169 réponses à ce sujet

[cuzIMgood]

Lack of mobility kills them.

[Blind2Society]

Because they cannot roll, and there is no justification for that.

[DarkerCompanion]

soultaker65 wrote...

Soldier is great but Sentinel may be the most powerful character in the whole game.

A Sentinel with 6/6/6/5/3 with a SMG and AP ammo has almost no problem against any faction.

Why aren't they used more if I knew how good they were I would have used them so much earlier.

Soldier has some fans, but I would hardly describe it as great. Its definitely not in the top ten classes (out of 30). But Sentinel possibly being the most powerful character in the whole game? Not by a long shot. I can think of at least 5 characters that, without any argument, are easily superior to the Sentinel. And all of them can roll.

The reason is ultimately this; the Turian Soldier is an underpowered class with a niche following which regularly defends it. The Turian Sentinel is a solid, durable class with a decent power selection but poor power synergy (which is fine, he is the only real jack-of-all-trades in the game). This leads to him being versatile and useful, but not particularly powerful.

A lot of people are right; a HUGE loss for the Turian is the lack of rolling. They aren't durable enough to tank (well, the Turian Sentinel can, but so can the Human Sentinel), but the loss of rolling makes Geth Primes, Rocket Troopers, Atlases, Nemesis, Phantoms, Banshees, Brutes, Ravagers, and any Grenades SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous. For classes like the Soldier, they end up taking more damage from the lack of rolling than their extra shields affords for them.

Another thing is that you point out that a specially built Turian Sent is good against any faction. But there are other classes that are good against any faction, and they are BETTER against said factions. And thus lies the difference.

[Siansonea]

I don't play any race that can't jump away when they're getting shot at by Rocket Troopers.

[soultaker65]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

Soldier has some fans, but I would hardly describe it as great. Its definitely not in the top ten classes (out of 30). But Sentinel possibly being the most powerful character in the whole game? Not by a long shot. I can think of at least 5 characters that, without any argument, are easily superior to the Sentinel. And all of them can roll.

The reason is ultimately this; the Turian Soldier is an underpowered class with a niche following which regularly defends it. The Turian Sentinel is a solid, durable class with a decent power selection but poor power synergy (which is fine, he is the only real jack-of-all-trades in the game). This leads to him being versatile and useful, but not particularly powerful.

A lot of people are right; a HUGE loss for the Turian is the lack of rolling. They aren't durable enough to tank (well, the Turian Sentinel can, but so can the Human Sentinel), but the loss of rolling makes Geth Primes, Rocket Troopers, Atlases, Nemesis, Phantoms, Banshees, Brutes, Ravagers, and any Grenades SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous. For classes like the Soldier, they end up taking more damage from the lack of rolling than their extra shields affords for them.

Another thing is that you point out that a specially built Turian Sent is good against any faction. But there are other classes that are good against any faction, and they are BETTER against said factions. And thus lies the difference.

Had you said that last week I would have agreed with but now that I've used both alot over the weekend I have to disagree.

The Turian Soldier is a great class he's like a more survivable version of the GI sure hes not in the top ten but he still great.

The Turian Sentinel may be the top character in the game because no matter what team you have he can set off combos, plus his survivable is on par with the KV, he still get a Stability Bonus so he can use guns like the Revenant and Hurricane much better then most classes in the game put so AP ammo on him and he can kill every boss in the game with the greatest of ease.

Just because he can't solo gold doesn't mean hes not the most powerful class in the game.

Also: What are those 5 characters if more then 2 of them are Infiltrators or both of the Geth or Quarian males your really not making a good point as to why the Turian Sentinel is not at least in the top five.

Modifié par soultaker65, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:14 .

[DarkerCompanion]

soultaker65 wrote...

Had you said that last week I would have agreed with but now that I've used both alot over the weekend I have to disagree.

The Turian Soldier is a great class he's like a more survivable version of the GI sure hes not in the top ten but he still great.

The Turian Sentinel may be the top character in the game because no matter what team you have he can set off combos, plus his survivable is on par with the KV, he still get a Stability Bonus so he can use guns like the Revenant and Hurricane much better then most classes in the game put so AP ammo on him and he can kill every boss in the game with the greatest of ease.

Just because he can't solo gold doesn't mean hes not the most powerful class in the game.

Also: What are those 5 characters if more then 2 of them are Infiltrators or both of the Geth or Quarian males your really not making a good point as to why the Turian Sentinel is not at least in the top five.

I don't think the Turian Soldier is anything like the GI. In fact, I would say he is a LESS survivable, less functional version of the GI. He recieves no special weapon damage bonus except a headshot boost during Marksman, which only effects non-bosses. His RoF is an effective DPS boost, but performs poorly on a ton of weapons. Markman has terrible synergy with his other powers, and locks him into it, meaning he is screwed in a pinch. He can't roll, and his bonus shields are trivial.

I'm not convinced about the Turian Sentinel; Warp is pretty weak on its own, and working combos like that requires synergy with both teammate classes and teammate tactics. Maybe you could Warp targets and hope a smart teammate will target them, but thats unlikely. In the meantime, Warp only detonates a few Biotic powers (Reave, Smash, Lash if you are lucky, Singularity if it ever works, Pull . . . yeah right). Tech Burst duration is so short that deliberately stopping what you are doing to target a Shield Drained target is pretty unlikely to work. Not ot mention, those points have to come out of somewhere; you can't have high tier tech armor, AND fitness, AND Overload and Warp, unless you utterly tank Turian training.

Also, in my experience, even when accurate, the Hurricane and Revenent with AP ammo don't quite kill bosses with anything approaching the greatest of ease.

On the topic of not even close to the top . . .

Yes, 3 of the ones I listed were Infiltrators. I almost listed ALL of the Infiltrators, but I figured the recent nerf hurt the fQuarian and Human enough to make that debatable. Male Quarian, Salarian, and Geth Infiltrators easily outstrip the Turian Sentinel, and yes, that makes him not one of the best characters in the game. I'm not sure how "more than one being Infiltrators" makes him any better of a character. On top of that, the Human Sentinel and Asari Adept are both very good classes against all factions. I wouldn't have listed them, but since you are counting the Turian Sentinels group synergy for him, then I would say the Drell Adept and Asari Justicar are superior for BE spam with squadmates. Drell Adept gets massive solo damage with Clusters, and the AJ gets self detonating bubble and durability/team durability from bubble defense. Additionally, male Quarian Engineers are very powerful, and Geth Engineers can out-overload a Turian, but have healing potential, flamethrower distraction, and great utility, plus Hunter mode is like a permanent, weaker Marksman.

Modifié par DarkerCompanion, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:23 .

[Apl_Juice]

Personally, I find Turians in MP to be boring.

The Soldier is little more than a turret. Sit on cover then Marksmen everything.

The Sentinel CAN be fun if there's cooperative players on your team, but usually it just feels like a less mobile Human Engineer that gets stunlocked.

[soultaker65]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

I don't think the Turian Soldier is anything like the GI. In fact, I would say he is a LESS survivable, less functional version of the GI. He recieves no special weapon damage bonus except a headshot boost during Marksman, which only effects non-bosses. His RoF is an effective DPS boost, but performs poorly on a ton of weapons. Markman has terrible synergy with his other powers, and locks him into it, meaning he is screwed in a pinch. He can't roll, and his bonus shields are trivial.

I'm not convinced about the Turian Sentinel; Warp is pretty weak on its own, and working combos like that requires synergy with both teammate classes and teammate tactics. Maybe you could Warp targets and hope a smart teammate will target them, but thats unlikely. In the meantime, Warp only detonates a few Biotic powers (Reave, Smash, Lash if you are lucky, Singularity if it ever works, Pull . . . yeah right). Tech Burst duration is so short that deliberately stopping what you are doing to target a Shield Drained target is pretty unlikely to work. Not ot mention, those points have to come out of somewhere; you can't have high tier tech armor, AND fitness, AND Overload and Warp, unless you utterly tank Turian training.

Also, in my experience, even when accurate, the Hurricane and Revenent with AP ammo don't quite kill bosses with anything approaching the greatest of ease.

After a debuffing warp a Hurricane with AP ammo kills bosses in one clip. also we have gear the boosts shields 

What are those 5 characters if more then 2 of them are Infiltrators or both of the Geth or Quarian males your really not making a good point as to why the Turian Sentinel is not at least in the top five

Modifié par soultaker65, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:23 .

[DarkerCompanion]

soultaker65 wrote...

After a debuffing warp a Hurricane with AP ammo kills bosses in one clip. also we have gear the boosts shields 

Anybody can wear shield boosting gear, so thats a moot point.

Also, I previously edited in the answer about which classes were better in my previous post.

Modifié par DarkerCompanion, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:30 .

[KrazyMF]

Because they are pretty bad.

1) They have a lack of mobility, they are slow.
2) They have no roll or dodge.
3) They get stunlocked like Krogans and Batarians, but have no redeeming melee skills or any skill really.

Just my opinion but when BioWare implemented the Turians they did a **** job. Because out of all the characters the Turians aren't just the worst, but they are so far from how the lore depicts them and how Garrus and the Marauders act and play. (Obviously can't play Marauders but Garrus in SP rolls and is a badass that never gets stunned)

[soultaker65]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

On the topic of not even close to the top . . .

Yes, 3 of the ones I listed were Infiltrators. I almost listed ALL of the Infiltrators, but I figured the recent nerf hurt the fQuarian and Human enough to make that debatable. Male Quarian, Salarian, and Geth Infiltrators easily outstrip the Turian Sentinel, and yes, that makes him not one of the best characters in the game. I'm not sure how "more than one being Infiltrators" makes him any better of a character. On top of that, the Human Sentinel and Asari Adept are both very good classes against all factions. I wouldn't have listed them, but since you are counting the Turian Sentinels group synergy for him, then I would say the Drell Adept and Asari Justicar are superior for BE spam with squadmates. Drell Adept gets massive solo damage with Clusters, and the AJ gets self detonating bubble and durability/team durability from bubble defense. Additionally, male Quarian Engineers are very powerful, and Geth Engineers can out-overload a Turian, but have healing potential, flamethrower distraction, and great utility, plus Hunter mode is like a permanent, weaker Marksman.

In that list all you really said was that Infiltrators, geth and quarian male are OP. Just because their OP does not mean their in the top five.

As for the Adepts if you can't set off BEs then they are not that powerful even the Human Sentinel needs BEs to be good. The only Adept that is a all aronud great character is the AJ the Is also in my top five.
The only reason the CA is that good is because of the CV is so much better then the CA,  the CV is also in my top five

The Turian Sentinel doesn't need BEs or TBs to be good on Gold, no matter what team he on or what boss he fights the Turian Sentinel can get the job done.

Modifié par soultaker65, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:52 .

[GHOST OF FRUITY]

I use Turian Sentinel alot (he and Quarian female Infiltrator are my mains) - Lack of rolling and poor mobility is a problem, but he has good shields and health, great weapon stability. I know what you mean though OP, I don't see many Turians either these days. Still hoping to find an all Turian team one day!

[DarkerCompanion]

soultaker65 wrote...

In that list all  you really said was that Infiltrators, geth and quarian male are OP. Just because their OP does not mean their in the top five.

As for the Adepts if you can't set off BEs then they are not that powerful even the Human Sentinel needs BEs to be good.

The Turian Sentinel doesn't need BEs or TBs to be good on Gold, no matter what team or boss the Turian Sentinel can get the job done.

. . . are you serious?

So the most overpowered classes in the game don't count because they are overpowered? Doesn't that by definition MAKE them in the top classes?

Adepts don't count because if you take away their BEs, they aren't good? What is that logic? Thats what makes them GOOD. If you take away the strength of a class, of COURSE they stop being good. Why is it that every class I list somehow doesn't count to you? I listed at least 9 classes that were perfectly viable, and you have dismissed them all on some vague premise. Thats nearly one THIRD of the classes in the game being superior. I didn't even get into some of the others, who I think are more "on par" with the Turian Sentinel.

Also, by the way, the proof is in the pudding. You ask why people don't play Turians more. They don't play them because they just aren't that good. You can logic it out on paper in a forum all you want, but in game, it just doesn't work out that way. This game has had 4 whole months to sink in; if there was some secretly good class, people would have found it already. In fact, it has already happened many times, with people finding the hidden usefulness of Drell Adepts (very early on) and fQuarian Backfire Sabotage (a little later on). If Turians were so phenomenal, it would have been discovered, used and abused long ago. But they aren't.

Finally, its worth pointing out that your premise of power was dependent upon using guns which require an ammo power. Any class can use an ammo power, so that doesn't really factor into it. Furthermore, you cannot have an indefinite supply of an ammo power, so a class cannot be judged under the pretense of always having that power on. You also cited the Hurricane, a promotional item that many people do not have, or if they do, at low levels.

GHOST OF FRUITY wrote...

I use Turian Sentinel alot (he and Quarian female Infiltrator are my mains) - Lack of rolling and poor mobility is a problem, but he has good shields and health, great weapon stability. I know what you mean though OP, I don't see many Turians either these days. Still hoping to find an all Turian team one day!

Recurring myth detected; Turians have standard health.

Modifié par DarkerCompanion, 03 juillet 2012 - 06:55 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

AeonFrog wrote...

The Turians are probably the characters that I use the most.

Me too. They do take getting used to however.

[Leonia]

We have reach but no flexibility

[SkreeMalicious]

no roll or dodge. the combat roll is a step up from ME2, and these guys are still stuck in that game apparently.

Modifié par SkreeMalicious, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:12 .

[soultaker65]

@ DarkerCompanion

Whoa no need to get so mad, I'm not saying that Infiltrators, geth, quarian male, and Adepts aren't good classes they are all very good some are great, but just because the Turian Sentinel isn't OP doesn't mean he not good.

Everyone know Infiltrators, geth and quarian male are OP because they are very easy to use, that not a bad thing, but to say that the Turian Sentinel can't match up to them is wrong.

The Turian Sentinel has more health and shields then all the classes you listed.

Does rolling really save you that much on gold if your going to die rolling won't help.

He to slow? Use an Adrenaline Module III you have 55 of them what are you saving them for.

If you don't have a Hurricane ( your is level 4 two levels higher then mine) use a Tempest or Locust or geth SMG they work just a good as the Hurricane.

And finally have you used him lately if you haven't give him a try you have all of the guns hes good with. 

Modifié par soultaker65, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:17 .

[Qror_pl]

Once for fun I treid Turian Soldier with marksman set for the rate of fire. Took Harrier with extended clip and piercing mode, and Geth Plasma SMG with every addon set on size of clip. God, the enemy never knew what hit him.

[Baerdface]

Always play a turian. Soldier and Sentinel are amazing. Lack of roll is not a problem.

[DarkerCompanion]

soultaker65 wrote...

Whoa no need to get so mad, I'm not saying that Infiltrators, geth, quarian male, and Adepts aren't good classes they are all very good some are great, but just because the Turian Sentinel isn't OP doesn't mean he not good.

Everyone know Infiltrators, geth and quarian male are OP because they are very easy to use, that not a bad thing, but to say that the Turian Sentinel can't match up to them is wrong.

The Turian Sentinel has more health and shields then all the classes you listed.

Does rolling really save you that much on gold if your going to die rolling won't help.
He to slow? Use an Adrenaline Module III you have 55 of them what are you saving them for.
If you don't have a Hurricane ( your is level 4 two levels higher then mine) use a Tempest or Locust or geth SMG they work just a good as the Hurricane.

And finally have you used him lately if you haven't give him a try you have all of the guns hes good with. 

I never said the TS is not good. I DO think he is good. But I don't think he can even be counted amongst the top quarter of the game's classes. Good, but not best. And thats what you claimed at the start of this topic. The "OP" classes have a higher upper level of power than the Turian Sentinel. They are both easier to use in unskilled hands, and in skilled hands, they are more powerful.

The Turian Sentinel has more shields than all the classes I listed. He does not have more health, except for the Geth. He is a durable class, but that doesn't count for a lot. If that were so, then the Krogan Sentinel would be one of the best classes in the game.

Yes, rolling saves you a lot on gold. Rolling helps a TON from dying. I never said he was slow; he runs just fine, its his lack of rolling that hurts him. There are a ton of enemies, which I listed earlier, which rolling can save you from quickly and easily, but shields will only slow the inevitable. Anything with insta-kills is an immediate example, but the heavy burst fire enemies (Ravager, Primes, Atlases) make a big difference. Oh, accidentally walked out into a Turrets range? You could roll back with anyone else, but the Turian has to turn around and go back.

Yes, I have used him. He is a solid class, and neither I nor any person I have ever played with has taken a Turian Sentinel and made him perform as someone in the running for best class in the game. I've tried him with the Hurricane, Revenant, Harrier, Saber, and a host of other weapons, and while they all work nicely, they never outperform my ability to use the other classes I listed. I PERSONALLY wouldn't even normally cite DA and AJ as good classes, because I don't like them, but popular opinion, from other people who are good at the game, indicate otherwise. I HAVE seen them shine. I have never once seen a Turian Sentinel perform better than "decent".

Modifié par DarkerCompanion, 03 juillet 2012 - 07:29 .

[coldlogic82]

Everyone *likes* Turians. What everyone doesn't like is being instantly killed in every round with a banshee because they have no way to get away from unexpected Banshee jumps (especially through walls). It's pretty much the only thing that makes me seethe rage. If not for that, Turian Sentinels are epic powerhouses.

[CoddyXD]

I live the TS but he isnt the be all and end all.

Firstly the Human Sentinal does the BE help out better and gets the 20% any wep weight reduc of thats what you are after. If its a adapt group he is the one to use.

TS is only my char of choice if theres a low weighted SE or SI in group as they make a sweet combo team.

In a mixed powers team the AJ is queen. Warp spec bubble and a harrier or saber and your golden.

[Wolfsbladex]

Because they aren't infiltrators.

[coldlogic82]

Also, I guess when you're saying you don't see many, you're automatically implying that you mostly pug your matches, which is fine, and everyone else is following on that assumption, which is fine, but remember there are people who don't pug every match, and so the diversity of the turian sentinel is much much much more significant. With the people I regularly play with, there are times where do take the Turian sentinel because it compliments the group very well.

Don't just toss teamwork out the equation. It makes me sad.

[IceTrey1987]

Lack of mobility and they don't have the resilience of the Krogan to make up for it. Plus people don't know how to play the classes. Turian soldier requires having certain weapons to be effective, like the revenant, indra, or SMGs, and requires you to use proximity mines and marksman very tactically. I really like my Turian soldier and he's very helpful to a team, as well as able to clutch a round by himself if necessary, but he's just not really as fun as other classes. He's well balanced, but doesn't really blow other classes away in any one area. As far as sentinels go, the fact that they're biotic characters who use armor powers which slow down their biotics makes them seem underwhelming and confusing. People are very divisive on how to spec them. If there was a Turian Infiltrator, I bet people would use him like crazy, since the mobility wouldn't be a big deal at all. Maybe give him cloak, proximity mine, and something else to differentiate him from the salarian infiltrator. Maybe a crazy visor mode with targeting and a damage boost based on Garrus' eyepiece or something. Problem is, then he'd basically be the geth infiltrator. Who knows.....