stocks of slaves. Almost like a MAD situation really, both sides stockpile nuclear weapons because whoever disarms first is at a catastrophic military disadvantage. Whichever magister freed his slaves would similarly be dispensed with shortly by those who haven't.

The only hope to end such slavery in Tevinter would be if one magister become something of a benevolent dictator, whose power was not reliant on slaves. For example a somniari. Now if only we had a somniari in Tevinter perfectly positioned to become a magister...oh well can't think of one.

Alternatively if somehow blood magic was rendered redundant, that would also make the need to keep such 'banks' of slaves redundant. Although I can't see that happening, based on how important BM is.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 11 juillet 2012 - 03:21 .

[EricHVela]

DuskWarden wrote...

Left to it's own devices, Tevinter will always remain a mageocracy. It being a mageocracy isn't really the end of the world, the problem is the way the magisters keep stocks of slaves. Almost like a MAD situation really, both sides stockpile nuclear weapons because whoever disarms first is at a catastrophic military disadvantage. Whichever magister freed his slaves would similarly be dispensed with shortly by those who haven't.

The only hope to end such slavery in Tevinter would be if one magister become something of a benevolent dictator, whose power was not reliant on slaves. For example a somniari. Now if only we had a somniari in Tevinter perfectly positioned to become a magister...oh well can't think of one.

Alternatively if somehow blood magic was rendered redundant, that would also make the need to keep such 'banks' of slaves redundant. Although I can't see that happening, based on how important BM is.

I think they designed Blood Magic to be irreplaceable.

There are sympathetic Templars for the plight of Mages under heavy oppression. Their numbers were swelling if Hawke sided with the mages during Act III (until the big Oops at least).

Wouldn't there be Mages sympathetic towards mundanes as well? Would they start a mage-to-mage civil war? Could they win?

[Fallstar]

ReggarBlane wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

Left to it's own devices, Tevinter will always remain a mageocracy. It being a mageocracy isn't really the end of the world, the problem is the way the magisters keep stocks of slaves. Almost like a MAD situation really, both sides stockpile nuclear weapons because whoever disarms first is at a catastrophic military disadvantage. Whichever magister freed his slaves would similarly be dispensed with shortly by those who haven't.

The only hope to end such slavery in Tevinter would be if one magister become something of a benevolent dictator, whose power was not reliant on slaves. For example a somniari. Now if only we had a somniari in Tevinter perfectly positioned to become a magister...oh well can't think of one.

Alternatively if somehow blood magic was rendered redundant, that would also make the need to keep such 'banks' of slaves redundant. Although I can't see that happening, based on how important BM is.

I think they designed Blood Magic to be irreplaceable.

There are sympathetic Templars for the plight of Mages under heavy oppression. Their numbers were swelling if Hawke sided with the mages during Act III (until the big Oops at least).

Wouldn't there be Mages sympathetic towards mundanes as well? Would they start a mage-to-mage civil war? Could they win?

In Tevinter, I doubt it. I am under the impression that the most powerful magisters can keep upwards of a hundred slaves. Without any specialised use of blood magic, the raw power that would provide seems fairly unsurmountable to an ordinary mage to me. Then we have the specialised uses of blood magic, controlling people's blood, their minds, being able to cast spells even if the templars were helping the pro-'mundane' mages. 

I would also question how many people, once they have experienced the power and influence they have as a magister, would be willing to give that up. My suggestion for the somniari dictator only works because at the end of the day, he'd still be Archon. The magisters would lose a considerable amount of power without their slaves.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Clearly Thedas would rapidly degenerate into a daemon world.

Or not.

[Daerog]

This thread seems to be slowly falling into a plot to overthrow the current establishment in Tevinter.

I call dibs on finding the control rods for the Juggernauts!

[dragonflight288]

I'll give the qunari the cookies to ensure their cannons.

[Daerog]

Nizaris1 wrote...


I say Thedas will not forever using sword as their primary weapon, one day they will make muskets, bombs....then they develop nuclear weapons....

And the qunari will walk door to door, giving out exerpts of the Qun, "Good day my friend, do you sometimes feel lost?"

And one of the best selling novels will be about a Seeker conspiracy to hide the descendants of Andraste.
Templars will wear the finest suits and dark sunglasses, and they all wear tattooes like Fenris.
The biggest debates in pop culture will be how inaccurate portrayals of darkspawn were in the latest TV historical drama, The Grey, and did the last white divine have a secret affair with the black divine? Scandalous!

Oh, and elves will be as rare as unicorns.

All the while, the mages will be in floating cities, watching the world when they are bored, and... well, pretty much be the Guild in the Last Exile anime... eventually decide to just wipe out everyone who isn't a mage, since mages are superior and shouldn't tolerate the lessers, mwahahahahaha!

But first, the templar-mage war needs to be settled before going too far into the future and the Atom Age.

Edit: We will need a paragon baker in order to get enough cookies to appease the qunari for their cannons.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:13 .

[Dave of Canada]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I remember how Templar supporter ridicule "sword" vs "magic" issue....like i mentioned before, replace "sword" with "H-Bomb"

How about you remove "H-Bomb" from your vocabulary and stop using it to mention how dangerous Thedosian people are?

I say Thedas will not forever using sword as their primary weapon, one day they will make muskets, bombs....then they develop nuclear weapons....

And... this matters how in the argument? Assuming they develop identical to the modern world, it still doesn't stop mages from being dangerous and still doesn't stop possession from being a problem.

So in the end, one man still can destroy the whole city with only one button push...no need for magic or demon to do that

Yeah, in your hypothetical future based off the real world.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 juillet 2012 - 05:03 .

[Dave of Canada]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Anders use a BOMB, a bomb is in real world.

A bomb fueled by magic.

Even in DA:O there is a lot of bombs, so my argument valid. It is possible Thedas will become like real world we living in.

Until then, stop talking about nukes, k?

Magic exist in real world

My god.