209 réponses à ce sujet

[Krunjar]

I am actually Hoping they leave the universe alone now or at least only do prequels or side stories. The future of the ME universe is now so utterly different thanks to the choice that making a game that incorporates all the choices into one narrative seems impossible. And if they canonize any one ending the community will go up in flames ... again.

[clennon8]

Unschuld wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

You're referring to IT, I assume?  Yeah, I'm kind of keeping my foot in the door, hoping that thing turns out to be true.  But I'm not holding my breath.  And I try to keep IT out of threads that aren't specifically about IT.

Actually no, I'm not. It has nothing to do with IT unless you're looking at it like that (I liked the IT, but despite my banners I'm not a "believer"). Destroy is the only ending that's close to the narrative arc that (Paragon) Shepard follows. Control is what I'd expect from a Renegade Shepard, so it's slightly acceptable. Synthesis is everything that Saren, Mordin, and just about any other one of your allies has convinced you AGAINST for three games. It's in. the. story. Negotiating with the reapers is BAD, anyone who tried to do so turns out in a bad way. Organic/Machine hybrids are culturally DEAD and STAGNANT. Do NOT trust the reapers or their "gifts". All of it is there.

Besides Destroy still being one of three presented choices by the catalyst (the reaper hive-mind), it is the one least favored, and ends with a sacrifice, not a bargain with a race of synthetic/organic constructs that have been murdering everyone into milkshakes for millions of years.

Oh.  Well, you're preaching to the choir.  I completely agree with you on your points about themes and narrative consistency.  Walters and Hudson crapped the bed.

[Unschuld]

 

ghost9191 wrote...

to be fair, to be fair. some ppl already destroy the geth prior to priority earth so they only stabbed edi in the back

I didn't know my Shepard would survive that choice on my first playthrough, either. After all he walks into an exploding tube. I chose destroy because despite the sacrifice, it is narratively cohesive. The breath scene after was the cherry on top of the cake.

DinoSteve wrote...
I don't see the people who chose destroy as ****s that stabbed Edi and the Geth in the back, I think most people that chose destroy would have chosen it no matter the cost, even if Shepard died they still would have chosen it. The righteous path is a hard path.

EDI and the Geth already stated previously in the story that they were willing to die/"risk nonfunctionality" rather than bargain or side with the reapers. As far as I'm concerned, that's implied consent. It still sucks, but then again most sacrifices do.

Modifié par Unschuld, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:12 .

[Xamufam]

agu123 wrote...

Do not be afraid. Synthesis is peace. Synthesis is salvation.

Synthesis is brainwashing

[ghost9191]

Krunjar wrote...

I am actually Hoping they leave the universe alone now or at least only do prequels or side stories. The future of the ME universe is now so utterly different thanks to the choice that making a game that incorporates all the choices into one narrative seems impossible. And if they canonize any one ending the community will go up in flames ... again.

that is one thing i hate, i want a sequel but if they do it with synthesis as the cannon i wouldn't buy it. so i understand why they won't do it. but if it was synthesis that would be a pretty boring game considering it is suppose to be peaceful.

destroy or control would be better cannons for a sequel and i would buy it if they were, but again not synthesis so i understand where your coming from

[memorysquid]

DinoSteve wrote...

No, I think I read somewhere synthesis was their preferred ending.

I could have told you that pre-EC.  They obviously favor it because Shepard sacrifices the most and creates the best galactic outcome, i.e., he's the biggest hero in synthesis.

[ghost9191]

Unschuld wrote...

 

ghost9191 wrote...

to be fair, to be fair. some ppl already destroy the geth prior to priority earth so they only stabbed edi in the back

I didn't know my Shepard would survive that choice on my first playthrough, either. After all he walks into an exploding tube. I chose destroy because despite the sacrifice, it is narratively cohesive. The breath scene after was the cherry on top of the cake.

DinoSteve wrote...
I don't see the people who chose destroy as ****s that stabbed Edi and the Geth in the back, I think most people that chose destroy would have chosen it no matter the cost, even if Shepard died they still would have chosen it. The righteous path is a hard path.

EDI and the Geth already stated previously in the story that they were willing to die/"risk nonfunctionality" rather than bargain or side with the reapers. As far as I'm concerned, that's implied consent. It still sucks, but then again most sacrifices do.

same, i actually didn't play mp before my first play through, and avoided the internet so i wouldn't get any spoilerl. so when i chose destroy i didn't get the breath scene. then i found out about it. but my reason stay the same. it ends the reaper threat and gives the galaxy the chacne to build a future without the reapers.

[RampantAndroid]

Didn't they say "keep your saves around"? If they do a sequel, it'll be in the further future, referencing Shep's actions....no more. You'll get a codex entry saying what happened. You know, like how in DA2 the DA1 baby means nothing, nor does who was king and such.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

memorysquid wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No, I think I read somewhere synthesis was their preferred ending.

I could have told you that pre-EC.  They obviously favor it because Shepard sacrifices the most and creates the best galactic outcome, i.e., he's the biggest hero in synthesis.

Many people would disagree with that though.

[ghost9191]

memorysquid wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No, I think I read somewhere synthesis was their preferred ending.

I could have told you that pre-EC.  They obviously favor it because Shepard sacrifices the most and creates the best galactic outcome, i.e., he's the biggest hero in synthesis.

might have to disagree with the hero thing. i wouldn't like being turned against my will and might dispise him for it. well unless i was brainwashed:?

[memorysquid]

DinoSteve wrote...

hmmm might replay kotor 1 & 2 again

KOTOR 2 especially the ending was just amazing.  Maybe that was what they were trying for here?  A simple illuminating chat with Kreia, just all in all a fantastic game.  Man they screwed the pooch here.

[Mann42]

HagarIshay wrote...
And there is NO canon ending. Why do you want that there will be one?

There will be. As soon as they decide to make a sequel in the future, they'll pick a canon choice.

The canon ending will not be Synthesis. It's the hardest ending to justify a sequel to, since it's difficult to find an entertaining conflict when everyone is living in nirvana.

The canon ending will most likely be Destroy, so that Bioware can "prove" to the fans that, in their universe, synthetics and organics always go to war. It's one of the oldest and most overused video game plots, and it is sitting there plain as day so they have an easy monster to chose when they decide to make a non-prequel new Mass Effect. 

Although technically it could be Control, but only if Shepard ends as deranged as the Catalyst and becomes the next enemy. 

Either way, I'm calling it here first. If they ever make a Mass Effect after 3, they will canonize the Destroy ending.

[Unschuld]

 Shepard took the advice from the reaper hive-mind he met 5 minutes ago and killed himself in the hopes that it would create an unrealistic, retarded and laughably stupid idealistic utopia. Totally the most asinine and moronic decision devoid of higher thought process legit sacrifice ever.

[incinerator950]

DinoSteve wrote...
hmmm might replay kotor 1 & 2 again

They invalidated your major decision of Kotor1 to give a valid reason of the state of the Republic/Galaxy in Kotor2.  They also explained it over the course of the game.  The two prevelant choices of Kotor1 that carry weight was Revans gender (a few minor things) and the outcome of the Starforge, which is always destroyed regardless of a Republic or Sith victory. 

This would be to make it easier, a Sith controlled government across the Galaxy would be a lot different then a beurocratic Republic with several worlds trying to recover from the war.  Every other major decision in K1 is hardly recognized. 

[memorysquid]

ghost9191 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No, I think I read somewhere synthesis was their preferred ending.

I could have told you that pre-EC.  They obviously favor it because Shepard sacrifices the most and creates the best galactic outcome, i.e., he's the biggest hero in synthesis.

might have to disagree with the hero thing. i wouldn't like being turned against my will and might dispise him for it. well unless i was brainwashed:?

You can always kill yourself in the Synthesis universe.  Really though I was just referring to the theme.  Synthesis is the one ending where Shep is definitely, immediately gone.  He dives right in and poof!  That ending is presented as the best.  Reapers are helping rebuild everything and surpass the heights of civilizations gone by.  Control, he dies but a copy lives, and the Reapers help some, but they are more of a galactic peace or for renegades police force.  Destroy he lives, the Reapers die as does all their knowledge, plus the Geth and EDI and a lot of technolgical infrastructure to boot - rebuild happens eventually with no Reaper help, presumably some collateral damage as a result. 

And where does the brainwashing come from?  Just curious.  I didn't see the game mention anything like that.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

memorysquid wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No, I think I read somewhere synthesis was their preferred ending.

I could have told you that pre-EC.  They obviously favor it because Shepard sacrifices the most and creates the best galactic outcome, i.e., he's the biggest hero in synthesis.

might have to disagree with the hero thing. i wouldn't like being turned against my will and might dispise him for it. well unless i was brainwashed:?

You can always kill yourself in the Synthesis universe.  Really though I was just referring to the theme.  Synthesis is the one ending where Shep is definitely, immediately gone.  He dives right in and poof!  That ending is presented as the best.  Reapers are helping rebuild everything and surpass the heights of civilizations gone by.  Control, he dies but a copy lives, and the Reapers help some, but they are more of a galactic peace or for renegades police force.  Destroy he lives, the Reapers die as does all their knowledge, plus the Geth and EDI and a lot of technolgical infrastructure to boot - rebuild happens eventually with no Reaper help, presumably some collateral damage as a result. 

And where does the brainwashing come from?  Just curious.  I didn't see the game mention anything like that.

I don't think they get brain washed but I would say they lose their individualism and free will and to some extent they would have a hive mind.

[sammysoso]

I think it's there's an unintended bias towards Synthesis, kind of in the way that Liara seems to be the "canon" LI.

I doubt it's intentional though, they put a good deal of effort into the other endings.

[TheCrazyHobo]

They intended the endings to have pro's and con's and have people discuss the ending's different choices. HOWEVER, there is ***speculation*** that Destroy may be the "canon" ending because of the breath scene. I read somewhere that it was flagged differently in the game files...but I don't who said it or their source.

[ghost9191]

memorysquid wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No, I think I read somewhere synthesis was their preferred ending.

I could have told you that pre-EC.  They obviously favor it because Shepard sacrifices the most and creates the best galactic outcome, i.e., he's the biggest hero in synthesis.

might have to disagree with the hero thing. i wouldn't like being turned against my will and might dispise him for it. well unless i was brainwashed:?

You can always kill yourself in the Synthesis universe.  Really though I was just referring to the theme.  Synthesis is the one ending where Shep is definitely, immediately gone.  He dives right in and poof!  That ending is presented as the best.  Reapers are helping rebuild everything and surpass the heights of civilizations gone by.  Control, he dies but a copy lives, and the Reapers help some, but they are more of a galactic peace or for renegades police force.  Destroy he lives, the Reapers die as does all their knowledge, plus the Geth and EDI and a lot of technolgical infrastructure to boot - rebuild happens eventually with no Reaper help, presumably some collateral damage as a result. 

And where does the brainwashing come from?  Just curious.  I didn't see the game mention anything like that.

it was a joke, was just saying i wouldn't think of shep as a hero unless i was brainwashed to in synthesis.

and that is why i like destroy. gives the races the chance to build their own future without the influence of the reapers, i mean gaining their knowledge of races they turned int ogoo is nice and all but well idk

[Unschuld]

memorysquid wrote...
And where does the brainwashing come from?  Just curious.  I didn't see the game mention anything like that.

Perhaps has something to do with the tone of EDI's narration. Going from a personality that regards the reapers with disgust to "the reapers are wonderful and all happy and stuff! I love them!", and that brainwashing and utopias often go hand-in-hand.

[malakim2099]

agu123 wrote...

Do not be afraid. Synthesis is peace. Synthesis is salvation.

I must not choose Synthesis.
Synthesis is the thought killer.
Synthesis is the little death that brings total stagnation.
I will face Control.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see the Path
When Control is gone there will be Destroy
Only I will remain.

[ghost9191]

Unschuld wrote...

memorysquid wrote...
And where does the brainwashing come from?  Just curious.  I didn't see the game mention anything like that.

Perhaps has something to do with the tone of EDI's narration. Going from a personality that regards the reapers with disgust to "the reapers are wonderful and all happy and stuff! I love them!", and that brainwashing and utopias often go hand-in-hand.

or that, i mean hard to believe things would be all sunshine and bunnies with the reapers, not after what they just did to the galaxy. even if they were controlled ppl would still hate them for it. so for them to just be accepting of tehm i would think they would be affected mentally somehow but thats just me

of course edi didn't go into great detail but still, she did come off different, not the same edi i grew to like and felt sad for when i chose destroy

Modifié par ghost9191, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:35 .

[alienatedflea]

clennon8 wrote...

The problem with debating Synthesis is that pro-Synths want to start with the result and work their way backwards to justifying the path they took to get there. Cheating at solitaire, as I like to call it. Whereas the rest of us are trying to start with the decision point and work out the correct path forward using contextual information. Arguing is pointless when the two sides are coming at it from such different angles.

well that kind of logic is AKA "The end justifies the means."  and if you listen to the starchild...he explains that synthesis is something that can NOT be forced...so to say synthesis is forced on everyone is stupid

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

alienatedflea wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

The problem with debating Synthesis is that pro-Synths want to start with the result and work their way backwards to justifying the path they took to get there. Cheating at solitaire, as I like to call it. Whereas the rest of us are trying to start with the decision point and work out the correct path forward using contextual information. Arguing is pointless when the two sides are coming at it from such different angles.

well that kind of logic is AKA "The end justifies the means."  and if you listen to the starchild...he explains that synthesis is something that can NOT be forced...so to say synthesis is forced on everyone is stupid

So Shepard went round and asked everyone there permission before jumping into the beam?

[chidingewe8036]

ok you guys..........

I personally think all of the choices are The Reapers' way of manipulating Shepard's mind, what if all three choices were wrong? I think refusal was the best imo, not because everyone dies but because Shepard verbally says basically F you your choices suck and I am not going to do what you suggest or tell me to do.

When the star boy says "So Be It" I think that is the moment The Reapers show what they truelly are........EVIL!!!!

Does Soverign voice ring a bell? If they take the Indoctrination Theory into account (which I really think they should) and they decide to do a good refusal ending I think the perfect time to wake Shepard up would be right after star boy says "So Be It" and the screen turns black and says loading. After which Shepard would wake up on the ground right before he entered the beam and Harbinger would be there and says "Shepard, if you refuse to choose you will die". (or something cool like that lol)

Then all of sudden a massive air scene showing The Normandy returning with some back up and and blinding firepower to distract Harbinger just long enough for your chosen LI to land a shuttle and extract Shepard.