Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
He just does what people think can't be done" means doing the impossible, and the refusal ending is about doing the impossible trying to beat the Reapers conventionally you contradicted yourselve at least 2 times.
,The circumstances are different, the galaxy is united ready to die for each other, I remember EDI telling me a story about a bunch of people who all died because they refuse to sell each other out to the Reapers, I'm sure if right now, on Earth. everyone, society was united and there was so form of hostility and racism towards each other, we would all die instead of sacrificing a certain country, race, whatever.IscrewTali wrote...
There is a point when standing up to something turns from heroism to utter and complete stupidity. Waging a galactic war, knowing casualties will be astronomical, then refusing to end it just because of pride and honor, and the ability to refuse.
If humanity had to choose between kill every single romanian(no offense) to ensure the survival of the rest of the planet, there would be no hesitation. Sure it would be a terrible genocide, and the one pushing the button must feel awful, but the rest of the planet would be forever grateful to be allowed to continue living. If this is not a worthy comparison, then damn all you trolls.
Your entire argument is precipitated upon the notion the Crucible is somehow a Reaper trap, and a necessary component of the harvest.elitehunter34 wrote...
Stuff.
LiarasShield wrote...
And Destroy doesn't really stop the reapers the catalyst said that the reapers would come back again in the future that isn't truely stoping them
How can you ask yourselve that if the Catalyst doesn't provide you enough information what Destroy does?Reorte wrote...
That's why you have to ask which do you think is most likely to get more people killed and base your decision solely on that (unless you want to take one of the other even more dubious choices).Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
For one you don't know if Destroy kills people with synthetic implants, quarians suits, etc. Also how many times has Shepard done the impossible....Just saying.
Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:02 .
memorysquid wrote...
Sauruz wrote...
Alright. I got a challenge for you:Reorte wrote...
You aren't saving the geth either.
Prove that. Using only content found inside the game, prove that all Geth stop to exist in the Reject ending.
Geth have good memories and the lady with the kid says they only have archives to go off. Plus Liara says our galaxy lost and all died. Plus the Catalyst says synthetics get Reaperized too.
elitehunter34 wrote...
Ok guys, I think everyone's missing the point of me and The Angry One here.
Here are the facts.
1) The Crucible is a device that is designed to stop the Reapers
2) The Catalyst created the Reapers
3) The Catalyst needs Shepard to activate the Crucible
There is absolutely no evidence that the Crucible will do what the Catalyst tells you it will do. You are only taking his word for it and it is the word of the creator of your enemy.
Look, I know, people are saying, "the Catalyst has no reason to help you, but he is anyways so that must mean he's telling the truth." Guys, do you not see the irony in that statement? Someone who is trying to helping you would make you put your guard down. It's called deception. Would you go into the house of someone that threatens to kill you or the person who offers you free cookies?
Now you could then say, "But why didn't the Catalyst just leave you on the floor bleeding then." It's because the Catalyst needs you to activate the Crucible. He says that so himself. So he feeds you a bunch of lies of what does what, and then you activate the Crucible and then it makes everyone indoctrinated so that they all stop fighting, and now the Reapers are free to turn the races of the galaxy into even more Reapers. Or maybe it freezes all the organic races in place while the Reapers harvest them. What it does is not the point.
"But wait," you say, "That never happens." You're right, it doesn't happen. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen, and that is exactly the point. Everything I just said is something that Shepard could infer by himself. It's something that requires no meta-gaming at all.
The only reason everyone here is defending the Catalyst and how he must be telling the truth is because they know what happened. They know that the Crucible does exactly what the Catalyst says it did. But Shepard didn't, all he knows is those three facts I laid out. Shepard doesn't know if the Catalyst has to tell the truth. Shepard doesn't know if the Catalyst can alter what the Crucible does. So yes Shepard could take the leap of faith and use the Crucible, and it saves the galaxy. Or he could use the Crucible and it leads to a fate worse than destruction, such as the organic races becoming a Reaper. These are conclusions that Shepard could come to, so what would Shepard do, trust his enemy and hope it works, or die fighting?
Modifié par N-Seven, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:05 .
MegaSovereign wrote...
You don't need to meta-game to realize that the galaxy can't beat the Reapers conventionally.
I proved my point.memorysquid wrote...
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
He just does what people think can't be done" means doing the impossible, and the refusal ending is about doing the impossible trying to beat the Reapers conventionally you contradicted yourselve at least 2 times.
"Jzargo doesn't know the meaning of 'impossible!'" Literally.
ghost9191 wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
And Destroy doesn't really stop the reapers the catalyst said that the reapers would come back again in the future that isn't truely stoping them
no it says that synthetics will come back, and the reapers are destroyed along with the catalyst, you base your whole argument on it lying but then say that it is telling the truth about this?
Reorte wrote...
You don't know for certain but you're not paying attention if you think that there's any chance of getting fewer killed by fighting on. It sounds pretty desperate just getting the Crucible in place and that's just occupying the Reapers for long enough to do so rather than causing significant damage to them.Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Like I said before, I would have never known everyone was going to die its not Genocide, And read the title of the thread.
Again, Shepard makes a habit of doing the impossible, and deciding the faith of the galaxy is more of a leap of faith than talking to a Quarian admiral.N-Seven wrote...
elitehunter34 wrote...
Ok guys, I think everyone's missing the point of me and The Angry One here.
Here are the facts.
1) The Crucible is a device that is designed to stop the Reapers
2) The Catalyst created the Reapers
3) The Catalyst needs Shepard to activate the Crucible
There is absolutely no evidence that the Crucible will do what the Catalyst tells you it will do. You are only taking his word for it and it is the word of the creator of your enemy.
Look, I know, people are saying, "the Catalyst has no reason to help you, but he is anyways so that must mean he's telling the truth." Guys, do you not see the irony in that statement? Someone who is trying to helping you would make you put your guard down. It's called deception. Would you go into the house of someone that threatens to kill you or the person who offers you free cookies?
Now you could then say, "But why didn't the Catalyst just leave you on the floor bleeding then." It's because the Catalyst needs you to activate the Crucible. He says that so himself. So he feeds you a bunch of lies of what does what, and then you activate the Crucible and then it makes everyone indoctrinated so that they all stop fighting, and now the Reapers are free to turn the races of the galaxy into even more Reapers. Or maybe it freezes all the organic races in place while the Reapers harvest them. What it does is not the point.
"But wait," you say, "That never happens." You're right, it doesn't happen. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen, and that is exactly the point. Everything I just said is something that Shepard could infer by himself. It's something that requires no meta-gaming at all.
The only reason everyone here is defending the Catalyst and how he must be telling the truth is because they know what happened. They know that the Crucible does exactly what the Catalyst says it did. But Shepard didn't, all he knows is those three facts I laid out. Shepard doesn't know if the Catalyst has to tell the truth. Shepard doesn't know if the Catalyst can alter what the Crucible does. So yes Shepard could take the leap of faith and use the Crucible, and it saves the galaxy. Or he could use the Crucible and it leads to a fate worse than destruction, such as the organic races becoming a Reaper. These are conclusions that Shepard could come to, so what would Shepard do, trust his enemy and hope it works, or die fighting?
I'll add more facts though.
4) The reapers are winning this war.
5) No one has ever defeated the Reapers conventionally.
6) The Reapers have completed countless cycles of harvesting without the Crucible ever existing or being activated. They don't need it, or you, to propagate their extermination cycle. The Crucible is a newly introduced unknown.
With this in mind, it's plausible for Shepard to entertain the possibility that this is not an elaborate trap to activate the Crucible for some great evil end, and that yes the Crucible could break the cycle somehow.
"The Geth don't want to fight you. If you can believe that just for one minute, this war will be over." This is Shepard pleading with the Quarian Admirals to take a leap of faith. It's not entirely out of character for him to take one himself. He did it with the Rachni, for example.
memorysquid wrote...
You gathered the best of all the fleets in the galaxy in a high EMS ending. Hammer gets wiped completely; the navies are getting hammered and the whole point was simply to provide a screen so people could get on the Citadel. That you won't win conventionally is obvious far before the last mission starts. It is in the basic plan for the battle that you can't win conventionally.
Fixed.Rhayak wrote...
Rejection is perhaps the dullest choice one can make: sticking to the values of everything that was done over the course of three games? Yay, genius
The Star Child is trustworthy simply because his statements come from EONS of observation.
Besides, why the hell should he lie? He doesn't need to. Without any action from the crucible, the galaxy simply loses the war. Then the next cycle wins because they were smart enough to actually USE the big space-magic weapon
Therefore, every other choice is better than rejection. From both Shepard's perspective and that of any person of sense.
Every piece of information Shepard has informs him that the reapers cannot be beaten conventionally, and that the Crucible is the only way to defeat them.elitehunter34 wrote...
Wow this thread is moving really fast, so I'm going to post this again because it explains why the OP is right.
Ok guys, I think everyone's missing the point of me and The Angry One here.
Here are the facts.
1) The Crucible is a device that is designed to stop the Reapers
2) The Catalyst created the Reapers
3) The Catalyst needs Shepard to activate the Crucible
There is absolutely no evidence that the Crucible will do what the Catalyst tells you it will do. You are only taking his word for it and it is the word of the creator of your enemy.
Look, I know, people are saying, "the Catalyst has no reason to help you, but he is anyways so that must mean he's telling the truth." Guys, do you not see the irony in that statement? Someone who is trying to helping you would make you put your guard down. It's called deception. Would you go into the house of someone that threatens to kill you or the person who offers you free cookies?
Now you could then say, "But why didn't the Catalyst just leave you on the floor bleeding then." It's because the Catalyst needs you to activate the Crucible. He says that so himself. So he feeds you a bunch of lies of what does what, and then you activate the Crucible and then it makes everyone indoctrinated so that they all stop fighting, and now the Reapers are free to turn the races of the galaxy into even more Reapers. Or maybe it freezes all the organic races in place while the Reapers harvest them. What it does is not the point.
"But wait," you say, "That never happens." You're right, it doesn't happen. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen, and that is exactly the point. Everything I just said is something that Shepard could infer by himself. It's something that requires no meta-gaming at all.
The only reason everyone here is defending the Catalyst and how he must be telling the truth is because they know what happened. They know that the Crucible does exactly what the Catalyst says it did. But Shepard didn't, all he knows is those three facts I laid out. Shepard doesn't know if the Catalyst has to tell the truth. Shepard doesn't know if the Catalyst can alter what the Crucible does. So yes Shepard could take the leap of faith and use the Crucible, and it saves the galaxy. Or he could use the Crucible and it leads to a fate worse than destruction, such as the organic races becoming a Reaper. These are conclusions that Shepard could come to, so what would Shepard do, trust his enemy and hope it works, or die fighting?
LiarasShield wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
And Destroy doesn't really stop the reapers the catalyst said that the reapers would come back again in the future that isn't truely stoping them
no it says that synthetics will come back, and the reapers are destroyed along with the catalyst, you base your whole argument on it lying but then say that it is telling the truth about this?
Wether he is lieing or not all of his options are wrong or terrible dieing for freedom and not turning everyone into hybrid machines killing my own forces in destroy potentially turn rogue or causing chaos from too much power in control no I'm sorry it will not happen
Modifié par ghost9191, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:06 .
That's the decision you've got to make, based on what little information you've got. It's marginally more information than you had before the Catalyst showed up and you were ready to try to activate the Crucible with everyone fully admitting that they didn't know what it would do.Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
How can you ask yourselve that if the Catalyst doesn't provide you enough information what Destroy does?Reorte wrote...
That's why you have to ask which do you think is most likely to get more people killed and base your decision solely on that (unless you want to take one of the other even more dubious choices).Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
For one you don't know if Destroy kills people with synthetic implants, quarians suits, etc. Also how many times has Shepard done the impossible....Just saying.
Again, rather that, than make a decision based on barely any information, like the point of his thread is saying how Refusal is the only viable decision unless you meta-game.memorysquid wrote...
Reorte wrote...
You don't know for certain but you're not paying attention if you think that there's any chance of getting fewer killed by fighting on. It sounds pretty desperate just getting the Crucible in place and that's just occupying the Reapers for long enough to do so rather than causing significant damage to them.Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Like I said before, I would have never known everyone was going to die its not Genocide, And read the title of the thread.
You gathered the best of all the fleets in the galaxy in a high EMS ending. Hammer gets wiped completely; the navies are getting hammered and the whole point was simply to provide a screen so people could get on the Citadel. That you won't win conventionally is obvious far before the last mission starts. It is in the basic plan for the battle that you can't win conventionally.
Trusting your enemy and doing what he tells you its not a good idea in war, unless you metagame, thats how it seems.Reorte wrote...
That's the decision you've got to make, based on what little information you've got. It's marginally more information than you had before the Catalyst showed up and you were ready to try to activate the Crucible with everyone fully admitting that they didn't know what it would do.Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
How can you ask yourselve that if the Catalyst doesn't provide you enough information what Destroy does?Reorte wrote...
That's why you have to ask which do you think is most likely to get more people killed and base your decision solely on that (unless you want to take one of the other even more dubious choices).Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
For one you don't know if Destroy kills people with synthetic implants, quarians suits, etc. Also how many times has Shepard done the impossible....Just saying.
Eryri wrote...
I agree with the OP.
Shepard has no reason to trust the Catalyst. Any or all of the actions it suggests could simply sabotage the Crucible. Or make it do something even worse - like indoctrinate everyone in range.
Frankly, the fact it was able to explain the ludicrous concept of synthesis with a straight face should mark it down as the most accomplished Bull****ter in all of creation.
Fixed.Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Fixed.Rhayak wrote...
Rejection is perhaps the dullest choice one can make: causing the deaths and harvesting of trillions of lives because you're too proud and unable to put aside your petty sentiments for the well-being of all galactic civilisation? Yay, genius, such a self-sacrificing hero
The Star Child is trustworthy simply because his statements come from EONS of observation.
Besides, why the hell should he lie? He doesn't need to. Without any action from the crucible, the galaxy simply loses the war. Then the next cycle wins because they were smart enough to actually USE the big space-magic weapon
Therefore, every other choice is better than rejection. From both Shepard's perspective and that of any person of sense.
Modifié par JackumsD, 02 juillet 2012 - 05:08 .
Retour en haut