426 réponses à ce sujet

[Tritium315]

Sure as **** was better than 3's.

[Jackums]

In terms of story, Mass Effect is my favourite, and IMO, the best.

But gameplay-wise? Mass Effect was painful. My head hurts just thinking about the gameplay. ME2 and ME3 both beat it easily in that regard, even with the the whole dialogue issue. And I don't think I even have to mention ME2's vastly superior characters/character development. I categorise them based on their winning points. Eg.

ME = Story
ME2 = Characters
ME3 = Gameplay


@"plotholes": I'm honestly not bothered. I find, too often, people are looking for things to crtitcise. And I doubt there's any game out there that you couldn't find gaps in logic in. There's nothing in the ME series that's so horrendously retarded that it aggravates me. I'd bet that if people weren't so dissatisfied with the endings, all of this "plothole" drama wouldn't be nearly as significant. People are being fueled by their feelings towards the whole ending issue.

Modifié par JackumsD, 04 juillet 2012 - 09:50 .

[Drake-Shepard]

txgoldrush wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

No, its freaking Reaper, a vanguard...he should know what went wrong with the Citadel.

Nevermind plot hole no. 2....all the stupid UNRELATED TO THE PLOT favors Shepard does during the race against time.

Well it doesn't.

That second part happens in pretty much all RPGs that have some sort of big bad bearing down upon the world. No matter how tense the situation is, no matter how close the universe is to utter destruction, there's always someone out there who needs help fighting mudcrabs, and you're the only one available.

So because other RPGs have this plot hole, its ok for ME1 to have it? A plot hole is a plot hole.

And yet he searches for the Conduit after Eden Prime, face it, its a plot hole. He searches for it before his exile. For all his effort, he is searching for nothing but a back door. He isn;t "playing detective" for Soverign.

not sure if trolling or stupid 

What evidence is there that Saren was looking for reasons why the signal didn't work?...there is none. He was searching for the Conduit the entire time after Eden Prime.

All Saren really had to do is go into the Citadel, betray everyone while Soverign destroys all resistance outside and take the Citadel, closing the arms for good measure.

Saren can;t fight all of c-sec on his own. that was not an option. He would need to get an army in the back door.
He also needed the Thorian to decipher half of what he learnt

Sovereign was searching for 2000 years...the timing is confusing...did sovereign find out what the conduit was before saren...or did they find out together?

QUESTIONS ARE NOT PLOT HOLES. We do not need to know the specifics. The amount of information, revelations, and twists already expressed in ME1 is ridiculous.... how woud all this extra unneccessary information be revealed to the gamer. ME1 does have a few plot holes....but you have mentioned none of them... just petty stuff. If your going to critisize something..you have to understand it first.

[txgoldrush]

Cirreus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote..

the humanistic driven story of ME3 is far better...why? Because the characters are allowed to really be a part of it other than one key mission. Nevermind ME3 was the most consistant in its theme.

Are you trying to say that Welch's grape juice is better than the 1973 Montelena Chardonnay because, the grape juice has a "Healthy Life" heart shaped sticker on the outside ?

"most consistent in its theme" ... did you not watch THIS ? The entire ME series theme was about "over coming the odds". Then it goes all technophobia (I hear Mac Walters is a Luddite) and ExCut graces us with a power point presentation by the same team responsible for Tali'Zorah vas Photoshop.

You Sir (or Madam) just have bad taste.

When does the ME3 ending change themes? It doesn't......Shepard did overcome all odds, he ended the cycle that has never done before. The theme is consistant, while keeping ME3's theme of sacrifice consistant.

Quit being ignorant.

Hell, the organics/synthetics theme isn't even the most important theme in the Catlyst sequence either, nevermind the fact that organics/synthetics were discussed throught ME3 and even in the series.

[Tirranek]

Cirreus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote..

the humanistic driven story of ME3 is far better...why? Because the characters are allowed to really be a part of it other than one key mission. Nevermind ME3 was the most consistant in its theme.

Are you trying to say that Welch's grape juice is better than the 1973 Montelena Chardonnay because, the grape juice has a "Healthy Life" heart shaped sticker on the outside ?

"most consistent in its theme" ... did you not watch THIS ? The entire ME series theme was about "over coming the odds". Then it goes all technophobia (I hear Mac Walters is a Luddite) and ExCut graces us with a power point presentation by the same team responsible for Tali'Zorah vas Photoshop.

You Sir (or Madam) just have bad taste.

I don't think it's technophobic to suggest that any civilization, if given enough time, will create something that they can't control and that will doom them in some way or another. It's a recurring theme in a lot of great fiction. The problem with the idea in ME3 was that it wasn't presented as well as it could have been.

[txgoldrush]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

No, its freaking Reaper, a vanguard...he should know what went wrong with the Citadel.

Nevermind plot hole no. 2....all the stupid UNRELATED TO THE PLOT favors Shepard does during the race against time.

Well it doesn't.

That second part happens in pretty much all RPGs that have some sort of big bad bearing down upon the world. No matter how tense the situation is, no matter how close the universe is to utter destruction, there's always someone out there who needs help fighting mudcrabs, and you're the only one available.

So because other RPGs have this plot hole, its ok for ME1 to have it? A plot hole is a plot hole.

And yet he searches for the Conduit after Eden Prime, face it, its a plot hole. He searches for it before his exile. For all his effort, he is searching for nothing but a back door. He isn;t "playing detective" for Soverign.

not sure if trolling or stupid 

What evidence is there that Saren was looking for reasons why the signal didn't work?...there is none. He was searching for the Conduit the entire time after Eden Prime.

All Saren really had to do is go into the Citadel, betray everyone while Soverign destroys all resistance outside and take the Citadel, closing the arms for good measure.

Saren can;t fight all of c-sec on his own. that was not an option. He would need to get an army in the back door.
He also needed the Thorian to decipher half of what he learnt

Sovereign was searching for 2000 years...the timing is confusing...did sovereign find out what the conduit was before saren...or did they find out together?

QUESTIONS ARE NOT PLOT HOLES. We do not need to know the specifics. The amount of information, revelations, and twists already expressed in ME1 is ridiculous.... how woud all this extra unneccessary information be revealed to the gamer. ME1 does have a few plot holes....but you have mentioned none of them... just petty stuff. If your going to critisize something..you have to understand it first.

He did not need the ciper, beacon, or anything.....just an army, which he has. He reaches console, Soverign closes the station, Game Over. No mystical object hunt needed. No one would know what the hell happened.

"QUESTIONS ARE NOT PLOT HOLES. We do not need to know the specifics. "

Tell that to ME3 haters....hypocrisy runs deep here at BSN. If ME3 is space magic, so is ME1.

[Prosarian]

txgoldrush wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So because other RPGs have this plot hole, its ok for ME1 to have it? A plot hole is a plot hole.

And yet he searches for the Conduit after Eden Prime, face it, its a plot hole. He searches for it before his exile. For all his effort, he is searching for nothing but a back door. He isn;t "playing detective" for Soverign.

You're grasping pretty desperately at this point, so ME1 having side-quests is a plot hole?

Well he is playing detective, hence the attack on Eden Prime. As for why he's searching for the Conduit, he probably thinks it has something to do with the sabotage and they're still pretty much figuring things out at this point. Even if that wasn't the case, he needs to get to the Citadel controls before Sovereign and the Geth attacked the Citadel fleet. Anyway, it's always good to have a plan B.

Just admit it, ME2 and 3 had far greater plot holes thatn ME1. It had a decent space opera story that was cohesive and made sense.

Please, you are making stuff up here...what evidence do you have that Sraen thinks this and that. Face it, all Soverign has to do is get to the Citadel and close its arms and go to work...thats it, he is safe. No Shepard then.

What evidence do you have?

Well Sovereign has to figure out what went wrong first, I keep saying that and you keep ignoring it. It's like you're being obtuse on purpose.

Modifié par Prosarian, 04 juillet 2012 - 09:58 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

jreezy wrote...

^That is just amazing. I want to play that Mass Effect.

Me too.

Prosarian wrote...

That is really awesome.

I almost started a "fixed" ME2 plot, but yeah...that would be rather long.

[txgoldrush]

Tirranek wrote...

Cirreus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote..

the humanistic driven story of ME3 is far better...why? Because the characters are allowed to really be a part of it other than one key mission. Nevermind ME3 was the most consistant in its theme.

Are you trying to say that Welch's grape juice is better than the 1973 Montelena Chardonnay because, the grape juice has a "Healthy Life" heart shaped sticker on the outside ?

"most consistent in its theme" ... did you not watch THIS ? The entire ME series theme was about "over coming the odds". Then it goes all technophobia (I hear Mac Walters is a Luddite) and ExCut graces us with a power point presentation by the same team responsible for Tali'Zorah vas Photoshop.

You Sir (or Madam) just have bad taste.

I don't think it's technophobic to suggest that any civilization, if given enough time, will create something that they can't control and that will doom them in some way or another. It's a recurring theme in a lot of great fiction. The problem with the idea in ME3 was that it wasn't presented as well as it could have been.

However, in the Catalyst scene, even then, its not the main theme of the scene....sacrifice still is, thats where the debate goes in Shepards eyes.

[What a Succulent Ass]

If ME3 is space magic, so is ME1.

You've really been reaching this entire time, but I have to ask: where is the "space magic" in ME1?

[Prosarian]

Random Jerkface wrote...

jreezy wrote...

^That is just amazing. I want to play that Mass Effect.

Me too.

Prosarian wrote...

That is really awesome.

I almost started a "fixed" ME2 plot, but yeah...that would be rather long.

Too long. Loved ME2, but the main plot didn't make much sense.

[txgoldrush]

Prosarian wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So because other RPGs have this plot hole, its ok for ME1 to have it? A plot hole is a plot hole.

And yet he searches for the Conduit after Eden Prime, face it, its a plot hole. He searches for it before his exile. For all his effort, he is searching for nothing but a back door. He isn;t "playing detective" for Soverign.

You're grasping pretty desperately at this point, so ME1 having side-quests is a plot hole?

Well he is playing detective, hence the attack on Eden Prime. As for why he's searching for the Conduit, he probably thinks it has something to do with the sabotage and they're still pretty much figuring things out at this point. Even if that wasn't the case, he needs to get to the Citadel controls before Sovereign and the Geth attacked the Citadel fleet. Anyway, it's always good to have a plan B.

Just admit it, ME2 and 3 had far greater plot holes thatn ME1. It had a decent space opera story that was cohesive and made sense.

Please, you are making stuff up here...what evidence do you have that Sraen thinks this and that. Face it, all Soverign has to do is get to the Citadel and close its arms and go to work...thats it, he is safe. No Shepard then.

What evidence do you have?

No, its you that are doing it...no where inME1 does it state that Saren and Soverign are trying to get around the signal block by finding the Conduit. The Conduit is an absolutely unnecessary MacGuffin for the antagonist, until his exile, which never should have occured because he never needed said MacGuffin.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Prosarian wrote...

Too long. Loved ME2, but the main plot didn't make much sense.

Yes, the main story is quite an impressive idiot plot (even had a tl;dr about it a while back), which is too bad, because the character stories are great.

It could definitely still be salvaged without changing everything, but the tweaks would still be significant. As much as I hate to say it, ME2 is responsible for upsetting the overall arc of the story. ME3 wouldn't be half the mess it is had ME2 picked up where the first game left off.

[Drake-Shepard]

txgoldrush wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

ME1 was not perfect but the main story arc is in a different league then ME2,3

OP says Shepard just goes with the 'reaper theory' after one convenient vision and a saren soundbite?
Atleast we had the soundbite....then add the established reaper rumours in the lore already, and the fact that saren has robots working for them. It's not that big a leap.
And everyone doesn't go along with it.....the narrative does make you question it...the council keep telling you saren is tricking you.
I for example believed the council...but was still motivated to find saren after he slaughtered half of Eden Prime. Shepard and Anderson even decide after Eden Prime ' to find out whatever Saren is up to and stop it'.

The storyline had plenty of motivation and made sense.Stuff was actually forshadowed! Twists were done brilliantly. It was in fact well written.

Obviously there are little mini plot holes if you over analyse...like why didn't saren just shoot the beacon on eden prime after using it and that soundbite was convenient. But compare that to ME3, where the reapers get the citadel off screen anyway but don't turn off the relays? their greatest tactical advantage? etc etc

Now what story holds much much more weight

Before the final battle, they had almost every race's world, or were sieging it. Rannoch the exception. They don't need to turn the relays off, and hell, the Catalyst ADMITS THEY UNDERESTIMATED ORGANICS. They did not know they had the Crucible. Why divide and conquer as well when you can bait and destroy.

ME3 had foreshadowing as well, you just didn;t pay attention. The Reaper on Rannoch foreshadowing the Catalyst's motives. The conversation between Hackett, Anderson, and Shep wondering about how they would fire the Crucible without killing everything. Many thematic foreshadows.

And ME1 simply fails to really develop anyone other than Wrex and Saren.

They don;t need to turn the relays off.???...each reaper is a species...when a reaper dies..thats 50k years of a civilisation down the pan....i think they would use any advantage they could get. yeah the reapers will win anyway but with more loses....in every other cycle why switch off the relays then in every other cycle,..if they 'underestimate organics'

hahaahha i am fully aware of the cut and paste 'forshadowing' in ME3. 
First of all none of the relevant ME3 forshadowing is in an earlier game of the trilogy or is in any lore. Straight away it feels contrived.

The cut and paste forshadowing in ME3 added last minute and feels out of place. a random reaper in rannoch (the most out of place conversation in all 3 games), javik convo and vendetta talking about same cycle of peak's and trophs...is not forshadowing its a joke

ME1 fails to develop characters?? ..well they didn't have extensive ME2 writing...but you've just been introduced to a new universe....some things take a hit. You got to learn about the life stories on all your squad mates...ashley's family, motivation's..garrus becomes more paragon or renegade. The characters interact in lifts depending on which ones you take. taking characters on missions lets them add their own perspective...wrex and ashley give you different advice to liara when deciding on the rachni queen,
For a new universe, strong main story and budget constraints....I think the character development in ME1 was the best we could get.
I think it's you that didn't pay attention

[What a Succulent Ass]

No, its you that are doing it...no where inME1 does it state that Saren and Soverign are trying to get around the signal block by finding the Conduit.

But what the hell else would they be trying to do with it?

If anything, you should be taking issue with the fact Tali has that recording despite the Eden Prime incident taking place only 18 hours before, yet Michel talks as if Tali reached the Citadel days ago.

[What a Succulent Ass]

They don;t need to turn the relays off.???...each reaper is a species...when a reaper dies..thats 50k years of a civilisation down the pan.

Not to mention that this is their main tactic (the entire plot of ME1) and has been for eons. And that's when the cycle doesn't have forewarning.

[Tirranek]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

Too long. Loved ME2, but the main plot didn't make much sense.

Yes, the main story is quite an impressive idiot plot (even had a tl;dr about it a while back), which is too bad, because the character stories are great.

It could definitely still be salvaged without changing everything, but the tweaks would still be significant. As much as I hate to say it, ME2 is responsible for upsetting the overall arc of the story. ME3 wouldn't be half the mess it is had ME2 picked up where the first game left off.

Here's a question I've been pondering. Do you reckon ME2 would have been better if it had kept the Geth as the primary antagonists, in a way that eventually led to discovering the schism between heretics and the rest? I could see how a story involving this conflict could create an interesting overall plot, resulting in, say, a suicide mission to knock out the source of what was corrupting the Geth.

[txgoldrush]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

ME1 was not perfect but the main story arc is in a different league then ME2,3

OP says Shepard just goes with the 'reaper theory' after one convenient vision and a saren soundbite?
Atleast we had the soundbite....then add the established reaper rumours in the lore already, and the fact that saren has robots working for them. It's not that big a leap.
And everyone doesn't go along with it.....the narrative does make you question it...the council keep telling you saren is tricking you.
I for example believed the council...but was still motivated to find saren after he slaughtered half of Eden Prime. Shepard and Anderson even decide after Eden Prime ' to find out whatever Saren is up to and stop it'.

The storyline had plenty of motivation and made sense.Stuff was actually forshadowed! Twists were done brilliantly. It was in fact well written.

Obviously there are little mini plot holes if you over analyse...like why didn't saren just shoot the beacon on eden prime after using it and that soundbite was convenient. But compare that to ME3, where the reapers get the citadel off screen anyway but don't turn off the relays? their greatest tactical advantage? etc etc

Now what story holds much much more weight

Before the final battle, they had almost every race's world, or were sieging it. Rannoch the exception. They don't need to turn the relays off, and hell, the Catalyst ADMITS THEY UNDERESTIMATED ORGANICS. They did not know they had the Crucible. Why divide and conquer as well when you can bait and destroy.

ME3 had foreshadowing as well, you just didn;t pay attention. The Reaper on Rannoch foreshadowing the Catalyst's motives. The conversation between Hackett, Anderson, and Shep wondering about how they would fire the Crucible without killing everything. Many thematic foreshadows.

And ME1 simply fails to really develop anyone other than Wrex and Saren.

They don;t need to turn the relays off.???...each reaper is a species...when a reaper dies..thats 50k years of a civilisation down the pan....i think they would use any advantage they could get. yeah the reapers will win anyway but with more loses....in every other cycle why switch off the relays then in every other cycle,..if they 'underestimate organics'

hahaahha i am fully aware of the cut and paste 'forshadowing' in ME3. 
First of all none of the relevant ME3 forshadowing is in an earlier game of the trilogy or is in any lore. Straight away it feels contrived.

The cut and paste forshadowing in ME3 added last minute and feels out of place. a random reaper in rannoch (the most out of place conversation in all 3 games), javik convo and vendetta talking about same cycle of peak's and trophs...is not forshadowing its a joke

ME1 fails to develop characters?? ..well they didn't have extensive ME2 writing...but you've just been introduced to a new universe....some things take a hit. You got to learn about the life stories on all your squad mates...ashley's family, motivation's..garrus becomes more paragon or renegade. The characters interact in lifts depending on which ones you take. taking characters on missions lets them add their own perspective...wrex and ashley give you different advice to liara when deciding on the rachni queen,
For a new universe, strong main story and budget constraints....I think the character development in ME1 was the best we could get.
I think it's you that didn't pay attention

Wrong

Wrex and Wreav leading the clan in ME2 foreshadows their respective paths in ME3, Xen finding out about Tali's father's experiements in ME2 foreshadows ME3. Harbinger saying destruction is your salvation foreshadows ME3. TIM's reaction to keeping the base shows that he has something to hide.

Thats not character development, thats character establishment. Do not confuse the two. None of the characters truly grow outside of Wrex. They are all flat characters, not round ones.

Rannoch reaper out of place? Please....he uses the same terms Soverign uses....bringing order to the chaos of evolution.

[Drake-Shepard]

double post. see below

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 04 juillet 2012 - 10:36 .

[Drake-Shepard]

txgoldrush wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

ME1 was not perfect but the main story arc is in a different league then ME2,3

OP says Shepard just goes with the 'reaper theory' after one convenient vision and a saren soundbite?
Atleast we had the soundbite....then add the established reaper rumours in the lore already, and the fact that saren has robots working for them. It's not that big a leap.
And everyone doesn't go along with it.....the narrative does make you question it...the council keep telling you saren is tricking you.
I for example believed the council...but was still motivated to find saren after he slaughtered half of Eden Prime. Shepard and Anderson even decide after Eden Prime ' to find out whatever Saren is up to and stop it'.

The storyline had plenty of motivation and made sense.Stuff was actually forshadowed! Twists were done brilliantly. It was in fact well written.

Obviously there are little mini plot holes if you over analyse...like why didn't saren just shoot the beacon on eden prime after using it and that soundbite was convenient. But compare that to ME3, where the reapers get the citadel off screen anyway but don't turn off the relays? their greatest tactical advantage? etc etc

Now what story holds much much more weight

Before the final battle, they had almost every race's world, or were sieging it. Rannoch the exception. They don't need to turn the relays off, and hell, the Catalyst ADMITS THEY UNDERESTIMATED ORGANICS. They did not know they had the Crucible. Why divide and conquer as well when you can bait and destroy.

ME3 had foreshadowing as well, you just didn;t pay attention. The Reaper on Rannoch foreshadowing the Catalyst's motives. The conversation between Hackett, Anderson, and Shep wondering about how they would fire the Crucible without killing everything. Many thematic foreshadows.

And ME1 simply fails to really develop anyone other than Wrex and Saren.

They don;t need to turn the relays off.???...each reaper is a species...when a reaper dies..thats 50k years of a civilisation down the pan....i think they would use any advantage they could get. yeah the reapers will win anyway but with more loses....in every other cycle why switch off the relays then in every other cycle,..if they 'underestimate organics'

hahaahha i am fully aware of the cut and paste 'forshadowing' in ME3. 
First of all none of the relevant ME3 forshadowing is in an earlier game of the trilogy or is in any lore. Straight away it feels contrived.

The cut and paste forshadowing in ME3 added last minute and feels out of place. a random reaper in rannoch (the most out of place conversation in all 3 games), javik convo and vendetta talking about same cycle of peak's and trophs...is not forshadowing its a joke

ME1 fails to develop characters?? ..well they didn't have extensive ME2 writing...but you've just been introduced to a new universe....some things take a hit. You got to learn about the life stories on all your squad mates...ashley's family, motivation's..garrus becomes more paragon or renegade. The characters interact in lifts depending on which ones you take. taking characters on missions lets them add their own perspective...wrex and ashley give you different advice to liara when deciding on the rachni queen,
For a new universe, strong main story and budget constraints....I think the character development in ME1 was the best we could get.
I think it's you that didn't pay attention

Wrong

Wrex and Wreav leading the clan in ME2 foreshadows their respective paths in ME3, Xen finding out about Tali's father's experiements in ME2 foreshadows ME3. Harbinger saying destruction is your salvation foreshadows ME3. TIM's reaction to keeping the base shows that he has something to hide.

Thats not character development, thats character establishment. Do not confuse the two. None of the characters truly grow outside of Wrex. They are all flat characters, not round ones.

Rannoch reaper out of place? Please....he uses the same terms Soverign uses....bringing order to the chaos of evolution.

1. i agreed that me1 character devolpement is not on the same level as ME2, but me1 still has enough..and your respond by telling me ME2 character development? well  ok thanx, i know.
2. not what we were discussing but yh the tuchunka and rannoch related story arcs are brilliant...forshdaowing and build up from previous games.
3. 'destruction is your salvation' is so open ended. it was repeated in the same breath as 'prepare them for ascension' ...both of them are more about reapers thinking they are the apex of evolution. And you should want to be like them but can't understand it etc etc. This was one of the real overarching themes that was ignored. what it means to be alive, is shepard alive, are the geth alive, does this unit have a soul (now an independent personality and all-while the reapers are not) etc etc
4. i am talking about the main story arc's of both games. rannoch reaper forshadowing has nothing to to with tali's dad and wrex. 
youtube sovereign convo again..sovereign refers to chaos as human evolution. a genetic accident etc etc and apparently says it is too difficult to understand,
In ME3 it changes to chaos is the proccess of organics becoming advanced and making AI's, that beleive in order so much they kill organics forever. Wait....so reapers are stopping the order and reseting the chaos so we can have more chaos. I thought they didn't like chaos.?
Basically the writers in ME3...thought ok we need a new idea for the reaper motivation for some reason...lets look back at stuff that is said...look sovereign mentioned chaos and order...lets adapt that. Its a bit different...but no1 will notice

Oh and it looks you you ignore 2/3 of my points and focused on 1. looks i win..
5.keeping relays open remember? good or bad idea
hell yh!

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:20 .

[Drake-Shepard]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Prosarian wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So because other RPGs have this plot hole, its ok for ME1 to have it? A plot hole is a plot hole.

And yet he searches for the Conduit after Eden Prime, face it, its a plot hole. He searches for it before his exile. For all his effort, he is searching for nothing but a back door. He isn;t "playing detective" for Soverign.

You're grasping pretty desperately at this point, so ME1 having side-quests is a plot hole?

Well he is playing detective, hence the attack on Eden Prime. As for why he's searching for the Conduit, he probably thinks it has something to do with the sabotage and they're still pretty much figuring things out at this point. Even if that wasn't the case, he needs to get to the Citadel controls before Sovereign and the Geth attacked the Citadel fleet. Anyway, it's always good to have a plan B.

Just admit it, ME2 and 3 had far greater plot holes thatn ME1. It had a decent space opera story that was cohesive and made sense.

Please, you are making stuff up here...what evidence do you have that Sraen thinks this and that. Face it, all Soverign has to do is get to the Citadel and close its arms and go to work...thats it, he is safe. No Shepard then.

What evidence do you have?

No, its you that are doing it...no where inME1 does it state that Saren and Soverign are trying to get around the signal block by finding the Conduit. The Conduit is an absolutely unnecessary MacGuffin for the antagonist, until his exile, which never should have occured because he never needed said MacGuffin.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

messed up quoting lol

Thats the point of ME1 isn't it...we don;t know what they are doing specifically...we are trying to find out what they are doing and stop them. what is the conduit??!!
We are kind of tracing saren's steps going to feros and noveria. This also provides us with the information to answer those questions
Remember Sovereign has been gathering information for over 2000 years.
At eden prime he finds more information about the conduit project (there is already a beacon at virmire)
the thorian in feros provides the cypher so saren can understand the beacon.
He now knows he has to go to Ilos.
The racnhi queen is old with genetic memory so knows where they relay to ilos has been moved to (due to the supernova or something)
In virmire his preparing an army either to attack the citadel with more force, or to help the reapers when they come. His also analysing his own indoctrination.
(if the game was made linear...the story line would be stronger and easier to follow..but they wanted to make it open and rpgy-ish)

He can't just attack the citadel...the citadel will close before they get inside it. or it won't close once sovereign gets inside because sovereign can't control that part. there is a constant turian etc fleet around the citadel. He needs to go through the conduit...and keep the citadel open for soverign before he gets there and close it when he does.
one reaper and geth army can't fight all the turian/allaince ships!


Saren goes in through a back door with an army...surprise attack...keep the citadel open and closes it when soverign gets inside...ANDDDD correct me on this if  i am wrong..he closes off the relay so the alliance fleet can't help the turians.. Shepard opens the relay to let the 5th fleet etc through for much needed backup...then decided weather or not to open the citadel yet

SO THE CONDUIT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO ACCOMPLISH SOVERIEGNS PLAN.
No saren could not just fly in undercover with a ship..one ship of geth is not enough...c-sec is huge. More ships will attract to much attention.
Attacking with brute force would not work either....they would lose, c-sec would either close the citadel before sovereign got inside or keep it open and sovereign would be exposed. Alliance ships and other ships will pour in from the relay as backup and kill them all.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND. i Said the same thing in 3 different ways for you

[Roamingmachine]

About Soverign having to take a detour to get to the Citadel in ME1....Remember that the Citadels' main defence is its ability close itself.Soverign had to be inside the arms do his thing and that wouldn't have been possible if he would have warped in with an armada without having Saren holding off the closing of the Citadel untill he was ready.

Edit: Must learn to read preseding posts >.<  Poster above me says all this better.

Modifié par Roamingmachine, 04 juillet 2012 - 10:57 .

[tonnactus]

Random Jerkface wrote...


Makes one wonder, if the Council is so easily swayed by audio, why did Shepard use her/his suit recordings?

Its not just audio,its extracted from a geth data core. Speculation: It was a format not used by citadel species,so they could verify it as true. Also what interest a young quarian on her pilgrimage could have to invent wild stories about the reapers? The geth as a threat are enough.

Modifié par tonnactus, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:28 .

[xSTONEYx187x]

Mass Effect 1 & 2 are so much better than 3.

The obscene amounts of shooting, over and over and over and over and over and over, in ME 3 is head wrecking.

My problem with Mass Effect 3 is, too much action, not enough interaction, ala, auto-dialogue.

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:58 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Tirranek wrote...

Here's a question I've been pondering. Do you reckon ME2 would have been better if it had kept the Geth as the primary antagonists, in a way that eventually led to discovering the schism between heretics and the rest? I could see how a story involving this conflict could create an interesting overall plot, resulting in, say, a suicide mission to knock out the source of what was corrupting the Geth.

I like the idea of the geth plot twist arising naturally (instead of being a loyalty side quest), but without Sovereign, I'm not sure the geth would make much sense as a primary antagonist. Legion definitely should have turned up earlier, though, even if it was just a sighting. Perhaps Shepard sees him on Freedom's progress (making the geth the first suspects in the disappearances) and attacks him? At any rate, if I had to change the overall arc of the ME story, it'd be:

ME1: Learn of reaper threat; stop first invasion
ME2: Learn more about reapers, their weaknesses, build alliances; reapers invade at the end of the game (downer ending)
ME3: Reaper war

The reason (one of them, any way) ME3 is so incredibly wack is because it tries to do ME2's job as well as its own. But what's done is done. If I had to change ME2 specifically (without changing major plot points--it'd be a very different story otherwise), just roughly, off the top of my head:

- Make the characters plot-relevant, for heaven's sake: With that ME1 fanfiction changes outline I wrote, Samara (asari factions), Zaeed (merc faction liaison), Mordin (part of STG Binary Helix investigation), Legion (introduced in ME1; geth schism foreshadowed by interest in quarians singing), Garrus (link to merc faction on Omega), Jacob, Miranda, Jack (Cerberus' first attempt at übermenschen), and Grunt (formula for "perfect" krogan first introduced in ME1) all have reasons for being there that logically follow previously introduced elements instead of TIM just pulling dossiers from his arse. Part of the game's would be unravelling why TIM chose who he did, as he would always choose with the ulterior motive of strengthening Cerberus/humanity.

- Give former squad mates better reasons for sitting on their arse for two years than "herp derp": Seriously. Just do it. If they can't join you, then still allow them some plot relevance (ex: Liara providing intelligence on asari politics/doing information broker-y things, the VS passing intel/tech to Alliance brass for Shepard since Shepard is being stonewalled).

- Make gathering alliances and information count: The game should be predominantly about the broken state of galactic politics/figuring out the connection between reapers/collectors and more about reapers, not your squad members horrendous daddy issues.

- Make the collector general a sympathetic anti-villain: If ever there was a time to use dreams as a plot device, it would now. The CG is not a clone, but a prothean with some of its mind remaining, desperately fighting against its eons-long indoctrmutation and cybernetic mutation (would go nicely with a theme of bodily sovereignty as a parallel to what happens to Shep during Project Lazarus). It tries to contact Shepard mentally (using the cipher? **** if I know), giving Sheard terrifying nightmares that become clearer as the plot goes on. The CG was Shepard to destroy them, thus explaining Harbinger's semi-boner for Shepard and the collectors not blowing up the Normandy instead of just abducting the crew.

- No Reapernator: Until someone can tell me why this was a *good* idea, no. Just no...unless one could somehow make it relevant to ME3 and it was done properly to(somewhat) make sense and bolster the theme of bodily sovereignty.

- Make the Council, TIM, and Shepard less pants-on-head idiotic: These would follow if the story continued with my fanfiction hypothetical political threads, as would the latter if Shepard were actually an active protagonist instead of being told to do things.

- Justify Cerberus railroading/If you have tears, prepare to shed them now: I think most of us can agree the way Shepard was "humanised" in ME3 was simply wack as hell. In ME2, Shepard just came back FROM THE DEAD as a PIRATE ROBOT ZOMBIE. Half her crew members were killed, the Alliance and Council are stonewalling her, as are her former mentor and squad members. For some reason, Shepard doesn't seem to give even a partial f*ck about any of this. Don't wrest away player control, but propose the early levels are something like:

- Mostly healthy, Shepard fights her way out of the Cerberus facility
- When meeting the Illusive Man, Shepard can give him a tongue lashing for his ME1 chicanery and Akuze (especially if Shep is an SS), to which he will point out that Shepard is alive because of that research (actually making them successful for once would make them more shades of grey and less shades of stupid)--the first of many ideological conversations (agree with TIM or no) that lead to the CB decision
- Shepard can tell TIM to bugger off; if she does, TIM will claim he supports getting Council/Alliance help if possible, and allow her to leave
- Shepard smuggles herself onto the Citadel, being careful not to be identified; accessing a public terminal, player can choose to send messages to parent, former crew, et al (these will later prove to have been blocked by Cerberus). Regardless, Shepard finds she, being MIA assumed KIA, is locked out of the Alliance database and cannot contact them through secure channels. She requests an audience from the Council, but this would take a while to process
- At this point, hell, I don't know. A cutscene showing Shepard's vision swimming, and or the onset of excruciating pain--whatever drugs injected during PJ are wearing off. Her face begins to itch, and she stumbles into a wash room where she looks into a mirror to see OH WHAT THE HELL HOMIE, MY EYES IS LIKE THE TERMINATOR. WHEN SHE SCRATCHES HER FACE AGAIN, OH SH*T, DOGG, HER SKIN BEGINS TO BLEED AND FALL OFF, REVEALING HORRIBLE RENEGADE SCARRING BENEATH AH LAWD. SHEPARD THROWS UP BECAUSE THAT SH*T IS CRAY, AND STUMBLES OUT WHERE SHE COLLAPSES IN EXTREME PAIN ON THE GROUND, BLACKING OU
- CUE FIRST SCARY-AS-HELL NIGHTMARE
- SHEPARD WAKES UP ON A COUCH STILL NAUSEATED, NEARLY BLIND, AND IN EXTREME PAIN, ONLY TO SEE EMILY WONG!!!! OH DIP! WHO FILLS HER IN ON GALACTIC NEWS OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, AND (IF SHEP HELPED HER IN ME1) WHO HAS TAKEN SHEP IN OUT OF THE KINDNESS OF HER HEART, DESPITE SHEPARD BEING UGLY (AND SCARRED) AS F*CK AT THE MOMENT. HOW EMOTIONAL. EMILY TELLS SHEP THAT THERE IS A RUMOUR THAT SHE WAS WORKING FOR A TERRORIST ORGANISATION, REVEALING THE ILLUSIVE MAN HAS BEEN POISONING THE WELL SINCE IT BECAME APPARENT THAT SHEP WOULD MAKE IT BACK FROM THE GRAVE. THIS EXPLAINS WHY THE COUNCIL DENIES SHEPARD'S BEING ALIVE AND HER REQUESTS FOR AUDIENCE UNTIL A FEW LEVELS LATER WHEN ANDERSON CONTACTS YOU, WHICH IS ONLY POSSIBLE USING A GOOD/BAD PR SYSTEM WITH WONG AND AL-JILANI. SHEPARD CAN PRESSURE THE COUNCIL BY THREATENING GIVING STATEMENTS
- BECAUSE SHEPARD IS SEVERELY INCAPACITATED, SHE IS FORCED TO TAKE HER HALF-BLIND WRITHING IN PAIN ARSE BACK TO CERBERUS, WHERE HER EYE CYBERNETICS ARE RECALIBRATED, AND SHE IS GIVEN MEDICATION FOR THE INTERNAL INFLAMMATION AND CYBERNETIC REJECTION--AND CERBERUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET SUCH MEDICINE OH DIP, CONTROLLING SHEPARD WITH DRUGS AND A BAD NAME WAS CERBERUS' PLAN ALL ALONG!!!!! (CHAKWAS IS INTRODUCED HERE BY THE WAY, AND AFTERWARD THE ORMANDY SCENE WITH JOKER, AND FINALLY FREEDOM'S PROGRESS)

That was mostly joking, but you get the point. Having Shepard having at least a mild WTF at "you were dead" is more than appropriate.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 04 juillet 2012 - 12:11 .