215 réponses à ce sujet

[HrivnakScott]

I want better shields on the new humans...

[sliverofamoon]

I REALLY hope there are more females, no matter what race or class. Althrough, preferably human.

Edit: Especially since the last DLC had 6 new characters, and not one of them were females. I was seriously disappointed that the Ec-Cerbies didn't have the option of F/M.

Modifié par sliverofamoon, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:43 .

[Ypiret]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Ypiret wrote...

Chriss5688 wrote...

Ypiret wrote...

Why would adding female characters be that much of a bonus for women anyways? Almost every time they add female characers to video games, it's for men. Just like when every they add attractive male characters it's for women.

I can't see what you're complaining about thought. You have all that Ex-Cerberus man candy and we're all stuck looking at boring old female infiltrator and and adept.

It's not fair. Men like to look at women too.

And a lot (although not all) of women prefer playing as female characters.

Is that so hard to understand? 

Dude I was joking, I really don't care.

But I seriously can't see what the big deal is. I'm African and there are many many videogames where I cannot play as black person. I don't get my feathers in a jimmy about it though, because in comparison to actual hate crimes it's nothing. Yeah, it can be annoying but I'm not going to flip out and act as if it's the evilest wrong doing know to humanity. Especially when there are people actually suffering for looking the way they look.

So I shrug, suck it up, and play as a white dude.

If you never speak out, people won't really see anything wrong, you'll probably never find those that do see something is wrong, and so odds are good the status quo will not change because the masses assume everything is okay.

Yeah, it may well be petty that people, people like myself, are speaking up, and out about the lack of females in a DLC, but I'd like it to be known there's one more person out there that wants to see more women in future DLC.

I'm not saying it is bad to speak up. But put it in perspective. Don't go "woe is me" and act as if you're suffering from the greatest opression in human history and all men are misogynists.

It's one thing I've always disliked about my family. They're so quick to attack white people, which ironically borderlines on racism itself.

You also have to understand young males are the target audiance for videogames. Complaining there aren't enough female protagonist is like complaining there aren't enough male barbie dolls. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be any, but they're not thinking of it.

Modifié par Ypiret, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:50 .

[Rebel_Raven]

TheWout wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

TheWout wrote...

I kinda agree with Raven, there is a severe lack of half naked women in DLC.

SUPPORT THE CAUSE!
SUPPORT THE CAUSE!

But, alas, I must demand equality! Half-naked Krogan males must be in the pack, too, at the very least!! <.<

Dismissed, you already half more than half naked Vorcha

... Curse you! I've been foiled!!

At least it's not half naked Batarians males. Small victory there.

[TheWout]

If i were to star in a black/white buddy cop movie, i hope they cast Ypiret as the black guy

[Ypiret]

TheWout wrote...

If i were to star in a black/white buddy cop movie, i hope they cast Ypiret as the black guy

Oh hell yes

[TheWout]

Ypiret: There's a Phantom on your ass
MegaWout: What?
Ypiretl: There's a Phantom on yo ass.
MegaWout: Look, I'm sorry, I'm not up on all this jive talkin', home boy lingo, what's that supposed to mean? "There's a Phantom on yo ass"
Ypiret: It means there's a Phantom on your mother****in' ass, man!
Megawout: Well Kill it! KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT
Ypiret: I ain't shootin' that ****!

[ntrisley]

sliverofamoon wrote...

I REALLY hope there are more females, no matter what race or class. Althrough, preferably human.

Edit: Especially since the last DLC had 6 new characters, and not one of them were females. I was seriously disappointed that the Ec-Cerbies didn't have the option of F/M.

The thing which is constantly overlooked is that Cerberus' research projects are done similar to those which you see done today.

You don't do a single project with all the variables in play at once. You do multiple projects, each one testing a different variable.
The "Phantoms" are likely from the same overall project which "Phoenix" was a part of, but a different testing phase.

Plus:
Vorcha have no gender.

[uzi_money]

I'm curious to know which unique powers they can add to the new human classes. Are there any in single player that we haven't seen in multiplayer yet?

[Ypiret]

TheWout wrote...

Ypiret: There's a Phantom on your ass
MegaWout: What?
Ypiretl: There's a Phantom on yo ass.
MegaWout: Look, I'm sorry, I'm not up on all this jive talkin', home boy lingo, what's that supposed to mean? "There's a Phantom on yo ass"
Ypiret: It means there's a Phantom on your mother****in' ass, man!
Megawout: Well Kill it! KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT
Ypiret: I ain't shootin' that ****!

We got to propose this mother****er to FOX or something man.

Straight of TV magic gold right here.

We a' be famous.

Modifié par Ypiret, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:59 .

[TheWout]

Uzi, there are more powers in MP than there are in SP atm

[uzi_money]

TheWout wrote...

Uzi, there are more powers in MP than there are in SP atm

how about any powers that are not in MP like dark channel? (although that may be only unique to Javik)

Am I missing any others that the characters in SP had?

[Feauce]

Assassinate hasn't been in ME3 at all yet.

[Mgamerz]

uzi_money wrote...

TheWout wrote...

Uzi, there are more powers in MP than there are in SP atm

how about any powers that are not in MP like dark channel? (although that may be only unique to Javik)

Am I missing any others that the characters in SP had?

Slam.
Slam is ready for MP, it just isn't in anyone's powerset. It's listed in the MP powers though.

[upinya slayin]

uzi_money wrote...

TheWout wrote...

Uzi, there are more powers in MP than there are in SP atm

how about any powers that are not in MP like dark channel? (although that may be only unique to Javik)

Am I missing any others that the characters in SP had?

double throw eveolution is awesome. I forgot about that in SP till i dusted it of to start an insanity run

[upinya slayin]

Mgamerz wrote...

uzi_money wrote...

TheWout wrote...

Uzi, there are more powers in MP than there are in SP atm

how about any powers that are not in MP like dark channel? (although that may be only unique to Javik)

Am I missing any others that the characters in SP had?

Slam.
Slam is ready for MP, it just isn't in anyone's powerset. It's listed in the MP powers though.

we need a protean adept with slam and dark channel

[Rebel_Raven]

Ypiret wrote...
I'm not saying it is bad to speak up. But put it in perspective. Don't go "woe is me" and act as if you're suffering from the greatest opression in human history and all men are misogynists.

It's one thing I've always disliked about my family. They're so quick to attack white people, which ironically borderlines on racism itself.

You also have to understand young males are the target audiance for videogames. Complaining there aren't enough female protagonist is like complaining there aren't enough male barbie dolls. Doesn't mean there

Sorry if I got rilled up. I was hurt by the last DLC, and when I offered ideas (First, and foremost, the Female Krogan Vanguard idea) calmly, and civilly to the board, those were attacked, and people sought to sweep it under the rug, and pretend I never brought it up.

I offered support to the notion of a female Turian of any class in a calm, civil manner. I'd love for that to gain some momentum.

Then there's the notion that there should be women in the future DLCs, and even that gets attacked. I lash out in response to it.  I've tossed my hat into the ring in other game forums, and it's often a losing battle. I'm jaded, and angry, and bitter over the matter.

My desires for this game, shared or not, are threatened, and so I end up lashing out.

I'd love to be civil over this, but passions run hot at times, and I gotta vent some. Do understand that people do get angry, stressed, and tired of things, and seek an outlet for it.

Sorry if this comes out as "woe is me" but I'm simply explaining my situation some. I'll try to be calmer about things, though my opinions stand.

sliverofamoon wrote...

I REALLY hope there are more females, no matter what race or class. Althrough, preferably human.

Edit: Especially since the last DLC had 6 new characters, and not one of them were females. I was seriously disappointed that the Ec-Cerbies didn't have the option of F/M.

I agree on this matter, though I don't have a lot of preferrence on humans over other races.

I also agree with the edit.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 10 juillet 2012 - 08:23 .

[ntrisley]

As I recall it, your "calm and civil" idea offering was debated, by and large, in the same manner.

The biggest thing you had as an argument for female Krogan was "my friend (who is female) likes playing the Krogan Vanguard but doesn't like being a male".

That's not really relevant.
What is relevant is that BioWare is choosing to have lore apply to their character choices. That means female Krogan are not going to happen until we have a DLC announcing that the Krogan have bred in such numbers that they're already launching another war.

[Rebel_Raven]

ntrisley wrote...

As I recall it, your "calm and civil" idea offering was debated, by and large, in the same manner.

The biggest thing you had as an argument for female Krogan was "my friend (who is female) likes playing the Krogan Vanguard but doesn't like being a male".

That's not really relevant.
What is relevant is that BioWare is choosing to have lore apply to their character choices. That means female Krogan are not going to happen until we have a DLC announcing that the Krogan have bred in such numbers that they're already launching another war.

Relevant? I'd like to think that what the players want out of a game is relevant.

Who's to say what is, or isn't relevant, anyhow? You? me? Certainly not. I've simply stated my ideas, and tried to make a case for it, to which no one seemed to care about, instead sought to bludgeon it to death.

Said idea was also being stonewalled in that debate, too.

"DLC announcing that the Krogan have bred in such numbers that they're already launching another war"

Are you saying that can't happen in the DLC after the Earth DLC? A MP pack dedicated to Tuchunka, and the Krogans much the same as one's dedicated to Earth?

Either way, I don't see 100% of the female krogan population sharing a like mind to stay home, and let the guys do all the fighting. Arguably, they don't even have that mentality to begin with.
Eve clearly doesn't want the species left in the hands of all the guys, or even a single one, even if he is Wrex. Further, she's a very take action woman.
With the idea that the genophage was cured, if it was, or wasn't, odds are some women would feel less pressured to stay on the sidelines, and venture out, headbutting, and hitting people with her shotgun every step of the way if need be so they don't get carpetbombed from orbit by the reapers rendering the cure pointless.

Female Krogans are nos trangers to combat. Women on Tuchunka are respected, on top of that.

I still cannot see a single reason that there'd be absolutely no krogan women out there. The models exist in game, the mentality is there in my opinion, and lore isn't airtight against it.

You can throw lore at me all you like, but I'm not gunna pretend it all makes sense, and leave it alone.

[ntrisley]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

As I recall it, your "calm and civil" idea offering was debated, by and large, in the same manner.

The biggest thing you had as an argument for female Krogan was "my friend (who is female) likes playing the Krogan Vanguard but doesn't like being a male".

That's not really relevant.
What is relevant is that BioWare is choosing to have lore apply to their character choices. That means female Krogan are not going to happen until we have a DLC announcing that the Krogan have bred in such numbers that they're already launching another war.

Relevant? I'd like to think that what the players want out of a game is relevant.

Who's to say what is, or isn't relevant, anyhow? You? me? Certainly not. I've simply stated my ideas, and tried to make a case for it, to which no one seemed to care about, instead sought to bludgeon it to death.

If by "bludgeon it to death", you mean point out that you're "making a case" for something which has already actually been explained before--sure.

Said idea was also being stonewalled in that debate, too.

I don't think you actually know what "stonewalling" is. Saying "Your idea is bad and you should feel bad!" is stonewalling.
Saying "This idea would require a massive rewrite of lore, which BioWare is using for the classes they're adding" is not stonewalling. It's a discussion.

"DLC announcing that the Krogan have bred in such numbers that they're already launching another war"

Are you saying that can't happen in the DLC after the Earth DLC? A MP pack dedicated to Tuchunka, and the Krogans much the same as one's dedicated to Earth?

The simple fact that Tuchunka didn't actually have that much of a Reaper presence makes this unlikely.
The fact, also, that at best a manner of months has passed between the start of the game and the ending and Krogan having live births(which would require a gestational period of at least a few months for the pregnancy--not to mention an actual adolescence/juvenile stage of the Krogan offspring afterwards)  means that it will be a few generations before the Krogan are at such numbers before launching another war.

Either way, I don't see 100% of the female krogan population sharing a like mind to stay home, and let the guys do all the fighting. Arguably, they don't even have that mentality to begin with.
Eve clearly doesn't want the species left in the hands of all the guys, or even a single one, even if he is Wrex. Further, she's a very take action woman.

I don't think you played the same game as I did.
Eve was very much, as you said, "I don't want the species left in the hands of all the males"...but the females are the ones who hold the power.
Wrex/Wreav comment as much when they're on Earth. They'll make a joke about "demanding the continent you call...Australia!" as payment.
And then saying it was a joke, and that Eve would have their heads for insulting their allies.

The female Krogan hold all the power with the curing of the genophage. They are not going to leave Tuchunka, unless it is to flee to a safe haven.
And in that case, the males(and sterile females) will fight to the last to ensure the fertile females get out.

With the idea that the genophage was cured, if it was, or wasn't, odds are some women would feel less pressured to stay on the sidelines, and venture out, headbutting, and hitting people with her shotgun every step of the way if need be so they don't get carpetbombed from orbit by the reapers rendering the cure pointless.

Consider that the genophage being cured is canon. No matter what.
Unless you kill Mordin, he always figures out the sabotage.

Female Krogans are no strangers to combat. Women on Tuchunka are respected, on top of that.

Yes, female Krogans are no strangers to combat.

But they're also not "Wrahahaha!" methods of combat that we're used to from the Krogan. To assume that the female Krogan would play the exact same is so ludicrously silly that it makes the paranoid idea that the male Quarians(who are, in fact, not the same as the female Quarians in terms of lore or training. The males are coming from the Migrant Fleet Marines and essentially are meant to be "not Kal-Reegars", while the female Quarians are intended to be representative of "not Tali-Zorahs") was specifically to spite the female players who enjoyed the Quarians look almost plausible. It makes the silliness of the idea that "Phoenix Adepts were introduced for those who don't like playing as Asari!" look even less ridiculous.

I still cannot see a single reason that there'd be absolutely no krogan women out there. The models exist in game, the mentality is there in my opinion, and lore isn't airtight against it.

You can throw lore at me all you like, but I'm not gunna pretend it all makes sense, and leave it alone.

It makes perfect sense, provided you're not just ignoring it in favor of "But I want to play as a female Krogan!".
The genophage is cured. In the Krogan population during the genophage, only 1 in 1000 pregnancies was even viable.
That is a miniscule amount--hence the Krogan effectively being rendered a toothless threat to the galaxy.

You don't start sending out females to the frontlines when you're trying to overcome that kind of population deficit.

Unless you deus ex machina the entire thing, and have the cure also instaimpgregnate every single one of the female Krogans.

And for the record?

I could care less about introducing female character variants into the game. Personally, I'd rather that I could just set my gender to "Male" and never get any of the female characters.
I don't like playing as females. Just like you seemingly don't like playing as males.

But you don't hear me complaining about the "injustice and inherent sexism of the lack of Asari male characters".

[Ypiret]

I can't really understand how this is something you could get legitimately so upset about though.

You do realize when they don't take ideas like "include female x,y,z" it's for the same reason they don't include other good ideas? It's just not in their plans/ goes against lore/don't have the time or resources/ too lazy to do it. Do you really think the Devs read stuff like this and go "Pfffft, females going to war? Don't they know all women are good for is making babies and sammiches?" Don't take it so personally. Don't think everyone is out to get you. I feel that's a mentality a lot of "oppressed" (for lack of a better word) have that only creates more negativity.

And hell of all the games to get pissed about it sure as hell shouldn't be Mass Effect.
I shouldn't even have to point out why. C'mon now.

[Ghost]

July 17th release date.

[Rebel_Raven]

[quote]ntrisley wrote...

I don't think you actually know what "stonewalling" is. Saying "Your idea is bad and you should feel bad!" is stonewalling.
Saying "This idea would require a massive rewrite of lore, which BioWare is using for the classes they're adding" is not stonewalling. It's a discussion.
[/quote]
It's hardly a discussion, I'm being hit over the head with lore that's not airtight vs my idea, yet people throw up lore and don't seem to register anything I say.

[quote]The simple fact that Tuchunka didn't actually have that much of a Reaper presence makes this unlikely.
The fact, also, that at best a manner of months has passed between the start of the game and the ending and Krogan having live births(which would require a gestational period of at least a few months for the pregnancy--not to mention an actual adolescence/juvenile stage of the Krogan offspring afterwards)  means that it will be a few generations before the Krogan are at such numbers before launching another war.
[/quote]
The reapers were on tuchunka in force. I don't know what game you were playing what with the husks, cannibals, brutes, rachni, and a full blown small reaper running around the whole time you were on tuchunka. I don't see the Reapers going "Oh, we got pushed back here, lets leave the species alone."

I don't think the krogan population is so small they can't spare people to go and fight. If it was, they'd never back palaven, or earth. They did back palaven, and earth, however, and in force.




[quote]I don't think you played the same game as I did.[/quote]
Talk to Eve much? And grunt?

[quote]Eve was very much, as you said, "I don't want the species left in the hands of all the males"...but the females are the ones who hold the power.
Wrex/Wreav comment as much when they're on Earth. They'll make a joke about "demanding the continent you call...Australia!" as payment.
And then saying it was a joke, and that Eve would have their heads for insulting their allies.

The female Krogan hold all the power with the curing of the genophage. They are not going to leave Tuchunka, unless it is to flee to a safe haven.
And in that case, the males(and sterile females) will fight to the last to ensure the fertile females get out.[/quote] So you're saying just because a gender holds the power, they can't go out and fight to protect their homeland? And that if they wanted to, they'd let the people that have power over stop them?

Consider that the genophage being cured is canon. No matter what.
Unless you kill Mordin, he always figures out the sabotage.[/quote]
I don't have the heart to kill Mordin.

So with the cure there, and probably verified ... a lot ... that means less pressure for the women to stay cooped up. Not all would leave, but some would want to go, I figure. I sure would wanna be proactive against the reapers, cerberus, and other enemies of the krogans.

[quote]
Yes, female Krogans are no strangers to combat.

But they're also not "Wrahahaha!" methods of combat that we're used to from the Krogan. To assume that the female Krogan would play the exact same is so ludicrously silly that it makes the paranoid idea that the male Quarians(who are, in fact, not the same as the female Quarians in terms of lore or training. The males are coming from the Migrant Fleet Marines and essentially are meant to be "not Kal-Reegars", while the female Quarians are intended to be representative of "not Tali-Zorahs") was specifically to spite the female players who enjoyed the Quarians look almost plausible. It makes the silliness of the idea that "Phoenix Adepts were introduced for those who don't like playing as Asari!" look even less ridiculous.[/quote]

You can't pin the entire personality set of an entire species on meeting one person. Krogan personalities are plenty diverse. Playing Mass Effect 2 can certainly help prove that.

I can't pretend to know the reasons male quarians were introduced. I don't believe I outright said that it was done to spite anyone. regardless, it rubs me the wrong way, and I don't care what's said on the topic.

I've never noticed the whole Phonex Adept vs Asari thing. Never mentioned it.

[quote]
It makes perfect sense, provided you're not just ignoring it in favor of "But I want to play as a female Krogan!".
The genophage is cured. In the Krogan population during the genophage, only 1 in 1000 pregnancies was even viable.
That is a miniscule amount--hence the Krogan effectively being rendered a toothless threat to the galaxy.

You don't start sending out females to the frontlines when you're trying to overcome that kind of population deficit.

Unless you deus ex machina the entire thing, and have the cure also instaimpgregnate every single one of the female Krogans.

And for the record?

I could care less about introducing female character variants into the game. Personally, I'd rather that I could just set my gender to "Male" and never get any of the female characters.
I don't like playing as females. Just like you seemingly don't like playing as males.

But you don't hear me complaining about the "injustice and inherent sexism of the lack of Asari male characters".
[/quote]

I'm not ignoring lore just to get a female krogan. I adore the Mass Effect universe, and the care that went into it. Enough that I read the descriptions of pretty much every planet.

We don't have a consensus on Krogan populations. Further, despite that tiny population, as you see it,, they sent enough to slow down the reapers to two planets, and likely kept enough on their planet to keep them from being overrun.

Further it wasn't just the genophage/population that rendered them toothless. There's also the Council Demilitarization Enforcement Mission that prevented the Krogan from gaining armed warships.

If they -were- toothless simply due to population, they probably coulden't afford to send soldiers anywhere to help anyone in any meaningful manner.

You talk like I'm wanting every last woman on Tuchunka sent out to fight. 'm sure with their diverse personalities some would want to stay, and some would want to go and fight.

As far as the "ex-machina," it's probably not necessary. I don't think they'd all hold back. There's likely to be a population boom. Still, I doubt all of them would wanna stay home to raise a family. There's the desire to protect others that's prolly inherent to every species.

You've hit the nail on the head about me not liking to play as males in a game. The closest I get are the geth who don't really have a gender. I like robots.

I don't have problems with males being added in DLC. None at all. MP characters come 6 at a time so far. My problem results when it's all male. Male quarians were just salt in the wound for me.

Why would you, or anyone complain about the lack of male characters, even among the asari? Bioware already gave you a metric ton of them. And you know what? You're still going to get more male characters in the future. You're easily going to get more diversity for MP.

I don't think I can say the same as someone who only wants to play as women. There in lies one problem.

What I'm complaining about is a lack of something in MP that canonically exists. Female Turians, female Krogan, and female humans.
Further, I feel I legitimately have grounds to think they're going to be rare, if they at all get added in the future. Not only that, but there's also the question if we're going to get a female that can go in, and melee without the fear of being annihillated due to being squishy and/or having to restrict themselves to light weapons.
As it stands, I don't think any female vanguard can hold a candle to the new Vanguards in that regard.

As far as you not wanting to play as a female, that's fine. I respect that, and I hope the respect is mutual.


[quote]Ypiret wrote...

I can't really understand how this is something you could get legitimately so upset about though.

You do realize when they don't take ideas like "include female x,y,z" it's for the same reason they don't include other good ideas? It's just not in their plans/ goes against lore/don't have the time or resources/ too lazy to do it. Do you really think the Devs read stuff like this and go "Pfffft, females going to war? Don't they know all women are good for is making babies and sammiches?" Don't take it so personally. Don't think everyone is out to get you. I feel that's a mentality a lot of "oppressed" (for lack of a better word) have that only creates more negativity.

And hell of all the games to get pissed about it sure as hell shouldn't be Mass Effect.
I shouldn't even have to point out why. C'mon now.[/quote]

Frankly it does. Take a game I adore, and add onto it, cept not add  parts of it that are the reason I adore the game? That being the strong female figures that could do what ever the guys could and be as equally viable in it?

Granted there was no loss in the female roster, neither was there any addition to add to potential playstyles.

When they don't include something, it's "just not in their plans/ goes against lore/don't have the time or resources/ too lazy to do it" as you put it, then?  So they don't include female characters. So female characters fit into the reasons you just offered up, right? Some of those reasons are -bad- reasons to me. Unacceptable reasons in my book. Hence my negativity.

Lacking female characters strips away what enjoyment I might've had in the product, and offers up some frustration that women were removed for reasons stated, largely that they weren't important enough to keep. That makes me right in feeling negatively.

As far as the notion that women are only good for making babies, and sammiches, honestly, I think that's more exclusive to a good many board members.  

It's pretty easy to not understand, I'm sure. I think the real trick is trying to understand my position.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:55 .

[Ypiret]

 Looks like they're including new female character anyways? 
http://i.imgur.com/Mw7oV.png
You're kind of freaking out over nothing?

And like I said, females aren't the target audience. Anything for them is "extra". And that's just the way things are right now. You can't demand radical change asking for videogames to suddenly become just as popular for women as they are for men.

And don't for one second I don't understand your position.
Don't do it man.

(I'm in a rush. I might respond in more detail later)

[ntrisley]

The trick is to realize that your position is not airtight, while the lore actually is.