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[Ryzaki]

Caenis wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Caenis wrote...

Ok...so then why are you people f*** getting angry that in our choice we achieved something everyone was all happy with...and telling us our choice was worse than your choice because of what happened in YOUR HEADCANON?

Because you're violating all galatic life and  appeasing their enemies that slaughtered friends and family by the truckload. 

It's the ultimate insult to everyone who fought and died so Shep could make that decision. Far more than Reject could ever be.

YES but that's in YOUR HEAD. Apparantly Not everyone agrees that's a violation...SO deal with it.

How is that in my head? That's exactly what Shep does! Hell he even screwed with plants and non-intelligent animals! He modified ALL organic life. NOT SOME. ALL.

And yes it's a massive violation. Deal with it.

[vixvicco]

CHALET wrote...

You're turning everybody into what are essentially perfect Husks. "We are the harbringers of your perfection" and all that.

This too ^^ 

[Malditor]

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Malditor wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Forbry wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Forbry wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Malditor wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Forbry wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

Why I don't fancy synthesis:

Because it is not natures own evolution.[/quote]
So, it just better to kill people then?
[/quote]

Yes! It's the universal law of life

[/quote]
Interesting, following this idea anyone who gets sick should just be allowed to die instead of finding ways to cure them or prevent others from getting the same illness. We are constantly finding ways to improve ourselves and become more able to survive. However, by your philosphy we should just accept death in whatever form it comes in because it's the law of life.[/quote]

Yes! When death comes - well it bloody well comes! You can fight it all you want but it comes anyway. You accept life but not death? The you should not have swum as fast as you did when you were a merly spem.

[/quote]

Oh come on, I'm sure you live your life in utter contradiction with anything you've just written there.[/quote]

Nope. That it's actually the way I live - sorry to disappoint you.

[/quote]

You never have visited a doctor in your life? You've never taken medicines or other kind of treatment? You never advised (or wanted) someone else (to do) any of these things?
[/quote]

That is beside the point - but I don't understand what people have against life? Do you resent the seasons as well? Do you truely only want summer or winter?

For every action there is a reaction. Everything has a counterpart. The univers began and supprise - it will end at some point.

[/quote]
Actually that is exactly the point, by going to the doctor/taking medicine you are prolonging your life which is fighting against death... Exact opposite of what you stated you would do.
[/quote]

Then the next claim you make should be that eating is to prolong life?

[/quote]
Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.

[Jayleia]

translationninja wrote...

There is no indication or clue in the game whatsoever that would indicate people turn into "brainwashed" or "mindless" husks by synthesis.

People really make this up as they go.

just saying...

The Reapers have been killing us by the billions, mind-controlling our friends and family to kill us.  Tell me WHY we'd suddenly think that LIVE Reapers are a good idea?

HOW does that NOT require mind-control?

We have people on earth still killing each other for stuff that happened ten CENTURIES ago, and then you think they'll instantly live in peace with the Reapers for trying to kill us ten SECONDS ago, without completely screwing over someone's mind?

[RebelReya]

Caenis wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Caenis wrote...

Ok...so then why are you people f*** getting angry that in our choice we achieved something everyone was all happy with...and telling us our choice was worse than your choice because of what happened in YOUR HEADCANON?

Because you're violating all galatic life and  appeasing their enemies that slaughtered friends and family by the truckload. 

It's the ultimate insult to everyone who fought and died so Shep could make that decision. Far more than Reject could ever be.

YES but that's in YOUR HEAD. Apparantly Not everyone agrees that's a violation...SO deal with it.

If you don't think altering everyone in the entire universe, for some pretty images, is wrong, than you might have something in common with a fair number of evil dictators who also saught prefection for the rest of their known universe.

Modifié par RebelReya, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:52 .

[richard_rider]

Aside from the moral, ethical, and whatever other problems exist with synthesis, my biggest problem with synthesis is the "final evolution" bit.

Evolution is not final, that's the point of it, perfection doesn't exist, it is an unachievable goal that makes us strive to be better. Besides, I don't think anyone has really "earned" it, they simply have it thrust upon them.

[Ryzaki]

Jayleia wrote...

translationninja wrote...

There is no indication or clue in the game whatsoever that would indicate people turn into "brainwashed" or "mindless" husks by synthesis.

People really make this up as they go.

just saying...

The Reapers have been killing us by the billions, mind-controlling our friends and family to kill us.  Tell me WHY we'd suddenly think that LIVE Reapers are a good idea?

HOW does that NOT require mind-control?

We have people on earth still killing each other for stuff that happened ten CENTURIES ago, and then you think they'll instantly live in peace with the Reapers for trying to kill us ten SECONDS ago, without completely screwing over someone's mind?

Seriously. Synthesis has to completely ignore human nature (and hell...every alien's nature as well) to make any sense. Most people would be in FU stage. So many lost families, loved ones, friends. You can't just go to being "oh yay they're teaching us!" after something like that. Humans don't work that way. Some sure but all? Hell no.

[Shadowvalker]

[quote]Malditor wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Malditor wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Forbry wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Forbry wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Malditor wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

[quote]Forbry wrote...

[quote]Shadowvalker wrote...

Why I don't fancy synthesis:

Because it is not natures own evolution.[/quote]
So, it just better to kill people then?
[/quote]

Yes! It's the universal law of life

[/quote]
Interesting, following this idea anyone who gets sick should just be allowed to die instead of finding ways to cure them or prevent others from getting the same illness. We are constantly finding ways to improve ourselves and become more able to survive. However, by your philosphy we should just accept death in whatever form it comes in because it's the law of life.[/quote]

Yes! When death comes - well it bloody well comes! You can fight it all you want but it comes anyway. You accept life but not death? The you should not have swum as fast as you did when you were a merly spem.

[/quote]

Oh come on, I'm sure you live your life in utter contradiction with anything you've just written there.[/quote]

Nope. That it's actually the way I live - sorry to disappoint you.

[/quote]

You never have visited a doctor in your life? You've never taken medicines or other kind of treatment? You never advised (or wanted) someone else (to do) any of these things?
[/quote]

That is beside the point - but I don't understand what people have against life? Do you resent the seasons as well? Do you truely only want summer or winter?

For every action there is a reaction. Everything has a counterpart. The univers began and supprise - it will end at some point.

[/quote]
Actually that is exactly the point, by going to the doctor/taking medicine you are prolonging your life which is fighting against death... Exact opposite of what you stated you would do.
[/quote]

Then the next claim you make should be that eating is to prolong life?

[/quote]
Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.[/quote]

Okay - then I guess eating cheese is out of the question - And garlic too.

[Caenis]

Question: What is the point of this conversation?

Everyone has different opinions on for why their choice is the best choice. If people don't agree that their choice is wrong then at the end of the day we're setting ourselves for conversations that go in circles...how is there any point in a conversation where people are equally convinced their choice is the right one?

We're arguing morals, and morals are SUBJECTIVE. In the eye of the beholder. At the end of the day. We all got our happily ever after, regardless of how it happened. We all made choices based on our values, priorities, and what we were willing to sacrifice for it. Some people thought Destroy was the best choice, others Synthesis or Control. I have stated in other threads that the game was set up so that there are NO wrong choices, no wrong endings, they all come out great in the game.

So what's the problem? What's the point of this discussion? Where do people hope to go with it? I for one would rather just have people understand my choices, just as I would rather understand other peoples choices without it becoming a nose flinging contest...

[savionen]

Caenis wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Caenis wrote...

Ok...so then why are you people f*** getting angry that in our choice we achieved something everyone was all happy with...and telling us our choice was worse than your choice because of what happened in YOUR HEADCANON?

Because you're violating all galatic life and  appeasing their enemies that slaughtered friends and family by the truckload. 

It's the ultimate insult to everyone who fought and died so Shep could make that decision. Far more than Reject could ever be.

YES but that's in YOUR HEAD. Apparantly Not everyone agrees that's a violation...SO deal with it.

You know, EDI and the Geth say that they would fight to the death as long as the Reapers are gone is not headcanon, and even if you don't feel it's violating life the Reapers still live. They've already killed millions of humans and other races. They've killed trillions upon trillions over time.

Modifié par savionen, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[Malditor]

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.

Okay - then I guess eating cheese is out of the question - And garlic too.

Apparently you have run out of even semi-logical responses. No point in further discussion.

[savionen]

Malditor wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.

Okay - then I guess eating cheese is out of the question - And garlic too.

Apparently you have run out of even semi-logical responses. No point in further discussion.

I think the point was that eatting healthier foods will prolong your life, and eatting some foods is self destructive.

Side-note it doesn't say anywhere that synthesis prolongs life, does it? If anything you'd be getting computer viruses as well as physical viruses.

Modifié par savionen, 03 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .

[Shadowvalker]

Caenis wrote...

Question: What is the point of this conversation?

Everyone has different opinions on for why their choice is the best choice. If people don't agree that their choice is wrong then at the end of the day we're setting ourselves for conversations that go in circles...how is there any point in a conversation where people are equally convinced their choice is the right one?

We're arguing morals, and morals are SUBJECTIVE. In the eye of the beholder. At the end of the day. We all got our happily ever after, regardless of how it happened. We all made choices based on our values, priorities, and what we were willing to sacrifice for it. Some people thought Destroy was the best choice, others Synthesis or Control. I have stated in other threads that the game was set up so that there are NO wrong choices, no wrong endings, they all come out great in the game.

So what's the problem? What's the point of this discussion? Where do people hope to go with it? I for one would rather just have people understand my choices, just as I would rather understand other peoples choices without it becoming a nose flinging contest...

Personally it is to see how much pressure my tubocharged pacemaker can handle.... Smiles....

[PanzerGr3nadier]

@OP

Because its immoral and Reapers win

[Malditor]

savionen wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.

Okay - then I guess eating cheese is out of the question - And garlic too.

Apparently you have run out of even semi-logical responses. No point in further discussion.

I think the point was that eatting healthier foods will prolong your life, and eatting some foods is self destructive.

If done to specifically prolong life that it is against  his previous statement that you should not try to do that and just accept death as it comes. So the statement works against him if that's the case.

[Shadowvalker]

Malditor wrote...

savionen wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.

Okay - then I guess eating cheese is out of the question - And garlic too.

Apparently you have run out of even semi-logical responses. No point in further discussion.

I think the point was that eatting healthier foods will prolong your life, and eatting some foods is self destructive.

If done to specifically prolong life that it is against  his previous statement that you should not try to do that and just accept death as it comes. So the statement works against him if that's the case.

I do not agree. I see a different in:

Eating a pill or having a doctor fixing a broken arm to having machines installed in body. That's all...

[Malditor]

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

savionen wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.

Okay - then I guess eating cheese is out of the question - And garlic too.

Apparently you have run out of even semi-logical responses. No point in further discussion.

I think the point was that eatting healthier foods will prolong your life, and eatting some foods is self destructive.

If done to specifically prolong life that it is against  his previous statement that you should not try to do that and just accept death as it comes. So the statement works against him if that's the case.

I do not agree. I see a different in:

Eating a pill or having a doctor fixing a broken arm to having machines installed in body. That's all...

That was not your original argument/statement in this discussion.

[Caenis]

Shadowvalker wrote...

Caenis wrote...

Question: What is the point of this conversation?

Everyone has different opinions on for why their choice is the best choice. If people don't agree that their choice is wrong then at the end of the day we're setting ourselves for conversations that go in circles...how is there any point in a conversation where people are equally convinced their choice is the right one?

We're arguing morals, and morals are SUBJECTIVE. In the eye of the beholder. At the end of the day. We all got our happily ever after, regardless of how it happened. We all made choices based on our values, priorities, and what we were willing to sacrifice for it. Some people thought Destroy was the best choice, others Synthesis or Control. I have stated in other threads that the game was set up so that there are NO wrong choices, no wrong endings, they all come out great in the game.

So what's the problem? What's the point of this discussion? Where do people hope to go with it? I for one would rather just have people understand my choices, just as I would rather understand other peoples choices without it becoming a nose flinging contest...

Personally it is to see how much pressure my tubocharged pacemaker can handle.... Smiles....

*Chuckles* IF only I knew what a turbocharged pacemaker was 

[Ryzaki]

Actually there's something similar in Deus Ex : Human Revolution (which...did pretty much everything better than ME3. Seriously). Adam needs to be patched up...the only parts of him that need actual removal and replacement are his...chest and one of his arms I believe. His boss decides to replace pretty much all of him. I found that EXTREMELY immoral and a massive violation and was pissed that Jensen couldn't call him out on it.

[Armannen]

It is the ultimate form of giving in to the Reapers, evolve along paths former space cthulhus approve of. Also, i really think it's disturbingly unbalanced. Destroy has a high cost and uncertainty, control is risky at best, refusal is losing (in every way except morally perhaps) but synthesis? Everyone is happy and the galaxy is such a beautiful place and harmony etc. Like someone on these forums said, bioware outdisney'd Disney.

[Shadowvalker]

Caenis wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Caenis wrote...

Question: What is the point of this conversation?

Everyone has different opinions on for why their choice is the best choice. If people don't agree that their choice is wrong then at the end of the day we're setting ourselves for conversations that go in circles...how is there any point in a conversation where people are equally convinced their choice is the right one?

We're arguing morals, and morals are SUBJECTIVE. In the eye of the beholder. At the end of the day. We all got our happily ever after, regardless of how it happened. We all made choices based on our values, priorities, and what we were willing to sacrifice for it. Some people thought Destroy was the best choice, others Synthesis or Control. I have stated in other threads that the game was set up so that there are NO wrong choices, no wrong endings, they all come out great in the game.

So what's the problem? What's the point of this discussion? Where do people hope to go with it? I for one would rather just have people understand my choices, just as I would rather understand other peoples choices without it becoming a nose flinging contest...

Personally it is to see how much pressure my tubocharged pacemaker can handle.... Smiles....

*Chuckles* IF only I knew what a turbocharged pacemaker was 

Smiles...

Try Synthesis......:innocent:

[legion999]

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually there's something similar in Deus Ex : Human Revolution (which...did pretty much everything better than ME3. Seriously). Adam needs to be patched up...the only parts of him that need actual removal and replacement are his...chest and one of his arms I believe. His boss decides to replace pretty much all of him. I found that EXTREMELY immoral and a massive violation and was pissed that Jensen couldn't call him out on it.

What makes Deus Ex:HR different is the fact that the endings actually fit within it.

[Ryzaki]

legion999 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Actually there's something similar in Deus Ex : Human Revolution (which...did pretty much everything better than ME3. Seriously). Adam needs to be patched up...the only parts of him that need actual removal and replacement are his...chest and one of his arms I believe. His boss decides to replace pretty much all of him. I found that EXTREMELY immoral and a massive violation and was pissed that Jensen couldn't call him out on it.

What makes Deus Ex:HR different is the fact that the endings actually fit within it.

Yeah the endings don't throw the themes of the game completely out of the window and make you go WTF at a last minute random bad guy (Everyone in the last level is known beforehand).

[Shadowvalker]

Malditor wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

savionen wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Eating/drinking/breathing are necessities to live whereas doctor visits and medicine are not, they prolong live by curing/preventing illness. Not the same thing.

Okay - then I guess eating cheese is out of the question - And garlic too.

Apparently you have run out of even semi-logical responses. No point in further discussion.

I think the point was that eatting healthier foods will prolong your life, and eatting some foods is self destructive.

If done to specifically prolong life that it is against  his previous statement that you should not try to do that and just accept death as it comes. So the statement works against him if that's the case.

I do not agree. I see a different in:

Eating a pill or having a doctor fixing a broken arm to having machines installed in body. That's all...

That was not your original argument/statement in this discussion.

Crap! My statement:

Natural evolution. I'm born - I live - and I die.................................. I accept that as a fact!
Yes to being born
Yes to living
Yes to death

It is not that hard....