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[Jackums]

I have no problem with Synthesis, personally. There's nothing presented in the game or EC that suggests any of this nonsensical brainwashing fanfic occurs. I'm a Control kinda guy, but I do find Synthesis to be the most beneficial outcome for the galaxy as a whole. It doesn't suit me or my Shepard, though I respect it as an option.

The Angry One wrote...

Would YOU stop headcanoning nonsense to make yourself feel better?

[Gorkan86]

Shepard destroyed a whole Batarian system. For Greater Good of course.

[IscrewTali]

General User wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Picture a race of EDIs with the same numbers as humanity.
We won't be equals for long.

EDI was faithful and kind to her friends, loyal in her duty, and zealous in her defense of those who could not defend themselves.  We would fortunate indeed to share the galaxy with such a race. 

So you're saying, that because a mother is kind and loving, that her son is also? dont fool yourself. It takes 1 rotten apple to spoil the bunch.

[Ryzaki]

General User wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Picture a race of EDIs with the same numbers as humanity.
We won't be equals for long.

EDI was faithful and kind to her friends, loyal in her duty, and zealous in her defense of those who could not defend themselves.  We would fortunate indeed to share the galaxy with such a race. 

This.

EDI being physically stronger (in mech body) and more intelligent did not lead to her becoming an evil overlord. Sure some might (hi there Reapers) but those who don't will help us fight against those that do.

[Aylyese]

IscrewTali wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

But it's true. If all humans are taken away the right to own anything using fossil materials, so that Earth would survive, it takes precedence. The only reason this hasnt already happened is due to corrupt governments, and greed. And this is only 1 example of endless examples.

If we took away the right of people to breed because they are pre-disposed to cancers through genetics, because it is the best thing for the species, then we become monsters.

[Zandilar]

Krunjar wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Hey I got a great idea!

Why don't we do something really fun. Let's make a galactic sex change! And don't worry - you are still you - in a way.. No harme done! Relax. We know what is best for you..

I will probably get some stick for this but you know what. If it saved the galaxy and resulted in aoens of prosperity and peace. I would take it in a blink. But maybe that's because I have felt what its like to be in a warzone and to wonder if the next bomb is going to hit you. When you come face to face with youre own survival instinct you realise just how meaningless all these hormone driven issues are.

Here's some stick - survival instinct (flight or fight) is largely hormone driven anyway, so of course hormones are going to play a role.

Also, just because you feel that way doesn't mean that every one of the trillions (upon trillions?) of entites in the galaxy feels the same way, or that your instincts give you any right to make decisions for them without their knowledge or consent. (Taking into consideration also that not every entity has exactly the same set of instincts, and that some of those entities are synthetics.)

[IscrewTali]

Aylyese wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

But it's true. If all humans are taken away the right to own anything using fossil materials, so that Earth would survive, it takes precedence. The only reason this hasnt already happened is due to corrupt governments, and greed. And this is only 1 example of endless examples.

If we took away the right of people to breed because they are pre-disposed to cancers through genetics, because it is the best thing for the species, then we become monsters.

if it becomes a pandemic, YES.

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

If you don't keep up, you are left behind. Why would anyone wish to be left behind?

Their choice.

The Reapers are conjoined mind of entire species. An upgraded organic is just that, an upgraded organic.
Complately different.

A husk by any other name.

If it works better than my fleshy ones, be my guest.
What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

No. Seriously. No. As sapient species the right of the individual is paramount.
Otherwise we might as well be a dictatorship. Or a collective. Or a Reaper.

Everything I've said comes from the game. You're the one who keeps inventing new characteristics that were not present in the EC.

Uhuh. Yeah, sure. Like how "organics and synthetics will get along now" despite, you know, all being hybrids.

No, it means the Cycle of Preservation caused by the Reapers. That ended.

It ends in all 3 choices. Yet, it specifically mentions it here? Why? Because it's talking about the cycle of organics and synthetics.

EDI promoted no such thing. She said we are at peace now and there is a chance we can finally co-exists.
No one is being coerced. The end.

While Reapers happily stomp around perfectly docile people. No conflict and no issues. Yeah, right.

You know, I had never realized how right you were before you started using CapsLock. It's remarkable.

Whhy do people wish for an end to conflict? To save lives which is what it did, from a certain point of view.

Irrelevant. The fact remains, achieving peace was it's directive. Organic life was not in danger, it's creators were simply tired of conflict.

Shepard can manipulate the krogan into believing they are cured.
Kill the Rachni Queen or a Reaper and you've just commited a genocide.

Technical genocide =! actual genocide.

Also, stop with this Reaper nonsense. I've had enough. It's nonsense.
The civilisations used to construct Reapers are DEAD. You can no more commit genocide on a Reaper because of it's construction material than you are commiting murder on a dinosaur because you blow up a car that's using fossil fuel.

The worth of an idea is not affected by those who support it.

Eugenics.

[Carlthestrange]

I see mostly philosophy in the Synthesis debate (The idea of everything we are being changed is of course, very controversial.)

And while I respect the opinions of both sides (We are each entitled to see the endings in our own way) I see Synthesis having to be defended far more often than Destroy or Control.

And in the great debate world, I find if an idea has to be defended so much, there must be a flaw in the idea that many pick up on.

[translationninja]

The Angry One wrote...

Are the pro-synthesis crowd done patting themselves on the back for an already refuted argument or do you have anything left to say? Just wondering.

The problem is you haven't really refuted anything, not within the true meaning of the word refuted.  You have merely expressed disagreement based on personal opinion and preference.

[KingZayd]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
There are no more organics and synthetics in synthesis. You made them the same.

Fail.

No, I didn't. Synthesis affects organics and synthetics differently. We may be closer than we were before but we are still distinct forms of life.

General User wrote...
Aye.  Plus, even if they did have their differences, organics and synthetics were already standing as equals without Synthesis.

Picture a race of EDIs with the same numbers as humanity.
We won't be equals for long.

So if Synthetics and Organics are affected differently, how are Reapers affected? Also, how is EDI any more alive than before synthesis?

[The Angry One]

translationninja wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Are the pro-synthesis crowd done patting themselves on the back for an already refuted argument or do you have anything left to say? Just wondering.

The problem is you haven't really refuted anything, not within the true meaning of the word refuted.  You have merely expressed disagreement based on personal opinion and preference.

I've refuted everything you've said at least, while facepalming at how truly disturbing some pro-synthesis arguments are getting. Don't think I'm the only one.

[MisterJB]

General User wrote...
EDI was faithful and kind to her friends, loyal in her duty, and zealous in her defense of those who could not defend themselves.  We would fortunate indeed to share the galaxy with such a race. 

EDI is an individual. Because she did not choose to use her superior capabilities to place herself above others, it doesn't mean other AIs with the same capabiltities as EDI would do the same.

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

General User wrote...
EDI was faithful and kind to her friends, loyal in her duty, and zealous in her defense of those who could not defend themselves.  We would fortunate indeed to share the galaxy with such a race. 

EDI is an individual. Because she did not choose to use her superior capabilities to place herself above others, it doesn't mean other AIs with the same capabiltities as EDI would do the same.

Amusing that you speak of fear, while acting terrified of another species for being what they are.

[ghost9191]

FFmasterIsmael wrote...

It's like the people against synthesis are forgetting that the Catalyst and the reapers where created by organics. The catalyst only goal was to bring balance between organics and synthetics. The Reapers don't have a master plan they were willingly created to keep the peace. Which I think is bull****. Because assuming that any synthetics created by new civilisations will always rebel and kill all organics, as in completely wipe them out, nothings left not even bugs or microscopic organisms. That's seems like overkill. We proved with the Geth that peace is possible. That's why in my opinion a true ending would be just turning the reapers off. No explosions just going, your plan doesn't work so let us do it our way, peace with the Geth is proof if that. But as it stands that option doesn't exist.

So I think out of the choices we get synthesis is the best for the future of the galaxy not just, us in the now but the far future. Because everyone is talking about forcing things on people. But that's how progress happens. just listen to the illusive man about the mass effect relays, if we listened to the nay sayers then we would still be stuck in our own system. It's not the same decision I know, different consequences and all that. The synthesis ending is just this: we get synthetics advancements and they get our emotions and understanding. They stop feeling better than us. They stop feeling that we are obsolete. And we don't join with the reapers, the reapers join us. The catalyst even says this: "When fire burns, is it at war? Is in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do. We harvest your body's, your knowledge, your creations we preserve it. To be reborn in the form of a new reaper. Like a cleansing fire we restore balance. New life both organic and synthetic can once again flourish." That is all they think, the only reason they do what they do, Why would synthesis be what the reapers truly want if in some peoples opinions they are willingly evil and want us all dead. That doesn't make any sense. Synthesis is the option you can make if you did your best. And if you agree with the future that comes from that decision you make it. And I do. And there are always gonna be people who are not happy with that decision but that doesn't make it the wrong one. Just because it doesn't sit well with some of the masses doesn't make it wrong or bull****. What if we lived in a warped world where most people agree cold blooded murder is okay, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it accepted. Same for synthesis just because a part of the masses won't be happy with it, doesn't make it wrong. And everyone still keeps there individual personality just with a more educated look upon life and what life is. That's why with that ending EDI and all other synthetics are truly alive.

the catalyst rebelled against it;s creators by turning them into teh first reapers against their will

[Krunjar]

Individual rights have always been sublimated in extreme situations. It's sad but it's also the way the world has to work. Because the universe doesn't care about our morality. That's why even good intentioned politicians must sometimes do evil things. The people at the top have to make the big decisions. So that everyone else can go around believing that the universe is fair and just. And that is what is reflected in the star child he gives you a choice. And making any choice even refusal is by very definition trampling on the rights of everyone not present to voice their opinion. But this is how it has to be because the universe doesn't care about our morality. And even refusing to make a choice IS a choice with it's own consequences. Choosing for everyone is already inevitable from the moment Shepard is given it. It has nothing to do with conventional morality. I don't mind if people want to choose any other ending. They are all fine but stop bashing synthesis! I could just as easily bash the bad points of destroy. Shall I post up a wallpaper with loads of dead geth and a catchy "Does this unit have a soul?" line for those who love destroy?

[Ryzaki]

Actually I'd love to see Miranda's reaction to Synthesis.

I'm pretty sure she would not be pleased. Shep would probably give her disturbing parallels to her father.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:34 .

[Vigilant111]

MisterJB wrote...

General User wrote...
EDI was faithful and kind to her friends, loyal in her duty, and zealous in her defense of those who could not defend themselves.  We would fortunate indeed to share the galaxy with such a race. 

EDI is an individual. Because she did not choose to use her superior capabilities to place herself above others, it doesn't mean other AIs with the same capabiltities as EDI would do the same.

Everything is all in balance, yes, some may become evil, but resistance against this evil will also rise

[IscrewTali]

Carlthestrange wrote...

I see mostly philosophy in the Synthesis debate (The idea of everything we are being changed is of course, very controversial.)

And while I respect the opinions of both sides (We are each entitled to see the endings in our own way) I see Synthesis having to be defended far more often than Destroy or Control.

And in the great debate world, I find if an idea has to be defended so much, there must be a flaw in the idea that many pick up on.

Both synthesis and refusal belong in this category.

[Ridwan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually I'd love to see Miranda's reaction to Synthesis.

I'm pretty sure she would not be pleased.

I'm pretty sure no one would be pleased, except those that think being a robot is super cool.

Modifié par M25105, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:34 .

[Aylyese]

IscrewTali wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

IscrewTali wrote...

Aylyese wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What is good for the species as a whole takes precedence over individual rights.

Terrifying that you actually believe that.

But it's true. If all humans are taken away the right to own anything using fossil materials, so that Earth would survive, it takes precedence. The only reason this hasnt already happened is due to corrupt governments, and greed. And this is only 1 example of endless examples.

If we took away the right of people to breed because they are pre-disposed to cancers through genetics, because it is the best thing for the species, then we become monsters.

if it becomes a pandemic, YES.

I am not entirely sure there is more I can say anymore. You scare me. You would forcably steralise humans to prevent them from breeding? Seriously?

Just, wow.

[Carlthestrange]

IscrewTali wrote...

Both synthesis and refusal belong in this category.

Both in the controversial catagory, yes. But statisticly, Synthesis remains the most complained about ending for ME3.

[The Angry One]

I don't know who I find scarier, the people who think synthesis is good, or the people who recognise it as the violation it is but promote it's use anyway "for the greater good" and "tough decisions that must be made."

Again, it's sad that Mass Effect of all things is what people can now use to promote these... views.

[Krunjar]

Yeah the rules change when survival is whats on the table all im sayin. If you think you  live in a world without that logic then well I envy youre trouble free existance. And you had better stop underhandedly accusing me of Fascism. Any form of government follows this logic at some level or another. If you are too blind to see how the world really works then that's not my problem.

Modifié par Krunjar, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:39 .

[Ryzaki]

M25105 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually I'd love to see Miranda's reaction to Synthesis.

I'm pretty sure she would not be pleased.

I'm pretty sure no one would be pleased, except those that think being a robot is super cool.

EDI's apparently pleased.

But then again she might just be the ONE OF US party line.

Seriously everything in this http://social.biowar.../index/12857070 just *shivers* It's ****ing scary as hell when I think about it.