1300 réponses à ce sujet

[Krunjar]

Shadowvalker wrote...

Hey I got a great idea!

Why don't we do something really fun. Let's make a galactic sex change! And don't worry - you are still you - in a way.. No harme done! Relax. We know what is best for you..

I will probably get some stick for this but you know what. If it saved the galaxy and resulted in aoens of prosperity and peace. I would take it in a blink. But maybe that's because I have felt what its like to be in a warzone and to wonder if the next bomb is going to hit you. When you come face to face with youre own survival instinct you realise just how meaningless all these hormone driven issues are.

[IscrewTali]

The Angry One wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Add the 3 options together, and Refuse is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesnt want you to refuse the use of the Crucible, who are you to deny them.

Because gamer polls with full meta-game knowledge of the endings = in-universe galactic opinion.

Why do pro-synthesis threads always end up like this?

The exact same could be said about Refuse threads. Acting like those choosing refuse are above others, while offering no concrete evidence that their decision is far better than the rest. We are handing out evidence after evidence, which u blatantly dismiss. It's as if someone goes back in time and tries to prove a caveman that earth isnt flat and revolves around the sun, which he then dismisses as magic and lies.

[The Angry One]

IscrewTali wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Add the 3 options together, and Refuse is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesnt want you to refuse the use of the Crucible, who are you to deny them.

Because gamer polls with full meta-game knowledge of the endings = in-universe galactic opinion.

Why do pro-synthesis threads always end up like this?

The exact same could be said about Refuse threads. Acting like those choosing refuse are above others, while offering no concrete evidence that their decision is far better than the rest. We are handing out evidence after evidence, which u blatantly dismiss. It's as if someone goes back in time and tries to prove a caveman that earth isnt flat and revolves around the sun, which he then dismisses as magic and lies.

I don't see any refuse backers claiming that polls on BSN mean anything in-universe.

[The Angry One]

Krunjar wrote...

I will probably get some stick for this but you know what. If it saved the galaxy and resulted in aoens of prosperity and peace. I would take it in a blink. But maybe that's because I have felt what its like to be in a warzone and to wonder if the next bomb is going to hit you. When you come face to face with youre own survival instinct you realise just how meaningless all these hormone driven issues are.

And this is why I'm glad someone like you will never gain a position of authority.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
We do not need the Reapers to achieve cybernetic augmentation and understanding between synthetics and organics.
You want to force it because you fear a future unguided by machine gods.

Quite on the contrary.
I envision  future where organics stand as equals amongst synthetics and the Reapers.

[Ryzaki]

Seriously?

This is why. (First post)

It's a complete and utter abomination and WTF choice. I'd pick Shepard charging Harbinger in the Normandy in a futile suicide attack over this.

[FFmasterIsmael]

It's like the people against synthesis are forgetting that the Catalyst and the reapers where created by organics. The catalyst only goal was to bring balance between organics and synthetics. The Reapers don't have a master plan they were willingly created to keep the peace. Which I think is bull****. Because assuming that any synthetics created by new civilisations will always rebel and kill all organics, as in completely wipe them out, nothings left not even bugs or microscopic organisms. That's seems like overkill. We proved with the Geth that peace is possible. That's why in my opinion a true ending would be just turning the reapers off. No explosions just going, your plan doesn't work so let us do it our way, peace with the Geth is proof if that. But as it stands that option doesn't exist.

So I think out of the choices we get synthesis is the best for the future of the galaxy not just, us in the now but the far future. Because everyone is talking about forcing things on people. But that's how progress happens. just listen to the illusive man about the mass effect relays, if we listened to the nay sayers then we would still be stuck in our own system. It's not the same decision I know, different consequences and all that. The synthesis ending is just this: we get synthetics advancements and they get our emotions and understanding. They stop feeling better than us. They stop feeling that we are obsolete. And we don't join with the reapers, the reapers join us. The catalyst even says this: "When fire burns, is it at war? Is in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do. We harvest your body's, your knowledge, your creations we preserve it. To be reborn in the form of a new reaper. Like a cleansing fire we restore balance. New life both organic and synthetic can once again flourish." That is all they think, the only reason they do what they do, Why would synthesis be what the reapers truly want if in some peoples opinions they are willingly evil and want us all dead. That doesn't make any sense. Synthesis is the option you can make if you did your best. And if you agree with the future that comes from that decision you make it. And I do. And there are always gonna be people who are not happy with that decision but that doesn't make it the wrong one. Just because it doesn't sit well with some of the masses doesn't make it wrong or bull****. What if we lived in a warped world where most people agree cold blooded murder is okay, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it accepted. Same for synthesis just because a part of the masses won't be happy with it, doesn't make it wrong. And everyone still keeps there individual personality just with a more educated look upon life and what life is. That's why with that ending EDI and all other synthetics are truly alive.

[Ryzaki]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
We do not need the Reapers to achieve cybernetic augmentation and understanding between synthetics and organics.
You want to force it because you fear a future unguided by machine gods.

Quite on the contrary.
I envision  future where organics stand as equals amongst synthetics and the Reapers.

...rather counterproductive then eh? Synthesis makes everyone halfbreeds. There are no organics and synthetics anymore.

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
We do not need the Reapers to achieve cybernetic augmentation and understanding between synthetics and organics.
You want to force it because you fear a future unguided by machine gods.

Quite on the contrary.
I envision  future where organics stand as equals amongst synthetics and the Reapers.

There are no more organics and synthetics in synthesis. You made them the same.

Fail.

Edit: Ninja'd. And Ismael, do us a favour and stop copy-pasting your wall of text that tells us nothing that hasn't been countered a billion times by now, thanks.

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:04 .

[DazenCobalt17]

I am not against synthesis at all! I needed a good laugh

[KingZayd]

The Angry One wrote...

The Catalyst never guarantees peaces. If asked directly, it will avoid the question. EDI says time and again how people are free to do what they wish to do, how we have been given a chance. No one has been forced into anything with the exception of having some upgrades. What they do with the new information and upgrades is completely up to them.

It states the cycle will end. The cycle of organics vs. synthetics. It's meaning is clear.
EDI claims freedom, while promoting peace eveerlasting. They are forced, and they are being coerced. The end.

Actually, the cycle is the Reaper Cycle. According to the Starchild organics vs synthetics isn't a cyle, as ALL organic life would be wiped out once, and then no more organics.

[translationninja]

The Angry One wrote...

translationninja wrote...

This would be much easier if you were to say something like "I just hate them to death and therefore I refuse to do anything that doesn't wipe them off the face of the galaxy" which really is the essence of your argument.

I say it again though, they accept violence as their means of accomplishing a goal and so do you, you're not so different from them as you may think.

That's not my argument, and quit pretending this is a philosophical debate. It's not.
They are the enemy. They are not offering peace on equal terms. They offer co-existence if we become like them.

Furthermore, this is not about violence or death. The civilisations trapped within the Reapers are already dead. Killing the Reapers puts them to rest. Shepard said this herself to the Destroyer on Rannoch.
They deserve peace, not to continue to be mockeries of the people the Reapers murdered to please people like you.

I am not pretending a philosophical debate at all, you are. You wish to choose the one option that causes trillions of deaths and now you try to to justify that to yourself or whomever with lofty conceptionalisations of your perceived right and wrong.

Reaper actions = trillions death

Your actions = trillions death

This is the very simple, un-ambiguous and unphilosophical bottom line fact.

Which means that your rationalizations are just as much proverbial sugar-coating as those the Catalyst blaps out.

And to repeat myself again, if you chose the same means as your enemy, than you are no better than your enemy. As a matter of fact, the original intention of the Catalyst was to wipe out organic life. The result of your action or lack thereof is the wiping out of organic life.

Congratulations, Space Brat really loves you...

[IscrewTali]

The Angry One wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Add the 3 options together, and Refuse is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesnt want you to refuse the use of the Crucible, who are you to deny them.

Because gamer polls with full meta-game knowledge of the endings = in-universe galactic opinion.

Why do pro-synthesis threads always end up like this?

The exact same could be said about Refuse threads. Acting like those choosing refuse are above others, while offering no concrete evidence that their decision is far better than the rest. We are handing out evidence after evidence, which u blatantly dismiss. It's as if someone goes back in time and tries to prove a caveman that earth isnt flat and revolves around the sun, which he then dismisses as magic and lies.

I don't see any refuse backers claiming that polls on BSN mean anything in-universe.

Dismissal and nullifying(is it the right word) any opposition, without offering any real evidence to support theirs.

[The Angry One]

KingZayd wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Catalyst never guarantees peaces. If asked directly, it will avoid the question. EDI says time and again how people are free to do what they wish to do, how we have been given a chance. No one has been forced into anything with the exception of having some upgrades. What they do with the new information and upgrades is completely up to them.

It states the cycle will end. The cycle of organics vs. synthetics. It's meaning is clear.
EDI claims freedom, while promoting peace eveerlasting. They are forced, and they are being coerced. The end.

Actually, the cycle is the Reaper Cycle. According to the Starchild organics vs synthetics isn't a cyle, as ALL organic life would be wiped out once, and then no more organics.

Catalyst: (on destroy) "Soon, your children will create synthetics and the cycle will begin again."

[AxStapleton]

IscrewTali wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

In a democratic society, those choosing Refuse are in the minority, their opinion doesnt matter. The fact remains, that the majority would choose to use the Crucible to save the galaxy.

Actually...

there was a poll... and refuse was on second place...

Control and synthesis shared third place (last I checked that poll... synthesis was 1 vote down from Control)

Add the 3 options together, and Refuse is in the minority. If the majority of the galaxy doesnt want you to refuse the use of the Crucible, who are you to deny them.

Because gamer polls with full meta-game knowledge of the endings = in-universe galactic opinion.

Why do pro-synthesis threads always end up like this?

The exact same could be said about Refuse threads. Acting like those choosing refuse are above others, while offering no concrete evidence that their decision is far better than the rest. We are handing out evidence after evidence, which u blatantly dismiss. It's as if someone goes back in time and tries to prove a caveman that earth isnt flat and revolves around the sun, which he then dismisses as magic and lies.

I don't see any refuse backers claiming that polls on BSN mean anything in-universe.

Dismissal and nullifying(is it the right word) any opposition, without offering any real evidence to support theirs.

TBH, this is the jist of most ending threads.

[Forbry]

Krunjar wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Hey I got a great idea!

Why don't we do something really fun. Let's make a galactic sex change! And don't worry - you are still you - in a way.. No harme done! Relax. We know what is best for you..

I will probably get some stick for this but you know what. If it saved the galaxy and resulted in aoens of prosperity and peace. I would take it in a blink. But maybe that's because I have felt what its like to be in a warzone and to wonder if the next bomb is going to hit you. When you come face to face with youre own survival instinct you realise just how meaningless all these hormone driven issues are.

[Gorkan86]

The Angry One wrote...

There are no more organics and synthetics in synthesis. You made them the same.

Fail.

But evolution continues.

[Baldrick67]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
As an aside, do you realise how horrific this will be? Mutilated husks gaining conciousness? Realising what they've become? Cannibals? Banshees? Brutes? How about Praetorians. Yeah that'll be fun.

A new age always brings both wonders and horrors. That doesn't mean we should remain stuck in the past.

Looking at your avatar shows just how "wonderous" your future would be. Impaled on a spike and being changed into a husk isn't a new age with any promise.

[The Angry One]

translationninja wrote...

I am not pretending a philosophical debate at all, you are. You wish to choose the one option that causes trillions of deaths and now you try to to justify that to yourself or whomever with lofty conceptionalisations of your perceived right and wrong.

Reaper actions = trillions death

Your actions = trillions death

This is the very simple, un-ambiguous and unphilosophical bottom line fact.

I choose an option that resists and defies the Reapers. You meta-game to hold me responsible for trillions of deaths when a) Shepard doesn't know that for sure and  It's the Catalyst doing it, not Shepard.

Which means that your rationalizations are just as much proverbial sugar-coating as those the Catalyst blaps out.

And to repeat myself again, if you chose the same means as your enemy, than you are no better than your enemy. As a matter of fact, the original intention of the Catalyst was to wipe out organic life. The result of your action or lack thereof is the wiping out of organic life.

I choose to fight my enemy for using those means.
You choose to believe your enemy and do what it says.

Congratulations, Space Brat really loves you...

No, it hates me, for I defy it..
It loves you, for you obey it.

[KingZayd]

The Angry One wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Catalyst never guarantees peaces. If asked directly, it will avoid the question. EDI says time and again how people are free to do what they wish to do, how we have been given a chance. No one has been forced into anything with the exception of having some upgrades. What they do with the new information and upgrades is completely up to them.

It states the cycle will end. The cycle of organics vs. synthetics. It's meaning is clear.
EDI claims freedom, while promoting peace eveerlasting. They are forced, and they are being coerced. The end.

Actually, the cycle is the Reaper Cycle. According to the Starchild organics vs synthetics isn't a cyle, as ALL organic life would be wiped out once, and then no more organics.

Catalyst: (on destroy) "Soon, your children will create synthetics and the cycle will begin again."

Then that's another contradiction. If ALL organic life is wiped out, there can be no cycle.

[Jackums]

translationninja wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

translationninja wrote...

This would be much easier if you were to say something like "I just hate them to death and therefore I refuse to do anything that doesn't wipe them off the face of the galaxy" which really is the essence of your argument.

I say it again though, they accept violence as their means of accomplishing a goal and so do you, you're not so different from them as you may think.

That's not my argument, and quit pretending this is a philosophical debate. It's not.
They are the enemy. They are not offering peace on equal terms. They offer co-existence if we become like them.

Furthermore, this is not about violence or death. The civilisations trapped within the Reapers are already dead. Killing the Reapers puts them to rest. Shepard said this herself to the Destroyer on Rannoch.
They deserve peace, not to continue to be mockeries of the people the Reapers murdered to please people like you.

I am not pretending a philosophical debate at all, you are. You wish to choose the one option that causes trillions of deaths and now you try to to justify that to yourself or whomever with lofty conceptionalisations of your perceived right and wrong.

Reaper actions = trillions death

Your actions = trillions death

This is the very simple, un-ambiguous and unphilosophical bottom line fact.

Which means that your rationalizations are just as much proverbial sugar-coating as those the Catalyst blaps out.

And to repeat myself again, if you chose the same means as your enemy, than you are no better than your enemy. As a matter of fact, the original intention of the Catalyst was to wipe out organic life. The result of your action or lack thereof is the wiping out of organic life.

Congratulations, Space Brat really loves you...

http://thesecularity.com/download/file.php?id=7457

[IscrewTali]

The Angry One wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Catalyst never guarantees peaces. If asked directly, it will avoid the question. EDI says time and again how people are free to do what they wish to do, how we have been given a chance. No one has been forced into anything with the exception of having some upgrades. What they do with the new information and upgrades is completely up to them.

It states the cycle will end. The cycle of organics vs. synthetics. It's meaning is clear.
EDI claims freedom, while promoting peace eveerlasting. They are forced, and they are being coerced. The end.

Actually, the cycle is the Reaper Cycle. According to the Starchild organics vs synthetics isn't a cyle, as ALL organic life would be wiped out once, and then no more organics.

Catalyst: (on destroy) "Soon, your children will create synthetics and the cycle will begin again."

And exactly what would start this new cycle? Reaper 2.0?

[Gorkan86]

Baldrick67 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
As an aside, do you realise how horrific this will be? Mutilated husks gaining conciousness? Realising what they've become? Cannibals? Banshees? Brutes? How about Praetorians. Yeah that'll be fun.

A new age always brings both wonders and horrors. That doesn't mean we should remain stuck in the past.

Looking at your avatar shows just how "wonderous" your future would be. Impaled on a spike and being changed into a husk isn't a new age with any promise.

This is an excellent demonstration of what happens if you Refuse.

[General User]

Ryzaki wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
We do not need the Reapers to achieve cybernetic augmentation and understanding between synthetics and organics.
You want to force it because you fear a future unguided by machine gods.

Quite on the contrary.
I envision  future where organics stand as equals amongst synthetics and the Reapers.

...rather counterproductive then eh? Synthesis makes everyone halfbreeds. There are no organics and synthetics anymore.

Aye.  Plus, even if they did have their differences, organics and synthetics were already standing as equals without Synthesis.

[translationninja]

It has just come to me how silly the notion of a Shep that just sits back with a pouty face doing nothing at basically what seems to be the pivotal point in the survival of organic life really is.