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[Aylyese]

IscrewTali wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

If you check the polls, the Majority use destroy. Synthesis is the minorty choice. 

Does not change my statement. I categorized the 3 options as "using the Crucible" vs refuse. It is a fair assesment.

This is a Synthesis thread. Synthesis is the minority choice.

/Thread.

[The Angry One]

IscrewTali wrote...

Synthesis is an option, thus not forcing it upon you.

If Shepard takes the option (which the Bratalyst really, really, reeeeaally wants you to take) it's forcing it on everyone.

[Baronesa]

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

[Krunjar]

The Angry One wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

The reapers are changed because ALL life is changed they are no
exception. Deny it if you will but I think that the "Husk wakes up"
scene blatently disproves what you assert even if it made any sense
other than to justify youre own preferences.

Because it connects Husks to their new "consensus" or whatever you want to call it.
So what? How does this change REAPERS? It doesn't. It simply makes everything else like them.

Nope dousn't do that watch the control ending. THAT makes the husk back off but still act like a husk. The way the husk moves in synthesis is so much more human. Synthesis dous not change minds it changes perspective. Which naturally changes minds over time. You know ... like growing up. Guess puberty is brainwashing too rite? I  mean you could argue that it is but everyone would laugh at you. Same goes for synthesis or it should. Anti synthesists do kinda remind me of pre pubescants though. Terrified of something changing them. I could understand not picking it but finding it revolting just seems immature and smecks of personal issues.

[KingZayd]

Refuse is actually a win/win.

If the Starchild is telling the truth, you ascend.
If the Starchild is lying, then clearly it has some other reason it wants you to use the crucible, suggesting the Crucible itself is a trap.

[Jackums]

The Angry One wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Synthesis is an option, thus not forcing it upon you.

If Shepard takes the option (which the Bratalyst really, really, reeeeaally wants you to take) it's forcing it on everyone.

Quite similarly to Reject.

[Gorkan86]

The Angry One wrote...
So let's trust the future to the manipulative genocidal maniac. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.

Not long ago, Shepard has worked with a maniac. And what happened?

[The Angry One]

Krunjar wrote...

Nope dousn't do that watch the control ending. THAT makes the husk back off but still act like a husk. The way the husk moves in synthesis is so much more human. Synthesis dous not change minds it changes perspective. Which naturally changes minds over time. You know ... like growing up. Guess puberty is brainwashing too rite? I  mean you could argue that it is but everyone would laugh at you. Same goes for synthesis or it should. Anti synthesists do kinda remind me of pre pubescants though. Terrified of something changing them. I could understand not picking it but finding it revolting just seems immature and smecks of personal issues.

Yes. Because it connects husks to everyone else.
By doing so, it gives them conciousness. This does not however change the REAPERS.

As an aside, do you realise how horrific this will be? Mutilated husks gaining conciousness? Realising what they've become? Cannibals? Banshees? Brutes? How about Praetorians. Yeah that'll be fun.

[FFmasterIsmael]

*moved

Modifié par FFmasterIsmael, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .

[The Angry One]

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So let's trust the future to the manipulative genocidal maniac. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.

Not long ago, Shepard has worked with a maniac. And what happened?

TIM? He wasn't a maniac then. Only ME3 decided to downgrade him from ultra renegade to bat**** crazy chaotic evil.

[Forbry]

FFmasterIsmael wrote...

It's like the people against synthesis are forgetting that the Catalyst and the reapers where created by organics. The catalyst only goal was to bring balance between organics and synthetics. The Reapers don't have a master plan they were willingly created to keep the peace. Which I think is bull****. Because assuming that any synthetics created by new civilisations will always rebel and kill all organics, as in completely wipe them out, nothings left not even bugs or microscopic organisms. That's seems like overkill. We proved with the Geth that peace is possible. That's why in my opinion a true ending would be just turning the reapers off. No explosions just going, your plan doesn't work so let us do it our way, peace with the Geth is proof if that. But as it stands that option doesn't exist.

So I think out of the choices we get synthesis is the best for the future of the galaxy not just, us in the now but the far future. Because everyone is talking about forcing things on people. But that's how progress happens. just listen to the illusive man about the mass effect relays, if we listened to the nay sayers then we would still be stuck in our own system. It's not the same decision I know, different consequences and all that. The synthesis ending is just this: we get synthetics advancements and they get our emotions and understanding. They stop feeling better than us. They stop feeling that we are obsolete. And we don't join with the reapers, the reapers join us. The catalyst even says this: "When fire burns, is it at war? Is in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do. We harvest your body's, your knowledge, your creations we preserve it. To be reborn in the form of a new reaper. Like a cleansing fire we restore balance. New life both organic and synthetic can once again flourish." That is all they think, the only reason they do what they do, Why would synthesis be what the reapers truly want if in some peoples opinions they are willingly evil and want us all dead. That doesn't make any sense. Synthesis is the option you can make if you did your best. And if you agree with the future that comes from that decision you make it. And I do. And there are always gonna be people who are not happy with that decision but that doesn't make it the wrong one. Just because it doesn't sit well with some of the masses doesn't make it wrong or bull****. What if we lived in a warped world where most people agree cold blooded murder is okay, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it accepted. Same for synthesis just because a part of the masses won't be happy with it, doesn't make it wrong. And everyone still keeps there individual personality just with a more educated look upon life and what life is. That's why with that ending EDI and all other synthetics are truly alive.

And another well put post. Man, they just keep coming

[IscrewTali]

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Add the 3 options together, and Refuse is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesnt want you to refuse the use of the Crucible, who are you to deny them.

[nos_astra]

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So let's trust the future to the manipulative genocidal maniac. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.

Not long ago, Shepard has worked with a maniac. And what happened?

For the most part a waste of time and much sidetracking?

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
"There will be no more compromise with the Old Machines."

That's short-sigthed and narrow minded.

Seriously though. This is not a compromise. This is us giving them everything they want and becoming like them.
What do we get? Benefits we could one day achieve on our own terms. Instead it's forced on everyone and everything at once because the Reapers say so. No thanks.

Benefits that can be achieved sooner with the Reapers helping us and upgrades that will leave no one behind.

And would be without it. This way though, they are hybrids, their old selves gone forever, replaced with the Reaper vision for the future.

Their minds and memories were untouched so they are the same people.

AND YET THE CRUCIBLE FORCES IT.

It gives people upgrades, that is all. The peace is not forced and that is what important.

It is forced, whether you approve of it or not. The Catalyst thinks synthesis guarantees peace.
Why? Organics are by nature chaotic, according to it. Why would synthesis change that... unless it compels them to?

Would you stop ignoring everything the game tells you because it does not suit your vision of what you want Synthesis to be?
The Catalyst never guarantees peaces. If asked directly, it will avoid the question. EDI says time and again how people are free to do what they wish to do, how we have been given a chance. No one has been forced into anything with the exception of having some upgrades. What they do with the new information and upgrades is completely up to them.

It's original goal was diplomacy and peace. Not preservation. It changed those directives.

The goal was always the survival of organics and synthetics. It never specified it was restricted to peaceful methods.

So let's trust the future to the manipulative genocidal maniac. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.

Shepard can be a manipulative genocidal.
Regardless, we're not. We build the Crucible, we activate it. It's our choice and our future.

Modifié par MisterJB, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:54 .

[The Angry One]

IscrewTali wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Add the 3 options together, and Refuse is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesnt want you to refuse the use of the Crucible, who are you to deny them.

Because gamer polls with full meta-game knowledge of the endings = in-universe galactic opinion.

Why do pro-synthesis threads always end up like this?

[Heimdall]

M25105 wrote...

Folks, please think about it. What difference is there in taking a normal person in dipping him in radioactive goo against his will? And changing some ones entire DNA against their consent in Synthesis? It's the same deal. It's disgusting, horrible and atrocious.

Hardly.  Dipping someone in radioactive goo could kill them. Giving one the ability to directly interface with machines while maintaining their individuality completely has virtually no downside.

What you have to understand is that nothing is being stripped away here.  A Krogan is still a Krogan, an Asari is still an Asari.  They just are now able to interface with machines directly.  The Geth are the same, they simply now possess the ability to properly understand organics.  It's an addition not a replacement, something to bridge the gap between man and machine.

Besides, those that picked Destroy don't seem to take to much issue with violating the Geth's right to exist, not to mention the ultimate ego trip that is Control.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:54 .

[Krunjar]

With the technology available i am sure husks etc could be helped into better bodies. Ones that actually allow them to enjoy life. If the brain is alive and independent that can be transferred into a cybernetic body. If they exist as data they can be transferred into a synthetic or cloned body a la EDI.

Modifié par Krunjar, 03 juillet 2012 - 11:54 .

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
As an aside, do you realise how horrific this will be? Mutilated husks gaining conciousness? Realising what they've become? Cannibals? Banshees? Brutes? How about Praetorians. Yeah that'll be fun.

A new age always brings both wonders and horrors. That doesn't mean we should remain stuck in the past.

[Shadowvalker]

Hey I got a great idea!

Why don't we do something really fun. Let's make a galactic sex change! And don't worry - you are still you - in a way.. No harme done! Relax. We know what is best for you..

[Gorkan86]

The Angry One wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So let's trust the future to the manipulative genocidal maniac. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.

Not long ago, Shepard has worked with a maniac. And what happened?

TIM? He wasn't a maniac then. Only ME3 decided to downgrade him from ultra renegade to bat**** crazy chaotic evil.

I do not understand, you played Mass effect and do not know what terrible things Cerberus does? 

[v TricKy v]

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Just ingnore him. Seriously
I noticed in other threads that he and KotorEffect3 bash the refuse ending at every chance they can get.

[KingZayd]

IscrewTali wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Add the 3 options together, and Refuse is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesnt want you to refuse the use of the Crucible, who are you to deny them.

Add the 3 other options together, and Synthesis is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesn't want you to do synthesis, who are you to deny them?

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

That's short-sigthed and narrow minded.

The Geth love you too.

Benefits that can be achieved sooner with the Reapers helping us and upgrades that will leave no one behind.

And force them to keep up even if they don't want to.
The Reapers offer the fast and easy route, as long as we become like them. That was never the theme of Mass Effect.

Their minds and memories were untouched so they are the same people.

I could say the same of the Shepard AI in control.

It gives people upgrades, that is all. The peace is not forced and that is what important.

And if they don't want them? Too bad, huh?
It's like me deciding you need an artificial arm and performing surgery on you without your consent.

Would stop ignoring everything the game tells you because it does not suit your vision of what you want Synthesis to be?

Would YOU stop headcanoning nonsense to make yourself feel better?

The Catalyst never guarantees peaces. If asked directly, it will avoid the question. EDI says time and again how people are free to do what they wish to do, how we have been given a chance. No one has been forced into anything with the exception of having some upgrades. What they do with the new information and upgrades is completely up to them.

It states the cycle will end. The cycle of organics vs. synthetics. It's meaning is clear.
EDI claims freedom, while promoting peace eveerlasting. They are forced, and they are being coerced. The end.

The goal was always the survival of organics and synthetics. It never specified it was restricted to peaceful methods.

IT'S GOAL WAS TO END CONFLICT. NOT PRESERVE ORGANICS. IT CHANGED THAT.

Shepard can be a manipulative genocidal.

Say what? Are you serious? 

Regardless, we're not. We build the Crucible, we activate it. It's our choice and our future.

The Catalyst tried synthesis before. This is it's plan. It's desire. By it's rules.

[Gorkan86]

klarabella wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So let's trust the future to the manipulative genocidal maniac. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.

Not long ago, Shepard has worked with a maniac. And what happened?

For the most part a waste of time and much sidetracking?

But the goal was achieved.

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
As an aside, do you realise how horrific this will be? Mutilated husks gaining conciousness? Realising what they've become? Cannibals? Banshees? Brutes? How about Praetorians. Yeah that'll be fun.

A new age always brings both wonders and horrors. That doesn't mean we should remain stuck in the past.

We do not need the Reapers to achieve cybernetic augmentation and understanding between synthetics and organics.
You want to force it because you fear a future unguided by machine gods.