1300 réponses à ce sujet

[Forbry]

[quote]translationninja wrote...

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]translationninja wrote...

This would be much easier if you were to say something like "I just hate them to death and therefore I refuse to do anything that doesn't wipe them off the face of the galaxy" which really is the essence of your argument.

I say it again though, they accept violence as their means of accomplishing a goal and so do you, you're not so different from them as you may think.
[/quote]

That's not my argument, and quit pretending this is a philosophical debate. It's not.
They are the enemy. They are not offering peace on equal terms. They offer co-existence if we become like them.

Furthermore, this is not about violence or death. The civilisations trapped within the Reapers are already dead. Killing the Reapers puts them to rest. Shepard said this herself to the Destroyer on Rannoch.
They deserve peace, not to continue to be mockeries of the people the Reapers murdered to please people like you.

[/quote]

I am not pretending a philosophical debate at all, you are. You wish to choose the one option that causes trillions of deaths and now you try to to justify that to yourself or whomever with lofty conceptionalisations of your perceived right and wrong.

Reaper actions = trillions death

Your actions = trillions death

This is the very simple, un-ambiguous and unphilosophical bottom line fact.

Which means that your rationalizations are just as much proverbial sugar-coating as those the Catalyst blaps out.

And to repeat myself again, if you chose the same means as your enemy, than you are no better than your enemy. As a matter of fact, the original intention of the Catalyst was to wipe out organic life. The result of your action or lack thereof is the wiping out of organic life.

Congratulations, Space Brat really loves you...[/quote]

I like your posts!

Modifié par Forbry, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:13 .

[The Angry One]

IscrewTali wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Catalyst never guarantees peaces. If asked directly, it will avoid the question. EDI says time and again how people are free to do what they wish to do, how we have been given a chance. No one has been forced into anything with the exception of having some upgrades. What they do with the new information and upgrades is completely up to them.

It states the cycle will end. The cycle of organics vs. synthetics. It's meaning is clear.
EDI claims freedom, while promoting peace eveerlasting. They are forced, and they are being coerced. The end.

Actually, the cycle is the Reaper Cycle. According to the Starchild organics vs synthetics isn't a cyle, as ALL organic life would be wiped out once, and then no more organics.

Catalyst: (on destroy) "Soon, your children will create synthetics and the cycle will begin again."

And exactly what would start this new cycle? Reaper 2.0?

It's talking about synthetics fighting organics.
Yes, if synthetics destroyed organic life it wouldn't be a "cycle". But sometimes it says destroy organic life, other times it says conflict.
The Catalyst is an inconsistent idiot. No new information there.

[The Angry One]

Are the pro-synthesis crowd done patting themselves on the back for an already refuted argument or do you have anything left to say? Just wondering.

[Forbry]

*sorry, double*

Modifié par Forbry, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:15 .

[General User]

What really makes Synthesis such a horrible choice is that it requires you to buy into the Catalyst's philosophy and worldview, which anyone who puts any real thought into can see are both total bunk.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
And force them to keep up even if they don't want to.
The Reapers offer the fast and easy route, as long as we become like them. That was never the theme of Mass Effect.

If you don't keep up, you are left behind. Why would anyone wish to be left behind?

The Reapers are conjoined mind of entire species. An upgraded organic is just that, an upgraded organic.
Complately different.

And if they don't want them? Too bad, huh?
It's like me deciding you need an artificial arm and performing surgery on you without your consent.

If it works better than my fleshy ones, be my guest.
What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Would YOU stop headcanoning nonsense to make yourself feel better?

Everything I've said comes from the game. You're the one who keeps inventing new characteristics that were not present in the EC.

It states the cycle will end. The cycle of organics vs. synthetics. It's meaning is clear.

No, it means the Cycle of Preservation caused by the Reapers. That ended.

EDI claims freedom, while promoting peace eveerlasting. They are forced, and they are being coerced. The end.

EDI promoted no such thing. She said we are at peace now and there is a chance we can finally co-exists.
No one is being coerced. The end.

IT'S GOAL WAS TO END CONFLICT. NOT PRESERVE ORGANICS. IT CHANGED THAT.

You know, I had never realized how right you were before you started using CapsLock. It's remarkable.

Whhy do people wish for an end to conflict? To save lives which is what it did, from a certain point of view.

Say what? Are you serious?

Shepard can manipulate the krogan into believing they are cured.
Kill the Rachni Queen or a Reaper and you've just commited a genocide.

The Catalyst tried synthesis before. This is it's plan. It's desire. By it's rules.

The worth of an idea is not affected by those who support it.

[Forbry]

The Angry One wrote...

Are the pro-synthesis crowd done patting themselves on the back for an already refuted argument or do you have anything left to say? Just wondering.

I'm in a more "listening" mood right now

[Ryzaki]

@JB: Actually starbrat claims that if Synthesis isn't wanted it can't be forced...So yeah the worth of Synthesis is highly affected by it being supported or not. If it's not wanted...it won't work.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:17 .

[IscrewTali]

At least they seem to understand other people's choices, unlike some.

[Krunjar]

The Angry One wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

I will probably get some stick for this but you know what. If it saved the galaxy and resulted in aoens of prosperity and peace. I would take it in a blink. But maybe that's because I have felt what its like to be in a warzone and to wonder if the next bomb is going to hit you. When you come face to face with youre own survival instinct you realise just how meaningless all these hormone driven issues are.

And this is why I'm glad someone like you will never gain a position of authority.

Someone Like me? what do you think you know about me? That sentence honestly offends me. On so many different levels. The political naievety that you think people worse than scum aren't running the world right now. The totalitarian inference that my argument somehow made me "unworthy" of authority because I disagreed with you. My god you are just .. well .. not worth any continuation of this discussion to be sure.

[Aylyese]

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
There are no more organics and synthetics in synthesis. You made them the same.

Fail.

No, I didn't. Synthesis affects organics and synthetics differently. We may be closer than we were before but we are still distinct forms of life.

General User wrote...
Aye.  Plus, even if they did have their differences, organics and synthetics were already standing as equals without Synthesis.

Picture a race of EDIs with the same numbers as humanity.
We won't be equals for long.

[translationninja]

Krunjar wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

I will probably get some stick for this but you know what. If it saved the galaxy and resulted in aoens of prosperity and peace. I would take it in a blink. But maybe that's because I have felt what its like to be in a warzone and to wonder if the next bomb is going to hit you. When you come face to face with youre own survival instinct you realise just how meaningless all these hormone driven issues are.

And this is why I'm glad someone like you will never gain a position of authority.

Someone Like me? what do you think you know about me? That sentence honestly offends me. On so many different levels. The political naievety that you think people worse than scum aren't running the world right now. The totalitarian inference that my argument somehow made me "unworthy" of authority because I disagreed with you. My god you are just .. well .. not worth any continuation of this discussion to be sure.

Yeah I'm sure everyone alive would prefer someone in authority that would risk their lives for some lofty Hollywood-style exit, who would sit back pouting risking their lives and the lives of all those they know so they can say "uhm I dinnt do what the wanted, we win, we're all dead, but we win"

Modifié par translationninja, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:20 .

[v TricKy v]

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

^
this 1000 times
NOTHING goes over individual rights

Modifié par v TricKy v, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:21 .

[Gorkan86]

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

 Terrifying that some people can not accept that there are different people have different opinions.

[Escocido]

I still don't understand this:

if, without metagaming, the starchild tells you that synthesis is fine, end of evolution etc and you believe him, why not believe him in that reaping is not killing, but ascending? In this scenario the reject ending would allow the species of the galaxy to ascend. Seems to me like you are cherry picking what you believe of what the kid tells you and what you don't.

[General User]

Synthesis is also a terrible choice because it doesn't promise or give us anything we didn't already have.

EDI feeling alive? She had that.
Organics and Synthetics peacefully coexisting? Going strong and getting stronger.
Nifty little gadgets and gizmos? We invented those ourselves.

Synthesis has no upside all it's own. The only real "benefit" Synthesis offers is the opportunity to avoid the downsides of the other choices.

[translationninja]

v TricKy v wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

^
this 1000 times

Not terrifying at all, it's a basic biological principle...

[MisterJB]

Ryzaki wrote...

@JB: Actually starbrat claims that if Synthesis isn't wanted it can't be forced...So yeah the worth of Synthesis is highly affected by it being supported or not. If it's not wanted...it won't work.

I meant "Fallacy by association".
I find it illogical to refuse Synthesis just because the Catalyst thinks it is a good idea.

The Illusive Man killed millions. That is bad.
The Illusive Mand drinked Thessia Red. Thus, drinking Thessia Red must be bad.

Modifié par MisterJB, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:23 .

[Zoonz]

Why is everyone so against Synthesis?

Because its daft! If I'd known back on Virmire that I would end up watching Reapers pick daisies I would have stopped playing there and then.

[Aylyese]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

 Terrifying that some people can not accept that there are different people have different opinions.

I never said he couldn't believe it. You got that all on your own.

I only said that it is terrifying that he does. 

[General User]

MisterJB wrote...
Picture a race of EDIs with the same numbers as humanity.
We won't be equals for long.

EDI was faithful and kind to her friends, loyal in her duty, and zealous in her defense of those who could not defend themselves.  We would fortunate indeed to share the galaxy with such a race. 

Modifié par General User, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:24 .

[IscrewTali]

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

But it's true. If all humans are taken away the right to own anything using fossil materials, so that Earth would survive, it takes precedence. The only reason this hasnt already happened is due to corrupt governments, and greed. And this is only 1 example of endless examples.

[Aylyese]

translationninja wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

^
this 1000 times

Not terrifying at all, it's a basic biological principle...

Human rights begs to differ. If we lived by this principle, we would already be practicing eugenics. 

[Ryzaki]

MisterJB wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@JB: Actually starbrat claims that if Synthesis isn't wanted it can't be forced...So yeah the worth of Synthesis is highly affected by it being supported or not. If it's not wanted...it won't work.

I meant "Fallacy by association".
I find it illogical to refuse Synthesis just because the Catalyst thinks it is a good idea.

The Illusive Man killed millions. That is bad.
The Illusive Mand drinked Thessia Red. Thus, drinking Thessia Red must be bad.

Not even remotely accurate.

Starbrat killed countless lives (and has unsuccessfully attempted Synthesis probably more than once) because he somehow thinks killing everyone and mushing them into a mecha chtulu makes more sense than seeing if they'll learn to cooperate.