426 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexPorto111]

ME3 managed to get the best of both worlds:the story of ME1,and the characters and better gameplay of ME2.ME3 has a great story(yeah,i just said that) and amazing characters.The conversations on the Normandy and Citadel were all great,fun and emotional,and in terms of story,Tuchanka and Rannoch are easily the bests plots of the trilogy.IMO,ME3 is the best game of the trilogy becuase of all this.

[Evo_9]

Its like theres a bunch of "comic book guys" on this thread.

So we have gone from ME1 is an awesome game to its a piece of ****

lol

Cant wait for you guys to start up a development company, im sure you will release the most awrsomeness game there is!

whats holding you guys back, youre all experts! 

Modifié par Evo_9, 03 juillet 2012 - 04:01 .

[mauro2222]

txgoldrush wrote...

How is Ashley sexualized? Wow...she changed her look, she must be sexualized.

This is proof you didn't pay attention to anything... in fact all your hate to ME1 characters comes from Tali liking to talk about her people.

txgoldrush wrote...
How is Wrex turned into an imperialist brute moron raving about th egenophage? Oh wait, last time I checked, he wasn't imperialist and respected the other races even giving Mordin credit to where its due, its pretty smart, and evidently puts the Krogan on the path of peace...unlike his brother Wreav.

If Eve is not there, Wrex plans on doing the same as Wreav. Where are you when the characters talk?

txgoldrush wrote...

TIM does this so you know, he can control the Reapers BASED on his findings at Sanctuary. 

Read the novel. Cerberus is by far the worst retconn, almost as bad as the Reapers one.

txgoldrush wrote...

Gerrel was gun ho in ME2...please, he is the same character.

He hates the geth, but how he acts in ME3, he's a child who acts bad because he wants to look bad.

txgoldrush wrote...

Its not like Udina wasn't desperate before....

Udina loves power, but he's no stupid... wait well in ME3 he is.

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it, they are pretty consistant.

Face it, you don't pay attention.

Modifié par mauro2222, 03 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .

[txgoldrush]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Is this what people are doing now?
Actively attacking ME1 to try and make ME3 look not as bad?

Good grief.

Exactly. This thread needs to be smacked. Nobody is ever gonna tell me with a straight face that Mass Effect 1 had crummy storytelling and not except an earful from me.

ME1 is FAR from crappy, and for 2007 it was great.....

But it is HIGHLY flawed, especially when it comes to characterization.

Flawed? Sure every game has it's flawss. But HIGHLY flawed? You can't just call it great and then call it HIGHLY flawed, that's a contradiction.

No, it was great FOR ITS TIME....

Like Goldeneye for N64 was great for its time...boy does it suck now.

See I don't think like that. I'm not gonna look at something that was great when it came out and say "Pff...you're old news, nobody likes you anymore."

No, i'm gonna give it the respect it deserves. It's a great game, and still is. It might not be as fun to play these days as it was back then, but i'm not gonna knock off points from the game because of that.

However, you have to understand the flaws of the game so you do not repeat them. Bioware has improve dtheir charcter writing since then.

Ultima VII is a classic, but if a game designer repeats its flaws, such as its inventory, they need to be tarred and feathered.

[The Heretic of Time]

Zero132132 wrote...

Anyone else reading this and getting a bizarre desire to replay ME1? So far, I've done femshep and renagon, but I want to do a full paragon runthrough, since femshep VA seems to do better on paragon lines.

Seriously, I know the discussion is about its flaws, but is anyone else getting nostalgic?

I restarted ME1 a couple of days ago. Just got turned into a Spectre. Now on my way to save Liara, but my desire to play ME1 is already gone. The gameplay is just too bland and outdated. I don't enjoy playing ME1 anymore.

[LinksOcarina]

Evo_9 wrote...

Its like theres a bunch of "comic book guys" on this thread.

So we have gone from ME1 is an awesome game to its a piece of ****

lol

Cant wait for you guys to start up a development company, im sure you will release the most awrsomeness game there is!

whats holding you guys back, youre all experts! 

I write for a game website already, i'm good.

Plus I have always said Mass Effect 1 was a flawed game, so at least i'm consistant enough to stick by my opinions. 

[The Heretic of Time]

Evo_9 wrote...

Cant wait for you guys to start up a development company, im sure you will release the most awrsomeness game there is!

whats holding you guys back, youre all experts! 

Way ahead of you bro. I'm already doing exactly that as we speak.

[Zero132132]

Evo_9 wrote...

Its like theres a bunch of "comic book guys" on this thread.

So we have gone from ME1 is an awesome game to its a piece of ****

lol

Cant wait for you guys to start up a development company, im sure you will release the most awrsomeness game there is!

whats holding you guys back, youre all experts! 

I resent this comparison! If anything, I'm like red shirt guy.

Saying something is flawed isn't the same as saying it's a piece of ****, by the way.

[Seboist]

One thing I "like" about ME and it's "depth" is how the Batarians are the big whipping boy for whenever someone or a weapon need a back story to sound badass. I honestly lost count of how many people have a story with them pwning Batarians in the past.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Zero132132 wrote...

Anyone else reading this and getting a bizarre desire to replay ME1? So far, I've done femshep and renagon, but I want to do a full paragon runthrough, since femshep VA seems to do better on paragon lines.

Seriously, I know the discussion is about its flaws, but is anyone else getting nostalgic?

I'm gonna replay the trilogy back to back soon. I might even start tonight.

[tobin1455]

Zero132132 wrote...

Anyone else reading this and getting a bizarre desire to replay ME1? So far, I've done femshep and renagon, but I want to do a full paragon runthrough, since femshep VA seems to do better on paragon lines.

Seriously, I know the discussion is about its flaws, but is anyone else getting nostalgic?

Now that you mention it     YES:happy:

[SuperVulcan]

Zero132132 wrote...

You're wrong. Give ONE good story arc in ME1.

The characters all lacked characterization. Every mission felt sort of pointless, and you only got marginally closer to the main objective. Almost all of ME1 was exposition; characters were treated as sources of information, which is why nobody had a personality. Everyone except Saren (and maybe Joker) serves primarily as an expositional device. There are almost no moments that tug at your heartstrings, make you actually give a damn.

Mass Effect 1 wasn't centered around the charcters! What the first Mass Effect truly excelled at was making a wonderful galaxy. It was a galaxy you could explore. You could enforce the law as with diplomacy or with lethal force. It wasn't designed to to at your heartstrings, it was designed so you could be immersed in it! And don't forget Wrex he was the character with the most personality.

[wulf3n]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...
So we have gone from ME1 is an awesome game to its a piece of ****

You falsely assume that people cannot find flaws in something without thinking it is awful.

It's funny 'cos it goes both ways. A lot of people [not you] seem to think preferring ME1 over ME2 and/or ME3 means ME1 is infallible and perfect and above criticism.
 
I love forums 

[Peregrin25]

Blasphemy.

[Evo_9]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

Its like theres a bunch of "comic book guys" on this thread.

So we have gone from ME1 is an awesome game to its a piece of ****

lol

Cant wait for you guys to start up a development company, im sure you will release the most awrsomeness game there is!

whats holding you guys back, youre all experts! 

I write for a game website already, i'm good.

Plus I have always said Mass Effect 1 was a flawed game, so at least i'm consistant enough to stick by my opinions. 

Theres more money in software development, go for it! 

i have faith in you to create the best game in the world! 

[Dougy Fresh]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Dougy Fresh wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm sorry, i'm calling bull**** on this one. The space magic was strong in Mass Effect 1. REALLY strong if you add up all the clues and how the plot devices worked, from using beacons to leave visions on people, to having an Asari transfer a cipher from a PLANT MONSTER onto you through a mind meld, and so forth...

thats not space magic? 

ME is a sci-fi game not Rainbow Six.

Ocarina I'm calling bull**** on you.

1. The beacons were left by protheans. In ME3 Javik states that his people communicate and trade large amounts of information through sensory. So it only makes sense that they would leave a warning encrypted this way. Javik also says that it seems to him that communication was still primitve in this cycle.

2. The Cypher was not from the THORIAN (not plant monster, get your lore right) It was used to interpret prothean language so it was not just a confusing flash like what Shep first saw on eden prime. Plus it make most sense that an Asari was to give this to Shep. The Asari did have Prothean technology that they were not sharing with the rest of the Citadel races, which would explain why Asari are on top of the galaxy, their intelligence, longevity of life, and their ability to communicate information through linking minds. All of those qualities are very similar to Prothean. To top it all off Javik mentions that his people saw the potential in the Asari so they "guided" them when necessary.

Its not space magic.

Two things.

1. That is using knowledge found in game 3 in hindsight. Remember the characters have no idea how the beacons worked, and when given that information its still far-fetched because of point 2...

2. The fact that the use of a sort of 'psychic" feel to read and comprehend a language, or to find an item called the conduit (introduced towards the end of game 1, by the way) or to even receive this vision from the Protheans is a bit high fantasy. I mean come on, linking minds is not space magic? 

So in essence, the plot items in question are devices that are the same as the Catalyst in terms of their treatment and execution. Basically, If you call one space magic, you have to call the others the same, because they are treated as such in the narrative. 

And I know the Thorian is more than a plant monster  thats just some hyperbolic generalization because you knew what I was talking about. 

Yes I'm aware that at the time they didn't know how these prothean devices worked at first. But i still wouldn't call it space magic. Yes, It wasn't until ME3 until its clarified how all this is possible, but it doesnt change the fact that the protheans were a more advance civilization than our cycle. So it makes sense for them to have technology that they can't explain.

Take the Mass Relay's for example, or mass effecy fields. Does any one know how they work? No not us, not the protheans. The reapers created this technology, Its theirs they understand it. Same thing with prothean technology in our current cycle.

[Seifer006]

@ OP

ME1 was a new game... a whole new universe

5yrs later - ME3........which is better? You'd EXPECT ME3........but many disagree. ME1 was given the proper time to develop.
ME3........was not given the proper time to develop.

and that's why it SUCKS

Modifié par Seifer006, 03 juillet 2012 - 04:10 .

[Ryzaki]

ME1's writing may not have been perfect...but I found it far more bearable than ME3's.

[Zero132132]

SuperVulcan wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

You're wrong. Give ONE good story arc in ME1.

The characters all lacked characterization. Every mission felt sort of pointless, and you only got marginally closer to the main objective. Almost all of ME1 was exposition; characters were treated as sources of information, which is why nobody had a personality. Everyone except Saren (and maybe Joker) serves primarily as an expositional device. There are almost no moments that tug at your heartstrings, make you actually give a damn.

Mass Effect 1 wasn't centered around the charcters! What the first Mass Effect truly excelled at was making a wonderful galaxy. It was a galaxy you could explore. You could enforce the law as with diplomacy or with lethal force. It wasn't designed to to at your heartstrings, it was designed so you could be immersed in it! And don't forget Wrex he was the character with the most personality.

Yeah, that's been my take too. It actually makes the series 'work' if you think of it as one narrative. The first act sets up the setting. The second act focusses on character development. The third is the actualization of the main premise; that the Reapers are going to try to kill all of us.

Wrex was awesome, though. I think he was only written that way to give you an understanding of the genophage, and why it matters. Without Wrex, krogan would always be the mercs working for Saren, so the typical depiction of them as violent animals would seem far more apt. He was still an expositional device, and I almost think it was coincidental that you cared about him, just because his entire job was to make the Krogan seem a bit more... well, human.

Also...

"Shepard."
"Wrex."

[Mathias]

txgoldrush wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Is this what people are doing now?
Actively attacking ME1 to try and make ME3 look not as bad?

Good grief.

Exactly. This thread needs to be smacked. Nobody is ever gonna tell me with a straight face that Mass Effect 1 had crummy storytelling and not except an earful from me.

ME1 is FAR from crappy, and for 2007 it was great.....

But it is HIGHLY flawed, especially when it comes to characterization.

Flawed? Sure every game has it's flawss. But HIGHLY flawed? You can't just call it great and then call it HIGHLY flawed, that's a contradiction.

No, it was great FOR ITS TIME....

Like Goldeneye for N64 was great for its time...boy does it suck now.

See I don't think like that. I'm not gonna look at something that was great when it came out and say "Pff...you're old news, nobody likes you anymore."

No, i'm gonna give it the respect it deserves. It's a great game, and still is. It might not be as fun to play these days as it was back then, but i'm not gonna knock off points from the game because of that.

However, you have to understand the flaws of the game so you do not repeat them. Bioware has improve dtheir charcter writing since then.

There was nothing flawed about the characters in Mass Effect 1. If Mass Effect's universe had been well established before the game came out, they would've been able to emphasize the character's personality a lot more. But regardless I played through that game knowing full well what each character was like. Bioware accomplished fleshing out each characters personality well. Granted they did a better job at it in ME2.

Also I wouldn't go as far as saying Bioware has improved their character writing since Mass Effect 1. Dragon Age 2 is a good example of that.

[LinksOcarina]

mauro2222 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

How is Ashley sexualized? Wow...she changed her look, she must be sexualized.

This is proof you didn't pay attention to anything... in fact all your hate to ME1 characters comes from Tali liking to talk about her people.

txgoldrush wrote...
How is Wrex turned into an imperialist brute moron raving about th egenophage? Oh wait, last time I checked, he wasn't imperialist and respected the other races even giving Mordin credit to where its due, its pretty smart, and evidently puts the Krogan on the path of peace...unlike his brother Wreav.

If Eve is not there, Wrex plans on doing the same as Wreav. Where are you when the characters talk?

txgoldrush wrote...

TIM does this so you know, he can control the Reapers BASED on his findings at Sanctuary. 

Read the novel. Cerberus is by far the worst retconn, almost as bad as the Reapers one.

txgoldrush wrote...

Gerrel was gun ho in ME2...please, he is the same character.

He hates the geth, but how he acts in ME3, he's a child who acts bad because he wants to look bad.

txgoldrush wrote...

Its not like Udina wasn't desperate before....

Udina loves power, but he's no stupid... wait well in ME3 he is.

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it, they are pretty consistant.

Face it, you don't pay attention.

You said nothing on Ashley, so I have no idea what your talking about there.

Wrex plays a lot nicer than Wreav, and while the threat of imperialism is always there, with Wrex it feels more likely he won't step out of line if they play ball with him. Eve does give a good check if he does though. Wreav however acts a tool the entire time. That is undenyable.

And proof of that, listen to their speeches during London. 

The novels have little bearing on the game, save for characters involved. Suffice to say if there was a retcon involving Cerberus I don't know about it, so enlighten me please.

Gerrel does act the same in both games, hes too gun-ho in 3 I admit, but considering he is pretty much a military man who has been fighting for a long time, it still fits the character. He only looks bad because he made one bad decision. 

As for Udina...I get the feeling he staged the coup because he wanted Cerberus to do what he thought was more likely to happen, and that is controlling the reapers to remove them as a threat. You are right though he does kind of go overboard in game 3, so it is shakey to say if he was in or out of character here.

Overall though, the characters were consistant, and a lot of them had an arc and grew out of their characteristics, which did make them more natural in some ways. Some issues aside, espeically with Udina, I can deal with. But I do not agree that all of these characters you mentioned were acting out of character for plot convienence, only Udina I can see as that, unless if you care to elaborate on Ashley and the Illusive Man.

[Ryzaki]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
There was nothing flawed about the characters in Mass Effect 1. If Mass Effect's universe had been well established before the game came out, they would've been able to emphasize the character's personality a lot more. But regardless I played through that game knowing full well what each character was like. Bioware accomplished fleshing out each characters personality well. Granted they did a better job at it in ME2.

Also I wouldn't go as far as saying Bioware has improved their character writing since Mass Effect 1. Dragon Age 2 is a good example of that.

Really? I thought the DA2 characters were far stronger than ME1 characters. Far far stronger.